The logic of $1000 income can buy a flat is the same as $8 for an open heart surgery. But don’t laugh, it is true, it can be done. How, I dunno. But it is uttered in Parliament so must be a fact. It’s elementary, Watson!
I have known a young couple whose combined income is about $14k and with a couple of hundred thousands in savings. They will not be coming home. They could not afford to buy a private flat as it would mean emptying everything they have saved. And that is not all, still got to take nearly a million dollar mortgage.
Only fools will think of taking a million dollar mortgage and think it is alright. Or maybe a gambler will do that as there is always the hope of making more money as the value will appreciate, surely. And then sell it to buy a more expensive flat and take another bigger loan and keep snowballing the winnings.
The young couple will not be qualified for HDB flats for sure. So they must be sent to the private property market as cannon fodders to feed the developers. This is how merciless this govt has become in its housing policy and everyday pretending to ask why the Sinkies are not coming back home or moving out instead.
They are telling the highly qualified young that if they want to come back, prepare to pay a million bucks ransom first. And if the young want a bit more comfort in owning a car, another $100k at least for a cheap car. They think the young are so stupid to return home to be suckered? When they have been abroad and knowing what one million bucks can provide them, who the shit would want to come home to settle into a mickey mouse flat for the same sum, and reservist liabilities to add on?
But for less qualified professionals like FTs who would not be above the $12k income ceiling, it is okay. Convert to pink IC and buy a relatively cheaper HDB flat which the better qualified Sinkies would not be allowed to buy and no NS or reservist liabilities. Bid the time, let the property price go up and sell it to another suckered Sinkie that is not allowed to buy from the HDB direct and get out of here.
This kind of policy is so brilliant that it hurts the eyes.
50 comments:
I think you got your facts mixed up, RB. Your young couple friends will not qualify for BTO flats but they are certainly eligible to buy a resale HDB flat from the open market, subject to meeting other eligibility criteria like citizenship, not owning any private properties etc.
There is nothing mixed up. Buying a resale flat and not eligible to buy direct from HDB is like relegating one to the status of a PR after serving NS and still with 20 years of reservist liabilities.
Is this the way to treat our children and expect them to fight and defend this country with their lives?
You said and I quote:
"The young couple will not be qualified for HDB flats for sure."
Not all HDB flats are the same ie. there's BTO and resale. So, your statement is technically incorrect as they do qualify to buy resale, again subject to meeting the other eligibility criteria.
And what's the big fuss about serving NS? Shouldn't it be a duty that you are proud to perform without hoping for any material benefits or rewards? Most conscripts attitude towards NS is "Serve And F-off" anyway. So, if you display that sort of attitude, why should you even have any expectation that the country will reward you for your half-F 'service'?
Ok, for the HDB part I should have qualified, even it is a fact that all citizens knew.
All NS men will not quibble about NS and they have not for many years. But when one has served NS and treated worst than new citizens who have done, then it becomes an issue. NS is not 2 yrs and FO. There are 20 years of reservist pain to deal with. More painful is to think of defending those new citizens with more privileges.
When the country does not appreciate its citizens, then its citizens will not take it lying down. If the govt thinks they are doing right, continue, carry on. The govt can do as it pleases. The people can vote anyone to power as they please.
ANON: March 02, 2012 1:28 PM
"And what's the big fuss about serving NS?"
Exactly.
Let's discontinue NS since it's no big fuss.
And straight away, we will have 20,000 young men who can join the Singapore workforce.
And we don't need so many foreign talents.
And maybe one of these boys will make your daughter pregnant and contribute to our national fertility.
Forgot to use your words, if the govt is going to adopt the F attitude and take the citizens for granted, it is ok. Absolutely no problem.
Anon 1:28,
Have you serve NS or are you a new citizen, NS exempted, or a PR?
Fuuny, can raid the reserve to help the private bus co yet when ask to help the singaporean by ensuring the hdb flat is affordable is akin to raiding the reserve ?
Where is the logic?
I think those ministers and mp need to check their brains in IMH. I am serious !
SINGAPORE FAIRY TALES
----------------------
Author: Lim Pei Kali Kong
1. You can buy an HDB flat on an income of $1,000/month.
2. You will live long enough to get your hands on all your CPF money.
3. Only angels wear white.
4. We are a meritocracy. So people in charge are very talented.
Other bloggers, please also contribute your share of Singapore fairy tales.
Anon 1.41, yes I have served NS. In fact, I served when it was 2.5 years instead of 2 years at present. But you know what? I have since moved on. I don't keep on harping about how much I suffered not being able to earn an income, not being able to further my studies during those 2.5 years. Yes, like RB's young couple friends, I am one of those who do not qualify for BTO flats due to my income exceeding the threshold but I do not kpkb about how unfair it is nor think it downgrades my status to that of a PR. You can't always get what you want in life. That is fact. Deal with it and move on.
By the way we are *f* just like a dead knot is being tied and look like it very difficult to u- turn and don't think the policy maker will say oh say we make mistake let undo it. So what next ?
redbean,
You really are ridiculous.
Housing is a LUXURY... it should never have been an entitlement.
The fact that it is, -- through public housing policy -- means that the govt can use the mechanism of HDB + CPF to manipulate votes. As you well know, this has resulted in disaster.
Expecting the state to provide housing for an rapid and ever growing population is ridiculous.
The way you are going you are setting yourself up for a stroke or cardiac arrest over the matter. I suggest you have a nice tea susu and calm down.
Oh yah, just a reminder ..what is spoken in parliament is mostly BULLSHIT. It is the national, most-expensive wayang designed to divide people and cause them to fight against each other whilst the elites get on with sacking the cuntree and pillaging the wealth.
Good luck in your slumber. Sweet dreams.
Anon 1:57, good that you have moved on. But not everyone is like you. Every year something like 30k to 40k of young people coming into the home market. Not many will move on like you. And it is their right to be angry if they are affected. Just because you can move on does not mean that the rest must move on. You can do what you want, they can too. You have your views they have theirs.
The govt has the right to do what it wants and piss the people off. The people also have their right to piss off the govt.
Redbean, you said: "The govt can do as it pleases. The people can vote anyone to power as they please."
ROTFL. You know why the govt does as it pleases? It's because Sporeans continue to vote as they please by returning them time and again into power. Think about it. Even at the peak of Sporeans anger with the govt, Sporeans still returned them to power with > 60% of the vote. In most other countries, to get that sort of majority would be a politician's wet dream. The Labour party in Australia won the last election with a majority of only 50.1%. Let's face it redbean, deep down inside you know a change of govt will not happen in Spore. And that is because majority of Sporeans will continue to vote as they please by voting the PAP.
Matilah, you twisting yourself into a knot lah.
'The fact that it is, -- through public housing policy -- means that the govt can use the mechanism of HDB + CPF to manipulate votes. As you well know, this has resulted in disaster.'
The govt can wayang why can't the people wayang. The govt can twist votes why can't the people squeeze the govt's balls for their votes?
In a democracy the game is that the govt needs to buy votes and in order to do so, make promises and the people can give their votes and make demands.
What so ridiculous is this? Two sides can play the game.
You no worry, I just finish a cup of expresso and a cup of capuccino: ) Going for teh tarik now.
Hi anon 2:11, as they said, a journey starts with the first step.
The ground has shifted. The fact that the PAP is afraid to hold a by election in Hougang is very telling. The fact that they have lost a GRC and a good minister is telling.
When good minister like George can go, think about the unpopular ministers. It is going to be reall tricky.
@ rb March 02, 2012 2:15 PM
"The ground has shifted."
The following quote would be a fitting eulogy for the Pro Alien Party.
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
Harvey Dent from the Batman movie "The Dark Knight"
I have posted an article earlier on the changing trend. At one time when there was an election or by election, every PAP candidate would be putting up his hand saying 'I want, I want.' And every minister will volunteer to lead the charge, to take the battle to the opposition.
What is the situation now?
Been slow to keep up with the news lately but anyway...some MPs are bending their backsides to populist's views.... or becoming the mouth piece of a few self interests groups...and suggested views on how to better milk, or exploit, the property market for these few...self interests groups.
Now I like to caution the ppl in RB blog.
There are many lacking in "strategic thinking"and have no qualms speaking through their assholes( you gotta make your judgment call here and a good leader does not apologize for making unpopular decisions - some truth to that.)
So the govt forced to defend its current housing policies again but lets assume populist views of some sectors of our society wins or dangerous political duplicity takes over the current leadership.....what would do you think will happened?
There are a lot at stakes in housing, which is tied to the "supportive population".
You fuck with these...which RB is doing...can you not say many innocent lives assholes will be fucked?
Play your cards wrongly, you sink this island. You think the old man is talking cock here?
soorry...can you say many innocent lives assholes WILL NOT be fucked?
In the first place the housing is already fucked, just like the huge population and the huge number of foreigners. It is screwed so badly that there is no way to unwind except to keep winding and waiting for the spring to break.
Population, instead of gradual rise, it was artificially pumped up like a balloon, just like economic growth. In economics they can engineer a soft landing. How to engineer a soft landing in population growth if the number game is for continuous growth? 3% of 3m is 90K, 3% of 5m is 150k.
Same principle applies to housing prices. Everyone who has bought high is going to die if the price comes down. So how if cannot bring down the price? Keep pumping up the price and see where it will lead to?
The road down is 'boomed"
Me for one will not treat any member of a pack differently.
It was DPM Tharman that said a $1K income can buy a flat. He was not wrong as can be seen from the Comments.
Having a shelter other than food and water is a must for everyone. In most other countries, shelter and home could be in the forms of cave, large drainage structure and even the jungle. In Singapore, anywhere and anything one does not pay for belong to somebody or the State. To occupy any place for shelter is illegal and be subjected to prosecution. So, die die one must pay for shelter.
We all know of families with incomes of just few hundreds per month living in 'purchased' HDB Flats. WE ALSO KNOW THAT SOME ARE REPOSSESSED BY THE BOARD WHEN THEY FAILED TO PAY THEIR LOANS. AND WE ALSO KNOW HDB IS KIND ENOUGH TO SEND LICENSED DEBT COLLECTOR TO REMIND THE LESSEES BEFORE TAKING LEGAL ACTION.
Many HDB LESSEES defaulted on utility bills AND WE KNOW THE POWER AND WATER SUPPLIES WILL BE CUT-OFF from them. SO BUYING A PUBLIC HOUSING FLAT IS NOT THAT DIFFICULT, STAYING IN IT COULD BE DIFFICULT FOR SOME!
I have heard enough of Singaporeans claiming that the elderlies are happy to work no matter how low the pay and however long the working hours. They are telling me that otherwise these folks will have nothing to do as though they have no family, no friend and no hobby, pitiful folks indeed!
Non working old folks are called lazy, unproductive and even downright useless lazy old bastards. The folks who said so should very well ask themselves why they have such perverted sickening views. Are they living with nothing better to do than to work till they drop?
Same goes to evicted and disqualified Public Housing Buyers. Many are asked why born poor, why produced so many children, why not upgrade ones' job, why fall sick, why so old then buy and what not.
The poor are destined to suffer and helpless so long as the Authority and better off are looking at them the ways described above. It is only when there is a compassionate leadership that the lowest ten to twenty percent in our population can get help. Otherwise, these poor folks will be damned for generations.
patriot
In the current political and economic system, there is no way any of your suggestions will work without grave consequences somewhere. Question is, who SHOULD call the shots?
////
yes I have served NS. In fact, I served when it was 2.5 years instead of 2 years at present. But you know what? I have since moved on. I don't keep on harping about how much I suffered not being able to earn an income, not being able to further my studies during those 2.5 years. Yes, like RB's young couple friends, I am one of those who do not qualify for BTO flats due to my income exceeding the threshold but I do not kpkb about how unfair it is nor think it downgrades my status to that of a PR. You can't always get what you want in life. That is fact. Deal with it and move on.
////
Maybe you are tough enough to move on and do nothing even when some woman folks at your home is raped. Good for you who are good and take pride in stooging.
For us, we found pride in fighting.
Its better to be angry and vibrant than to be coward like you.
@ ANON: March 02, 2012 3:00 PM
"Play your cards wrongly, you sink this island. You think the old man is talking cock here?"
Oooooo!
It's the bogeyman.
I'm so scared!
My HDB flat against your bungalow.
So how?
You have fucked us so much we have nothing else left to lose.
Worse come to worst.
You talented fuckers can fuck off this island.
We remaining Sinkies who are too poor to emigrate.
We stay behind.
We invite the British or USA back.
How can we be any worse off?
Are we all 走火入魔?? Was at a dinner mtg with 4 old classmates last night, all of them sucked in by the property craze, interest has been so low, 0.75% for 30 years loan, can it be true?
If any big financial tsunami comes in, all will be without their pants with huge negative assets into their retirement.
ONE with 500K mortgage for his condo, another with 770K EC that is only 98 sq meter, another 1M mortgage for a condo in the east. They are going to pay till 75 years old, meaning no retirement at 55,60,62,67.... really must work till drop.
When have we made ourselves slave to all these material comforts, or are we simply conned into it by our own desire????
Just pray that they don't lost their pants come the next financial Tsunami.
ALL have vested interests in properties...even those WITHOUT a property. Understand?
Quoted from someone in Diary's blog ; - Chew on it doggies.
His assumptions are:
1) First time buyer so can buy directly from HDB, borrow from HDB, can get CPF grants, no need to pay resale levy.
2) Low income (he said $1K) so can qualify for maximum grants of $60K (AHG and SHG).
3) 2 room BTO flat which is going for around $90 - 95K (Fernvale Lea BTO).
You can do the sums. Price of flat $95K, minus $60K grants, means cost of flat to you is $35K.
Upfront cash outlay 10% or $3.5K, hopefully you have enough CPF savings or strike Toto. Remaining $31.5K, take HDB loan of 30 years.
Monthly loan payment about $130 (from HDB loan calculator). If you get CPF, CPF can can cover and you have some excess CPF for savings. If your $1K is nett pay, you pay out of pocket. For both cases, your take home pay is about $850.
See? QED. But don't talk about entertainment lah, go overseas holiday lah, watch movie lah, etc etc. Plus the flat will be located at some super ulu place with no market no hawker centre. Quality of life - BEST.
QUOTE:
"ALL have vested interests in properties...even those WITHOUT a property. Understand?"
ANON: March 02, 2012 4:25 PM
Wah! So talented!
Your argument so full of merits.
I must pause and reflect.
Then we also know to do in 2016! So simple. Sncé they love FTs so much we also replace them with FTs. The rotting system is falling apart!
I know long ago there are so many retards in govt. look st those idiots making all kinds of stupid stnt one after another! U still not convinced meh? Really langgar!
Earn $1000 a month can buy a flat ? You probably have to stinge on many other things, maybe even resort to eating leftovers at haweker centres ! ! The botak kong lan cheow wei
https://www.facebook.com/notes/heng-wei-chu/can-you-buy-a-flat-with-1000-monthly-income/441083299980
Cow and his pig farmers analogy may fuck up housing in SIN.
You can't build "with a heart" without finding people to pay into sellers( who are the exploiters here?)pockets who some are enjoying anther cherry from the COW DUNG.
The more you build, and logically, you have to GROW the population.
You have to build without farking up people's assets!
Aren't they different issues here? Albeit concerning the same ministry.
Q1) Can a $1k household income afford a hdb flat -> Affordability of housing for lower income
Q2) Should a $14k household income be eligible to buy from HDB -> Eligibility and entitlement of Singaporeans
Both are worthy of concern in their own right, but the writeup alludes more to Q2 whereas the title suggests that it is Q1 instead.
I think u should put ur real names here instead of identifying yourself as Anonymous. If you are so confident your views are good, you should put your real names here.
NSF is now 2 yrs and Reservist is now 10 cycles meaning if you serve reservist actively for 10 yrs you will be on the reserve list until 40.
Really kns... those have finished the above under the old scheme recently is not even rewarded.
@ Jony Ling
"I think u should put ur real names here instead of identifying yourself as Anonymous. If you are so confident your views are good, you should put your real names here."
The true meritocratic test of an idea or argument is being nameless.
So you cannot name drop and say my idea is valid because Einstein or LKY say so.
Hi Jony Ling, welcome to the blog. It is good that every blogger post with a nick and may still remain anonymous. It is easier to know which anonymous one is talking to. Better if it is the real name but that is a personal choice.
Singaporean poor are really lucky when those earning $12k and above cannot afford to buy a flat and those earning $1k can. No wonder PM said the world is envious of our poor people. It is better to be poor here than anywhere.
'For many Singaporeans, ‘affording’ a flat means emptying the CPF retirement savings. In the 29 Feb 2012 Straits Times report “CPF savings may not be enough for old age”, NMP Marry Liew cited LKY School of Public Policy economist Hui Weng Tat for showing that current CPF contribution rate is not sufficient for retirement even before considering CPF drain for property purchases.'
The above is copied from an article in YourstrulySingapore.
Any jokers planning that Sinkies must empty every cent they have to buy a flat and forget about the future and prudence is a rogue, irresponsible and killing our people. Now plead ignorant, how come CPF savings so much still not enough.
Where did the Sinkies CPF savings and other savings to go? To buy affordably priced flats that are prices to empty all their savings.
Worried parents worried no more. Your children will be able to afford to buy 2rm HDB flats with an income of $1000.
And those who worry about high medical cost, fear not. All you need is $8 for an open heart surgery.
Want to buy HDB flat so easy. Just make sure earn only $1000. Earn too much cannot buy. Go pay private developers. And old age no savings not govt problem. Make sure got minimum sum.
Swee boh?
I read some of the numbers given on this $1000 income buying a $100k 2rm flat. The $100k price is already a subsidised price mind you. The real market price could be $200k. So with $60k subsidies, the buyer only needs to pay $40k for a 2rm flat with a market price of $200k!
The net saving is $160k or 75% of the real value of the flat. Blimey, where on earth on such a good govt, selling a $200k flat for only $40k?
The poor are indeed very blessed.
Another world record, world record.
What is the real cost of building the flat? Anyone knows?
I would say "back of the envelope guessimate" about $10-15k per room.
eg 5 rm 50-75k
Wow, that is a shocking number if your guesstimate is close.
Got you Ivan. Everyone is entitled to speak his mind and everyone will assess where he is coming from or making sense. Obviously the anonymous you are referring to is an open book as far as his agenda is concerned.
Cheers: )
Anon 1.28pm - 'what's the big fuss abot serving NS ?' Please ask this Q to 35% president re his sons NS ???
Could this $1000 thing be like C class hospital beds, limited and need a stringent regime of means testing, and ended up, wait, none available. Go to the queue.
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