Alibaba – The Chinese have arrived

After all the sneering, doubting and badmouthing, the dusk has settled. Alibaba, owned by Jack Ma, a nondescript Chinese man who would not get a second look by anyone on the street, has launched a successful IPO in New York Exchange with a record IPO opening price and record gains on the first day of trading. At an issue price of US$68, it opened at US$92.70 and hit a high of US$99.70 before profit takings set in to close at US$93.89. The closing price would put Jack Ma in the company of Bill Gates and Warrant Buffet, among the richest man in the world.

The rich communists’ day has arrived. The Chinese have arrived in the form of Alibaba. Times are changing and the stereotyping of poor Chinese immigrants and cooks would be retired to a bygone era. The confidence in Chinese stocks and enterprises would regain some credibility after some dramatic failures in the recent past. Alibaba is seen as the real thing, a very profitable company in a rapidly growing economy. No American investors with some money would want to miss this wagon like how the West was won.

A few more Chinese companies in the same genre as Alibaba would likely help to reinforce the value of investing in Chinese stocks. But along the way there are bound to be some jokers that would come and go to ruffle the confidence of investors.

Alibaba was so big that it eclipsed all interest in the launch of iphone 6 on the same day. Wall Street held a live roundtable telecast with its top crew talking non stop for more than 2 hours on the early opening hours of NYSE. The listing of Alibaba was delayed by nearly 3 hours as the opening price was deemed too high and they were scrambling to bring it lower on fear of creating a bubble. Nonetheless it still opened very high and closed higher.

Jack Ma and his Alibaba suddenly become the darlings of the American investors for the day. Many just could not believe what they saw and were scrambling for more. The biggest company in value listed on the American stock exchange is Chinese.

Kopi Level - Yellow


Anonymous said...

As a Chinese, I'm happy that Alibaba and Jack ma is doing well.
But I raise the red flag of caution.
Alibaba and Jack ma do well ... so what?
They are not going to share it with you and me.
Just because Alibaba and Jack Ma do well does not mean Chinese people will do well.

Just like Lee Kuan Yew and PAP.
They do well ... so what?
Just because Lee Kuan Yew and PAP do well does not mean Singaporeans will do well.

Don't be conned by Chinese leaders.
We have a 5,000 year history of self serving Chinese leaders.
They free themselves from poverty but they enslave the people.

Find me a Chinese leader that does this after they get rich:

Or this:

Hopefully, I am wrong.
And can be correctly accused of being a pseudo ang moh.
Or I am right.
And you are an armchair Chinaman ... longing for a Chinese culture and values that have already been long destroyed in the Cultural Revolution.
I sincerely hope you are right and I am wrong.

Anonymous said...

RedBean, the success story of Jack Ma brings into focus one huge difference between the wisdom of recent Chinese leaders and the wisdom of sinkieland leadership or lack of it!

The BIG difference between China's late paramount leader Deng Xiao Ping's succession planning and old man's is the wisdom of Deng in recognising the follies of the ancient Chinese dynastic system and the harm it can potentially bring to the Chinese scoiety's modernisation efforts, process and progress.

Deng did not anoint his son, Deng Pu Fang as his future successor. He chose Hu Jin Tao instead.

Whose son is now leading a dynastic system in sinkieland?

The wisdom of Deng in this aspect likely would take China far into the future.

The wisdom of old man in this aspect or the lack of it could lead sinkieland into abyss in the future?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Anon 10:47, I do not see myself being right or you being wrong when you tried to link this to you or me benefitting from it. That is too far fetch to even thought about.

And as a general rule, it is pure stupidity to think of trying to benefit from other people by association or ball licking.

I have heard this advice given to corporate climbers to stick to the rich and successful, and hoping to gain something out of it, if not some crumbs on the floor. The adviser did not add the truth.

To get something from another person in this way is not simply licking balls. Not so simple. One would need to open legs as well if one wants to be given a chicken rump stick.

The success of Jack Ma is good in the sense that the domination of the West is diminishing and the distribution of wealth and resources, influence and power will be share more evenly by the rest of the world, not just by American and Europe. But this will still take decades to come to a new balance and a new rennaisance.

Don't harbour the thought of gaining anything personally from this event or from anyone. Depend on your self for your own well being.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Yes, the Chinese came only to learn the good things. They did not want to learn about handing power from father to son. Not holding on to power like in the past when their leaders were old and feeble. We taught them to keep renewing their leadership and not to allow any oldie to hold on to power. They learnt.

They also learnt to be thrifty. They don't pay their leaders not to be corrupt or out of this world's salary. They are going after corruption, legal or otherwise, seriously, right to the top.

The Chinese are not stupid or else they would not be able to transform themselves in a mere 40 years to challenge the Americans in every field. They only learn what is good for them.

Anonymous said...

"Depend on your self for your own well being."
RB 11:03 am

100% tiok. That's why smart Sinkies have lots of money and they don't kpkb about PAP.

Except when there is money, eg kopi money, to be made.


Anonymous said...

There must be good reasons why "Alibaba – The Chinese have arrived".

Just as there must be good reasons why "Sinkie opposition - They are not ready to be govt"

Anonymous said...

The fact that Jack Ma succeeds point to one possibility - that the other 80% to 90% of the Chinese masses also can succeed. One big intangible attribute that keeps human going since time immemorial - HOPE!

It is the system.

Jack Ma represent the main street, the masses.

He is not kee chiu, mai hum or mobortan!

He did not come with a golden spoon.

He is not armed with 3 stars or 2 stars or 1 star.

He represents hope for the masses.

An ordinary boy who moonlighted for free as a tour guide to American tourists to improve his English during his younger days.

A student who went to one of the "worstest" colleges in China to complete his degree and became an ordinary school teacher in English.

He taught English for almost a decade before he quited his teaching job in 1995 to make his foray into web site designing when he knew nuts about "HTML" programming, much less "JAVA" and "C" language.

He did well but was outmaneuver by big corporate big wits.

In the end, he left the big cities and settled in ZheJiang where he started Alibaba with about 20 pals and ex colleagues with about 50,000 RMB.

His entire business conglomerate focuses on predominantly small businesses.

In Alibaba, Jack Ma amd his team focuses in helping small businesses find buyers for their wares, merchandise, produce etc in the B2B platform.

In Tao Bao, it is helping more than 8 million small business owners in the B2C business model.

Jack Ma set up Alipay at high risk and costs to overcome the deficiency in the Chinese financial payment system especially in the areas of small businesses transactions.

Jack Ma's success brings HOPE to the more than 85% of commoners in China.

Who can bring HOPE to the more than 80% of the masses in sinkieland?

Pls kee chiu?

Anonymous said...

RB, tiok, tiok. Keep talking and make the Sinkies stop thinking that if they be good sheep other people will take good care of them. The Sinkies must be taught to act and do for their own good. Don't everytime think how to benefit from other people's success.

Just do it yourself lah. Rely on yourself not on others. Erase that kind of thoughts for good.

Anonymous said...

"Jack Ma represent the main street, the masses."
Anon 11:23 am

In that case, ordinary Sinkies also represent the main street, the masses what.

How come no Jack Ma among them hah?

Or is it the ordinary Sinkie masses is too small, as compared to China?

And which is the reason why PAP want and need lots of ordinary, or worse, foreigners to supplement the Sinkie masses?

Anonymous said...

Good and bad lah.

Although there are no Jack Mas among Sinkies, there are also no Yang Yins among Sinkies too.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11.30am. // In that case, ordinary Sinkies also represent the main street, the masses what.

How come no Jack Ma among them hah? //

Sinkieland no jack ma but have Char Tao, Kee Chiu ........

Both also from ordinary families.

Jack Ma chose to serve the masses by helping small businesses in B2B and B2C platforms ecommerce.

Char Tao and Kee Chiu chose to serve the masses by helping the imperial court to make sure the masses stay within OB markers.

Sinkieland have Jack Ma's background type but NOT the same place as far as the heart is concerned.

Anonymous said...

Did Jack Ma share his business idea with the PAP government?
Could a $2 PAP company succeed like Jack Ma and Alibaba?

Matilah_Singapura said...

On must consider that western freedoms -- of expression, ideas and enterprise plays a HUGE PART in Jack Ma's success.

If he continued his enterprise in ancient Asian/ Chinese "style", he'd be selling backside in Kowloon's Potland/ Argyle streets area. And because he is 50, the backside won't be commanding high prices ;-)

I am a long time customer of Alibaba -- over 10 years already. Jack Mah has THE BALLS to be completely NUT-BALLS CRAZY in a culture which reveres tradition and cultural values. He just doesn't give a shit about what people think of him -- he just goes for it, no pan chan, mo tuck ting. He doesn't follow anyone nor any one else's set of "rules" -- he leads, and also inspires. But the best part: he helps others create and increase their wealth meaning, Jack Ma, through Alibaba creates HUGE VALUE for others and earns regular free cash flow because of it.

Anonymous said...

Exponential: Ebola Cases Now Double Every 3 Weeks; CDC Warns As Many As Half A Million May Be Infected Soon


Calling Gan Kim Yong and other PAP Millionaire ministers.
What are Singapore's contingency plans?

Anonymous said...

A culture does not live 5000 years for nothing. The Chinese are by nature hardworking and entrepreneurial. However, rich Chinese are not as rever as wise Chinese throughout history. The Chinese only give the Highest Respects to Folks with ultimate propriety, wholesomeness and respectability.

Anonymous said...

The Chinese only give the Highest Respects to Folks with ultimate propriety, wholesomeness and respectability.
September 20, 2014 2:30 pm

That may have been true before the Cultural Revolution in China.
Only daft Singaporean Chinese subscribe to the old fashioned idea of giving "the Highest Respects to Folks with ultimate propriety, wholesomeness and respectability".

PRC Chinese nowadays prefer money.
Even PAP Ministers need million dollar salaries to be honest and to maintain dignity.

Anonymous said...

AnonymousSeptember 20, 2014 10:17 am
Rb, from your 2 posts or stories, what contribution, if any, can they make to society at large?

The answer is yes.

Often, many know what they are doing, where they are going, what is the likely outcome......

So can kpkb change the political system per se.

The answer is probably no.

But for any person or system to improve, to move forward, YEW need an opponent or a competitor or a sparing partner.

Bloggers are but opposition members, albeit virtual sparing partners.

Bloggers cannot replace law makers per se but they probably play a big contributory role to a "healthier " growth of the entire political system.

From the tour guide episode, it has exposed some "loop holes" in the system that probably need to be looked into and remedied if necessary.

From Jack Ma's story, it exposes the lack of enterprise of the GLCs led system and the over reliance on scholars and paper generals in taking the lead when they rather hide in their comfort zones.

Only when the players in the system are "pushed" either by social media or opposition MPs can meaningful, necessary and significant strides be made in society.

Whether there will be sufficient numbers of opposition in parliament down the road to make the difference is a BIG question mark?

Whether there will always be bloggers and netizens down the road to kpkb is also a question,

Meanwhile, knowing the impact of their kpkb, it is not the final change per se but likely the process of doing the kpkb that keeps bloggers and netizens going in this "devil advocate or adverserial role" chore.

Ultimately, to survive in the long haul, sinkieland probably still needs to loosen much more in its political system and also media industry.

To depend on or expect the predominantly unpaid social media netizens to play the "devil advocate or adverserial role" chore indefinitely may be pure wishful thinking.

With the world as their oyster, able and forward looking netizens are likely to swim into the vast ocean from this small pond or lake sooner than YEW expect.

In the meantime, knowing the limited impact of this virtual kpkb on the politcal outcome, it is likely the process and not the end result that keeps bloggers and netizens alike going.

But in due time, many netizens may need to bid good bye for bigger seas amd oceans to search and fulfil their true inner self. This tiny barren rock is likely too small and/ or too suffocating to nurture any big, world standard, world scale giant squid or whale. Luo Han ornamental fish, cat fish, tilapia fish Yes!

Anonymous said...

AnonymousSeptember 19, 2014 4:25 pm
Jack Ma cannot make it so big if in sinkieland.

This is a fact.

Alibaba's IPO market value is bigger than all sinkieland top 3 banks, top 3 property counters, telco, national carrier combined.

Big whale cannot grow in a small pond.

Swim into the ocean and grow big if YEW are a potential whale.

A giant 350kg squid was caught recently near the artic ocean. Could it have grown so big in sinkieland river or MadLeechy ReSirwhore?

Anonymous said...

AnonymousSeptember 19, 2014 4:40 pm
@ bSeptember 19, 2014 3:52 pm

// "Jack Ma: If you’re still poor at 35, you deserve it!"

Jack Ma, however, looks down on poor people. I do not think it is a good sign. If he is born in a war torn state, will he be rich?//

In many interviews and talks in Chinese and English especially to young people, one of his themes is problem solving skills with minimal resources.

If anyone show Jack Ma how the sinkieland's scholars and paper generals solved problems, 马云 might have fainted or vomit blood?

马云doesn't seem to believe in throwing good money after bad to solve problems. He doesn't believe in throwing big and endless $$$$$ at problems. That could be one of the worst wastages of resources. Whatever other terms YEW want to call it - Misallocation of resources, inefficient allocation of resources etc etc. Think THARMASICK, G AI SEE, ASS AMP R TEE, ASS TEE xxxxxs, etc etc Sinkieland has a lot of $$$$$$ to throw around?

Anonymous said...

AnonymousSeptember 19, 2014 5:05 pm
How did 马云 succeeded?

He looks like "an alien", uglier than mai hum, kee chiu, marborotan combined.

Yet he managed to convince 20+ ex colleagues in 1999 to give up everything, follow him to Zhejiang and started Alibaba in a small, cramped apartment. He borrowed money from staff to pay their salaries. Yahoo and Japenis Softbank invested hundreds of millions in the mid 2000s in his company just after 1 presentation by this "alien looking" Chinaman.

Why his tens of thousands of troops believe in him and work 20 hours days on end to deliver what he wants?

Worst still, his I T skills is legendary. Jack Ma could be as good in programming as old man. Can YEW believe it? Yet he was founder and CEO of a giant ecommerce conglomerate. Beside baba, he still has Alimama ( because he doesnt want someone to come along and marry Alibaba for free, no joke, its true), Alipay, TaoBao, TianMao etc etc.

This ex English school teacher who knows next to nothing in software programming, looks like an alien, learned his English when he was young moonlighting as a tour guide to American tourists precided over an I T giant and now one of China's most famous billionaires?

This is Jack Ma.

The enigmatic alien looking ex-English school teacher.

Anonymous said...

AnonymousSeptember 19, 2014 6:53 pm
After IPO of Alibaba, Jack Ma might scale even greater heights down the road.

By end 2012, Jack Ma's 2 other companies, TaoBao and TianMao, grossed total revenue of 1 Trillion RMB in e-commerce sales and are still growing exponentially.

It is not only just a new business model, it is a new lifestyle, new thinking, the replacement of old thinking with new thoughts, perspectives etc.

In recent years, when sinkies are still stuck in old traditional angbo during CNY, the Chinese are already busy exchanging e-angbo across their vast land mass of over 9.6 million sq km.

When SINKIELAND' s public sector and GLCs crowded out the private sector, the only outcome is the battle field ruins of billions of dollars red ink and nothing to show on the global stage.

This something that politicians, scholars, paper generals, papayayas, Ivory Towerers will never come to terms with or accept or admit.

When foreign funds pull out one day due to domestic reforms and geopolitical changes in their countries, SINKIELAND may be left with an empty shell or even insolvency?

Sinkies should know what keeps paper generals having so much money to "throw" around.

As the Chinese say, " no party lasts forever " ...........

Anonymous said...

AnonymousSeptember 19, 2014 7:12 pm
To illustrate how mind boggling the sales figure in Jack Ma's ecommerce platforms, anecdotal evidence revealed that on some public holidays in China in recent years, the total sales per day just on TaoBao platform alone reached 20 to 30 billions RMB.

What have all the hundreds of billions of investments all these years thrown around by SINKIELAND' s GLCs achieved?

Jack Ma's empire was built from millions of investment, not billions. Throwing billions often ended belly up, NEVER a recipe for success in the business world.

Anonymous said...

AnonymousSeptember 20, 2014 8:11 am
In 淘宝,there are more than 8 millions merchandisers renting virtual shops on its platform.

On a typical day, parcels volume is at about 30 millions. On public holidays, an additional order of at least 10 millions is added to the daily volume.

Due to 淘宝, there are millions of couriers jobs created all over China.

It is estimated that there are about 30 millions jobs linked directly and indirectly due to the existence of 淘宝.

In terms of its contribution to China's economy, foremost is the expansion of the C (consumption) component to China's GDP.

Old and middle age people don't create much consumption ( China's domestic demand). It is the youth and young adults who spend money to drive domestic demand.

In other words, in Jack Ma's world, the youth is the future of China. He predicted somebody will overtake him down the road and it will be one of these young chaps.

Meanwhile he is striving towards 1 million merchandisers with an annual turnover of at least 1 million RMB on his 淘宝 platform. That's a staggering 1 Trillion RMB, bigger than the GDP of many developing cuntries.

It is predicted that at present growth rate, in 10 years time, the transaction volume in 淘宝 alone would exceed SINKIELAND' s GDP.

If include Alibaba and 天猫, in 10 years time, their yearly volume probably would equal the combined GDP of SINKIELAND, MATLAND and TIGERLAND (THAIGALAND) .

Btw, in 1999, Jack Ma' s initial startup capital was 50,000 RMB!

Not enough for SINKIELAND' s scholars to attend overseas cooking lessons, much less build up an empire the size of a cuntry.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous September 20, 2014 11:30am

//"Jack Ma represent the main street, the masses."
Anon 11:23 am

In that case, ordinary Sinkies also represent the main street, the masses what.

How come no Jack Ma among them hah?

Or is it the ordinary Sinkie masses is too small, as compared to China?

And which is the reason why PAP want and need lots of ordinary, or worse, foreigners to supplement the Sinkie masses?//

Anon 11.30,

YEW said SINKIELAND no "Jack Ma ", implying no "Alibaba" ?

YEW are sinkie?

YEW never heard of "AhLeePapa" ?

Much "BIGGER" than "Alibaba" ?

Total employees " 5.5m ", pushing "6.9m" and soon "10m" ?

There is also somebody surname "Ma" in "AhLeePapa" , just that he is not the CEO or Chairman but only ministar of palamong.

Fyi, he is " TanBo Ma " ( literal translate means wait no horse).

Another similarity is that in a contest of ugly, it is hard to decide which "Ma" to award the trophy?

Their similarities end there.

Anonymous said...

Another great feat of Jack Ma is that he almost single-handedly put the Chinese city of Hang Zhou on the China map as the one and only ecommerce city in China, just like old man put Sinkieland on the world map.

In terms of ecommerce, Hang Zhou achieved many first in the entire China.

Jack Ma is indeed the epitome of some of the most astounding Chinese words of wisdom:

1) 山不转水转 水不转人转 人不转地转 地不转天转

2) 穷则变,变则通,通则久

3) 六六三十六, 数中有术,术中有数。阴阳燮理,机在其中。机不可设,设则不中.

4) 变通有数,有变则通

Anonymous said...


What is the similarity between old man and jack ma?

Anonymous said...

Jack Ma put the Chinese city of Hang Zhou on the China and world maps.

Old man put the South East Asian city of SINKIELAND on the Asia and world maps.

Btw, Jack Ma is born in 1964, the year of the dragon. He is 12 years younger than old man's "young man" ( born 1952, also another year of the dragon).

History will tell whether the similarity goes beyond that or stops there?

It seems though Jack Ma shares more similarities with old man, someone 41 years his senior.

Anonymous said...

Seems to me;
Jsck Ma is helping a lot more poor Chinese people with his Alibaba company.
LKY in contrast does not compare very favourably with Jack Ma.

Anonymous said...

Oh, another similarity is the name of the entity they founded?

Jack Ma's baby is call "Alibaba".

Old man's baby is call "AhLeePapa"?

Anonymous said...

Yet another similarity is this:?

Through Alibaba, the world knows Jack Ma.

Through "AhLeePapa", the world knows old man?

Anonymous said...

RB, I noticed that your articles generally celebrate China's achievements and mock America's mistake. I think this is short-sighted. Chinese or Americans, they are human. Like it or not, the Chinese will behave in the same unreasonable, stuck-up manner when they get into power. Injustice and blatant arrogance will still prevail... this time by the Chinese.

Anonymous said...

The success of Jack Ma is celebrated not because it went one up against many companies in its IPO or the sheer success of Alibaba' s market value during market debut in the NYSE. It's market value at Friday' s (19 Sept 2014) closing price way surpassed market values of even Warren Buffett' s Berkshire Hathaway, tech giant IBM, FMCG giant P&G, soft drink giant Coca-Cola etc etc.

The significance of Jack Ma's success is in its reach to the Chinese masses.

However, two of Alibaba Holding largest institutional investors are Japenis Softbank and America's Yahoo which own about 37% and 20% shares respectively. The Japenis SoftBank Charman said he is not selling his company's shares of Alibaba. Yahoo apparently cashed out about 5% from its original almost 25% stake, netting almost 10 billions in the process. The initial investment of Japenis Softbank was 20 million in 2000 and Yahoo was about 100 millions in the early 2000s. The Japenis stake is now worth more than 60 billions based on last Friday' s closing of about 93 USD from initial debut of 68 USD per share. Jack Ma himself cashed out about 1.2 billions worth of shares leaving him with about 7.7% stake, but still the largest individual shareholder.

Now, the bigger picture is that Jack Ma's Alibaba Holding has provided direct employment to tens of thousands of Chinese employees. There are about 8 million ordinary Chinese merchandisers on TaoBao platform alone. The direct and indirect employment opportunities created including millions of couriers employees total about 30 millions.

Think about it.

What is China's future out of its current HIGHLY IMBALANCED economic structure?

What potential and opportunities would Jack Ma's nurturing of a target of 10 millions entrepreneurs on the Tabao's platform hold for the future?

Despite his success, Jack Ma's apparent passions are still Tai Chi and ancient sword fighting novels ( lol ). His philosophical bearing predominantly emanates from Buddhism, Taoism, Confucian teachings and the late Chairman Mao' s quotes, poems and writings.

What do all these mean?

Jack Ma said the Chinese minds are still empty despite recent years economic affluence. His next foray options apparently include education and philanthropy.

Would he one day become the President or Premier of PRC?

Anonymous said...

/// RB, I noticed that your articles generally celebrate China's achievements and mock America's mistake. I think this is short-sighted. Chinese or Americans, they are human. Like it or not, the Chinese will behave in the same unreasonable, stuck-up manner when they get into power. Injustice and blatant arrogance will still prevail... this time by the Chinese. ///
September 21, 2014 3:23 am

It's not China versus America.
It's Logic & Enlightened Self Interest versus blind faith and unquestioning obedience.

Blind faith and unquestioning obedience to LKY and PAP has brought misery onto Singaporeans and our children.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Exactly, my views are more positive towards the rise of the Chinese civilsation and the hypocrisy of the Americans/West. From the 2/3 comments above, the same anti Chinese mindset is obvious after two centuries of mindbending and drugging the mind, everything Chinese is bad, everything American is good.

China is going to break apart, its economy is all in a shamble and would collapse and all kinds or ridiculous and unthinking views that China and the Chinese people are monsters.

The truth, the American and Western economies have collapsed and would keep going down happily because they would not want to talk about it.

And look at the number of wars the Americans are conducting around the world, destablising countries and killing innocent people in the hundreds of thousands and still doing it everyday.


What have the Chinese been doing since it rose from the ashes of the cripplking western domination? The problems China is facing today were the legacies of being weak and broken and oppressed. It's territorial disputes were created by colonialism and it has to fight to reclaim what was taken from her. And we have little pesky countries wanting to claim China's territories when they were non countries when those territories were already part of China or discovered and marked by China.

Many Asians, including Chinese have been reading western world views and perspectives without questioning.

The only thing they are questioning is whether Stamford Raffles founded Singapore or Lee Kuan Yew. They did not question the villagers, fishermen and merchants who founded this island and lived here long before any westerners even know of its existence or setting foot here.

Sure, the rise of China would lead to the rewriting of many western dominated rules and the balance of power. Is China going to be as ruthless as the West?

Answer is definitely No, as China had never done that and the new world order, with nationalism and an awaken natives of the land, the days of colonialism and domination is over.

China's rise is about trade and economics. The Americans and the West is all about wars and military conquests. Read what Hsien Loong said in the Sunday Times today about 'giving the game away'. I will write about it later.

Those who have eyes but not see.

Anonymous said...

Hi redbean
I'm the pseudo ang moh who has been giving you a hard time lately ... but with no bad intentions.
Just want to say that I agree fully with what you have posted at 9.50am.

My caveat or caution is always this;
The Chinese peasants have had a long history of being exploited and conned by Chinese rulers.
So before we throw our unquestioning support behind yet another "Chinese saviour" ... we better ask some very hard questions.

People vote with their feet.
Why do so many PRC and Singaporeans emigrate to the west?
Are they all pseudo ang mohs?
Or is it because (sad to say):
The western democracies (even with racial discrimination) can still offer a better life to Chinese peasants than any PRC or PAP government?
I'm deeply ashamed to ask this question.

But unlike you.
My anger is directed towards the governments that have betrayed and exploited their own citizens.
And not towards the western democracies.
We can't change the western democracies.
But as citizens, we should be able to change our own government.
Let's clean our own house first.
Before we ask the western democracies to clean their house.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Anon 10:17,

Thanks for the acknowledgement. First point, throughout history, all countries will face the ups and downs with good and then bad leaders. At the last stage of the govt or dynasty, there will be bad rulers. And the funny thing, the rulers would not know of their shortcomings and think they were doing ok. And they will be surrounded by nimcompoohs, conmen, tricksters, traitors etc. But the rulers would think they are the best talents they had to run the country.

If you look at the Chinese leaders today, you will see that the top is pretty healthy. And it could be real bad if they had Bo Xilai instead of Xi Jinping in charge. Then all hell will break lose again. Hopefully China is on a recovery path and good leaders will run the country instead of bad ones.

The West are looking good for the last few centuries not because they were inherently good. Sama sama. They killed millions of natives across the world, oppressed and suppressed other natives and looted from them, including Chinese and Asians, robbed their wealth to grow rich. And they could continue to do that to other countries without having to cannibalise their own people.

People marched with their feet. It has been to the West for two centuries. The trend or cycle is changing. The East wind is blowing again. Ask why the 1.4b Chinese are staying put today when they can all go to the West and why so many who have gone West are returning. And the West are starting to march East, to Asia, SE Asia and China.

There are many good things in the West, western philosophies, concepts of freedom and human rights and living well. These will set foot in China too in a matter of time. Did you see the Chinese adopting the bad policies we have here? The Chinese are changing, but not easy to change 1.4b people is so short a span of time. Old habits die hard. With prosperity and exposure to the world, they will learn and pick up good things just like us. We were like them, we were from there.

They will deal with their corrupt leaders and clean up their house. They have more freedom and democracy than us.

We are lucky by being on the good books of the West and useful to them. Ask the Africans and Arabs how the West is treating them and doing to them?

We have to be selective, learn the good stuff, see the good stuff, and not to swallow hook, line and sinkers. There are good stuff in the West and bad stuff as well and vice versa.

I have to continuously point out the hypocrisies of the West as no one will. Even our media are singing 'How the West was won' unthinkingly and unashamingly.

I am more balance in my thoughts than many would think so. My writings are provocative and not necessarily reflecting the fullness of my thoughts and values. Many a times I took a one sided view of things to irritate and provoke people to question and think what was I saying and why?

Anonymous said...

Hi redbean
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I hope you are right about China.
I would like to believe that there are Chinese rulers and leaders who want to improve the lives of their citizens.

As for Singapore.
I've completely given up on the PAP government.
LKY promised my generation in the 1980's that he would mentor and groom the next generation of leaders.
And we paid LKY millions in salary for his mentoring classes.
And just look at today's class of PAP clowns.

Anonymous said...

Mentoring class is just like tuition class. You get dull and exam smart grads that could only stick to a script and could not think or see further than their nose.

They would all think alike and behave alike, like robotics.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

David Stockman, a US politician, businessman and economic guru said this,

'This is just another version of Japan Inc.—a state-built house of debt, export mercantilism and fabulous over-investment that eventually came to a dead stop 20 years ago. And Japan at least had some rudiments of true capitalism such as law, contracts and some vestiges of market discipline.'

I thought he was referring to the USA, deep with debt to the nose. No, he was talking about Alibaba.