5/14/2014

How much is CPF collecting from the workforce

The current CPF contribution rate is 16% from employer and 20% from the employee making a total of 36% of the monthly income. Using an average salary of $3,000 and 2 million employees (for simplicity in calculation) contributing to the CPF, just ball park, the monthly contributions work out to be (36% x 3000 x 2m) $2.16b or $25.92b a year. Now that is an awfully big sum of money going into the CPF.

To those who are prudent and responsible, this is not simply a lot of money to play with but a lot to money to return with interest. They will be very careful not to touch this money but to manage it with extreme care while under their safe keeping. It is other people’s money, the CPF members’ money that must be returned.

But if you have a bunch of crooks, like in a rogue govt, they will be easily tempted to spend it, to act clever, to think of getting bigger returns without knowing that the bigger the returns the higher the risk of losing it. Some will capriciously be thinking of behaving like rich men and go flashing the money to everyone and even wanting to flaunt the wealth by throwing some around. It is such a nice feeling to have so much money to play with. And if not enough, no worry, the tap is flowing and every month there will be another $2b flowing in, unlimited supply of money.

It is so easy to go shopping or to act like philanthropists and give whenever someone comes asking. It is really a very nice feeling, spending OPM. Spend first, don’t worry about tomorrow and how to pay back. This is the risk of this country when there is so much money freely available and the high living low thinking will just do that, help themselves to live well. Who cares what comes tomorrow. Tomorrow is someone else’s problem. It is OPM!

Any govt in power has to be very careful to guard against rogues who think of nothing about spending such easy money. It is so easy to spend, so easy to give away. But don’t forget, the time to pay back will come and will come sooner than they think. Singapore really has a very happy problem with money. No wonder everyone is feeling so rich, pay and pay, give and give. Who needs money, come, come to Sin City. Just ask and will be given.

Ultimately where does the money come from? Ultimately whose money ended up given away? The CPF is the people’s money and must be returned. Not returning is not an option, not under any pretence or any funny schemes. You can’t cheat an honest man.

PS. Actually you can cheat an honest man in Sin City when an honest man is a daft Sinkie.


Kopi Level - Yellow

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

CPF money is people's money, the money earned through blood, sweat & tear by Singaporean. It is put into the CPF accounts and is entrusted to the government to take good care of it and to be withdrawn as originally promised when members reaching the age of 55 years old.

It is a trust account, belonging to CPF members and legally, government as trustee must ensure that they cannot make use of the money as and when they like for whatever reasons, and prior approval must be sought from CPF members if government wants to do anything with the money.

Unfortunately, it appears that the government owns all the money in the CPF accounts, otherwise why do they have every right to dictate what they can do with the money.

Singaporean is very helpless and there is nothing they can do to reverse this.

Anonymous said...

It is a lot of money, that is why they have to try, by any means possible and with accelerating tempo, to keep as much of our retirement money as possible, and for as long as possible.

There is no way of turning back the wheel when so much money is now tied to properties, held back as MSS and medisave. In fact, there is no way back even if the Government is changed. How could a different Government go about reversing it? Returning the MSS will cause the giant ponzi pyramid to collapse.

We dug the black hole ourselves by choosing the same Government election after election, giving them unfettered authority to do as they please, and in the process they have done us in. We really have no cause to complain.

Anonymous said...

@ redbean….“The CPF is the people’s money and must be returned. Not returning is not an option, not under any pretence or any funny schemes.” This statement is not entirely true. Allow me to elaborate on it further. Singapore has scored triple “As” by international financial rating agencies because of it’s strong reserves from budget surpluses coupled with strong forced savings from the citizens through the mandatory CPF scheme. Singapore has got close to zero foreign debts unlike some bankrupted countries in the EU. However, in terms of debt to GDP ratio Singapore ranked #9 in the world in 2011 with a debt as a percentage of GDP at 102.4% whereas a bankrupted country like Greece scored 144%. Unlike Greece which borrowed heavily from World Bank/IMF, Singapore does not borrow from abroad and almost all of it’s debts are domestic debts, meaning money owed to it’s citizens primarily in CPF and local financial institutions. Money in CPF are vested in non-tradable government bonds through MAS (MOF) which in turn funnel the money to the Singapore GIC and Temasek Holdings for “investment” globally. How and in what forms our reserves are invested and the returns thereof, positive or negative, are never clearly explained. It is shrouded in opacity. The investments are mostly in illiquid assets abroad and hence the cash strapped situation faced by CPF in meeting withdrawal demands from a fast ageing population reaching draw down age. Little wonder the incessant increase in the minimum sum now set at $155K w.e.f. 1st July 2014 and the simultaneous increase in Medisave a/c to $43.5K and who knows the sky is the limit. Let me debunk your statement that people’s money must be returned and not returning is not an option under any pretence. I am no financial wizard but from what I gathered from talks in public spaces this is my hypothesis.
(1) To hold on to the people’s money by increasing the minimum sum is to slow down the cash drain from CPF in the way and minimum sum and the Medisave sum are increased compulsorily.
(2) To extend the withdrawal age have the same effect too.
(3) Recently on the enhanced nomination scheme introduced insidiously and unannounced in 2011 whereby beneficiaries of the deceased CPF account holders can unwittingly have what they bequeathed locked up indefinitely in their minimum sum and Medisave a/c to reduce draw down.
(4) To top up the dwindling cash flow in CPF consequent of the people’s money tied up in illiquid investments worldwide, flushing the nation with new immigrants by the millions is another way out. Working PRs and new citizens by the mindless numbers needed to contribute 36% to CPF (16% employer and 20% employee). In a way, new money to pay old money of the draw down from the pioneer generation.
(5) The coup de grace with which to reduce the government domestic debts is to astronomically increase the price of housing, both public (HDB) and private (exorbitant land sale price and duties & levies on developers). Almost all working class people buy their homes with huge CPF O/A outlay. It is the most effective means of reducing public debts and immediately the hefty purchase price goes from the purchaser’s CPF account into the government’s coffer reducing debt. Today HDB almost always refuse mortgage financing and the HDB buyer will have to arrange for their mortgage loans with a commercial bank. HDB wants hard cash paid upfront and if anything untoward happen to the property market, it’s between the buyers and his bankers. HDB washes it’s hands clean of the problem.
(6) This is a government that privatize profits and socialize risks. Singapore has among the highest household borrowing relative to gross domestic product (GDP) in Asia at 77% and home loans account for around three quarters of household debt and have been growing rapidly amid a booming property market as reported by CNBC. Domestic debt is therefore transferred to the citizens.
@ redbean, don’t you think the above make sense? Feel free to comment.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

You have summed up everything that has been going on with everyone in the know keeping very quiet about it.

There are so many ways to cut down the people's savings and still they are having difficulties repaying them and needing more and more schemes.

This will tell you how desperate and dire is the situation. Those 'clever' people who think they are Warren Buffetts are now looking very stupid. And some are still boasting how good they are or were when the obvious is there for all to see.

It is a deep bottomless pit that they are unable to fill. Wait for the day the truth is revealed.

Anonymous said...

This CPF issue will be a perenial talking point for years and years, because it ultimately involves everybody, working or not, what with money from edusave going into it and now the Enhanced Nomination Scheme adding to the furore.

But expecting the Government to do the asking, like returning most of the Minimum Sum, is, honestly, hoping against hope.

If I may say so, CPF is now just like money belonging to the Government to do what it pleases, without having to justify itself. That is how big a black hole we have dug ourselves into.


Anonymous said...

What would the MPs be asking in Parliament about the CPF? Think they will not ask anything as everything is fine. No issue.

The people very happy with their minimum sums going higher and higher and they can smile and smile seeing their CPF savings growing and growing.

b said...

Government everywhere is raiding people pension or provident fund. Perhaps all the monies are being used to buy those useless jets and weapons. No need to be a genius to be able to guess who is the biggest benefactor of those funds. These countries are being held hostage by one big bully. If only they know how to work together, but it is easier said than done. Self interest is deeply ingrained.

Anonymous said...

Singaporeans should be very very grateful. Our PAP government is looking out for us and increasing the minimum sums is one good way to protect us from desperate situation in our old age. Hi RB, please stop stirring up emotion. No one believe whatever you say. Most Singaporeans are in agreement with this increase in the minimum sums. Those who come on this forum are losers and not happy whatever our government comes up with. You write with such cunning and manipulative style and most who read your articles are either stupid or gullible. So sorry for them. Where else in the market can you get 4% interest with your saving? Be grateful that the PAP government is paying high interest on our CPF savings.

Matilah_Singapura said...

"How much money is CPF collecting?"

Are you fucking kidding me? CPF is the best damn ponzi scheme in the entire human historical record. What's more it's legal and is the biggest publicly funded financial institution in the land.

CPF help build modern Singapore. CPF is a large institutional player in the investment space.

The employer-employee TOTAL of CPF "contributions" is over ONE THIRD of what that worker could potentially earn if there was no CPF. CPF "tax" on workers is almost TWICE the company tax rate.

Like I said, damn good scam/ scheme. This is social and financial engineering of the highest caliber. Must hormat lah ;-)

Thank you, Sheeple of Singapore, for your contribution!

P.S. Remember the "test" true ownership: if you own something, you have total control on its use -- including and ESPECIALLY its destruction.

If you cannot take out all your money, from an account with your name on it, and spend it ALL -- every last cent -- on hookers and booze, or worst still, give it all to RELIGION... if you can't do that...then you don't truly OWN it.

Anonymous said...

Hi Anon 5:26.

Thank you for joining us as losers here. I am very sure you will not go away although you will say you will and will not be here again.

You cunning ass. I beg you will plant yourself here 24/7 and pretend that you are not here but enjoy every bit RB wrote.

And I repeat this to you. Only losers like you are here. Are you still here?

Oh, we believe in what RB said. Who are you talking about when you said 'most Singaporeans'? Dont speak thru your arse ok? And don't go away loser!

Anonymous said...

Arsehole 5:26 is a PAP Member who must have benefitted greatly with the Cobnection/guangxi.

Anyway, Rb does not require anyone to agree with him, so accusing him of stirring is quite arrogant and offensive. But then hor, all PAP People are wellknown for been arrogant.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5.26 speaks for himself as one of the losers, either stupid or gullible, because he is also reading RB's article.

Keep up the good work and don't forget to report to your master.

Anonymous said...

This is 5.26

Whatever you losers say to me, I can take it. I am here and I like it here. CPF is a good way for Singaporeans to save for the future. I am satisfied with 4%. To all those who think that life in Singapore is not good, you have all have the freedom to choose, leave Singapore or stay and vote for a change in government. The choice is yours. I made mine, I am staying and I am going to enjoy every minute of my time here in Singapore.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5.26

Of course we have all the freedon to choose and not for you to dictate what is good for us here or whether we believe or not in what RB is writing on this forum.

Whether you like it here or not is also non of our concern. There is no need to tell us that you worship the PAP.

And who the fuck do you think you are to label those who visited this blog as losers, either stupid or gullible?

Anonymous said...

RB, you have a shameless IB here attacking you personally. I know you won't fark him but let me fuck him for you.

Anon 5:26, you slimy, shitty and shameless asshole, you got no balls to use your real name but hide under anonymity to launch personal attacks at RB.

I say to you again, fuck you. Be a man and use your real name when you attack RB personally. Then maybe I may give you some respect. Dare to attack people dare not own up, what a useless prick. Hide, hide, hide.

Matilah Singapura, this one your friend is it?

Anonymous said...

Hey 10.41, where is your real name? Why are you Anonymous too? Scared that you might be marked and identified as one who speaks out against the government? Coward.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon May 14, 2014 5:26pm
Your generalization that our CPF savings command an interest rate of 4% is way off the mark. It will serve you well to get the facts right before regurgitating half truths.
Log on to the CPF website and you will see that the 4% interest rate applies to all accounts, Special & Medisave Accounts with a cap of up to only $60,000 and with up to $20,000 from the Ordinary Account (OA) should the Special & Medisave Accounts fail to meet the cap of $60,000, the additional interest received on the $20,000 or less on the OA going to the member’s Special Account (SA) or Retirement Account (RA) untouchable in totality except for the dribs and drabs at the fancy of the establishment.
All balances in excess of the combined $60,000 will earn an interest of only 2.5% p.a. You have intentionally overstated the generosity of this government.
Compare with our neighbour up north, the Malaysian Employees Provident Fund (MEPF), the world’s sixth largest pension pool, it earns a dividend of 6.35% last year without the encumbrances of our CPF.
Please speak for yourself for you do not represent most Singaporeans judging from the brickbats you have received in this forum.
We are not going to leave for doing so would be defeatist. We will stay put to right the wrong. Many political ignoramus are fast coming to realization for being hoodwinked. Change is definitely on the horizon.
RB is exactly correct in stating that “it is a bottomless pit that they are unable to fill. Wait for the day the truth is revealed.”
It is an agonizing wait and the sooner the day of reckoning the better it is for the nation for we cannot allow this malignant condition to metastasize beyond salvation.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi IB 5:26, welcome to the blog. Let me first apologise to you for the boorish remarks of my friends here and for fucking you even though I agree with them.

You see, we are losers and our thinking are simple and straight to the point. We don't use big words like cunning and manipulative that only certain type of people are good at.

Down here if they don't agree with you or when they know you are up to no good, they simply fuck you.

But please do not be offended and do not go away. Please visit us, we are losers and we need a few successful people like you who know what is cunning and manipulative so that we can learn from you.

Please stay, you are welcome, unless you think you are too elitist and do not want our company.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Anon 2:54, actually I want to just say one thing to you, 'Can you transfer all your savings into my account and every month I will tell you how rich you are without bothering to return to you?'

Since you wrote so long, I will do the courtesy to write a bit. First, what is the point of the country getting 3A ratings using the people's savings and refusing to return the money to the people? It is good?

The illiquid stuff is no excuse. These are highly paid people, supposed to be very clever and they better know when they need to pay back to the people when they reach 55. You mean they are idiots and cannot see what is coming when it is just a matter of the calendar?

Are saying that it is alright for a govt or any Madoff, to take away the people's savings and then say, I mismanaged and I cannot repay. Don't blame me. Just let me have your money for as long as I want?

Anonymous said...

Hi RB. Thanks for the reciprocity.

The gist of my text resonates with sentiments expressed here and elsewhere online and off-line.

I did not mean to extol the triple “A” ratings, it was put forward to evoke the thinking caps of people interested in the deplorable state of affairs we are in today.

If you read further down on my six points you will realize that we citizens have been had.

While the power that be earned the triple “A” ratings, the citizens bore the brunt of their mismanagement with the passing of the national domestic debts to the household debts.

This is when our CPF OAs are emptied out paying for an over-priced roof over our heads, both public and private with the excess to be loaned.

There is no intrinsic value in a 99-years leasehold pigeon hole in the sky vis a vis the price and should our fragile economy tank we, the citizens will be left hanging.

I am not advocating that it is OK for the government to take away our savings, saying “oh we screwed it up and we cannot return you, your money”.

What I was trying to drive at was, they really do not need to pay us back in the sense that when they price land and properties out of this world, they literally sucked off all of our savings in the OA leaving us with little to retire on.

CPF balances are debts to them, hollowing out our CPF balances in over priced housing reduces that debt.

These people are no Warren Buffetts or Madoffs. Warren Buffett & Madoff are managers of their own money being substantial shareholders.

We have here people managing other peoples’ money, our money and you think they give two hoots about winning or losing.

Look at Shincorp, ABC Learning and a whole slew of mismanagement.

Was anyone taken to task? Hell no!

My response to IB 5:26 in Anon 10:53pm lays clear my position. A 4% interest payout is limited to only $60,000, mostly held in untouchable RAs and Medisave, the rest only 2.5%, not even enough to cover an annualized inflation rate 4.5% whereas the Malaysian Employees Provident Fund up north pays a respectable 6.35%.

These are issues we should be talking about.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Anon 10:28, fully agree with your points. Yes we have been had. Unfortunately many Sinkies still could not see that. And many even resigned to lose their CPF money and let the govt do as it pleases.

The CPF savings are badly mismanaged in the sense that they failed to manage the cashflow and liquidity issues. Anyhow ploughed the money into illiquid assets and got stuck.

Actually it is more than that. Likely to be incurring huge losses and unable to unwind and cut losses as it will reflect on the balance sheet and bottom line. So they are now long long term investmennts and hoping for the salted fish to come alive.

Matilah_Singapura said...

@1041:

>> Matilah Singapura, this one your friend is it?

Not that it is any of your business or if it is even RELEVANT to the discussion, but no.

Anyway, you cunts have got to learn some deep breathing, and get out in the sun sometimes. The way you fly off the handle just because takes the opposite position to you is stuff immature and emotionally-fucked up people do.

Please lah, have more sex or something. You guys are too uptight.

Anonymous said...

As usual! But ?????????