11/08/2019

How valid is CPF's reply on Clifford Theseira's case?

A 72-year-old CPF payee recently became a Grab driver, and shared on Facebook to the whole world how a measly S$575 monthly payout made his existence difficult to bear.
As expected, the FB post went viral prompting the CPF Board to respond quickly.
According to the Board, Mr Clifford Theseira, failed to present the whole picture and presented only a portion of the entire story.
“Mr Theseira had withdrawn a total of about S$140,000 from his CPF since turning 55. If Mr Theseira had not done so, his monthly payout could be more than S$1,000 per month,” said the Board.


“In addition, Mr Theseira co-owns a 5-room HDB flat which is fully paid up,” the Board authorities stressed.
Based on Mr Theseira’s version of the story posted on Sept 24, despite having around S$60,000 in his Medisave, his monthly CPF payouts amounted only to S$575. According to the aged retiree, he had to seek employment despite his age and became a Grab driver to support his wife.
But old age has made him incapable of driving for long hours and he claimed that his income as Grab driver is not enough to even pay his income tax obligations. He was also asked to top up his Medisave, or risk having his licence revoked. He then posted a photo of a letter from the CPF Board to this effect.
But the CPF Board repudiated Mr Theseira’s allegations.
“As stated in the letter shown in his post, Mr Theseira could contribute his Medisave monthly via Giro,” it said. The Board added that the Giro payment plan would amount to less than 1 per cent of his monthly income.
“As long as he makes regular CPF contributions, which is no different for all other workers, he will be able to renew his licence when it becomes due in July next year,” CPF management added.

The above is quoted from TRE and is a good example of the high cost of living in Singapore and how the seniors are coping or unable to cope and have to work in their ripe old age just to survive. With $575 monthly payout and a flat that is fully paid, Theseira and his wife would be in serious financial trouble to provide food on the table. I read some surveys saying that a person would need about $1,379pm to live in this expensive city. So, how could $575 pm be enough for Theseira and his wife who also has medical bills to pay? Even if he is to have $1,000 pm if he had not withdrawn his CPF savings early would not make much of a difference.

The whole argument about Theseira having a 5 rm flat is hogwash. But this is the new formula of this garment, that seniors must sell their homes, downgrade to live. It is a cold, calculative thinking, with no consideration to other factors like emotional attachment to a home, the comfort level and familiarity of living in a home. To those who think selling a home to convert to cash is the way to go, it shows that these people are inhumans, treating the seniors as digits with no feelings and sentiments. Come with nothing, go with nothing.

By the way, why should a person at 72 still be forced to contribute to his CPF in the Medisave? People at this age and above are counting every day alive as a bonus. Why the need to save some more? Whose fricking idea is this? Old folks struggling to survive, having to work at such an advanced age and still need to save for retirement, for the future?

What do you think? What is CPF about in the first place? What happens to the age when a person is allowed to withdraw his CPF savings? At 72, a person should be allowed to withdraw all this CPF savings, not to contribute more into it. Any contribution to the CPF must be voluntary.

33 comments:

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ RB

Yup. I've commented heavily on this over the years, as you are well aware.

No amount of complaining will change it. You can write letters until the world runs out of paper...and it wouldn't make a difference.

The only option which has a chance in succeeding is YOUR OWN "REALITY CHECK" to guide your rational self interest-based ACTION.

Rational Self Interest <==> Personal Responsibility

The govt is not responsible for your life lah. You are. If not you, then who? 🤟🤡

Anonymous said...

Probably wat Senior Thesera need to do is to become a cleaner or sell tissues, he may drive grab cars on a relief or part time basis if he wish to. The G of the day r all very adamant to withhold the elderly ceepuifxx so stuck on the mud type, only way is to vote for an alternative party to get yr voices heard.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Personally I have taken care of myself and whatever left in the CPF is an irritant to me.

It is the generally public that must not allow this govt to mess around with their life savings. It is their money and they must keep on fighting for its return. The moment they resign to the fate that it is no longer their money and the govt can do anything to their life savings, they are defeated and their money lost.

Keep fighting, keep shouting, keep cursing until the CPF money is returned to their rightful owners.

Matilah, please do not encourage the daft to be losers without fighting.

Anonymous said...

Hi

Very VERY VERY VERY very very very simple.

Let people take out all their cpf at 55!

Continue putting with cpf and any contributions after 55 should be voluntary.

It is very VERY VERY VERY very very very very simple. Correct?

K.I.S.S.!!!!

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ RB

>>
Matilah, please do not encourage the daft to be losers without fighting. <<


Again you've misunderstood and misrepresented my position.

For those who have fat balances in their CPF, they needn't worry. They can get a nice passive income stream...just shake leg, don't need to "take risks" to get yield (i.e. go out far on the risk curve)

For the rest of the "average" people, they need to approach this intelligently, keeping the time-energy-mortality equation in mind.

Everytime you choose to "solve a problem" you have to draw on the limited resources of time & energy, and be cognisant of MORTALITY.

1. How much of these FINITE RESOURCES are you willing to SPEND (you are drawing-down on your capital).
2. What is the probability of success?
3. How much is your potential loss
4. Given the opportunity cost in FIGHTING, is there something else you can pursue with a chance for a greater PROFIT?


Keeping RATIONAL SELF INTEREST & PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY always firmly fixed in mind, how are you going to conduct yourself through life when you encounter "challenges" Will you be the ENTITLED VICTIM or the "hero" / "winner" in your own story of your one-and-only LIFE?

💡💡Majullah or Matilah...up to you lah.

As we are all well aware: "You die, Your Business".
☠️⚰️⚰️⚰️

If you can't be bothered looking after yourself, you're an ASSHOLE if you think that it is someone else's "duty" to do so! 👍🤪🤟

Got Up Lorry spur to ACTION?

Anonymous said...

Yes, should be very simple. But when people have no money but pretend to have a lot of money and really very desperate to fill up big holes in the pocket, then it is no longer very simple.

The pretence to have a lot of money cannot last and money must be found to put up the pretence. Die die must take your money to pretend to have money.

People who really have the money no need any pretence and no need to desperate want to take other people's money.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Matilah said this.

If you can't be bothered looking after yourself, you're an ASSHOLE if you think that it is someone else's "duty" to do so! 👍🤪🤟

Got Up Lorry spur to ACTION?

November 08, 2019 10:03 am

This is the half truth that Matilah has been spreading all the time, probably not even knowing it because of his blind spot. It is only one side of the coin.

The other side of the coin is a bigger asshole that is dead bound to take the people's money, suffering from entitlement mentality, but telling the people that it is not his or their duty to look after someone else. Like real when they did not and in practice you die your business, but take your money when they could.

Anonymous said...

The key issue is this;
- the promise to return CPF money back to Singaporeans at 55 years of age has been broken

- the PAP government has broken its promise
- how can the PAP be trusted anymore?

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ RB

I know at least 5 people with more than $1mil in their CPF, all in their mid-50s. They're doing FINE.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ RB

Your usual "word salad" 😂😂

How can "looking after yourself" be a "half truth"?

You either look after yourself", or YOU DON'T.

Please lah, you're like a child trying to twist words to win an argument..🤣

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The half truth is the other asshole that is taking the people's money for granted.

You think that is ok?

Many people are taking care of themselves very well. That is no justification for other people to take control of their life savings. No one must be allowed to take control of other people's money without the consent of the owners. This is unacceptable in every count.

Anonymous said...

It seems so difficult for senior citizens to withdraw their coffin money. The million$$$ pay and pay gang withhold it. It appears it is no longer our money. The goons decides for us how much you can take and use the money. It has become like a "father" & a "son"situation where a "father" decides how much to give pocket money to his "son". That's how many see it !

Anonymous said...

Matilar your arguement does not hold water. I need to sodomize u to wake u up lar

imho said...

He is better off than many in this world including many homeless aussies. He can rent out part of this hdb to make some money.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-15/homelessness-in-people-aged-over-65-growing-in-wa-report-finds/11411222

Anonymous said...

Somewhere someone is enjoying the CPF Savings of hundreds of thousands of people, who have been forced into buying insurance scams to deplete their savings.

Anonymous said...

I am of the view that the CPF Funds is as good as empty. It is very likely that someone has over-utilised the funds until there is insufficient fund to reimburse everyone who reached 55 years old.

Anonymous said...

Be very very very careful when you talk about CPF! Make sure your facts are right!

Can kana lim hot kopi! Worst kena untill pants drop!

Hahaha....

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ RB

>> The half truth is the other asshole that is taking the people's money for granted.

You think that is ok? <<

Doesn't matter what I think. It's THE REALITY for living and working in Singapore. And...

... it's THE LAW.

Anonymous said...

@All, @RB,

Theseira's KPKB about money no enough, having to work at 72, having health problems, earning very little as Grab driver etc etc are all NON SEQUITURS (check the dictionary if you don't understand) & OXYMORONIC.

The fact that he has the maximum amount in his Medisave (capped at $57,200 for 2019) shows that (1) he doesn't have much, if any, chronic illnesses (at 72 yo he is already better than average), and (2) his wife also is quite healthy otherwise he would have used quite a bit from his Medisave to help pay for her outpatient & inpatient healthcare.

If a healthy man in his 70s is so hard up for money that his Medisave is his biggest amount of money left, then it is a SHOCKING fact about his inability to safekeep & be responsible about money. Returning CPF money will NOT be the last step ---- these people will portray themselves as victims of society when their returned CPF money runs out, and demand that you help contribute to their daily living expenses, "free" universal basic income, free healthcare, free hospital, free electricity etc etc.

You people already KPKB until your grandparents rise from the dead with the GST going from 7% to 9% (which is needed for the increasing subsidised healthcare). What happens when it goes to 20% to pay for universal basic income & free hospital & free electricity???

Theseira's main complain is about the compulsory $595 that CPF wants him to put into Medisave. Otherwise his next renewal of his PDVL will be rejected.

This $595 is calculated based on his age & income as a Grab driver in 2018 (considered as self-employed profession). From Workfare website calculator (https://www.workfare.gov.sg/Pages/CalculatorSelfEmployed.aspx) his Grab earnings in 2018 was about $11,350 or average of $945 per month.

He doesn't need to pay income tax since his earnings are below $20K. He should have just focused on the complain of having to pay $595 into his Medisave at the risk of having his Grab livelihood being revoked. Instead of going on into other aspects of CPF.

This would have 10,000X gain support from BOTH the typical losers here AS WELL AS rational thinkers. (1) His Medisave already maxed out for 2019 --- if he contributes this $595, it will simply flow into his CPF-OA ---- as 72 yr old, he can always take out this amount from his OA --- SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF CONTRIBUTING TO A MAXED OUT MEDISAVE?!?!?!!!!

(2) Govt has always stressed on self-reliance --- tying a person's livelihood to following an administrative policy that doesn't make sense in this case ... just doesn't make sense.

(3) By appealing to rationality & the fact that his Medisave cannot take any more contributions in 2019, it would be MUCH EASIER for CPF to accede on case-by-case basis. Now (due to POOR EQ on all sides) there is BAD BLOOD between all parties, which makes it harder for civil servants to waive what is essentially just an administrative rule.

This govt is VERY thin-skin ---- by publicly confronting & TRYING to paint it in a bad light (FAIL big time in this case), this govt will dig out & display all your past history for all to see. I've already said as much in a previous comment when Theseira first pulled his publicity stunt.

I'm VERY surprised that not a single Sinkie has come out with the above points to show that there could have been a win-win outcome ... Theseira not having to cough up the $595 (which is obviously precious to him) & he gets to renew his PDVL without issue ... and CPF / govt being seen as understanding & magnanimous in bending a rule when it doesn't serve its purpose in this case.

WSG

Anonymous said...

@All,

Oh BTW my dividends plus capital gains for this year is looking to hit US$400,000.

Markets are all chiong-ing!!!

HUAT! HUAT! HUAT HAAARRRRRR!!!!!!

WSG

Anonymous said...

Fuck CECA
Fuck PAP

Fuck (CECA) Heng Swee Keat and his hypocritical "CONstructive politics".

Anonymous said...

Very very good for you!

All the best!

Anonymous said...

I am 69 and also a taxi driver. My annual Medisave contribution is about $2200.

For three 3 years, I did not pay the Medisave. So when my taxi license expired, I could not renew. They wanted me to pay $6,600 before allowing me to renew my licence. So I borrowed the money from a relative and paid the $6,600 in full into my Medisave.

Because my Medisave ceiling had maxed, a few days later I withdrew all the $6,600 and returned it to my relative. Simple as that.

So what's the big hooha? Just pay whatever amount required and then withdraw it out the next day, if your Medisave ceiling had maxed.




Anonymous said...

I refer to the writer of: "I am 69 and also a taxi driver. My annual Medisave contribution is about $2200".

You talk as if it is so simple or your relative in cpf board ?

To prove that your case is genuine, pls show us some of your documents & transactions from the cpf board for us to understand it. Govt always reply us that it is a case by case basis, not blanket approval to all.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 3:09pm

If you're above 55 AND your Medisave is maxed out ($57,200 in 2019) AND you have met the Basic Retirement Sum in your Retirement Account ($88K in 2019) then YES, any further contribution to your Medisave will straightaway flow into your CPF-OA.

You can then withdraw the amount from CPF-OA to your bank account. This is NOT new --- this regulation has been in-place since Medisave started in 1984 until today. Do you even know your rights & what the FUCK is happening around here?!?!?! LOL!!!

If you use paynow option on the CPF app, the money will be transferred in less than 5 seconds. I can confirm the speed as I helped an elderly neighbour with withdrawing his CPF interests every December.

If you're below 55 AND your Medisave is maxed out, any further contributions to Medisave will automatically flow to (1) your Special Account if you haven't hit this year's Full Retirement Sum ($176,000 in 2019) OR (2) to your Ordinary Account if your SA is already over $176K. I can confirm this based on my voluntary contribution to CPF and my SA is already above the FRS.

Theseira has maxed out his Medisave (according to his boast of "almost $60K") AND he is above 55 AND he has met his Minimum Sum (otherwise CPF would not have allowed him to withdraw $140K previously) .... therefore every single $1 he put into his Medisave will go into his Ordinary Account ... which he will be able to withdraw immediately.

People .... if you want to KPKB about CPF ..... then KNOW the law & regulations!!!! Keep your friends close and your enemies CLOSER!!!! No wonder you losers always LOSE to PAPies!!!

WSG

Anonymous said...

@ 3.09pm

We need to vote in more Opposition MPs to do this type of investigation.

PAP is not interested, ... we all know that.
- and it's no use to kpkb in the internet

CONCLUSION
- we need at least 30 Opposition MPs in parliament to represent Singaporeans.

Anonymous said...

@ 3:09 pm

There is no need to show you any document to prove my case. Anyway, how to send you my documents? And who the fucks are you that I can trust you If you already showed me you cannot trust me?

Now, listen and listen well. If you want proof, all you have to do is to go down to any CPF Branch nearest your house and ask them to verify whether what I said is true or not.

Alternately, you may visit CPF's website and log in with your Singpass. From there you can find out the rules governing this particular aspect that I am talking about.

69 yo taxi driver.

Anonymous said...

@uncle taxi driver,

Waaahhh .... you really zhun zhun put your taxi earnings as $21K huh?!?!?

With the $1K earned income relief, that means no income tax!!! LOL!!!!

Since medisave contributions are also tax deductible, this means in the future you can put higher earnings & escape tax.

Useful as more & more people use cashless modes to pay for taxi --- but this is captured by the taxi company system & reported to authorities. So less chance for you to practise "creative tax avoidance" LOL!!!!!

WSG

Anonymous said...

The answer is always we need to vote in more opposition to do this type of investigation.

The reality is why do people not vote for the opposition when the time comes.

We can say, hope and pray for this to happen, but will it ever happen?

Anonymous said...

Only daft needs be told not to put All Eggs in One Basket.
And
that Power Corrupts with
Absolute Power Corrupts Sbsolutely.
lt is just Commonsense. Yet such Simple Logic escapes the Daft Sinkies of a Smart Nation.

Lolx..


Anonymous said...

I would think that Singaporeans are generally well off and have little difficulty paying daily expenses and the occasional medical fees, except for a small minority. Otherwise, why would they vote the PAP and give it a strong mandate every election time?

Play Bazaar city said...

Keep a receipt in case your business is audited. satta king play bazaar abuse this and claim expenses that correspond to you feeding your family.

play bazaar said...

satta king Kill your nicotine addiction before you quit smoking. Talk to your doctor about any possible medicines they can prescribe that can make nicotine powerless over you. After you are on one for a while, you will find smoking having no effect on your mood. You will just stop because it does not do anything for you anymore. play bazaar