12/19/2014
NSmen no need to obey illegal orders – Judge
In a sweeping precedence setting ruling, District Judge Low Wee Ping made a judgement that NSFs ‘do not need to obey a manifestly illegal or unlawful order.’ This came about after the death of a NSman when the jeep he was in overturned. The driver was ordered to drive the jeep despite telling his superior that he did not have a driving lesson to drive class 3 vehicles.
The judge went further to order ‘lawyer Laurence Goh, a senior officer in the SAF, to get the message out that NSFs need not obey any order that is illegal or manifestly unlawful.’ How would this judgement affect the NSmen and regular soldiers when they are ordered by their superior to do something illegal?
An example that is waiting to happen is a ‘freak’ election and the soldiers ordered to take over the country to prevent a newly elected party to form the new govt. In such a situation, if a new political party is legitimately voted to power, and should someone decides to declare the election a ‘freak election’, not even a fraud election when no fraud is found, how would the soldiers react? How would the soldiers determine if the order is illegal and manifestly unlawful or otherwise?
What if the order comes from the incumbent Prime Minister who has lost the election or the incumbent President who is still constitutionally serving his term as the President? Who would decide whether the order is legal and lawful?
When such a situation becomes a reality, there will be judgement calls demanded on the soldiers to decide to obey and follow the order or to defy the order as being illegal and unlawful. It would be a difficult moment for the soldiers in charge even if a judge has made a ruling on illegal orders and make it known to all the soldiers.
Let’s hope Singapore would not have to face such a day and the soldiers would not have to be challenged by such an order and be put in a dilemma to choose between obeying an order and disobeying an illegal and unlawful order.
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26 comments:
We are slaves and we are 3rd class citizens. Period!
If the PAP were to be voted out in this coming GE and their kee chu generals and rear admirers were to order the SAF to stage a coup, why worry???
If the majority were to vote the PAPies out, then the majority of the Reservists and ORD NSFs are the ones who voted them OUT, they would be more afraid to recall us back.
After fully equipped, the rifles would be pointed at them.
Also, we can truly hold actual operation to secure all exit/escape points fir them to be fully accountable for any misdeeds if any.
So, do not think they will want to have this option.
Remember a Filipino colonel Hossan not Leong or Loon who had the courage6 to defile the generals and stage a countercoup.
"Orders are orders" excuse did not save the Nazi generals from execution during the Nuremberg trials of Nazi war criminals after World War Two.
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Superior orders, often known as the Nuremberg defense, lawful orders or by the German phrase "Befehl ist Befehl" ("orders are orders"), is a plea in a court of law that a person, whether a member of the armed forces or a civilian, not be held guilty for actions which were ordered by a superior officer or a public official.
The superior orders plea is often regarded as the complement to command responsibility.
One of the most noted uses of this plea, or "defense", was by the accused in the 1945–46 Nuremberg Trials, such that it is also called the "Nuremberg defense".
The Nuremberg Trials were a series of military tribunals, held by the main victorious Allied forces after World War II, most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, and economic leadership of the defeated Nazi Germany.
It was during these trials, under the London Charter of the International Military Tribunal which set them up, that the defense of superior orders was no longer considered enough to escape punishment; but merely enough to lessen punishment.
SOURCE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders
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Generals:
Don't say we never tell you hor.
According to what you quoted, it only says NSFs do not need to obey any order that is illegal or manifestly unlawful.
If what is quoted is true ,then it does not include regular.Regulars are happy soldiers and will comply to order without hesitation.
As such you must hope for more NSmen than regulars.
Being the case we must stop giving the impression that NS is a waste of time .We should instead encourage Sinkies to serve NS and even volunteer for military services after ORD.
NS is good .
The upper hand advantage of citizens soldiers is they can upheld the rights of own fellow citizens and comrades when injustice is served on them.
Regular professional soldiers are no difference from mercenaries who obeyed their paymasters without question.
Like to say first that National Service aka Conscription is against Basic Human Right. Since Sinkies are NOT AGAINST NS, I think THEY WILL OBEY ORDERS BLINDLY, AFTER ALL THE PAP REGIME COMPRISES MOST TOP MILITARY COMMANDERS. THERE MUST BE A PURPOSE IN THERE.
DAFT SHALL REMAINS DAFT WHETHER AS LAY CITIZENS OR SOLDIERS, THE LATTER IS DEFINITELY MORE DAFT IN MY OPINION.
patriot
Patriot.Be proud to be a Sinkie and given the privilege to serve in NS.
It shows one is physically and mentally fit.
We should encourage NS.
To Agongkia
You are one EXEMPLARY BLIND SINKIE.
Your pride is worth how much compare to one full of patriotism?
patriot
Enlisting Sporean males into so called scdf for fire fighting, driving ambulances, and also into police force for 2 years of their prime and many many disruptions and time wastage in reservists training/ ippt/rt is getting unpopular with the new generation of voters, gen y,z. Which country force their countrymen into camps every years re-training on how to fire fight and other police trainings?
Even military enlisting though debated on its necessity the armed forces may find it difficult to fill up the numbers with regular needed for self-defence. But why scdf and spf need to have enlistment also? Why pap force us to become fire fighters,ambulance drivers, policemen against our will when it can be outsourced like pest-extermination function used to be done the govt?
There is no reason why fire-fighting and ambulance services cannot be outsourced? PAP is really making a mockery out of our citizenry. Conscripts only when there is real need to do so.Unnecessary conscription would disadvantage the local in view of the influx of the hundreds of thousands of non-citizens who are competing with us in jobs, education, medical care and housing
@ the dystopian future of Singapore, redbean:
>> Let’s hope Singapore would not have to face such a day and the soldiers would not have to be challenged by such an order and be put in a dilemma to choose between obeying an order and disobeying an illegal and unlawful order.
I seriously doubt our military guys would turn their guns on their fellow UNARMED citizens. Redbean, you obviously have NO CLUE about Singaporeans and shame on you for holding your fellow cuntreemen in such low regard.
Occasionally military superiors will give "manifestly illegal" orders, because the chain of command is of such a nature that a low rank does not challenge a higher rank. So you are going to get cock ups--ISOLATED INCIDENTS of one-on-one--occasionally.
However, to expect entire platoons or brigades to obey "manifestly illegal" orders is a completely different kettle of fish.
Context lah, uncle. Context.
enforcing conscription for the sake of conscription, is the abuse of mandate by the government. The instillment of military discipline to control the males population thru.conscription could be the real purpose which is done in one-party /communist state like Burma North Korea.
anon 12.55
Be grateful if you are enlisted in the scdf or spf.
You are trained in this profession to care for life and property and have the privilege to become a security guard after your NS
or when you retire ,without the need to go for security training as you can be exempted.
Not every NSmen are so lucky.
@patriot.
Patriotism come in many form.
Bottom line is country first.
Singapore needs to move forward to a real democracy like HongkongTaiwanAustraliaSouthKoreaNewzealand. PAP's control of the people thru. unnecessary conscription, control over unions, control over the media, of controls in the unis, would be marking their 50 years of control 2015. Do you really think that PAP can bring us to the next level of democratic progress? That implies that PAP would be giving up its control over the unions, giving up its control the press, giving up its control over the populace thru military/police/scdf, conscription, giving up its control of the university, giving up its control of your blood and sweat life- saving C P F . It will never happen one!!
Green field-packs for army boys, black field-packs for fire fighters, blue field-packs for police boys. When open mob report full battle/police/firefighting rescue gear. Why the need and always the heightened sense of emergency? Because the whole thing and the objective is a form of control over us isn't it?
War Criminals Execution Footage, Germany, '44 - '46 (Youtube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTZl5vKgaoA
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Simple, fast & efficient.
The demand by the Temasek bus companies to increase fares is ETHICALLY and MORALLY UNLAWFUL. Alot of Singaporeans are rejecting it already as seen on many social media platforms. Instead we should demand RIGHTLY AND JUSTLY the decrease of fare.
It does matter who is the minister of transport, last time raymond lim today lui tuck you tomorrow xyz, the socially unlawful demand for more moeny via higher bus taxi fares will NOT change. we have witnessed already
pai seh correction 4.24
it does NOT matter who is the minister of transport, last time raymond lim, today lui tuck you, tomorrow xyz, the socially unlawful demands for more moeny via higher bus taxi fares will NOT change, it will not stop. we have witnessed it already.
CASE came out to comment on school buses BUT dare touch on temasek buses' unlawful demand
These agencies:ptc/case/competition commission are not independent at all. What is wrong with the system here????
Unless GLC company can do no wrong how is CASE going to criticise them without fear or prejudice if there are PAP MPs inside case. One is government link company, and other is CASE staffed with by PAP mps. There is conflict of interest here when dealing with issue arising from govt link company like the fare hike now.
Please lah, Singapore public transport fares are still cheap. Cabs have gone up, but prices are still way reasonable compared to other DEVELOPED cities.
For a densely populated city, Singapore's transport system is not bad lah. Sure it's expensive with the road taxes and ERP, but so what? At least the damn thing works, with a few minor glitches now and then.
What is lawful or unlawful? The burning of witches and cruxification of Jesus were once considered lawful.
Forced labour or conscription is also not lawful in the constitution. How come no one challenge?
Law is created by the rulers to protect the rich.
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