Chuan
Jin said CPF is your money. Matilah Singapura, one of my loudmouth extremely
opinionated fans in mysingaporenews disagreed, and for many years had been
scolding everyone for thinking or believing that the CPF money is their money
and not a tax. So, who is right, the minister or Matilah Singapura?
If
I believe in authority, I must agree that a minister must be right. How can a
minister be wrong or be telling lies? And I must naturally disagree with an
opinionated foul mouth blogger that he is wrong. A blogger simply has no
credibility when put beside a minister.
Another
way of deciding who is right is to draw up a list of criteria to give one an
objective way of comparison. When the money is your money, the criteria to
support such a conclusion are very straight forward. You can take the money
anytime you like and put it into your pocket. You can buy anything you like,
anytime you like without having to ask anyone for permission. Another simple test,
you can hold the money in your hand to touch and enjoy the smell of money. This
is definitely different from looking at a piece of paper saying you have so
much money but cannot touch or see the money.
Let’s
look at the money in the CPF that Chuan Jin is your money.
Can
you take back your money anytime you like when you feel like it?
Can
you spend on anything you like at your fancy?
Or
can the person holding your money for safekeeping be allowed to spend your
money without your consent or even force you to spend your money because he
said so?
Can
the person keeping your money decide when and how much to return to you?
KNN,
looks like this foulmouth blogger called Matilah Singapura is right leh. The
money is not your money when you can’t spend it as you like. But is it a tax
like what Matilah Singapura called it? This one is a bit technical. Must ask a
legally trained professional to explain. But such professionals are likely to
say yes and no subject to this and that and you end up not knowing what they
are saying. And so far none of them want to say anything. Maybe no one ask them
or no one pays them to say something. Mahathir once said, fishing in Malaysia very easy. In Singapore, very difficult as the
fish would not open their mouths.
So,
is CPF your money?
Kopi Level - Green
19 comments:
RB If you and Matilah ever decided to tie the internet knot of marriage, Mr. Brown will have to up his ante
That's why must sue him until his pants drop.
Matilah is correct. CPF is one of the biggest deceptions in modern history. If I keep your money for you and never give it back, is it not tax. Some say can use CPF to pay for flat and for medical expenses. Your HDB flat doesn't belong to you, your monthly payments for the mortgage is plain and simple rent money. Medical expenses are paid to govt hospitals and you can only use a little bit of the $40k of medisave money. This deception, cheating scheme even Bernie Madoff cannot invent.
What is Madoff compare to our talented leaders. He maybe a schemer, but he did no have THE ABSOLUTE POWER OUR RULERS WIELD.
CPF savings are our monies that are been deposited with the Board as under a fixed deposit contract like between a Bank and its customer.
Drawn up by our first generation leaders including Dr Toh Chin Chye. Primary objective as retirement savings to be released ALL at aged 55.
No complicated categories of OAs/SAs/RAs or XXA aka minimum sum etc.
Now Bankers renegade of their part of contracts when the FDs had matured.
When Banks do not honoured in paying back the FD customers their monies when they are due, laymen will definitely have wild thoughts that something must have gone wrong with the institutions and you cannot blame them for thinking so as these are their blood and sweat monies.
So as rumors fly, a run of the Bank or Banks is expected.
So they cannot blamed anyone for saying that this is happening to the CPF Board as can happen to any Bank.
So how can they sue just for this saying that this might be the scenario.
The Banks can then assured the customers that this is not the case and will try explain the situation to them.
So how can the Banks sue their customers just because they want their monies back ???
SAME SCENARIO APPLY TO THE ROY"S CASE
Is CPF my money?
Is LKY my father?
Is PAP on our side?
I'm voting opposition to help me answer these questions.
Because after 50 years.
I'm unlikely to get anymore answers from LKY.
And the team we paid him millions in salary to mentor has been tested and does not meet requirements.
Matilah and the Minister are both wrong lah. The CPF money is jinxed and in a black Ho_le.
@RB:
>> And I must naturally disagree with an opinionated foul mouth blogger that he is wrong.
Think and do as you please. I've always emphasized the possibility of me being wrong. Afterall, why should you trust the opinion of a regularly drunk and always horny PSLE beach bum of little or no import?
>> A blogger simply has no credibility when put beside a minister.
Exactly correct. You should always defer to authority, without question, without doubt. Singapore is built on the hearts and minds of obedient people. I applaud you for defending the status quo.
>> Must ask a legally trained professional to explain.
What for? He/ she is going to have to "invent" some kind of "logic" to make reality fit the explanation, instead of the other way around. Why ask an expensive professional when the same job can be done by just asking a kopitiam auntie or uncle? ...oh, I forgot, you like Appealing to Authority.
OK, just to clarify: In my opinion (not truth, not fact) CPF is a tax. It is also IMO, a sunk cost which means, LET IT GO, and get on with the rest of your life. Pick you battles in life -- one's that you have a good chance of WINNING. This one is a dead loss. You will only add to the already sunken cost by burning time, energy and resources best directed to other "projects" which will bring you REAL financial security and hopefully "happiness".
The rules and definitions of CPF are going to change. It is LEGAL and written into the Constitution. Once something is LAW, your like or dislike for it doesn't matter. The law also says that if you renounce your citizenship, you can claim ALL of "your" CPF. So IMO, the govt. is being FAIR -- which no doubt many of you will disagree. Go ahead, it doesn't matter -- law is law :-)
Got Rule Of Law?
"Your CPF $ earning competitive interest rate...". This statement is misleading. If one were to convert in foreign currency, say Australia $, and put it in any banks for either 5-year or 10-year term in Aust, the interest rate is well above 4%.
In addition, the interest one is earning could be made paypable twice a year. Isnt it a better deal than the CPF rate of 2.5%?
What do u think?
One may ask me if int $ received is subject to tax. Well, if you dont exceed certain amount, say, around $17k/year, no tax obligations.
CPF rate doesnt reflect the actual returns your CPF $ could generate...
SUNK COST: the amount of resources already spent or consumed in a "project" or situation. These are UNRECOVERABLE.
OPPORTUNITY COST: the amount of resources people spend in an attempt to try to recover or repair the situation where usually a large sunk costs have already been committed. The "cost" reflects the myriad alternative objectives they could choose to pursue, with a higher probability of "success" if only they chose not to pursue the recovery of sunk costs.
Other examples of SUNK COSTS in the Singapore context:
1. COE
2. ERP
3. GST
4. "Sin Taxes" on gambling, alcohol and tobacco
5. National Service including reservists' training (2 weeks per year for 30 years) -- total about 4 years.
Everyone in Singapore, and #5 every medically fit male in Singapore has to pay these costs. Like CPF,they are LAW and apply universally.
And everyone at some time or other complains about these sunk costs. But the world just moves on, as eventually do all the people who complain. Why spend OPPORTUNITY COST on chasing unrecoverable SUNK COST? It just doesn't make economic sense.
No one bothers to "reclaim" the 4 or so years they "sunk" into NS and NS reservists, or the $70+k COE "permission-to-own-a-vehicle" tax, or the $100 "entry fee" for locals at Marina Bay Sands Casino.
Just pay and forget it lah. Law is Law. It is "cheaper" to comply with the law than to get caught breaking it.
CPF is a sunk cost. Like the COE, pay it, get as much as you can from it (like buy HDB), and then just forget about it until you decide to renounce citizenship and fuck off to Vancouver or Perth...and end up paying more tax as a Canadian or Aussie citizen.
When it comes to making decisions based on economics, most human beings are epically BAD. They let their emotions cloud their already fucked-up, delusional judgement. I find this HILARIOUS
Is CPF is a form of tax.
Is National Service is a form of slavery?
Is PAP a form of fascism?
Yes.
Yes !
Yes !!
Again the govt is demanding that the people listen to their logic. It is high time the govt listens to the voters who put them in parliament.
@RB:
>> But is it a tax like what Matilah Singapura called it?
When you "buy" services or products from the govt, I call that a "fee". e.g. apply for passport, pay a fee.
If you contravene laws and get caught you pay a "fine". e.g. exceed speed limit or smoke in non-smoking area -- kena summon, then fine.
If you voluntarily engage in certain activities, you may be required to buy a license form the govt. e.g. sell liquor -- liquor license. Drive vehicle -- driving license. Consume liquor and drive vehicle -- cancel license and pay FINE :-)
Other voluntary activities you pay TAX. e.g. go shopping -- pay GST. Run a business -- corporate tax. Smoke. drink and gamble -- pay "sin" taxes. Get paid for work -- income tax. Pay a worker, a worker receives pay -- CPF contribution. Thus in my opinion CPF is a TAX. Working, like shopping, or smoking are voluntary, individually chosen activities. However the taxes you are required to pay are COMPULSORY.
Caveat: I am not a person of authority nor do I have a law degree. Thus my opinion is without doubt absolutely non-official and without the backing of "specialised knowledge". I can however, tell the difference, with 99.99% accuracy (nothing is 100% certain, so good statistical analysis must state "error bars") between a hole in the ground and my own anus.
You make up your own mind lah. Use whatever methods and logic you see fit. To me, it makes sweet fuck-all difference. ;-)
Is LKY the Father of Singapore?
Is Mrs LKY the Mother of Singapore?
Is LHL the Son Of Singapore?
Do Singaporeans owe them a living?
Do Singaporeans owe them our votes?
Do Singaporeans owe them a gun carriage funeral?
Is PAP really on our side?
CPF is like you buy a piece of gold for security. It is yours. Let evaluate the following :
Can you take back your money anytime you like when you feel like it? (no, need to find a buyer)
Can you spend on anything you like at your fancy? (no, need to convert to cash first)
Or can the person holding your gold for safekeeping be allowed to spend your gold without your consent or even force you to spend your money because he said so? (no unless he steals it)
Can the person keeping your gold decide when and how much to return to you? (no unless he steals it)
The only way when the gold is not yours is when there is thief. That is criminal offence.
"Like the COE, pay it, get as much as you can from it (like buy HDB), and then just forget about it until you decide to renounce citizenship and fuck off to Vancouver or Perth...and end up paying more tax as a Canadian or Aussie citizen."
- not if you are middle or low income. high income can stay here and let their sons go to ns and protect the country aka their assets.
@b: re: emigration
>> - not if you are middle or low income.
If you are low income/ low net worth, your options are limited for just about everything in life - and thus are out of the discussions which presume a certain level of economic status. I mean, if you don't have the skills to compete in Singapore, you have no business emigrating because you would not be able to compete anyway.
Income/ net worth is highly correlated with MARKETABLE skills, intelligence and attitude. So the lower the above attributes, the lower the options in life, and also the lower the life expectancy, and level of health.
So let's take those on middle income: consider a working couple, with HDB. All they have to do is to sell their HDB, pocket the profit, renounce Singapore citizenship and collect CPF. Other assets, if they have, can also be liquidated. Even using very conservative estimates, the couple should have little problem raising several hundred thousand very strong Singapore Dollars -- which will give them an excellent start in most of the favoured "emigration destinations".
>>809
Ok, how much is your fees as a migration agent? Btw, many great people in this world came from poor families.
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