7/16/2019

Software engineers - Cheap is unlikely to be good

Software used in 737 Max crashes linked to Indian software company

Through an investigative journalism work, Bloomberg published an article today (‘Boeing’s 737 Max Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers‘, 29 Jun) establishing that the Boeing’s 737 Max software had been outsourced to Indian software engineers working for only US$9 an hour in India, compared with US$35 to $40 for those in the U.S. on H1B visa or more for a full-time US software engineer.

Bloomberg also found that Boeing’s subcontractors and suppliers were also outsourcing software work to India, in order to keep the cost down and to maximize profits.

Longtime Boeing engineers whom Bloomberg spoke to, revealed that the problematic Max software which was plagued by issues, was developed at a time Boeing was laying off experienced engineers and pressing suppliers to cut costs. Hence, there was a push to outsource work to lower-paid contractors. This led to the reliance on temporary workers making as little as US$9 an hour to develop and test software, often from countries lacking a deep background in aerospace – notably India.

Two Indian software companies were found by Bloomberg to be linked to the Max software development – HCL and Cyient (formerly known as Infotech)....

Above is posted in TOC.

Two points to make, if you want something to be cheap, don't expect quality or the quality of more expensive stuff. This does not mean that pay more gets more. We have seen and experienced in many areas when you pay more but get less or get shit.

Second point, maybe the Americans are trying to pass the buck to the Indians. So easy to put the blame on other people. Is this the case, are the Americans justified to blame the Indians?  They believe the Indians are very good in software, that is why they employed so many of them just like in Singapore. So how can they blame them. You employed them, shit or genius, you asked for it.

My personal experience has not been pleasant, everything they touched becomes unstable and unreliable. From working to half working.

Even if the Americans could prove that it was the Indian software that caused the crash, Boeing is going to pay for the bills and claims. The Americans would not trust the Chinese software engineers that developed Alibaba's supply chain and Alipay systems nor wechat or Baidu. If the users are stupid enough to pick lemons, why blame others?

In the same vein, if Singapore persistently want to bring in trash to work in this island, be prepared to live with trash and half baked systems.

39 comments:

Anonymous said...

Rb, as hv expected, its human nature to blame others but one cannot escape the responsibility of themselves making tat choice or decision. The Universal law of cause and effect is still applicable to the Boeing software incident, u make that choice of outsourcing to cheaper engineers u shud bear that consequences, they have learnt from it & it's a big price to pay when their products suffers on quality and reliability,the customers will think twice whether wanto buy their products next time.

Anonymous said...

@RB,

///In the same vein, if Singapore persistently want to bring in trash to work in this island, be prepared to live with trash and half baked systems.///

So far sinkie systems like ERP, IRAS, GST, HDB, CPF, MOH, DBS, OCBC, UOB, SP Services etc etc all performing very well & collecting plenty of money leh. All got many Trashes developing & maintaining & overhauling their systems.

Ok sometimes got some minor cockups like SingHealth --- but very minor lah ... so many people still going to them & still collecting so much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Anonymous said...

The real objective may not be to bring in trash to work in this island, but to re-balance the ethnic composition.

Anonymous said...

Why is our education system not producing the IT professionals that we need?

Nobody knows this or was it intentional or a conspiracy not to produce enough IT people?

Anonymous said...


RB...hahaha.......

You said...."In the same vein, if Singapore persistently want to bring in trash to work in this island, be prepared to live with trash and half baked systems".

BUT, the maases......69.9% like this!

What can you say?

Can only kpkb kpkb and kpkb! Right?

Anonymous said...

The 10.47pm anon, here u go again like parrot repeating the same old same. U need to seek treatment and go to jalan Besar where the USA sailors will sodomize u especially if u give free ass for them to sodomize u. After weeks and months at sea, these dudes are desperate for any holes. πŸ˜€

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ everyone

It is human nature to try to pass the blame onto someone or something else rather than accepting responsibility.

I posted this $9 per hr Indian engineer thing a few weeks ago. Yes, many people are equating "cheap with maybe less-than-good". This is mere speculation. This is people using "logic" rather than HARD EVIDENCE and DATA to find out what the real picture is.

I'll be unsurprised if this cock talk and finger pointing continues for a long time as evidence and data are gathered. Eventually, a more accurate picture will emerge and the lawyers will be be filing lawsuits against Boeing, and Boeing against their suppliers. All in all, it'll get more complicated and invite even more commentary...people will take sides....the usual shit lah, which provides excellent opportunities from direct and knock-on effects. πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»

Boeing is too big to fail. But their shares might be hammered some more, which is fucking great for the "buy cheap and hold forever" greedy opportunists. They have not one but several economic moats in their civilian AND military businesses. For example the have made one of the most secure smart phones. (Made in the USA, not China...definitely not by Huawei πŸ˜‚πŸ€£)

Anonymous said...

Hi 1147am

Thank you very very much!

Hahaha.......

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ WSG 906

>> So far sinkie systems like ERP, IRAS, GST, HDB, CPF, MOH, DBS, OCBC, UOB, SP Services etc etc all performing very well & collecting plenty of money leh. All got many Trashes developing & maintaining & overhauling their systems. <<

I am in constant amazement at the ability of a one political party government to generate so much positive cash flow and net revenue from such efficient and cost-effective systems. It is mind-boggling. No wonder Treasury has so much fucking money! πŸ˜‚

But wait...there's more. Starting next year, changes to the ERP tech is going to change the motorist game! The new IU (In-Vehicle Unit) will have GPS and that means your wallet will be hit the moment you touch a public road. It is a PAY TO USE system....the more you drive the more you pay. You drive OFF PEAK...YOU STILL PAY.

But there's more...if you make an illegal turn, or go down a road you are not supposed to...THE "INTELLIGENT" SYSTEM WILL FINE YOU STRAIGHT AWAY. I am unclear on whether you can compound the fine by challenging it...

So yah, more money is going to be squeezed from you. Akan datang. I am all in favour for this by the way...anything to keep the cuntry awesome gets my 100% APPROVAL!! πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ» Remember, the awesomeness of the whole Cuntry IS WAY MORE IMPORTANT than the desires of ENTITLTED people. A person is only around for a few decades. The cuntry, can last for years...thousands of years.

Anonymous said...

The master of that parrot at 10.47 must be told to teach this parrot to learn more things to say, rather than repeating the same old grandmother's story on every blog.

Anonymous said...

Watch 5G and AI application in China's busiest automated container terminals. No workers at all at the huge ports, all driverless vehicles!

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ 1227

Fantastic! I love it. No humans necessary....except to turn it on and off and do maintenance occasionally, which can itself be eventually done by robots.

Plus no "robot tax" in China! In the west, people like Bill Gates are in favour of a robots tax to pay for "welfare" (free money for not working) to the humans who supposedly lost their jobs to automation. (This will probably not occur in China or Singapore)

China will be producing a lot more billionaires!

Virgo 49 said...

Anon 9 46

Singapore not producing ENOUGH IT personnel?

My son from Nghee Ann Poly the Institution that churned out the most IT personnel and my nephew direct from NUS with Masters in IT and now as Vice President of DBS.

My son further IT degree with Auss Uni as the Papies would NOT grant futher educational subsidies for those who had already bite their first cheery.
So no way for Sinkie U second chance.

He even scored good in the SATs test for admission to the local U. But the Pay and Pay after collecting Sinkies taxes prefer to spend on the foreign trashes students.

Hoping that these beholden sponsored students both in tuitions fees and even allowances would serve Sinkieland and be One Up on our children.

Even when they were to return to their homeland, they be grateful enough and keep Sinkieland in mind on businesses dealings.

Little do they know that they are been screwed by them left and right and called idiots.

That's why the Malaysian Chinese sand deep praises of our magnanimous PAP leaders.Those parasites who stayed back are even offered jobs margainsing our own local children.

And yet the daft 69.9% still voted for them.Must be REAL dafts.

Forsaken our own and feed the others. Even one poor Singapore father wanted to withdraw own monies for his daughter's studies also rejected. Saying he got not enough for his retirement qualifications.

Now already ai see beh see want to have enough for his future retirements savings.

The influx of the half past IT peesonnel in are employed by the traitous employers who just for the sake of the bottom line and shareholders greed have them as cheap.Not employing Sinkies local IT personnel.

Only those MNCs treasured our talented local lads and gals whom they knew are class above these fake diploma and degrees holders from don't know what Timbutu countries.

My son was all the while in the employment of MNCs which valued our dipolmas and degrees.He now landed with SamSeng. Oops Samseng in the IT dept.They prefer us than the Ah Nehs.

They knew that ours is way above board.Those with long ago qualifications. Now with those trashy Profs from the Unscrupulous Countries not too sure now.

Prof given a set of expensive pens and just ruba ruba the girl's crotch can give her distinctions.

Aussie Prof gave all students A distinctions without much efforts.

Pang Sai chua now.i.e.Toilet paper qualifications.

So, Sinkies IT unemployed are not they are no good.But they are been sidelined.Too many of their trash kinds already hold the employment scene that sidelined our own.

Virgo 49 said...

Sorry should be Samsung NOT Samseng.

Samseng long past in the 50s

Cheers

Anonymous said...

@All,

IMF just lowered S'pore GDP growth forecast to 2% this year. Recommending PAP govt to reduce foreigner ABSD to be the same as citizens. And later phasing out property cooling measures. MAS replied they're reviewing IMF's recommendations. Property types must be praying to Tua Pek Kong that PAP will listen.

Anonymous said...

@Virgo,

If your son had been in the top 15% in his Poly IT course, he can go to local Uni on subsidised fees.

It's becoz he didn't score high enough that's why no direct Poly admission to local Uni --- need to pay full fees.

Anyway for IT in private sector --- it's quality experience & VERIFIABLE PROVEN quality outputs that determine how high the person can climb & how much he will earn. The type of paper only determines the starting point.

Virgo 49 said...

We are willingly to pay our own fees.

But the PAP always think that their fees are heavily subsidized. They do not want to sort of subsides again.

Once you have subsidy from a higher institution as in their criteria, they would not want to further any more your application for another local higher institution.

Forsaken our own and feed others.

Cheers

Anonymous said...

Alamak.
We have outsourced Singapore's progress to the PAP for 50 years liao.

We pay millions in salaries to the PAP Ministers for quality work.

How, Singaporeans?
Happy with the results?
Lampar song boh?

Anonymous said...

η”ŸδΈεΈ¦ζ₯,
死不带去。
Born naked
and leaves
empty handed.
There is no need
to boast about wealth and or ability.
All the more there is no need to glorify oneself. How grand one is shall ends up dirt and dust.
And who is to know what gonna happen before that.
η”Ÿθ€η—…ζ­»。
Born, age, sickly
and die, can anyone escapes from it ?

Anonymous said...

Hi15opm

U are 1o8% correct!

Hahaha.......

Anonymous said...

The world is cruel. Its like that everywhere. Gov bullied their own people to line their and their mates pockets. Everywhere the same, not only sg. Since cannot win them so must see how to profit.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

From a post in a different thread here

[quote]
Anyway this "$9 engineer, for 12 bucks we'll throw in a curry and chapati too!" special offer from India is soon to be a thing of the past. Your software engineer's cost will approach Zero Dollars, as Artificial Intelligence learns to write code for itself and other systems.

Microsoft's DeepCoder (Google it yurself lah) is such an AI, among the various out there being developed as we move closer to Machine World where basically machines are doing all the work, and we are just eating, having a good time and fucking...all day long.

Since companies like Boeing are way ahead, large, rich and are monopolies, they will be the first to benefit from Zero-cost programming. Software engineers won't even be able to command $9 an hour at that point. Out of job lah. Job gone forever. 🀣
[unquote]

=======
@454:

>> The world is cruel. Its like that everywhere. <<

Nature is 'cruel" (that's our value ie subjective judgement. Nature itself could care less about what we think). The brutality of nature is its main way of "operation". Nature is based on one species having to kill and feed off other species for survival and perpetuation. So relac lah...embrace cruelty 🀑☠️ Without it, we couldn't live.

Anonymous said...

@Matilah,

Goldman & JP Morgan (prob many other companies too) are already at least 1+ year into nurturing AI systems that are self-learning, self-evolving & self-replicating --- autonomously developing & writing software programs to trade & invest ..... improving itself based on performance, changing market conditions & new data continuously churning in.

The army of PhD data & computer scientists employed for this initiative admitted as much that they are working themselves into obsolescence. However they are very well paid with the hope that they will be independently wealthy by the time the machines are smarter than them.

Anonymous said...

"The notion that it may be necessary to thwart the economic rise of non-western countries, in order to cement western domination, is, in my view, an abomination." - Martin Wolf, Financial Times, 16 July 2019.

Virgo 49 said...

Global Times smirked at USA economy only grew at 3.1 per cent in first quarter.

Second quarter?

Saying theirs more than double.

Anonymous said...

@Virgo,

Sigh ... Like I said, idiots like you just don't understand basic economics & finance.

You need to take into account the different levels of a country's economic maturity & development.

3.1% US gdp is like 18% china gdp.

And 6.2% china gdp is like 0.5% us gdp.

In fact 3+% gdp is TOO HIGH for US --- danger of overheating like in 1999.

The ideal gdp growth for US is actually around 2.5%

Virgo 49 said...

To me 6.2 is bigger and larger than 2.5

You think Economists at Global Times are idiots like you.

Trying to show off your LAN sai wncomics or enconmics.

These bullshits soothsayers tak Pak Liao.

Always hmmm, I think,u think.

Load of bullshiters

Virgo 49 said...

2.5 Ideal for the USA.

Might as well said 1.5

Lousy means lousy.

If not Chinamen would not smirk at them

Cock

Virgo 49 said...

Singapore also ideal 0.1 or minus minus percentage.

Mature mature dying economy.

Botak will scold you. Ideal ?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

According to Singaponomics, if you want pay rise you must have rise in GDP. Or if there is growth, ie rise in GDP, then you can have pay rise.

3% GDP growth theoretically can afford 3% pay rise, 1% growth, 1% pay rise....

If 1% or 3% GDP growth and want to have 10% pay rise, then some sector must have not pay rise at all to allow some to have more pay rise, capitalism at work towards greater inequality.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ Virgo

In mature economies, if you can grow at 3% it's damn good already. If you are 4-4.5%, you are booming....and the relevant central banks are keeping an eye out in case inflation goes nuts, where they will step in and raise interest rates, and if that doesn't work, start a sell off of securities (assets) to reduce their balance sheets (i.e mop up liquidity....slow the rate of growth down and hopefully not crash everything).

People take economic cycles too seriously. Evey cuntry has them. Sometimes you cruise along, sometimes there's a nice boom and whether you accept it or not...eventually a bust. Wash, rinse, repeat.

This book is excellent. Dalio has taken apart debt cycles in history, done some brilliant analysis and shared his insights on how his hedge fund (world's largest) makes money in nearly all circumstances. It's all there: Principles For Navigating BIG DEBT CRISES

Virgo 49 said...

Good.Let's wait for the Americans to state their 2nd Quarter percentage.

Whether they can beat their damn death knell ring of China's dying enconmy of only 6.2%.

Hello towards August already, why the delay?

Or like Sinkieland must take 56 man years to finalise the figures?

Let's see who has the last laugh.

Cheers

Virgo 49 said...

Just read a nice rebuttal from Mr Hu Xijin of China's editor Global Times.

Quote: 6.2 percent is much higher than US growth.Wait until US growth hits 6.2 per cent then laugh at China."

Cheers

Frog Outside Glass said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Frog Outside Glass said...

Way To Go - Short-Cut And Short-Change To Riches

Actually, the main problem with Boeing 737 Max is not the software!
The faulty software is only used as a scapegoat to divert attention, and reduce blame.

The main problem is two-fold:

1. Structural defect - bad design affecting in-flight plane balancing, and

2. Over-sized engines - too heavy for the wings.

This faulty (fatal) structural design was meant to save fuel (not save life) and therefore ended up sacrificing safety, causing MAX Deaths and Destructions.

In order to off-set the deadly structural problem, one smart asshole (who should be hanged) came up with a software to "automatically" control and steer the plane. This was hailed as a bright idea and was approved by Boeing's Board of Directors and Top Management. This was also approved by the US Aviation Authorities.

Boeing must have paid lots of "donations" to political figures who had/have powers to influence decision-making in the various US government agencies?

Why did the FBI not investigate? Perhaps FBI key people have been brought under Boeing's payroll?

What's wrong with sharing the huge profits of Boeing's sales?

What's wrong with collecting more money?

Deaths of airline customers can be taken as collateral damage in this War of Getting-Rich-Quick (WGRQ), where making more and more money is the only game in life.

For those airlines and their customers who still think highly of Boeing's 737 Max aircrafts, you had better think again for your own good.

Anonymous said...

@Virgo

Pls dont embarrass yourself. When it comes to finance & econs, you're like a 70 yr old eunuch telling a playboy how to fuck.

You should stick to TCSS about casinos, gambling & prostitutes.

The US gdp release dates schedule is advertised months in advance.

I hope it's below 3% ... for US stocks today the ideal number is between 2% & 2.5% (goldilocks economy).

Global Times editors & writers are not economists or financially literate. They aren't even real reporters. They're propagandists & political opportunists who can't make it in the real world. Ask them to quit & work for private companies in Shanghai or Shenzhen --- they won't or can't. LOL!!!

Virgo 49 said...

You think you also Envomist??

We are just postings as laymen terms and you have to add names calling and insults.

Please lah, Poorlah as Ah Nehs said.

My five vials blood tests confirmed NO AIDS, no VD and no infectious diseases.

I Holy man only with one woman and that is my wife.

Unlike you braggart wah expurt in Economics which is now no value in the unemployment market now.

Analysts a whale of bullshitters.

With remarks as I think, you think and I guess.Hmmm, aaahh pausing for words and time.

Conned two year old kids.

By the way you got chance to go Casinos or not with your bullshits brillant economics. Long lost traditional jobs now