3/21/2013
So much deference, so little substance
‘Former Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew was speaking at a dialogue on 20th Mar 2013 organized by Standard Chartered Bank [Link] with US Federal Reserve and former chairman of US President Obama’s Economic Recovery Advisory Board, Paul Volcker. Also included was Standard Chartered group CEO Peter Sands.’ Quoted from TRE.
This gathering is best remembered as the last pose to honour the passing of a political giant. His view on population growth as if it is the only way to achieve economic growth was swallowed like a bitter pill, solemnly without much protest, more in due deference to his stature as a senior statesman.
Volcker the economist politely contradicted this flawed growth theory by growing population with this comment, ‘the world “cannot continue to grow” indefinitely, and would have to resign to “being like Japan” eventually. This is in response to LKY lamenting that Japan’s refusal to admit immigrants would see the population halved and eventually becoming nothing. A simple extrapolation on paper may say so, but the realities of how the human race will adjust to different situation will see the race’s continued existence into the future short of a nasty catastrophic disaster.
The assertion that China or all countries must continue to grow their population must be greeted with disbelief. The world would be a better place if the population is reduced by a third, and countries like China and India and even Japan could be better off with a 20% or 30% population reduction. There will be more for everyone and all the unnecessary economic activities to support a bigger population can be made redundant and the resources allocated to more productive and useful things for the rest of the population. Mother earth and the oceans would have a reprieve and time to nurse their wounds and to replenish the livestocks in them.
Population growth for economic growth up to a point becomes meaningless and disastrous, self defeating and self destroying.
The other point harped upon is the value of foreign talents with the assumption that the talents come in peace and to bring goodness to the people. What if the talents are here with their private agenda, to promote their own interests at the expense of the citizens? A country or its govt owes its right to be the govt to look after the interests of its citizens and not the good of foreigners no matter how talented they are. It is treason to allow foreigners to destroy the local population and to rob away their wealth and the right to a good life.
Every country can do away with foreigners when the end result is not a betterment of its citizens. To hell with foreign talents. Every country can grow at their own pace without the need for foreign talents unless these talents are there to advance and complement the general well being of the citizens.
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26 comments:
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Dear Sinkies
It's useless to debate with PAPigs
I repeat. GE 2016.
If Singapore economy do well, but Singaporeans don't do well,
We vote Opposition.
Our KPI is whether Singaporeans do well.
We don't care if economy does well or not.
I'm so distrustful of the PAPigs, I'll probably vote Opposition anyway.
The only permanent way ensure that Singaporeans do well is to vote in a large numeber of Opposition MPs.
We need a 2 political party system in Singapore.
Just like in USA.
The Republican Party in USA.
Like PAPig Party in Singapore.
Represents economic pig values.
Democratic Party in USA represent universal human values like truth, justice and equality.
Singaporeans need to support and vote for such a political party in Singapore.
To represent Singaporeans who believe in universal human values.
Any pragmatic money face person will wax lyrics about the value of money. However values of humanities and benevolence will be no use to a practical person used to superficial pageantry and manifestation.
See how LKY donned Mandarin Attires to showcase himself?
Is he a Chinese by anything he wears?
The obsession with growth and property price would not go down well with some audience as many are not the nitwits that care for nothing else but money, money and money.
LKY may be a great politician but a great economist he is not.
Many of his ideas are warped. Like for example his eugenics theory, scholar mandarin system in government n SAF, Hanyu Pinyi names, Speak Mandarin, Stop at Two, and now this population GDP growth theory.
It is not so bad if he allows his pet theories to be rigorously debated openly by other more knowledgeable beings without striking fears (hint: outspoken academics have to worry about their tenure). Many of the malaise we witnessed today are the result of the relentless execution of his pet theories.
People behave in ways which accord with their own self-interests.
Of course people emigrate and immigrate for their "own private agenda". Why else would they do so?
And that's a good thing. Motivated people are great producers -- foreigners and new immigrants tend to be VERY motivated -- why is this bad?
Growth: The context in which growth is "bad" viz a viz population increase is only if it becomes OVER POPULATION. Singapore is far, far away from being over-populated. Estimates range between 12-15 million before Singapore gets to be "over populated", so there is PLENTY of room to grow.
And yes, the global population will adjust itself to resources and the global economy. Global population is calculated to peak at around 9 billion circa mid to late this century. It will then shrink.
So like it or not, the population of Singapore WILL INCREASE as the world itself gets more crowded.
>> A country or its govt owes its right to be the govt to look after the interests of its citizens
That is nearly pure nonsense. The government is there to GOVERN as per the constitution. It has to look after the LONG TERM INTERESTS of the cuntree. The citizens are only there for a moment. They are constantly being "replenished" by birth-death, immigration-emigration. No single generation of citizens has the right to sabotage the long term interests of the cuntree.
In the political realm it is OK to sacrifice the citizens for the cuntree. In a war, citizens fight to defend the cuntree -- they die for the cuntree.
Imagine if the cuntree died to save the citizens? That is untenable!
Anyway in this case, who are you sacrificing? The dead shits who refuse to grow a pair of balls and compete toe-to-toe with globalised competition.
I say: replace these miscreants. :-)
'Political giant', don't make us laugh. So Napolean, De Gaulle, Hitler, Churchill, Stalin, Rooselvelt, Sukarno, Sun Yat Sen, Chairman Mao Tse Tung and Premier Chou En Lai must pale in significance in comparison. Some politicians must indulge in loud blabbering to inflate their ego. In the late 1960s the same man's policy of 'Stop At Two' was forced on the country inspite of opposition from the people especially from Doctor Toh Chin Chye. That insidious policy was disastrous and resulted in detrimental negative growth of the population with all its bad side effects. Now the people are told by the same Giant that a big imported population is good and important for the island city state's survival. We wonder if it is good for the people or for the Pappies' survival. What a flip flop policy? Can the people trust the Pappies any more especially the 'Giant' in Lilliput Land?
Eagles Eyes
Hi eagles eyes, your sentiment is not misplaced. As anon 10:43 said, LKY is a politician at his best but as an economist he is right below there. And this agrees with your contempt for his economic and social policies. Yes he fouled up very badly in these areas and sadly no one was strong enough to stop him from carrying out his theories.
As a politician, he walked in the world stage. He may not have the big country and the big events to back him up in the light of the European or Chinese leaders, but he is one that the recent European and American leaders would want to listen to for a second opinion. No Asian leader has attained this kind of aura, and he is from a small little piece of rock. To achieve this kind of stature is no mean feat.
No one in the Asian circuit today will be able to do what he did. The Americans and European leaders would not bother to invite anyone and to listen to their rubbish.
redbean:
That "small piece of rock" is one of the world's richest places.
Although wealth creation in Singapore began nearly 200 years ago, LKY and his cronies did their part. All in all, not bad for a small cuntry, which of course owes most of its wealth to PRIVATE ENTERPRISE.
IMO, those "western leaders" of big cuntrees could not govern Singapore lah. Plus hold the reins of power for 50 years: no way. These fuckers are good at destroying private enterprise.
The PAP's record with private enterprise is a MIXED scorecard: most of the time they are good, occasionally they are epic failures.
Still, I would prefer the PAP (faults and all) over the present clowns in the Australian government, who have been systematically borrowing us to long-term indebtedness. Cuntry has been doing well for nearly 2 decades now, tax revenues are up...and the motherfuckers still got budget deficit!!
Looks like Fu Man Chu.
Hehe
It will ash to ash and dust to dust for whatever one was.
More importantly, let"s see what follows for ones' posterity. It could be reverrence or it maybe ignominy.
The reality now is that many bottles of champagne are being chilled and swears and curses are flying all around.
Lamentable.
patriot
Even his worshipper Matila has ready some bottles in awe of him.
真是英雄识英雄
He singlehandedly created this problem with his 'stop at two' mother of all mistaken policy, and now he is telling us this story. And that was when he was at his prime, supposedly to be the best years of his thinking brain in solving issues.
His memory now must be failing fast to forget such a serious mistake. Oops, sorry, when has he ever admit his mistakes?
Time really for him to surrender his IC before he does more damage to this little rock.
We will only know whether he is right or wrong when a war breaks out in asia. Ever wonder why switzerland has never been invaded? not even by Hitler? Probably sinky will also not be invaded when a war breaks out in this region.
However, defence is only part of the gov jobs. The well being of the people is still important. No one will listen to him today if not for the support of people in this island in the past. He owes his success to the people and should also take the well being of them into thinking. Importing TOO many foreigners lacking in substance will not be good for the country and people.
It is also possible that a 'war' against all these tax haven countries will occur first before the real war.
'The PAP's record with private enterprise is a MIXED scorecard'
No one knows their scorecard since they are not transparent and honest about it at all.
'foreigners and new immigrants tend to be VERY motivated -- why is this bad?'
Disagree. We are importing foreigners for quite a few years but productivity does not seem to improve.
Senior Lee fail to explain whether is it a plus or minus
When immigrant take away opportunity of local that qualify for the job
When immigrant did not trained up or add value to existing local work force
When immigrant left the country to setup against Singapore companies.
When immigrant(those PRs) take out CPF (with interest) and left the country.
With most big spender countries experience not only ageing but also high debt to repay, He
is seriously over optimistic about job creation rate.
I hate to agree with him that confidence in Singapore had been the key factor for our progress in the earlier years.
But the policies hatched by him and his gang in later years hardly gives Singaporeans the same confidence to move forward. I am not talking about the rich, the business class and the elites. They can take care of themselves wherever they may be.
In particular, the immigration policy that caused all the problems in housing, jobs, congestion and social unease for the middle and lower income class of citizens.
We traded growth with falling national identity, confidence in our future and concern for the well being of our children in the face of this foreign tsunami.
And that lost confidence is very difficult to be regained. Trying to close the stable door when the horses have bolted is not going to bring back the horses.
Perhaps they see little or no future in sinky so they tried to milk as much as possible now by allowing huge influx of immigrants.
The Japanese people and as a nation, Japan will in all probability outlast the PAP, the nation of Singapore and Singaporeans even with our "increase the population strategy". Mr. Lee & us Singaporeans can learn a bit of modesty from the Japanese.
A serious flu epidemic can easily wipeout a big part of very crowded Singapore.
@408:
>> A serious flu epidemic can easily wipeout a big part of very crowded Singapore.
The PAP, like all savvy governments actually THRIVES in a crisis -- as crises gives "legitimacy" to governments to enact "policy" and enforce edicts.
If 1 million locals get wiped out in a plague of sorts, when it's all over, they'll just "import" another 1 million.
Problem solved. Gun-man Style.
The one who did the 'forecast' went terribly wrong, resulting in poor 'infrastructure setting' during an uncontrollable increase in migrant numbers.
The lesson points to a fact that we need more copilots to be added to the team going forward.
The PAP government thrives in a crisis is absolutely true. And in any crisis, the fear factor is exploited by them to the full.
How much further the PAP can utilise this strength to consolidate it's power is left to be seen. I would foresee only a very slow shift on their ground support as citizens became more informed, better educated and information being decentralised from the control of the MSM to the social media.
A change in Government is going to be very messy indeed, if what happens with changing control of Town Councils is the norm. Every Government department is politically indoctrinated by the PAP, so changing the mindset of the people working in those areas will be an awesome task. Added to that, we still do not know what kind of booby traps have been placed by the PAP in those areas. The AIM saga is probably just the tip of the iceberg.
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