PAP knows or dunno?

Below are some comments taken from Roy Ngerng's post in the TRE blaming the PAP for Singaporeans unable to retire because not enough money in the CPF.

Thus when Singaporeans cannot retire today, the fault lies squarely on the PAP.
(A) The PAP knew that flats prices will become zero, but still made Singaporeans use their CPF to inflate resale flat prices.
(B) The PAP knew that flat prices will become zero, but still made Singaporeans pay market prices for the land that the flats sit on.
(C) The PAP knows that flat prices will become zero, and decline in value, but still tell Singaporeans they will introduce a VERS which will not help much.
(D) The PAP knows that flat prices will become zero, and decline in value after 20 years, so they say they will introduce VERS after 20 years, because by then, VERS will not cost them much to them anyway – the PAP is kicking the problem down the road.

Finally, CPF changes, the Medisave, Medishield and increases to university fees were all started in the 1980s when PAP changed course. All these happened 30 years ago but it took about 30 years for the effects to finally unravel and be felt by Singaporeans today.
So, what will you do?

Roy Ngerng

I think Roy Ngerng got it all wrong, giving them too much credit or thinking that they are really smart and know everything. I think they really dunno what they were saying, like  HDB flat value will always go up. That's why they came up with asset enhancement scheme to continue to improve and raise the value of the HDB flats. And the latest, VERS, is supposed to do the same, to protect the value of the HDB flat even if the lease is left with 20 years. VERs could keep the value from falling. Just believe. If only they know that whatever they do, when the lease expires, the value must be zero, they would not want to waste so much money on a depreciating asset. But it is good if the govt is going to pay for the upgrading at least to keep the flats looking good and not turning into a rundown estate.

If one is still convinced that they know, then one may be accused of saying that they must be lying right? How can they know and still say different things and do different things against the hard truth.  This is why I confidently conclude that they are not that smart after all. They dunno!

Another way of looking at this is that they think the people are really daft.

What do you think?


Anonymous said...

NO one wanted to speak up even though they knew it's wrong to say that a leasehold property price will always go up, because they want to protect their stratospheric salaries.

It is common sense that if a citizen uses all his CPF savings to buy a leasehold flat and when the lease expires, the flat value turns to zero and so will his savings, leaving nothing left for retirement.

Anonymous said...

If sinkies still don't understand, then they should look at the 10 years leased cars. After 10 years even if the car in good condition, it's value is also zero. So understand or not? No need to wait 99 years to know lar.πŸ˜€

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

When I scrapped my car they still paid me $150 for scrap metal. As for HDB flat, no one is going to pay you anything, $0 value.

The scrap car thing is a ripoff. A 10 year old car can easily run for another 10 years or more. The owner has no choice but to sell it as scrap for $150. The tyres would worth more than that, the sports rim, the sound system, not to mention that the car is still road worthy. Can easily re export to other countries for a couple of thousand dollars.

This is how waste is our 10 COE system. We talked so big about protecting the environment, about saving on plastic bags and disposable chopsticks. How much is wasted for scrapping a 10 year old car? How wasteful!

Stupidity has no cure.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ all

Aiyah, this Roy chapis setting himself to be walloped again. I feel sorry for the guy because he does mean well. But he should do more checking---rigourous checking if he wants to fire a shot at the PAP. Maybe enlist the help of an impartial party...I don't know.

Nowhere in the CPF does it mention that it is the govt's job to ensure that there will be enough to retire on...i.e. just on the amount in CPF.

In fact, warnings (from the PAP themselves) were given in the 1980s to encourage Singaporeans to take out life policies, thus the boom in the insurance industry.

All the subsequent "tinkering" with the CPF has been 100% legal and constitutional...the PAP old guard established the "absolute rule of law" method of getting things done, and to this day it hasn't changed. That is not to say the PAP haven't used the law in their favour, but that is to be expected by any rational-thinking citizen and should come as no surprise.

In Singapore, nothing about the polity is fixed in stone. In fact, quite the opposite. The PAP is famous for it's PRAGMATISM and will introduce policy or change existing policy to suit the changing world, and occsionally to award themselves a "political edge". C'mon, unless you've been asleep for the last 50 years, you already know "The Drill". πŸ€“

Here's what I reckon will happen with CPF/ MediSave/ Eldershield...or whatever the name of the insurance scheme:

1. Minimum sum will increase
2. MediSave contributions will increase
3. ElderShield premiums will increase (show me an insurance company which reduces premiums...not going to happen)

Nation Building is in effect. The tactic statement is Get on the same page...or get out, or suffer the consequences of your folly.

More "fantastic plans" are on the drawing board. Like I said, don't fucking believe me. Just observe and experience. I write it down and time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

Many of these "super nation builders" are going to shake up Singapore society and some will strike at the core of real human lives. many Singaporeans of course will reap HUGE benefits. You might even see a few "quitters" return and start living in Singapore again. Those who've retained their pink NRICs and red passports are likely (and OBVIOUS) candidates.

Anonymous said...

Even with VERS, at 70 years old flat, after 99 years, still got value or not even if the unit is renovated like new? Knn u tell me lar

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ "true believers"

KNN for decades many of us have been saying HDB isnot "ownership" lah. It is a LEASE. What you own is a lease, which is time sensitive (like an option), which you can buy and sell (like an option).

The PAP makes fuck noise about insisting that HDB is "ownership". Even now whenitis all out in the open that leases go to ZERO on expiry (like an option)...they still insist on this same-old-sing-a-long called "ownership".

And still people believe! πŸ˜‚πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡¬

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Once a HDB flat reaches 60 years the value is likely to fall rapidly except for those with rental values. But their values would be dependent on the rental factor. Once they can't rent it out, it loses its value and goes back to the residual value of the time left in the lease.

Anonymous said...

The timing of the entry of LHY into politics coincided with government pragmatism taken to the extreme by this influx of million foreigners and the legal tussles his son is facing and what workers party is going through now. And now Roy trying to poke on the housing issues that affect vote bank of the Pap.

Taken to the extreme all matter will change its form.

When the citizens are nice and cooperating do not take it for granted. Because when yin reaches its extreme it would becomes yang! When citizens become very frustrated with the policies when you are told by the authority they are giving the green light to increase the fare hikes HOW can you then on the next few days announced a acquisition of company by the very company that seek to increase the fares. Even the transport minister has no objection!

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ RB,

This is the shit bag of problems which happen when public housing is turned into "private asset".

HDB has to go back to the original way. For e.g. (easy figures, not true ones) $99k for 99 years. Therefore a 60 year old flat should be priced at $39k. No fucking around with "asset enhancement". No driving people crazy so that they have to work until die to pay.

And...best one...no using HDB as a politic carrot and stick.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

People tie up a significant amount of the networth into a govt-issued lease for public housing.


Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ "always a joker"

I dunno why so many of you actually allow your imagination to get the better of you and conclude that Yang has political ambitions.

Please lah, he's always tried to be "incognito" and under the radar as much as possible. You are talking about a guy who as a kid used to try to lose his body guards so he could hang out with "normal kids".

He won't be running lah. What for? He doesn't need the job, he loves his good time life. You have to be crazy to want to run a place like Singapore.

And consider this: if the PAP lose, and some opposition/ independent gets in... GUE WHO WILL BE IN OPPOSITION? A well-resourced and formidable PAP, with all the contacts, global guanxi, regional networks in banking, industry, defense...you name it lah.

If the PAP LOSE, they won't lose EVERY SEAT. They will still be an extremely STRONG opposition in the parliament!

Justice Must Prevail said...

PAP introduced the CPF Scheme (or Scam) to force the PEOPLE to save 35% to 45% of their income for RETIREMENT.

PAP then forced the PEOPLE to LEASE a cheap mass-production HDB Flat for 99 years, knowing that when the LEASE EXPIRES the VALUE of the HDB Flat becomes ZERO.

PAP cunningly made the PEOPLE transferred their CPF savings (meant for RETIREMENT) to HDB.

HDB cunningly INFLATED HDB Flats' Prices sky high exhorbitantly, calling it ASSET Enhancement, by using Market Prices instead of Cost Price of the Mass-Produced Cheap Flat plus a bit of profits.

To make matters worst, PAP cunningly added the Cost of Land (at sky high market price), which the PAP cunningly enected a new Law in 1973 to "nationalise" and forcefully "robbed" the PEOPLE of ALL their lands, at a rock bottom price of 3 cents per square meter.

In the mean time, whatever savings that is left in the CPF for RETIREMENT, the PAP top scholars cunningly thought out plans to deplete them by siphoning them off quietly and steadily through ruthless "ponzi insurance" schemes for life. This FULLY ENSURE that by the time YOU NEED YOUR SAVINGS FOR RETIREMENT, YOU HAVE VERY LITTLE OR NOTHING LEFT.


Stealing poor people's coffin money must never be condoned, tolerated nor atoned.


Anonymous said...

PAP say:

On the 98th year & 364th day, your HDB worth $1M.

On the 99th year & 0 day, your HDB worth $0.


Anonymous said...

42% compulsory savings rate for past 45 yrs. Its a super home run for Pappies to a humongous slash suka suka funds. Super powerful, super useful. No way if they are garment, citizons can get back much. Land acquisition act means super cheap land can be taken at will. Super arbitrage. Buy very low, and sell at inflated "market".
Control money, control land...its State capitalism lah. You died your business as long as they get your votes.

Anonymous said...

Aiya KPKB for fuck?!?!

If GE in 2019, confirmed PAPies will get at least 65%.

Go out into the streets, see the people on the roads, MRT, buses, offices, shops, malls .... you know this to be true!!!

No horse run.

Anonymous said...

KNN lah. This is all I have to say to PAPigs.

Anonymous said...

2 bid clap clap clap. 4 bid clap clap clap. 6 bid clap clap clap.

Anonymous said...

"November 08, 2018 3:34 pm"
Only when these people fed the same feeling of the 2nd class and become the mass, then there will be real change. But please do not give up hope, keep buying the 4D.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

To all Singaporeans, for the sake of your children, get out while you still can. Don't wait too long.

Anonymous said...

NSF no reason to die.

Dear people never comes home.

Anonymous said...

Don,t tell the leaders bad news?

Like the sgh case.

Leaders will make you collect cardboard.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ "skepticism has cut in"

Up until now, I was committed to the belief that the PAP are going to win the next GE.

Then I found out that 3 of my well-heeled friends have begun transferring their assets and part of their businesses out of Singapore. This could be coincidental, and I might be reading something into nothing out of the ordinary, but talking to them there is a wisp of a commo thread: they have it in their minds that public support for the PAP is declining.

One chap even cited the rise of Adolf Hitler: if you push the people too much, there's a chance a charismatic leader will rise up and displace the current status quo, and this person could be a psycho.

Another friend, savvy in matters of the political-economy said this: the middle (working) class expect their lives to get better, and expect their wealth to increase. They also expect a future for their kids and their employment prospects to be good and stable. They have worked all their lives, playing by the rules and not creating trouble. If the government is pushing them, there comes a point where they just won't take it anymore. They see the efforts of decades of hard work dwindle, they see their future and job prospects uncertain and unsecure, and of course, they worry for their childrens' futures.

So, I ticked all the boxes and have changed my mind: There is a chance---don't know how good or bad---that the PAP will lose the next election.

Of course, we won't know for sure until the votes are counted, victory claimed and defeat accepted.

Anonymous said...

SINGAPORE must restore the Constitution checks and balances now to the Government.

The Opposition Parties need to gain the oversight to the ministers and their policies. Now that we have reached the thresholds of NO return before we are completely drowned out by the millions of immigrants as already here and those waiting to come here.

Policies pursuant to IMMIGRATION , housing, national services, public transport etc

PLUS the MEDIA law that needs to be changed as it stifles reasonable voices like that of ProF Tommy Koh from being broadcast widely in the state media. And many others policies that are very bad for we the citizens of Singapore that need to retool or total revamp .

Anonymous said...

The Media law must change as we cannot afford to have a very good & respectable man like Professor Tommy Koh, a voice of reason and analysis being stifled by the state media.

He is speaking up for the good of Singapore.

The state media is working against the Singaporeans interests by not allowing voices of reason from being told.

Checks and balances are what Singapore needs in the next Government as the status quo is wrong and bad for the country!

Anonymous said...

Singapore needs to drain the swamp.

Anonymous said...

Ownself check ownself is NO can do.

We must have those Checks and balances like those Democrats in the US elections fulfilling their roles and check on President

We here in Singapore we must have this checks and balances.

How can we lose out to Malaysia in term of political opening up. We must do better for our future sake.

b said...

To be fair, old flats must be enbloc and the ponzi scheme can continue. Some people paid more than 500k for their old flats.