4/02/2019

Shanmugam – A sensible speech in Parliament on hate speech

Seldom did we hear such an elaborate and detailed speech by Shanmugam on an issue being debated in Parliament. On the new bill being tabled on hate speech, Shanmugam spent time labouriously to explain the rationale of wanting this bill but also made a provision that even though it is being tabled, it is for discussion and may or may not lead to a new law.
 

What is pertinent is the way the govt will treat and judge what is hate speech which also includes offensive speech. Offensive speech can deteriorate and slide down to become adverse and may lead to ‘discrimination and eventual violence’ like hate speech. But before a judgement is passed on hate speech or offensive speech, the govt will look ‘at how offensive the materials or words are, and assesses its impact on the reaction of the different communities…depending on who says it and in what context’. It is thus not so simple to brand everything from the word go as hate or offensive speech. The govt will also look ‘at the nature of the event where the speech is made and its reach…the immediate reaction, and consider the security implications, both short and long term, such as the deepening of fault lines.’
 

All in all it is also about common sense and a bit of give and take. The govt will be neutral and recognize the different histories and traditions of various groups but would not ‘be directed by the viewpoint of people who are extremely sensitive’.
 

Hate speech and offensive speech is not simply black and white and every case must be carefully determined before the govt would take action, at least this is what I read from Shanmugam’s explanation.
 

Ok, you guys here, please avoid offensive speeches and comments that could lead to division and hate and eventual violence. Be very careful and sensitive towards others and their feelings. I know many of your comments border on offensive speeches. Please do not continue to repeat them.
 

Thank you.

PS. According to thenewpaper, 'Opinions, criticisms, satire and parody will not be considered illegal'.

27 comments:

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ all

As a freedom of speech ABSOLUTIST, I hate this policy. However, there is a nice loophole: satire and
parody are ok.
So that’s what people have to do: become comedy writers, 😂 which is great because it is in keeping with the spirit of the internet. Associated skills are photoshopping and video editing, animation, music production, sketch writing, arts and crafts in general. Plus it helps to keep a few lawyer friends close...just in case.

in societies where the education and wealth levels are reasonably high, it is highly unlikely that hate speech turns into violence. Sometimes YOU WANT speech to turn into violence, like what is happening in France. LKY said it himself, if a tyrannical govt refuses to quit, the people should take up arms and fight them. CONTEXT is key.

Shanmugam’s head-trip is to silence detractors of the PAP prior to election, and to maintain and concentrate power after they win the election. The People (quite rightly) are questioning the changing nature of the PAP. IMO, to be skeptical of elected and unelected leaders and authority is a HEALTHY THING. You don’t even have to make sense --- the role of free expression is far more important than the content or the “accuracy” of the claims. Let the listeners make up their own minds --- INDEPENDENTLY.

@ RB

To my knowledge, no speech from this blog --- hateful or otherwise has translated into ACTION of any kind. 😂 forget violence lah, these motherfuckers are so passive and weak, you can make a bet that nothing will change in reality regardless of what is expressed here.

Anonymous said...


Sorry....Please forgive me....I am no good in my england......

To me.....this subject is very very "si-peh" deep!....complicated!...confusing!......

Dont play play.......can kena jail hor!

So...what to do?.....the best....is to say nothing? Keep quiet?

Hahaha..........

Anonymous said...

Black Angel Sham: " Thou shall not indulge or insinuate or imply or rejoice or spread or disseminate whatsoever in the context of hate or hate speech or any offensive language, which in effect cause or result in hurtful, threats, violence any any offensive actions in the community /organization /nations/country base on the Constitution if the Republic of Sinkieland " Amen, Allah & Almighty Supreme One.

Anonymous said...

According to thenewpaper, 'Opinions, criticisms, satire and parody will not be considered illegal'.

We have to thank the god in white for this little mercy.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

>>12987870
Swedish Bros have to start killing ALL their politicians.
ALL OF THEM


>>SVERIGE
Get out your guns and kill the invaders.
Get out your guns and kill the traitors
None. Can. Be. Left. Alive.
There is no negotiation possible with these people.



The examples above are from a thread on the /pol/ (politically incorrect) board on 8chan (a no holds barred collection of image boards). The thread in question deals with immigration in Sweden, and the resistance to their govt’s policy.

The calls to violence and murder are as clear as day. The Christchurch shooter was a huge (still is) celebrity on 8chan’s /pol/, so of course politicians blame 8 chan. No, I am not providing the url to 8 chan. Get it yourself.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...


Further examples of hard-hitting satire and parody


Encyclopedia Dramatica

Entry on Singapore

Entry on Malaysia. It is more interesting because they have a greater degree of FREE SPEECH than us Singaporeans.

====

Name Wee --- Malaysian rapper, musician and artist

Parody on Malaysian National Anthemn Negara-Ku

Parody on TNB (Malaysia's National Electricity Utility)

He's excellent, IMO! 👍👍

jjgg said...

Aiya..if u don't germinate the grounds for hate will it ever proliferate? U change rules to suit yourselves..shift the goalposts when u fuck up.. import millions of foreigners to compete for space jobs n housing without adequate consideration for social malaise.. n you say that the cause is online lack of control? At the end of the day there is one unavoidable conclusion..the government is the cause of all our woes..happiness also..albeit the latter in very small handouts.. never too late to take a step back.. do right by the citizens and all the hate will dissipate.

Anonymous said...

@ jigg
Well said indeed.
lf Leeders create division, acrimony and hate,
how can a society be free of conflict?
Are Sin Leeders capable of formenting harmony and unity??
Doubt so,
since they are frequently at odds with siblings, kins, the People and with neighbouring countries.

Anonymous said...

@All,

The problem with this proposed law (definitely sure to become law soon), is that a lot of it is subjective & open to interpretation by the powers of the day. And even by the masses as well (if majority of a particular race/language/religion/colour/culture feel insulted).

Noticed that a lot of Sham's speech talked about common sense, reasonableness, social norms, etc. Sounds good in theory but easily hijacked & manipulated & bastardised by those in power.

I can tell you today that a lot of what is considered comment & parody & satire is considered seditious by the govt.

Anonymous said...

The PAP must have carefully considered, taking into account of what have happened in the last 20 years or so, within and outside the country, the steady increase in hatred and violence due to the new policies, rules, registrations or deregulations, new laws or amendments to existing laws that have been enacted, implemented and followed up, especially those that have lead to or directly caused much hardship to individuals and communities.

The present leadersheep (leaders of sheep) must have felt that violence would ultimately result once the sparks of hatred are fanned and spread.

This followed-up violence is inevitable, whether there is new law in place or not.

The new law only adresses the symptom, not the cause and causes.

The cause is the government and the causes are the policy-makers. These have to be addressed and fixed first and foremost. Otherwise, no amount of new laws would be able to prevent the avalanche once it started. When the critical breaking point is reached, all hell will break loose. A lawless state exists. The natural law of the jungle will be the only law the people understand and adopt. All artificial man-made laws, deviced to protect the rulers, leaders and government will be brushed aside and swept into the sewage.

Why create and fan the fire, and then try to find a way to put out the blaze? Why not avoid starting the fire in the first place?

You asked to be screwed, knowing fully well that it will be painful, and then you complain of pain. And then look for a remedy to stop the pain. You can't have the cake and eat it all the time, isn't it?

Anonymous said...

If you want to kpkbsssss and tcsSssss, just do it! Now!

Anonymous said...

Algerians: We Want Real Change!"

"We don’t want these symbols of a corrupted system that has betrayed the popular will. We want real change," opposition leader Mostefa Bouchachi said.

Sinkies: We don't want to change.

Anonymous said...

Better rake news and or propaganda than bloodshed and bloodflow on the street
However,
if it is bloodshed and flow to rid traitor, betrayor and 'cunt sins', may it comes soon.

Anonymous said...

Suppression is like a prostitute. The first time you do it, you feel a sense of revulsion. The more you do it, the more you get use to it. You just don't feel anything anymore.

Anonymous said...

The G is trying to provide some kind of Panadol to cure the hatred sickness. The exact root causes r the G and the Dafts themselves whom voted them in. Where there r no perform garmen, similarly there r none perfect solution, like they said err on the side of caution, if that is the case then many of the G problems won't hv happen in the first place.

Anonymous said...

///Suppression is like a prostitute. The first time you do it, you feel a sense of revulsion. The more you do it, the more you get use to it. You just don't feel anything anymore.///

Isn't that just a fucking waste of money?!?! No wonder million dollar salaries not enough!!

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ all

We may not “like” hate speech, especially when we are the target.

However at least I can appreciate a eprson who directed their hate speech at me as their honest opinion. I’d much prefer that --- so at least I know for sure --- than have that person pretend to like me, then one day sabo me behind my back. That’s really fucked up.

Hate speech breeds honesty. Hate is a valid human emotion, it should not be suppressed by government fiat.

The cure for all types of “negative” speech --- un-PC speech, hate speech, fake news etc is MORE speech.

Logically, and practically, Shanmugam is dead wrong on this. Driving hatred “underground” because it cannot be expressed in the open, thus subject to public scrutiny and response is dangerous.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

Unsurprising that Shanmugam's ideas are part of the continuing culture of suppression of expression, ideas that conflict with the "status quo", and just childish people who cannot tahan the discomfort of being called out, ridiculed or "disrespected". (motherfucker, this is a meritocracy, ie. you have to earn your values. Respect is a value, so go and fucking earn it)

Pretty piss poor record of freedom, mate!

Anonymous said...

Rb, is black ants offensive or not? Cause these Two words appeared in the comment section very often.

Anonymous said...

逼虎跳墙

愚蠢的做法。
这样的政法后果,
结果通常是负面效应。
还有
另一面需要考虑的是
欲加之罪,何患无辞。
对于权势的滥用,一向
来平民都认为官家们一
般随心所欲,以任何借
口和理由操控一切。
Going extreme to suppress freedom of expression and speech shall result in negative and detrimental repercussion.
The Chinese Saying 欲加之罪,何患无辞/there is always ways to impeach with intend whether reasonable or not. lt means to say that the Rulers have the Power to use as they like with the Masses under their control.
Whatever and however the Law comes into play
with regard fake news,
the Authority may like to be mindful that the Definition of Fake News must be acceptable to the Average Man anywhere universally.

Anonymous said...

Is Singapore becoming North Korea 2.0 ??

Anonymous said...

From Lee Kuan Yew:

"Repression, Sir is a habit that grows. I am told it is like making love-it is always easier the second time! The first time there may be pangs of conscience, a sense of guilt. But once embarked on this course with constant repetition you get more and more brazen in the attack. All you have to do is to dissolve organizations and societies and banish and detain the key political workers in these societies. Then miraculously everything is tranquil on the surface. Then an intimidated press and the government-controlled radio together can regularly sing your praises, and slowly and steadily the people are made to forget the evil things that have already been done, or if these things are referred to again they're conveniently distorted and distorted with impunity, because there will be no opposition to contradict."

As an Opposition Leader of PAP, speaking to Chief Minister David Marshall, Singapore Legislative Assembly Debates, 4 October, 1956.


"Repression can only go up to a point. When it becomes too acute, the instruments of repression, namely the army and the police, have been proved time and time again in history to have turned their guns on their masters."

Opposition leader Lee Kuan Yew, Straits Times, May 5, 1959.


"Let us get down to fundamentals. Is this an open, or is this a closed society? Is it a society where men can preach ideas - novel, unorthodox, heresies, to established churches and established governments - where there is a constant contest for men's hearts and minds on the basis of what is right, of what is just, of what is in the national interests, or is it a closed society where the mass media - the newspapers, the journals, publications, TV, radio - either bound by sound or by sight, or both sound and sight, men's minds are fed with a constant drone of sycophantic support for a particular orthodox political philosophy? I am talking of the principle of the open society, the open debate, ideas, not intimidation, persuasion not coercion ....."

Before Singapore's independence, Malaysian Parliamentary Debates, Dec 18, 1964.


"You know, the cure for all this talk is really a good dose of incompetent government. You get that alternative and you'll never put Singapore together again: Humpty Dumpty cannot be put together again... my asset values will disappear, my apartments will be worth a fraction of what they were, my ministers' jobs will be in peril, their security will be at risk and their women will become maids in other people's countries, foreign workers. I cannot have that!"

Justifying million-dollar pay hike for Singapore Ministers (Straits Times, 5 April 2007).


"Singaporeans, if I can chose an analogy, we are the hard disk of a computer, the foreign talent are the megabytes you add to your storage capacity. So your computer never hangs because you got enormous storage capacity,"
(But data security got breached again and again!)

On accepting foreign trash and fake talents (Straits Times, 22 April 2007).


"When you're Singapore and your existence depends on performance — extraordinary performance, better than your competitors — when that performance disappears because the system on which it's been based becomes eroded, then you've lost everything... I try to tell the younger generation that and they say the old man is playing the same record, we've heard it all before. I happen to know how we got here and I know how we can unscramble it."

On one election result in Singapore, in Straits Times (26 June 2008).

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Anon 9:11pm,

Whatever names people attached to you is offensive to you. Even calling Singaporeans sinkies is offensive to some sinkies.

Best to avoid calling people names unless you don't mine people calling you the same.

Even when I used wildlife, the wildlife will be offended just like the bananas would be offended.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ RB, all

When (new) laws make people CRIMINALS from just conducting themselves in normal day to day activities, you know that they are bad laws.

If the laws are so vague as to allow authorities to interpret them in ways which suit them, and leave no room for the "criminal" (you and I) to use the nuances of language, again, that is a "signal" that these are bad laws.

Nuances of language are important. Human communication depends on it. Machines are lousy at it, human being use lingual nuances without having to think about it.

When you say "That prick John is late again. I'm going to kill John". A machine will interpret that that a homicide is imminent. Normal humans will just let it slide. They don't even have to consciously evaluate whether the meaning is literal or not. It's automatic.

Our communication is full of metaphor and nuance. Not everything is literal. Our lawmakers sem to have convieniently forgotten that FACT.

When you neglect FACTS, chances are your conclusion will be WRONG.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@knock-on effects (KOE) of really fucking awful public policy

from the 1960s and 1970s:

1. Stop at Two Campaign
KOE: low birth rate now, aging population, therefore "import" foreigners

2. Eat More Wheat Campaign
Should have been eat more veggies, stick with rice, especiallt brown rice. Processed white wheat flour is fucking bad for you. At such a high glycemic index, you might as well just shovel sugar in your mouth.
KOE: spike in diabetes, heart disease and cancer, in he cohorts who grew up during that time.

3. Do not Spread Rumours Campaign.
The precursor to our anti "fake news" policy now.
KOE: A spread of "non critical/ independent thinking" culture. Bloody terrible for international competitiveness and entrepreneurship. Nice one PAP.

4. Anti Long Hair Campaign
KOE: chased away the artists and musicians of the day resulting in a fucked local arts scene and low-standard creativity culture for decades.
Also chased away the "hippies" who formed Silicon Valley...all of who were whip-smart, entrepreneurial and had long hair.
Thanks PAP. We could have become richer, sooner.

5. Drink More Milk Campaign in Schools
We now know that dairy, if consumed, should be done in moderation. The milk served in schools was FULL CREAM (i.e. full of saturated FAT). You can get calcium from veggies, nuts, seeds and fish --- all far better for health.
KOE: Good on you PAP in raising the FAT levels in the bloodstream of school children, possibly damaging their hearts and cardiovascular systems, and "conditioning" them to consume dairy products.

Plese feel free to add more fucked public policy and their Knock On Effects.

Anonymous said...

The New Law On Fake News


Anyone who has the power to make you believe in absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices and atrocities.

The time has arrived when truth can be burried as fake, and fake is upheld by law as truth - because YEW have the power to do so.

YEW have just created a new law to give YEW that power.

Alas! May God Have Mercy Upon Us!

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