11/08/2013

Why are the people not with the Govt

The hacking threat by The Messiah is drawing mixed reactions in cyberspace. What is disturbing is that many are cheering The Messiah to follow up with his threat and to challenge the govt. In the past when such a thing happened, everyone would close rank with the govt and identify themselves as us against them. I am sure the supporters of The Messiah knew that it was not the right thing to do but still doing it. The govt may want to reflect on this.
 

This is a development that is not to be taken lightly. When the people are siding with an unknown source of threat, likely to be foreigners and feeling good about it is not good news. Some are calling these supporters of The Messiah traitors to the country. It is a sign that these people are not with the govt, could be against the govt, but not necessarily against the country in this particular case.
 

On the other hand some are accusing the govt for selling out the people and country. This is serious accusation definitely. Words like traitors are now being spoken quite frequently. Some are wearing the patriot badge on their faces.
I could briefly remember Amy Khor being called something like a traitor or betrayer or something like that in Parliament for speaking out against govt policies. Excuse me for not being able to remember exactly what were said. Think I am starting to feel the on set of dementia.
 

Traitors and betrayers are very strong terms indeed. Anyone committing such offence is going to be remembered in history books. How valid are these accusations?
During the Japanese invasion of China, many Chinese were accused of being traitors by their own people. But to many of those accused, they did not think so. They were simply businessmen doing business with the Japanese invaders, selling them food, cloth, silk, coal, raw materials and whatever that the Japanese army needed while they were invading China and killing the Chinese. It was business as usual. The more patriotic Chinese would not accept these nonsensical explanations. The food and materials were used by the Japanese army, cloth for uniform, silk for parachutes, etc etc.
 

In a war situation, enemies and friends are clearly defined. But in peace time, trading and doing businesses are the norms. And everyone is friend and good friends in business. In what ways can the govt be accused of being traitors and betraying the people, and be justified? Are these accusations valid or just wild charges without any basis? Bringing in more foreigners, taking away jobs from the people, giving away citizenships freely, are these good enough reasons?
 

These words should not be used freely as they have very serious implications and connotations. Everyone should be more restrained in their choice of words unless the facts and circumstances dictate the need to use such strong terms. Whoever that is being accused of being a traitor or betraying his country must be very frightened by such a label. They are definitely worse than being accused of corruption, incompetence, insincerity, dishonesty, xenophobic, racist, etc etc.
 

Whew!

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

Rb: // They are definitely worse than being accused of corruption, incompetence, insincerity, dishonesty, xenophobic, racist, etc etc. //


Rb, your arsenal and armoury of vocabulary of " mass condemnation " is getting even more lethal, awesome and feared than Saddam.Hussein alleged " weapon of mass destruction ".

Whew!

You are certainly a glowing example of old man's motto and maxim to adopt life long learning when he started learning comp at age 72, older than you are now.

Having said that, your ginger power is getting more awesome, hotter and tongue burning every single passing day.

Incidentally, according to 孙子, the ancient master of art of war, traitors are actually enemies long planted by their organisation infiltrating the entire structure from top to bottom. The highest form of "用间" tactic is planting an agent inside the highest office of the enemy. So potentially the minister of a subject could be their most bitter enemy in disguise. Such spy practically lived a double life and usually will go all the way till their missions accomplished. Without sounding paranoid, the person sitting next to oneself could potentially be one such planted agent. It happens everywhere, even in everyday commercial world. Sometimes you know but don't say and wonder whether the boss knows or is sleeping or is pretending not to know and up to even cleverer counter-espionage tactic to mislead, purposely feed the enemy with wrong info or setting a trap for the enemy to walk into.

Anonymous said...

The acid test of whether the people are with the Govt or not is during the GE lah, tio bo?

When majority 60% people voted for the ruling party in a GE, what more to show whether the people are with the Govt or not, you tell me lah?

Anonymous said...

But then the people are also not with the opposition what.

Or else how can the strongest opposition is not even ready to be govt, tio bo?



Anonymous said...

The Messiah is with the opposition.

Because both the Messiah and the opposition are fighting the govt, although in different ways lah.

But what really matters is when the opposition, and not Messiah, win.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Anon 9:28, your description of those planted to work with the enemies are not traitors but spies. Traitors are also known as 卖国贼,not sure if I get the Chinese characters right, ie selling the country to the enemies.

Veritas said...

Right now we need to ask ourselves who and what did we actually betray? Did we betray the Singapore we owned or we are against the Singapore own by elite s and foreigners. Did we betray Singapore or did PAP betray us by making us Dalits?

Singapore is a rich country. Does the wealth belongs to us or does the wealth belongs to the Lee family? Did PAP feed us, or did we feed the PAP by paying exhorbitant amount of tax and junk fee?

In USA War of Independence, Washington, Adams and Jefferson seek help from French to betray British. Are they traitors?

These are hard questions.

patriot said...

Traitors and betrayors might also have succeeded to turn themselves
into rulers as proven throughout
history. Such that I have to say that
it is not as despicable or dishonourable as Redbean had put
it.
Dare I say many Sinkies even revere
some Chinese and Indian who worked
for the Japanese Imperial Army.

patriot

Anonymous said...

Do you think the govt is willingly to listen. If they did (on immigration, housing,healthcare,transport etc..) then the current netizens support for the hacking will differ.
IMHO, while most netizens are cheering the hacking, I believe they are also silently against it but their unhappiness over govt policies got the better of them.

Veritas said...

I have some experience with IDA guys during my days in MOE. In my opinion, they are bunch of shit. I use to write against IDA in some online comments. In the earlier days, there are people out there, who will insult your comments. They will say something like

- You think you are more clever than the scholars of IDA

- if you are clever you will be rich

- You must be a loser in life

.................


My experience with IDA is very negative especially I see some classmate of mine who are stupid make it there.

I get the impression IDA can only talk talk talk.....etc. When nothing happen, they swagger and told everyone to shut up. Now fire fire fire...etc

Anonymous said...

Rb 9.48am : // Anon 9:28, your description of those planted to work with the enemies are not traitors but spies. Traitors are also known as 卖国贼,not sure if I get the Chinese characters right, ie selling the country to the enemies. //

Rb, from your thinking, I know one reason why you don't intend to join politics is bcos you are too "honest" and "老实" which is not a bad thing in the end.

Spies and traitors are separated by an almost invisibly thin line.

Since ancient civilisations, by a simple logic of flow chart, traitors are mostly spies planted by the enemy.

One simple example.

"A" was actually a spy planted by the enemy long, long ago. "A" grew up, got educated, sometimes even a scholarship, got PR status, citizenship etc etc. Got married, assimilated into the main stream. Accepted as one of their own men, women, cherries, apples, roti pratas, pudumayam, whatever you call them. Eventually, they are still what they are. When their true colours showed, their adopted country are too blinded to recognise and too proud to admit that these people are spies. So the adopted country would rather look at these people as traitors or 卖国贼. But from the angle and perspective of the enemy, all the while, these people are spies planted by them in the adopted country.

The ancient chinese said, : " 忠或奸"sometimes won't be known until the last moment or even until the fella already "入土".

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Allow me to add. A Japanese planted to spy in China is still a Japanese that is loyal to Japan.

A Chinese planted by the Japanese in the Chinese govt or society and spying for the Japanese is clearly a traitor plus a spy.

A Japanese spy inside China spying for Japan is unlikely to be called a traitor by the Japanese and not right to be called a traitor by the Chinese either. He could be called ungrateful for biting or betraying the people that treated him well and fed him.

patriot said...

Me will say that anyone, irrespective of ethnicity and nationality, who acts against the interest and wellbeing of the people at large, is a betrayor, is a traitor.

patriot

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

Redbean,

Fact is, that if we were living in less enlightened times like the Middle Ages, The People would have long already dragged these useless fucks from parliament, and executed them by the Singapore River.

Nowadays in the age of instant gratification, pundits are quite happy to do the cheering from the sidelines and have some entity/ organisation like The Messiah to do the required asskicking for them.

Singaporeans like to outsource.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

“Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under" said H L Mencken, one of the most scathing people skeptical of government and its bullshit authority.

In that respect, the people and the govern SHOULD NEVER be together. That is HEALTHY.

No government on earth -- past or present -- can be trusted to do anything. Sometimes, what they do is OK, and everything is fine. But when they cock things up, they'll never take responsibility and become more interested in protecting personal reputations than to actually fix the problems caused by government in the first place.

So next time a politician "complains" about the lack of trust, all you have to do in response is REMIND him/ her that trust has to be EARNED. What happens nest will indicate to you whether the politician in question is OK, or a lying sack of shit.

oldhorse42 said...

If one were to judge attendance at Hong Lim Park,one would inevitably conclude that there were more gays than unhappy people in Singapore.

So on what basis did RB conclude that the people are not with the Govt on hacking issue?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Oldhorse, I am trying to talk like a politician. Can? : )

Anonymous said...

"So on what basis did RB conclude that the people are not with the Govt on hacking issue?"
oldhorse42 1:30 pm

Online basis lah, of course.

But just like the huge opposition rallies during GE, not very reliable, tio bo?

Because PAP still win big in the GE despite the huge opposition rallies, tio bo?



Anonymous said...

If comments to blogs were votes in a GE, RB would have won hands down and become PM, online PM lah. LOL

Anonymous said...

Voting for the PAP does not always mean that those who do so are with the Government.

Many other factors are involved - threats of deprivation for voting opposition, using taxpayer's money to entice voters, digging up dirt on opposition candidates, fear mongering that affects kiasu and kiasi Sinkies in their voting patterns.

The acid test of how many percent of the population are really for the government can only be realised without all the above nonsense and without the GRCs and boundary redrawings.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

So RB is the online PM ya? : )

Anonymous said...

Yes confirm ONLINE PM CHUA :)))))))

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Actually I was PM for many years in many companies.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

'Dare I say many Sinkies even revere
some Chinese and Indian who worked
for the Japanese Imperial Army.'
patriot

Patriot, this one very cheem.

Anonymous said...

Rb, no worries. Nobody would go after you as if they would after an oppo leader if he declare ambition to be real PM and form next govt. Say no publicly but desire it in his heart already kena wacked over small trivial issues such as toilet cleaning issues.

PM can mean many things. Readers are aware u were (P)roject (M)anager of some steel bird flying in the sky in the 70s/ 80s?

Actually it always puzzle me for a graduate in political science with Bachelor of Arts degree to be PM in hardcore engineering line?

Anonymous said...

Rb 2.02pm : // 'Dare I say many Sinkies even revere
some Chinese and Indian who worked
for the Japanese Imperial Army.'

patriot

Patriot, this one very cheem. //



Rb, u are an oldie.

Acting blur right?

How can u not know when gen x and y know what PATRIOT is talking about .........

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

I damn blur lah. Also dunno how come from science stream ended up with social science and arts degree : )

Anonymous said...

Rb, u just earned another online title and accolade: online "blur king".

Next time try not call u lau hero liao :)

Shall address u by yr new title.

Ahem!

Dear Blogosphere PM Chua,

If u so blur as u claim, how come yr children so smart?

If u so blur as u claim, how come your blog so popular?

If u so blur as u claim, how come u can churn out so many quality, entertaining and provocative articles on a regular basis?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Maybe I blur blur but said the right thing. Life is full of funny surprises.

Anonymous said...

Blogosphere P(ea) a(M) Chua:
// Maybe I blur blur but said the right thing. Life is full of funny surprises. //


Gong Gong Jiak Ti Kong?

Anonymous said...

Blogosphere Pea aMp Chua:
//Maybe I blur blur but said the right thing. Life is full of funny surprises//

Different occasion put on different cap ......

Is that what u mean?

Work, u put on yr remisier?

Blog, u put on yr talk the right thing cap?

Hobby, u put on yr photography cap?

Thirsty, u put on yr kopi cap?

Horny, u no need put on any cap?

Tiok Boh?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Only 5 caps. Wish I have 64 caps. Would be contented with 20 caps.

Anonymous said...

Ahem, PM Chua:

TGIF

So tonight u putting what cap?

I know curiosity kills the cat, so be it.

Better if kills the wolves too!

So SinkieLand won't have so many victimized cleaned up Sheep.

Then more people can be with the garment. Even wrap around their bodies 24/7. Eat together. Sleep together. Like their own shadow. 寸步不离!

Anonymous said...

Remisier Chua: //Only 5 caps. Wish I have 64 caps. Would be contented with 20 caps.//

Since now u working, would u mind if put on your financial cap?

patriot said...

Mr Redbean;

patriot not cheem lah.
patriot got learnt from blogs.
Many many talking about the
History of Sin, about her majesty,
About Japanese and their atrocities.
About locals working with the Japanese .

Hearsay hearsay lah, my Late Father
also said.
My late mother oso worked under the Japanese as cleaner. According to her, the Japanese paid her with lots of banana notes. More than taoists offer to deities, but, they useless lah. It was a Japanese Scam; i think lah.
Blogs very good, nogo school oso can learn many many things.

patriot

b said...

Politicians are there to screw the people. Some screwed more than others. It is normal for people not to trust the politicians but during election times, it is business as usual. The trusting relationship seems to emerge overnight and the people happily performed their voting obligation.

Anonymous said...

4.27pm / The trusting relationship seems to emerge overnight and the people happily performed their voting obligation. /


Trusting my foot!

Who sold out who?

This place is built with every sinkie's blood, sweat, hard pain. Even all the generals are so capable, why still need the troops?

Trust gone long ago!

Already eaten by the wolves, stray dogs and pappigs!

Anonymous said...

* heart pain ........ typo

Anonymous said...

* If all the generals so capable

Anonymous said...

Some people must remember when they practise " u die your business attitude", they should have known when the turn comes to them.

Anonymous said...

@ Patriot 11.08am: // Me will say that anyone, irrespective of ethnicity and nationality, who acts against the interest and wellbeing of the people at large, is a betrayor, is a traitor. //


Anyone who sell out own kind is a traitor including bloggers.

Historically, anyone in the midst can be traitor.

They make a lot of noises but usually live quite well.

Anonymous said...

"Anyone who sell out own kind is a traitor including bloggers."
November 08, 2013 7:05 pm


What own kind are you talking about?
- white pigs?
- millionaire ministers?
- daft Sinkies?

Anonymous said...

"u die your business" political philosophy and other hard "truths"

Fight your own wars
- don't drag Singaporeans into your cyberwar
- subsidy mentality
- Singaporeans owe you a living is it?
- You got do any national service for Singaporeans or not

Anonymous said...

Wa lau, why here all talk anglish, ang mo beat too much, piak ga tau kia pai.

Anonymous said...

Who says Sinkies are not with the Government?
They had been with PAP for 50 years like parasite and host. There is no reason for them to part ways.
Sinkies and Pappies are perfect match. Till death will they part.