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12/08/2006

when foreign talents say you are silly

I was trying to be less critical when I read the two letters in the Today's paper written by two foreign talents. But Chia Hern Keng pulled no punches by nailing where the fault was and calling a cat a cat. The contents of the two letters were distinctly arrogant and patronising to all Singaporeans. Humiliating too. Singaporeans were a bunch of useless administrators that could not even run a company. They rather that all the companies be managed by their foreign talent bosses who were real talent and effective managers. And without them, the foreign talents, like I repeated subtlely in my posts yesterday, Singapore is doomed. They are our saviours. Basically in the eyes of the foreigners we are all thrash, probably all the way from the top to the bottom. That is why they have the audacity to demand that we treat them special or more equal than citizens. Again all the Singaporeans took the verbal thrashing quietly and meekly. And Singaporeans deserve it if they think they are useless. And probably Singaporeans by now also believe that they are thrash and of lesser talent than the foreign talents. The foreign talents seriously and sincerely believe that they are better than Singaporeans and that Singaporeans should make way for them. Now whose fault is it? Chia Hern Keng said it plainly, without mincing words. 'We have only ourselves to blame as a nation. For if our own national institutions do not accord sufficient respect through its policies to our own citizenry, it is hard for foreigners to do the same.' In other words if we keep praising the foreigners and telling our people that they are dumb, then this is exactly the consequence. Your guests will come into your house and tell you that you are silly. And better still, you just smile and say thank you.

40 comments:

Anonymous said...

See. Redbean, now u know why gov never let FT in government because FT will make the dumber look even dumber.

Anonymous said...

Another idiotic comment. I guess it takes one dumbo to recognise another, yeah ? This is precisely the reason why all that ever comes out of blogs like this is fart gas. You people are totally not credible.

redbean said...

one of the most important function of blogs is that it allows people to fart. otherwise everyone will be poisoned by fart gas that has no outlet to escape.

but then again, fart gas comes in all forms and in all places. the only place that has no fart gas is in parliament house. the good thing about fart gas is that the producer never thinks that it smells. only other people's fart gas smells : )

Anonymous said...

> good thing about fart gas is that the producer never thinks that it smells.

Haha, speak for yourself, pea brain. Only pot-smoking dimwits like you and your fellow idiotic commentators think so.

gecko said...

Why does anonymous hide behind in the veneer of shadows?

By virtue of his anonymity, is anonymous not credible in his very words uttered?

Yes, indeed, blogs are not credible but those who are anonymous cowards are even more so.

redbean said...

hi gecko,

some are fed to do a job. and that's not too bad as a mercenary.

some doing it hoping to be fed.

Anonymous said...

anonymous dec.08,2006 9;56am,..
is your master impress?can connect me to ur master,,,i 'm sick n tired of tis kind of life...trust me, i can also carry out such shameful job, and do my best to be as hyprocrisy as you,.......

.....redbean, what you know?? you only know how to sell your redbean.......you are worst than a
coconut......you are the greatest fool......you better not fart again otherwise.........

Anonymous said...

Tsk tsk such shallow-mindedness. Just because I espouse views that are not in keeping with the blog owner and his band of anti-government merry-men makes me a government ass kisser ? For your info, losers, I am my own master. I answer to no one and I certainly have no need to be a government ass kisser to earn a living. Why ? Because I choose to help myself and stand on my own two feet rather than be a bunch of losers sitting on their asses all day long whining about a government that for the msot part has gotten more things right than wrong. You people think it's easy to run the country, why don't you offer yourself as candidates and see if even the nutcases at IMH will vote for you.

Anonymous said...

Oh, and Anon December 08, 2006 1:09 PM, your feeble attempt at sarcasm is absolutely pathetic. Oh, I forgot it's the school holidays. Don't you have to attend remedial tuition classes to make sure you don't have to repeat Primary for the third succesive year next year, little boy ? Didn't your parents ever told you not to try and run before you can even walk ?

redbean said...

hi everyone,

ok lah, tickle and agitate a little but no need to get too personal at one another.

there will always be people on different sides of an issue. imagine that everone just say aye, aye, like in parliament? then it becomes very boring.

opposing views, after filtering out the heat and emotions, you might discover some sariras.

gecko said...

Anon 1.34pm:

Why do you react so strongly to mere words that the blog owner and his 'band of anti-govt merry men' utter? No one has implied that you are a govt ass-kisser; nor has anyone implied that running a govt is easy. Perhaps your seemingly hot-tempered response is an indicator of the inclinations you possess.

Is dissent disloyalty? Does disagreement and disapproval mean that we do not acknowledge the achievements of the establishment?

Almost always, we see the words of others through selective lenses. Almost always, we never get the exact meaning the author intended but a mere approximation of it.

Do you choose to view the words of others as a divide between us-and-them? Or do you seek to understand why there exists a divide in thinking?

We extend you an invitation - to read the words espoused here with an open mind. The folks who write here are, in real life, peace-loving and nation-loving folks who wish betterment for fellow Singaporeans. Do you agree with this at least? Or do you refuse to bridge a seeming-divide between your beliefs and 'ours'?

redbean said...

hi gecko and anonymous,

in a blog, we welcome all views, for or against. what is important is to get a discussion/argument going based on reasons rather than on emotions.

going by the latter, the end result is hurling abuses at one another which is very unhealthy.

and for anonymous, if you read through the postings of everyone here you will find that people may be critical but not really abusives. abusive people will not only reflect badly on themelves but also on the side that they try to defend.

an example is the wp supporters case in sammyboy. they reflected very badly on the wp. or are you some opposition supporter pretending to be pap supporters but actually casting a bad light on the pap? if pap supporters go around abusing bloggers and attacking them indiscriminatingly, it definitely will reflect badly on pap as well.

i am not sure which side you are representing.

Anonymous said...

Imagine a Singapore without FTs. It will be a sewer where the locals will be running around like headless chickens. Without Fts, Singapore will be a nothing island. It will go downhill into nothingness. All the economic gains of the last 45 years would dwindle into nothing. The Singaporeans are just too untalented to be able to climb out of the sewer.

So, please be grateful to all the FTs for getting you to where you are today. Don't knock it, we might just pack our bags and leave. Then you will be in the shit.

Say thank you to us while you are at it.

redbean said...

thank you for the enlightment.

Anonymous said...

maybe because singapore has people like the author of this blog who is not that smart?

abao said...

We do need foreigners here, as it is true that Singapore needs foreigners to do jobs that Singaporeans are unable to do as shown below:

http://yawningbread.org/arch_2006/yax-680.htm

But should foreigners whine and complain that their rights are not equal to citizens? In the first place, these foreigners do not intend to stay for the long run. When the circumstances change, they will be the first to go. In this case, why should we put them as equals to citizens?

Moreover, from the style of writing shown by Anonmyous December 08, 2006 1:47 PM, this should be considered as attacking the person (“对人不对事”). When commenting on points, we should critise the thing, not the person...

redbean said...

hi anonymous,

my apologies to all my bloggers. all those who are here are not so smart. including me.

would you still be here?

amen.

Love said...

Moreover, from the style of writing shown by Anonmyous December 08, 2006 1:47 PM, this should be considered as attacking the person (“对人不对事”). When commenting on points, we should critise the thing, not the person
-------------------------
allow me to resay it again,,Abao n all reader here, if you read all over carefully from start(keep an open mind,stay neutral)de above is not only attacking the person..unless he is coconut.

dec,08 2006, 1;47pm,, listen here u think u are smart that u can cheat. u better do ur home-work b4 u take-off.......

redbean said...

hi all,

a little sarcasm is ok. i think i have all the time been sarcastic too. but i try my best to avoid attacking a person. when someone attacks me, then i needle him/her a little in reply. but we should not let it get too far and become too personal. then it will no longer be a discussion or an exchange of views.

hey its the weekend man.

Anonymous said...

I think we should replace LHL and LKY with foreign talents.

They have done their part and now is the age to let the foreigners build our nation for us.

Maybe we should also divide Singapore Island into 8 parts, like the old Shanghai. We can then choose the foreigners that we admire most to govern us: the french, the british, the americans and don't forget the finns!

The smartest Singaporeans are those that just sit around and allow the stupid foreigners to work for us mah.

redbean said...

your suggestions are innovative. really.

but please don't say our foreign talents stupid and expect them to work for us. that is a little unkind. we must value talent for what they are.

we shall extend an olive branch to all the foreign talents and prosper together. they happy we happy, all happy.

everyone also know how to say win win.

Kaffein said...

To: Anonymous, December 08, 2006

STFU.

'Nuff said.

---
To the blog author:
Thanks for the insight. I totally agree that no one bats an eyelid on the benefits a citizen receives when I visit other countries.

Yet this is an issue in our country.

A good example is the EU. I can't even work there now, unless I have some very specialized skill that they require and cannot find it within the EU.

Only Singapore is dumb enough not to protect their own citizens.

Globalization? Too flippantly used by politicians.

redbean said...

hi kaffein,

welcome to the blog.

we are just discussing about issues concerning our country. people will only feel strongly about them when they are affected and have seen how it affects people negatively.

those who are not affected will see it in a different light. and these are not a right and wrong thing. there is nothing absolute about them but very subjective at times.

singapore is perhaps the only country that think this way and the govt has it reasons to do so. but the people who are affected have their rights to feel unhappy too.

Anonymous said...

Kaffein ? Are you sure it isn't pot that you're taking ? You've answered your very own question. You can't work in the EU because you don't have a skill that they require. If you are talented, you won't find a problem getting an employer to sponsor your work visa. So just because you can't work in the EU, that's a case for Singapore to also adopt a similar stance ? In case you have just realized, how big is the EU and how big is Singapore ? The EU can shut their doors to non-European citizens and still survive. Can the same be said about Singapore ?

redbean said...

personally i have no quarrels with foreigners working here. but as a citizen, it is my right to speak out on things that affect me. and no one, not even the govt needs to be bothered about what i said. life goes on.

this is what freedom of speech is all about as long as i do not attack or libel anyone in particular. and definitely there is nothing wrong if i praise someone sky high even if i don't believe in it : )

Kaffein said...

To: Anonymous, December 08, 2006

Do you have a family? Do you have kids to feed? If not, stfu. One word of advice - grow up*.

*unless you belong to the elite, in which you better stfu.

(before you comment further, read below)

---
>>Kaffein ? Are you sure it isn't pot that you're taking ? You've answered your very own question. You can't work in the EU because you don't have a skill that they require.

Tell me, one-who-wished-to-remain-anonymous, anyone who has a uber-specialized skill go places, let alone EU, which consists of 25 countries.

What are the chances anyone of us have the 1 skill that is so sought after.

So my point is EU protects its own - finding a resource within EU to fill a position before elsewhere.

Singapore? Foreign=Talent, that's the crux.

And for your measure, I am working in an MNC and you can consider me lower-upper/upper-middle status. If there is even such a stupid meritocratic status et all.

>> If you are talented, you won't find a problem getting an employer to sponsor your work visa. So just because you can't work in the EU, that's a case for Singapore to also adopt a similar stance ?

Since I don't have the one specialized skill that the world desperate needs (perhaps 0.01%?), I admit I belong to the other 6.6 billion. I think many of you fall into this category.

So unless SG says they are paying 1 mil to the specialized skill becoz they don't have that skill, I'm fine.

But when the same job can be filled by a local (which in my experience works better becoz he knows the processes), it doesn't make sense for the government to push for FT.

>>In case you have just realized, how big is the EU and how big is Singapore ? The EU can shut their doors to non-European citizens and still survive.

I have never said we should shut the doors to FT. FT is good, but when the government gives desperate measures just to get the FT in, I will be vocal.

>> Can the same be said about Singapore ?

Yes. We've been doing that for years. This globalization thingy is just a political ploy. Globalization has existed for ages, even during Roman Empire period.

All it needs is a creative, passionate government with a heart. Not the mercenary, inc .co, where bottom dollar is all that matters.

Take for an example the ASEAN games. Do you think I feel honored and excited when Tao Li (congrats to her winning anyway) won?

It was a joke. No pride. Get real, SG.

But if Shamsudin the SG referee gets the best referee award in World Cup, I will celebrate.

Or Joscelin Yeo, even.

Do you see the difference?

--
I apologize for the strong words, but:
1. You seem to be very critical without valid points but purely for the sake of a flamewar.
2. You may be a FT for all I care. Perhaps the gahmen is dumber than I think.
3. Put a name behind your words. Else, stfu.

redbean said...

hi kaffein,

thanks for the comments. in a blog like this there will always be people who come in to flame with one or two words to provoke.

a blog is for discussions even for differences in views. and i enjoy all views that are logical and sound. but when i tested a blogger a few time and realise that he is here to flame, i just ignore him. no need to waste time. talk to reasonable people.

remember, just ignore and they will find that they are just barking in cyberspace. talk to them only if they deserve talking to.

cheers.

Anonymous said...

Yikes, my apologies. I think it's not pot that you're taking, maybe amphetamine ? No, perhaps it's the current craze Subutex. Have you ever been in a position where you've had to choose to recruit a Singaporean and a foreigner ? If not, you're the one who should shut the fuck up. I have been, many times in fact because I am an employer. I just had this case of a Singaporean dickhead who believes he should command a 3k salary just because he graduated from aNUS university. The alternative was a slightly more experienced Indian chap who's willing to accept 2.6k. Plus this chap does not have to be excused for 3 weeks every year to go to some holiday camp, idling around while I still have to pay his CPF. The choice is clear. My conscience is also clear. I am under no obligation to employ a Singaporean just because my company operates in Singapore, when a better alternative is available.

Anonymous said...

Just to add, what is it with Singaporeans bragging about working in MNCs. Do you guys get off by declaring that ? What's the big deal anyway, because you're still an employee. When that MNC decides to go offshore, and I assure you it's just a matter of time before they will, you'll be thrown off into the street ? Big deal.

redbean said...

everyone has his comparative advantage and disadvantage. singaporeans have many comparative advantage, well educated in some of the best schools and universities and fairly reliable and trustworthy. of course no all lah.

but when comes to employment in his own country, there are more comparative disadvantage than advantage. you said it, his national service liabilities, his cost of education and his cost to live a decent life and the cost of his home etc.

compare to the sea of poverty around us, many are hungry and the cost of bringing them up and their education is minimal compare to that of a singaporean. and there are millions out there who will outbid a singaporean in cost.

if there is no conscious policy by the govt, singaporeans will be driven out of their own country as they are no longer competitive. even some hungry europeans will be prepared to come and take their place. but the competition will be mainly from the poorer countries.

any employer who thinks business, profit margin and cost, and given the availability of cheaper labour, will give singaporeans a miss.

so it has to be a govt policy to level the playing field. i cannot believe that our govt will do nothing on this and think that it can go on and win the hearts and minds of the citizens.

redbean said...

kaffein,

you shouldn't leave just because of some flammers. just ignore and don't reply to them. there are many good bloggers here who appreciate a good discussion.

just choose the people who will talk like people.

for those who are bent on flaming, please don't. you are all welcome to chat, but if your intention is otherwise, there are many places to go to.

many thanks.

redbean said...

hi kaffein and all my friends,

in all blogs there will be agitators and provocateurs to try to mess up the blog for whatever hidden agenda. the last thing we should do is to let them succeed. and mind them, they can be traced if needed to.

in this blog there are some who pretend that they are pro govt and trying to attack bloggers who have critical views. actually they may not be pro govt but trying to cause more hatred against the govt by attacking innocent bloggers.

they are trying to create a very bad impression of the govt, telling innocent bloggers that this is what pro govt people are. so when they attack anyone, those attacked will become more furious with the govt.

we really do not know who is who. our govt is above board and does not need to plant such people to cause mischiefs. or it will badly damage its reputation when one of them squealed.

Kaffein said...

Redbean, can you please delete my previous 2 repeated posts? Something went wrong during posting.

Anyway, I have also edited my thoughts out properly. Here is what I wanted to bring forth, without insulting anyone.

---
Sorry Redbean if it had dived into a flamewar. So this will probably be my last comment.

Anyway, good thoughts there.

---
To Anonymous 8 Dec:
>>Have you ever been in a position where you've had to choose to recruit a Singaporean and a foreigner ? If not, you're the one who should shut the fuck up.

*sigh* If I didn't, would I bother to bring this up?

>>I have been, many times in fact because I am an employer. I just had this case of a Singaporean dickhead who believes he should command a 3k salary just because he graduated from aNUS university.

This is the perception of the government sells of NUS/NTU or SG academic students/honor students. After studying for so many years in which subjects have mostly NO use in work-life, I can understand why that NUS graduate turned out to be a DH.

More often I'd prefer poly students who are more level-headed (less airy) and after working for few years most will tend to take degree after. Makes them more mature in thinking.

And yes they make better leaders and employees. And I also agree, the NUS guy is a dickhead.

>> The alternative was a slightly more experienced Indian chap who's willing to accept 2.6k.

I would be too. Many factors, not only salary-wise (as cited above), I'll be a dumbass if I don't offer the Indian FT.

But isn't this what we are arguing/discussing about? We are discussing job opportunities - local vs FT right?

If there isn't such a drive to bring in FT, the NUS guy will have landed the job, and probably fired later for being such a noob?

The point is there *IS* a local who can fit in the job description right? Of course now you have an alternative and that's precisely my point.

The FT will take your offer. So where does the NUS guy go?

>>Plus this chap does not have to be excused for 3 weeks every year to go to some holiday camp, idling around while I still have to pay his CPF.

I rest my case about local vs FT. Locals are not complaining about FTs. Locals are lamenting the government does not understand the plight of its citizens. NS is one of them. But that will be a different topic.

>> The choice is clear. My conscience is also clear. I am under no obligation to employ a Singaporean just because my company operates in Singapore, when a better alternative is available.

Of course, I follow the same mindset when I hire. I'm under no obligation. Yet again i stress - I'm not complaining about FT or foreign investors, companies setting up here. I'm saying the gvrmt takes its citizens for granted.

Wasn't it the ready-made infrastructure, the pool of talents that attracted the investors, not just only the slew of benefits the gvrmt gives for foreigners? Who contributed to the infrastructure? Your company wasn't even there in the first place! Or was it the locals who contributed, directly or indirectly for many years?

Put yourself in our shoes (I assume you are a FT) for once. Why come here to setup and then offer the job to others? It's akin to building my house for a foreigner to come and live, instead of my children.

That's what I'm trying to say - the gvrmt makes it so good for FT to get hired, then where do locals go?

Yet the gvrmt accuses those who leave as 'quitters'. So wtf?

>>Just to add, what is it with Singaporeans bragging about working in MNCs. Do you guys get off by declaring that ? What's the big deal anyway, because you're still an employee.

I'm not bragging. I'm trying to inform you and the readers that I do understand the globalization thingy, with worldwide branches. It was never intended to be a bragging point. I also wanted to let the readers know that I'm not some disgruntled poor man cussing the gvrmt that I have no job. I am doing well matter of fact.

However, this globalization thingy is over-rated. Like I've said, a political ploy in bringing in FT, at the expense of locals.

>> When that MNC decides to go offshore, and I assure you it's just a matter of time before they will, you'll be thrown off into the street ? Big deal.

Everybody is liable. No big deal. Happens in most MNC - hire and fire, open offices and wind up overnight. But what is your point I don't get it.

Anyway, for the readers' info - in Philippines there is a labour law to convert a contract staff to perm after working 6 months in a company?

Here in Singapore, I've seen the contract staff working for at least 2 years before converting to perm. So what is my Ministry of Manpower doing? Even expecting mothers are discriminated with not much rights. So why am I paying taxes for? Ministers' million dollar salaries?

---
Well, it happened when you started insulting locals with your flippant comments. As much as I dislike the way how the government is handling the employement policies, and also some arrogant locals, I do respect and honor my fellow Singaporeans.

You may have met one DH. It doesn't mean everyone is a DH/Dumbass.

Just like George Bush's initiation into Iraq war does not equal all Americans are agree with him.

Cheers.

Kaffein said...

A good read here on locas vs FT:
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/12/10/focus/16268854&sec=focus

Cheers.

redbean said...

ok, done.

redbean said...

hi kaffein,

chiangnee is a veteran in journalism. his article can also be read from his site, littlespeck.com provided in my link.

cheers

Anonymous said...

Until our gov themselves get outsource and replaced by FT, they shouldn't talk about BSCRAP. Outsource gov ?? Why not, they can replace us with FT, and think FT can do better job and better value for money, why not gov ?? Our gov has been a great liability now in terms of salary, performance and stupidity.

Why pay these gov DH so much money for easy way out policy ???

redbean said...

outsource the govt? i think that is a good idea. then we will know what it is like to be the singaporean diaspora all over the world.

an indian or chinese diapora is recognisable and will not be lost. a singaporean diaspora will not last a generation. and so will singapore if we outsource the govt or outsource our citizens.

we stand to lose everything if we change the constitution of the people mix too quickly and drastically. at the moment we can still call ourselves singaporeans. but if we are not careful we may become something else and the original singaporeans could become strangers in their homeland and force to become quitters.

remember haw par brothers and all the things they built? once the foreigners took it over, they will tear it to pieces.

Anonymous said...

Don't worry Redbean, Singapore's gov has always been flexible and adaptable to the laymen but not to themselves. When bad times, they keep their salary and even increase, and in good time, the increase is even amazing.

Because of globalization, the gov should market Singapore better by having name change. Why not rename Singapore as Globapore. Globapore implies that PAP can leerupt the world rather just in Singapore only. And they will be the richest gahmen in the whole of universe.

redbean said...

no lah, cannot anyhow accuse people of bad things like that. my apologies to all on your behalf.

afterwards people accuse you of not being credible and they will be right.

must discuss rationally lah.