For quite some time I have been silent on the CPF and so were many social media contributors. But silence is not consent, silence is not appeasement, and silence is not giving up. The danger of being silent is that some in power would say, see no more complains, so the people must be happy, the people have accepted it.
Just to recap how bad your CPF money has become, how you have been had, remember the NMP woman happily chirped that CPF is not your money, and how the house roared and clapped in approval? This was music to their ears. And this is want they want to hear, want the people to concede and give up their CPF savings, not the people's money, not the money of the people and their employers that contributed to it.
From its original conception and terms, the CPF savings must be returned to the contributor when he reaches the age of 55. Period. The condition was so simple, clean and clear. See how far the terms and conditions have changed and how far you have been had here.
1. You cannot have your money at age 55. This has been extended to age 65.
2. Latest, a letter from CPF extends the age of withdrawal to 70 if you did not read the letter carefully, did not receive the letter, did not know how to read or somehow miss this letter and did not reply.
3. And if the CPF returns your money, it would be in drips and draps, by instalments up to 80 or 90 years or when there is still money left, whichever is later.
4. Before you are allowed to touch your money, there are compulsory insurance schemes that you did not agree to pay for, ie CPF Life, Medishield Life, Eldershield Life and akan datang, CareShield Life. And this is not the end of compulsory insurance schemes if you can trust the clowns.
5. You have to set aside Minimum Sum to the tune of more than a hundred thousand dollars despite paying CPF Life premium.
6. You have to set aside Minimum Sum for Medisave despite paying premium for Medishield Life.
7. For those who are already qualified to withdraw your CPF savings, if you sell your HDB flats or property you have to repay the interest on your housing loans and the money tangkap again to top up your Minimum Sum. Wait a minute, aren't CPF your money and you are already past the withdrawal age of 55, why still must contribute and money tangkap in CPF?
8. And if you are still employed, self employed, way past the withdrawal age, you still have to contribute to CPF. Holy shit, dying old folks working way past retirement age, can die any moment, still must contribute to CPF! 100 year olds or more also must contribute to CPF!
9. And for those who were CONvinced to opt for higher interest rate, the CPF balance when they died would be transferred to their beneficiary's CPF accounts, not pay out in cash.
10. If you did not indicate that your beneficiary should received in cash on your demise, the money would not be paid out immediately in cash but transferred to their CPF accounts and subject to all the tangkap rules and terms.
Whew, there could be a few more for your own good new rules and terms that I may have missed out. But the above 10 items are suffice to let you know how you have been had when the original contractual agreement was to return everything at 55.
Singaporeans must be thankful and grateful for having such caring and thoughtful politicians to take care of them and their CPF money. Did they say you don't need enemies if you have such good and caring friends? Always thinking, planning and scheming on how to take care of you and your CPF money. Don't forget how much is sucked away by affordable and subsidised HDB flats.
PS. How many people would have been dead at the age of 60, 65, 70 and so on? What is the point of having so much money locked up by the govt in the CPF when one is dead?
74 comments:
The 69.9% also share the blame for our shit CPF situation.
"What is the point of having so much money locked up by the govt in the CPF when one is dead?"
From the innocent perspective of the commoner, there is no point keeping his money in the CPF or any Cunning Insurance Scheming Policies. It is better to take out the money and spend during the last few years of his long-suffering hard-working little-enjoyment miserable life.
From the clever, smart, innovative, cunning perspective of the ones who utilize the CPF funds, with lowly interest rates, there is a Huge Point to keep as much (if possible ALL) the other people's money in the CPF FOREVER! Why? So that there is no need to pay back.
Why kpkb and kpkb about our CPF?
Why? Why? Why?
Our CPF must be world best-EST. Yes world best-EST!
Otherwise how to get 70% at the last GE.
The masses must be very very pleased and very very happy with our CPF.
Hahaha............
In order to get back ur coffin monies, the only way out is to VTO the Papies. Otherwise its wat KJ said b4 u got the G u deserves, so serve u rite Sinkies.
Mr RB for item (6)
You have to set aside Minimum Sum for Medisave despite paying premium for Medishield.
When the MOH declared proudly that Singaporeans need not worry with big bills medical charges as they are covered by their Medshield Life Insurance, Singaporeans were relief and same time conned by them.
They had what's Insurance Companies called "excess" payments of your own Part substantial
Payment as high as nearly 20% for your operations.
Next Medishield had what's capped claimable amount for the operations.
So if an operations costs 20K, your first share part payment already come to 4K.
Next if Medishield were to cap claimable amount at only 10K, the balance 6K still have to come from your Medisave or cash.
In the end, you still have to pay 10K for a 20K operation and they only pay 10K.
So what's nonsense no need worry Big Medical Bills?
'How many people would have been dead at 60, 65, 70 and so on' unquote.
The saying that if you live up to age 60, every year your are alive is a bonus. If you live up to the age of 65, every month you are alive is a bonus and if you can live to age 70, every week that you are alive is a bonus. I think that saying is very true.
Forget about what they tell you about Singaporeans living well past the 80s or mid 70s. That is to tell you you must work until you retire because of death. That is also to justify their calling for you to work until you drop dead, and also that they can continue to extend the withdrawal age discreetly.
We knew years ago the NMP is a fake scheme to add firepower for the PAP on the pretext of having alternative voices in Parliament, just in case there is not enough opposition voices. But as in all schemes devised, such voices are not on the people's side but mostly on the PAP's? Saying that CPF is not our money is just one good example of what NMPs are there for.
Well, 70% should not have complaints about all this because they voted for it. 30% will have to suffer the consequences 'as collateral damage' to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
RB u forget to add the change in interest rate pay out. This one lagi jialat
KNN CCB.
Every time I hear or read about CPF (Cheat People Fuckers), my true blue blood boils until it becomes hot red, purple and black, and nearly come out of my mouth, vomit blood. This is my story:
I am 73 years old. I am still hardworking. Lost my job in the civil service because the smart guys said "you must go for early-retirement and go for second career" - got conned. So, took early retirement and got a small pension every month, AND the civil service is supposed to pay for my medical until I die, including my children under the age of 21. (I married at 65, and have to young children)
Cannot find job a decent job commensurate with my skills and past experiences - only available are security guards, toilet cleaners, food-court helpers, rubbish collectors, delivery boys, and taxi drivers - all need retraining in one form or another.
Chose the best of all the available jobs - became a taxi driver and saved some money to start a small business.
So, what is my point?
CPF sent me a letter that I have to pay Medisave - top up to the ceiling dictated by the CPF. Not only for myself but also for my two children in primary school.
Not enough. CPF Board dictated that I also pay for the insurance premiums for myself to cover my medical, and my two children's medical, despite I wrote to them stating that I am supposed to enjoy free medical care from the civil service.
They replied: Yes, the government pays for you one medical insurance policy and you pay another medical insurance policy.
So, I have two medical insurance policies, while others only need to have one.
Not enough, you complain some more: Your two children (age 5 and 7) must also pay for medical insurance - money deducted from your medisave account.
Like that also can?
KNN CCB.......
Hi V49 9.24am
I heard you............
But how come 69.9% are OK!
Why?
9.45am, alamak u asked like that. FrNkly you ask me I ask who?
9.42am, I lagi worst. My sons are working overseas so they don't have cpf. So I have to pay for them out of my cpf if not the next time they come home for visit will Kena tangkat at airport. I also need to pay for my aged parent if not will also Kena tangkat as no income to pay so I Kena from TOP and bottom. Soon my cpf will not be enough then all of us will be in jail?
Daft Sinkies will all kena from top to bottom.
Oral sex from the top, sodomy at the bottom.
But 60% love that! That is the beauty of it all.
Very soon, all the rocking in jail expenses will have to be paid by you under a scheme to deduct from CPF! Coffin money they also want to take!
What is the point of having so much money locked up by the govt in the CPF when one is dead?
RB
Ya hor, What is the Point? (WP)
But then hor, this is the govt 70% voted for.
So one may ask "Then what is the point of voting for such a govt?"
The answer was brilliantly provided by WP's Low Thia Khiang when he said: "The opposition is not ready to be govt so Sinkies are very scared they may accidentally vote the PAP out."
Correct or not. u say lah.
"But how come 69.9% are OK!"
69.9% are OK because they drink sewage water (shit, urine, sputum, menses and germs inside)! Their brains cannot think properly already. They are worse than daft Sinkies. They are known as Bo-chap Sinkies, and they are prepared to go to jail.
If all Sinkies refuse to pay the medisave insurance premiums, they can be sent to jail. Changi prison got good business. Must expand - build more prison cells to house 3 million Sinkies and new citizens.
The answer was brilliantly provided by WP's Low Thia Khiang when he said: "The opposition is not ready to be govt so Sinkies are very scared they may accidentally vote the PAP out."
10:43 am
But then one may ask "Why the opposition is not ready to be govt?"
RB, what are your views regarding this question?
Can we have a compulsory scheme to stop this group of mini$tars from collecting a huge sum of $alaries by the $$$millions? Like CPF, we can set a minimum sum of money they can receive, and lock up the excess until they are 70 y.o. I know the best way is VTO. Are there any other ways ? Please contribute and share if you have.
Confucius political philosophy, " A government which misrules and does not take care of the people must of necessity face the "Mandate of Heaven" and that is it should be removed if necessary by revolution. We are now in that similar scenario and the Mandate of Heaven " must be applied sooner than later so that the people will not have to suffer injustice anymore.
Have been suffering in silent for a long time.
@ RB
You and I have been going toe to toe on CPF for donkey's years. I have relentlessly stuck to one narrative, like a broken record, in the hope that most people would have "got it" by now. CPF IS NOT YOUR MONEY --- and I've explained, to the best of my ability, why it is the case.
2 nights ago, I had dinner with one of my mentors. He's in his 80s, ex-corporate guy, one of those "quiet types" well-connected to the old guard PAP who's in the background and unknown to most people. I brought up the subject of CPF and how many Singaporeans are really pissed off at the govt keeping the funds the people believed to be theirs, in ownership. And I got the explanation, which I will share when I have more time to write it.
The irony here is that the person who delivered the hard truth about CPF is a wheelchair bound cripple who one would think this is the last thing anyone in her predicament might say. Being a lover of theatre, the dramatic impact of this message is priceless. She was even complimented by PM Lee for her "excellent speech".
Many people have been hit by the perpetual tinkering of the CPF system by The State. I say "The State" because CPF is, at the end of the day, the direct responsibility of The President, the Head of State, and not the government per se. The govt is there to craft and manage policy, but the president (supposedly "non political") is ultimately responsible for CPF.
You might argue that "The President is manipulated by the government". That is a seperate conversation, and people risk getting sued. The Office of The President is non political, so to suggest that he or she might be "coerced" by the govt...you're inviting trouble if you go down that path. The "non political" aspect is very important. That means no matter what party gets into office, they cannot willy-nilly "release" the CPF, without Presidential approval. This point is LOST on every opposition supporter, so I will state it plainly: Even if the opposition wins and gets to govern doesn't mean you will automatically get your CPF money back.
Anyway, I take no pleasure in being vindicated. Many people might think I'm gloating over being right", I assure you I am definitely not.
Peace out.
@ all
Financial Repression aka "tangkap"
The minimum sum is to be increased to keep up with CPI increases, and less dependence on govt "top ups". At the moment $155k gives around 1.2k a month, about 9%.
Singapore enjoys one of the highest life expectancy rates in all of human history. We also have an ageing population. Therein is the double-edged sword. People are living longer, so they'll need more money to last them.
Millennials can expect their minimum sum to be in excess of $500k, maybe even a million.
@Matilar,
Your $155K is many years ago liao. This year is already $176K.
Next year (2020) will be $181K. After 2020, they haven't announced the formula yet, but is well expected by economists to follow at least the annual inflation rate.
@RB,
Your story contains about 35% factual errors or fake news.
However PAPies are equally to blame for setting up Sinkies for retirement failure. Chief of which was the "HDB asset enhancement policy" and "market-based subsidy" and allowing CPF to be used to buy resale HDB & private property in the 1st place.
Those who understand CPF, earn it. Those who don't, pay it. (Apologies to Einstein)
I know at least 3 retirees who get by on annual $30+K interests from their CPF balances. They can take out their $1+M CPF anytime, but choose to leave it inside. This is on top of their Minimum Sum monthly payouts.
These retirees are not elites or even top executives. Their last drawn salaries before they retired were roughly around $6K. 2 of them started working on just $300/month in the 1970s.
The common characteristics of these retirees: hardworking & thrifty, long working years of 35-40 yrs, stay in HDB flats bought directly from HDB (i.e. BTO in today's language), NEVER UPGRADE property.
Yes. We heard the "not-so-good" comments above.
But the fact is 69.9% had indicated 'YES" at the last GE!
The case is closed!
Hi 1.43pm.
Dont be so shy and so humble lah.
You must be one of the at least 3 retirees.
Very good for you.
Can you share share your "success" story, please?
From Lee Hsien Yang to Tan Cheng Bock:
""Congratulations to Tan Cheng Bock and the Progress Singapore Party. I have known Cheng Bock for many years and he has consistently put the interests of the people first. We are fortunate that he has stepped forward to serve Singapore.
I only recently learned that Cheng Bock had his first clinic at Ama Keng at the far end of Lim Chu Kang Road, a remote and poor area. I didn’t know it at the time, but this was very close to where I used to serve as a young armour officer at Sungei Gedong.
Today, Cheng Bock will groom future Parliamentarians who will serve our country and people before party or self. This is good for the future of Singapore. Cheng Bock is the leader Singapore deserves.”
Never, never, never push a man or woman against the wall or in a cul de sac. He/she will fight back with all the strength left to thr ladt drop of blood and the last breath of air.
Even a wounded lame dog will turn around and bite you, if cornered.
Stupid people will never heed wise people's advice.
@ 143
Thanks for the update. Yes, I too think the increases in minimum sum will track the increase in the CPI.
>> I know at least 3 retirees who get by on annual $30+K interests from their CPF balances <<
There are those also who took out their million, after selling the HDB at the market top (pocketing the profit), went to Australia, bought 2 house, rent one out and are still today living happily ever after.
I know several.
Many years ago, sinkies were already stupid to get out of UK and into the arms of PAP. Otherwise, we, especially poor folks, would have almost free healthcare, pensions, education and no mandatory ns. Long live the Queen.
@ b
The systems for social programs created by the PAP are far superior to the ones created in welfare states like most western democracies, where even the slogging hard poor end up paying 30-50% income tax.
You are very mistaken: there is no such thing as “FREE” --- someone ends up paying, whether it is by debt, inflation or taxes.
I have lived most my life in the People’s Socialist Commune of Australia, where most of us are taxed at about 40% in total: 30% tax plus 10% GST. On top of that we still pay MediCare Levy.
People who don’t trust govts --- like me --- go on to pay another couple of thousand per year for private medical cover. The constant failure of the govt run hospitals makes it wise to do so.
In Singapore, the “social welfare” is fully funded because the govt imposes FORCED SAVINGS (aka Tax) and public health is covered by COMPULSORY INSURANCE, and small payment on the part of patients.
Because of those measures, income & company taxes are kept low, people can make money, and they are responsible for their retirement savings. i.e. the more you contribute to CPF, the more you will receive in annuities.
In the west, your so-called “free pensions” are falling apart. When Greece etc went into crisis, govts had to cut pensions and free education because they were in deep shit.
No such thing as “free” lah. And the fairest system is MERITOCRACY. You want more money? Then create more value. Simple as that.
Long Live The Queen.
With hind-sight, it is better to be British Subject than to be a Singapore Citizen under the PAP rule.
Should not have surrendered the UK Citizenship for a lousy restrictive dictator's slave. What independence. It is meaningless to the slaves of a slavery regime.
During the Colonial Days, South East Asia Chinese migrants made much money and many were amongst the richest in Asia if not in the World.
Under the British, its Subject in Sin were given free healthcare and education.
b is right that Sinkies were far better of under the Brits.
to Matilah@8.40pm
You support CPF system? I guess you must be an endangered species in the blogosphere, mati lah.
Your argument is that Meritocracy is fairest and as we go old, the smarter you are the more money you have and therefore cpf is fair because you work hard you save and you enjoy your old age in relative wealth.
I disagree with you. Here's why.
1. A singpaore citizen's cpf savings is allowed by the government to be spend on housing, and due to fake news of pap propaganda,very large number of citizens had drained off their cpf into declining asset of HDB, or "approved investments" (which fail sometimes) because of overpriced flats fanned by government propaganda. Hence even someone who ranks high on the meritocracy ladder, may well have insufficient needs for retirement. Possiby, the top 25 percentile of "meritorious" citizens can still actually accrue the benefits of the system according to your concept of fairness. Thats not fair considering that the other 75 percentile had been cheated into overspending their cpf money on inflated declining assets, so, where are they going to get their money in old age and ill health, when their cpf monthly payout can only pay a pittance based on what left after all the toxic expenditures on fake assets (HDB).
2. A meritocracy system means that the bottom thirty percentile or thereabouts, will be in great trouble when they get old, EVEN if the govt had not faked the news about hdb being asset enhancement in perpetuity. Is it fair that people of lesser intelligence be forsaken by the State when they get old? Right now, we are hearing of people getting $250 a month from their CPF life. This could be a plumber, a carpenter, a waiteress, a meesiam seller, or even a small time singer or entertainer, etc. all of whom no doubt contribute to make singapore work in their healthy years. But they will draw zero money from the state when they go old and their cpf monthly will be very low. Meritocracy you say. But its not fair because not all humans have same capability, But on other hand all humans get old and unfit to work and earn eventually.
I think as for old age funds, i disagree with you totally that it should operate as a meritocracy model for the above reasons. I think its better to have a high tax on everyone, and then when they get old, they can draw from the state, regardless of whether they are Einstein IQ or Ah Beng IQ. As long as they are decent singpaoreans the state should support them in old age, as a benefit of citizenship.
ln the good old days, water was supplied free into the village im the form of standpipe and constructed mini dam. lt was free flow with no ration or any restriction.
MS is an elite
and
he raves elitism
just
like the members
living in ivory towers.
In Singapore, the reality today is that the original idea of meritocracy has been bastardised, just like the original aim of CPF and original mission of HDB and NTUC.
Meritocracy has, in practice today, been affected by elitist attitude and mentality, by cronyism and to a lesser degree by nepotism.
And the Civil Service today are endowed with kiasu-ism and kiasi-ism, developing into psychopathic and sycophantic behaviours.
So, the overall system is no more meritocracy but elitist capitalism coupled with over-dependency on a single power centre. It is just like a banyan tree. The tree itself expands and spread until only a few parasitic plants, creepers and strange worms and tiny insects can survive. The mass of the undergrowth simply withered out and die in due course of time, because sunlight is shut away from them.
This is pathetic and tragic. More than 40 years of nation-building has gone down the drain!
Just watched The Story of Minglan.
When Gu Er Lang found out that his uncles and step-mother had hidden his father's will from him and makan his inheritance money, the uncles sheepishly try to explain that they withheld his money as they scared he would fritter his money away.
Sounds familiar ??
You took my money and spent it. Then you turn around and tell me that you took my money because you are afraid I that I might fritter away my money?
Beware of Con Men (use generally to cover both men and women):
1. Con men usually think that others are stupid - cannot think for themselves.
2. Con men usually take away your money first and then devise a reason to bluff you and cover up his evil design.
3. Con men use bullying and intimidation tactics when you find out the truth; they turn around and accuse of trying to defame their name.
4. Con men may pretend to apologise but their hearts can never change - a con man is a con man forever - once tasted easy-come money, they can never give up their evil cunning ways/schemes.
@ Humble Ideas
I"m fine with disagreement. None of us has a monopoly on ideas. I don't "support" the CPF system per se --- as in blindly support, like religion. It is what we have, therefore being a practical person, I think the way forward for any individual is to work with what you have.
There are winners & losers in the CPF system. But the losers haven't really lost. There is still money in their name. Although they cannot touch it, they are going to get some return from it.
As for meritocracy. It is the fairest system. Here's why: You produce (i.e. create VALUE for others), then you are entitled to CONSUME what you produce. If you don't produce, how can you argue that it is "right" to expect someone else to pay for your consumption, unless of course they do it willingly, without coercion. Remember, before CPF or public health or public housing (aka "welfare"), people still managed to get ahead. Society didn't collapse, i.e. life went on. Sure, we have better lives now, but that is due to MANY factors, not just because "welfare" was introduced.
In the last few weeks, I've been going around the place, taking notes and photos. I've noticed many oldies working, for e.g. in food services etc. I have found them to be very polite, and reading their body language, reasonably content with what they're doing. They've obviously been trained, which means they've upgraded their skills, especially customer-service skills.
There is dignity in work; ALL work, which I call "producing VALUE for others". I find many Singaporeans still very snobbish about working in the service sector. I Australia, where I live, there is no such snobbery --- people respect each other, and people are "rated" on the content of their character rather than what job they do, how much they earn, whether they have a degree or not, or how rich they are.
Singaporeans I find are much less mature. If they've lost their high paying PMET job, they turn up their noses as becoming a cab driver or retraining to work in the food services sector. And to make it worse --- and shows great flaws of character --- they are positively TOXIC on the people who've replaced them. As is the case, it is usually a foreigner, and so RACIST sentiments come to the fore.
Instead of taking personal responsibility for anything and everything which happens in their life, these lack-of-character people strike out at the government, and at foreigners who are immediately condemned and blamed for whatever "downturn" has happened in their lives.
So we have: CPF, HDB, Meritocracy and competition for jobs. Is it that difficult or impossible to work with what you have and to make the best of it? It isn't as if the deck is so stacked against anyone willing to have a go to be reasonably successful. Singapore is full of opportunity. If it wasn't, foreigners wouldn't be competing to get in. Maybe foreigners see something the complaining locals don't? Maybe foreigners have better CHARACTER than our whining locals.
I leave you to be the judge.
@ 1154
I wish I had an ivory tower to live in, but I don't. My current homes in both cuntries are very modest. When I first moved to Australia as a hot-to-trot 22 yr old, I went for it like a bat out of hell. In a few years I had all the juicy fruits and was out-earning both my parents (still relatively young and working at the time) combined. Yes, I had something to prove. As a Singaporean (immigrant), competing against the average Australian was an easy game to win (back then. Not anymore).
However just pursuing material achievement for its own sake --- take it from me --- is a con game we all play on ourselves, and we burn precious resources doing it. I am a value guy: always produce VALUE for others, and in turn you will receive value. But "value" isn't just material stuff. You have to create value in your relationships --- family, friends, social lives...and the require resources of the non-monetary kind. Yes, we need material things, and it is nice to have the finer things in life. But when it gets to the point of OBSESSION, I find that very taxing on the mind. Too many things. Too many adverts that draw your attention to "new bright and shiny objects", on which our INSANE consumption-based economy thrives on.
So about 20 years ago, I rented a medium sized Skip bin, and mercilessly threw out everything I didn't need. I didn't even bother trying to sell the shit; just throw them out. Ever since then I've been a lot calmer and centred, and because I've also cut my expenses I find I don't have to work like an insane person to live, and constantly worry about "not having enough" (a fucking terrible way to live!). I also have more time to spend with my kaki-nangs.
So, no ivory tower lah. Right here, down on the ground, on terra firma in the real world; the real, unjust, unfair and unpredictable world, just the way I like it.
Matilah,
Whatever you said about meritocracy above is totally correct, but unfortunately you completely missed my points, which is basically meritocracy works when one is healthy.
If you re read my post, esp point 2, my point is: when we get frail and unable to work anymore, its unethical for the State to say that a smart person deserves to live, and a less smart person can to starve to death, and the state simply operate as a facilitator of each citizens stored "pension" and distances itself from any financial support.
I think the state must be responsible to provide at least 50% of the minimum sustenance level needed for the old retirees who are unable to work. Right now the CPF system is merely operating as a facilitator of 100% private to-each-his-own funds, its NOT A PENSION OR WELFARE SYSTEM AS EVERY CENT OF THE RETIREES income is derived from the level of his meritocracy and past earnings. I opine that this is not ethical. The state must be involved, maybe not 100% but definitely not zero% as it is today,no thanks to "meritocracy".
tell me tell me
enough of the crying above
but the fact is 69.9% given approval at last GE
what can you do now
dont waste time
you think can change the 69.9%?
hahaha............
WARNING to DOTARD TRUMP
Mexico should STOP exporting.Drugs For a Month....
Americans will be The Ones Climbing over the Wall
Cheers
@ HumbleIdeas
No one gets old "instantaneously", but everyone knows, of they are lucky, they will live to get old. Everyone, at some point will get sick, or injured where they are unable to earn an income and require (costly) medical attention. At the end of life, when one is old and sick the cost of medical expenses is 60-80% of what one would spend over an entire lifetime. It takes a long time to get old --- long enough to PREPARE for the eventuality.
These are "known knowns". Even to those sleepwalking through life are aware of this, as they have seen it happen to members of their own families and friends, again and again. How many funerals does one need to attend until these CERTAINTIES sink in?
Once this was figured out, thousands of years ago, even marginally intelligent people came to the same conclusion: There must be some provision put aside to take care of these "uncertain certainties". We know they will happen or could happen, we just don't know when and to what degree they will impact our lives.
Enter the invention of INSURANCE. You work, you earn, you spend to live. You also put something aside to cushion yourself. The world functioned quite well, people got on with their lives. Those who didn't prepare or were caught out were looked after by others, private charities, the community religious institutions (whose members prided themselves in being charitable)...and of course the "bad luck" ones just had to accept their fate. (actually we all, at some point have to accept our fate).
Here are points you've missed, and misunderstanding of function:
1. The State's function is "act" in accordance with the constitution, the law --- its own law --- which it has to follow and enforce. "Ethics" and "morality" are personal subjective abstract ideas for the individual because they require individual ACTION. No action, no consequence.
Ethics and morality have no place in the function of The State, which is just an abstract, a construct which forms the bedrock of how society is organised and where the limits are of what people, organisations and the government can do, and proscribe the things they cannot do.
Justice has to end, somewhere. The State, by way of the courts is the final arbiter of legal matters and conflicts between parties. One can argue that The State is "wrong", but whatever The State says, is final and binding. Whether we say so or not, we all IMPLICITLY agree to this. When The State is "wrong" on too many things and the lives of the people become unbearable, The State FAILS, the people revolt....and you can predict what happens next. (Not good)
2/2 @ HumbleIdeas
2. >> Right now the CPF system is merely operating as a facilitator of 100% private to-each-his-own funds, its NOT A PENSION OR WELFARE SYSTEM AS EVERY CENT OF THE RETIREES income is derived from the level of his meritocracy and past earnings. I opine that this is not ethical. <<
You are right. It is not "ethical", because it is not supposed to be. It only has to be LEGAL, and JUST to those who've worked hard and used their time and resources WISELY.
But, just for a moment, for the sake of argument about ethics: Do you think it is "ethical" for a non-productive person who needs support, to claim from a productive person and thru The State, force the productive person to render support? I think not. Just because you are having a bad day doesn't mean you have a right to force anyone else to help you. If they help you, they will do it VOLUNTARILY, and to me (and most people) that would be ETHICAL. Forcing money out of someone who just happens to be "richer" than you to give you help is akin to extortion or worse, robbery. Think about this, please, carefully , because this definition of "ethics" in completely opposite and in direct conflict to your beliefs, which means your mind will AUTOMATICALLY reject it.
3. Meritocracy is a big scary word to people. OK, let's pare it down to the simple basic: REWARD. You produce something beneficial to others, you get reward. I.e. creating value for others --- which enhances their lives and helps them solve problems --- they reward you. If you don't, you don't get a reward. It doesn't get more straightforward or simpler than that: If you are not willing to help others, good luck to you, because they won't "help" you back.
4. WE OUTSOURCE *EVERYTHING*. It is impossible to live if we didn't outsource everything. Think about it: from the time you wake up from your bed, in your home (which were made by complete strangers), to when you turn on the tap for water (all outsourced), to getting dressed then into transport to go to work (all outsourced). We make our way thru the day enjoying the fruits of labour, capital and organisation --- VALUE created by MILLIONS of strangers throughout TIME --- so that we can live at such a high level. The average person today enjoys more WEALTH than kings and rulers of previous eras.
Therefore opportunities to CREATE VALUE and to be PRODUCTIVE are always present, and for modern civilisation to continue, for societies to be peaceful and wealthy someone has to be doing the jobs to make this all happen.
You can see why I am less than complimentary to people who whine, whinge and complain and expect "free money" from The State. All of us have to work, have to produce simply to benefit others. Those who won't are just IRRATIONAL, EGOTISTICAL, SELF-CENTRED and uncaring about the welfare of their fellow humans. As far as I'm concerned, these "free loaders" can all go straight to hell. Many people are going to be incensed and outraged at my attitude. But that won't change THE FACTS: if you won't help others, then you don't deserve to be helped by others.
MATilah.
Broadly speaking you are correct. However you cannot be saying that just because a person's cpf account is only worth $20,000 when he is 65 old and frail, he had been a free loader, he did not contribute sufficiently to society, serves him right for having so little money, don't ask the meritocratic smarties to contribute ("rob" you implicated) to his old age. You are imagining that all those with less money are parasites and should never "rob" from the Einsteins. Please lah, there are myriads of decent honest hard-working in any society. E.g,, the uncle who clear tables at foodcourts, a janitor, a lorry driver, a meter reader, parking attendant. In every way he does add value to your life as you well described the idea of Outsourcing . But he will be left on his own devices as he proceed to his end years. You are saying, it's ok, he has insufficient meritocracy-points in his life time, let not burden the State with welfare for him. Do remember that the world is not made up of freeloaders and Einsteins only. In between there are many common folks who worked an entire life making your life better too. The state should step in to supplement their retirement funds partially. Not zero, which is our for system.
What is the Mati Guy babbling about?
State Welfare for wellbeing of citizen are money from the People.
The People's Contributions are for the Advancement and developments of the Country and the Citizenry in lnfrastructure, Health, Security, Education and Social Wellbeing of All.
The Peoples Money is administer by the Regime and also use by them to remunerate themselves.
More often than not, most regimes enrich themselves with the Money yhey collect from the People than using it to better the Livings of the Citizenry.
A clever guy such as Matilah Singapura certainly should be amongst the Most Enlightened.
However, ego and elitism may have overwelmed him.
Typo in last line. Which is our CPF system., I meant.
Both of them think they are smart and knows everything. Wanted to impressed each other with their long theory. Mostly rumbling. Who cares. Yawn Yawn.
@ HumbleIdeas
The oldies who are lorry drivers, food court workers are the salt of the earth. I am not talking about them They know the VALUE of work to create VALUE for others. So instead of becoming "beggars and freeloaders" they go out and WORK.
I say again, no one gets old instantly. Everyone has a LIFETIME to prepare for the inevitable. There is no excuse. There are those who are disabled and mentally incapacitated, but I'm not talking about them. They are looked after in every developed society, and are a minority. Most people don't have a problem voluntarily chipping in to help the totally helpless.
But if one has the capacity to work, then work. Don't freeload.
@ 233
>> State Welfare for wellbeing of citizen are money from the People. <<
Of course. Except for the earnings of sovereign funds investment, ALL THE MONEY in the realm is from The People.
>> The Peoples Money is administer by the Regime and also use by them to remunerate themselves. <<
Of course. No one works for "free". However, after how many elections, The People have signalled that they really don't mind paying their leaders OBSCENE AMOUNTS OF MONEY as long as The People get good lives to live. That is not new. It's been going on for nearly 40 years already lah...2 fucking generations.
>> More often than not, most regimes enrich themselves with the Money yhey collect from the People than using it to better the Livings of the Citizenry. <<
Are you sure? I left Singapore in 1977 and moved to Australia. In all that time both cuntries have advanced, as have most other cuntries in the world. However the advancement of Singapore has bewildered even the most anti-Singapore political scientists and economists.
We do live in a very happening cuntry, or in my case Hotel. The govt and the people have made the cuntry great At least pause for a while and consider being GRATEFUL instead of HATEFUL.
Is that "enlightened" enough for you?
@ HumbleIdeas
It behooves you to do a little bit of research before attempting to argue a point. I not telling you, I'm making a suggestion.
There is plenty of help available for people who are disabled and dependent on others to live:
Persons With Disabilities Living in Singapore
Oi humbleideas, you are totally sick in the brain.
To posit that the poor young, old and feeble getting help from the State are crutch, entitle centric and parasitic itself is tantamount to apathy.
Every society has some forms of State Welfare to support and care for its citizen, especially in healthcare and education.
To say that there are people wanting to be freeloaders, is an accusation that only numbskull will make.
ln fact,
there are more workaholics than lazy people. Only those mentally retarded show themselves to be useless and completely non-productive or purposeful.
On the other hand, politicians that exploit the people to enrich themselves sinfully, are the culprits that are entitlement dependent. Many are daylight robbers whilst others swindle, scam and exploit as much as they can.
Malfeasance in politic is one of the most common malady of most countries.
The rich and elite are not much different from politicians.
About your #9 and #10.
"9. And for those who were CONvinced to opt for higher interest rate, the CPF balance when they died would be transferred to their beneficiary's CPF accounts, not pay out in cash.
10. If you did not indicate that your beneficiary should received in cash on your demise, the money would not be paid out immediately in cash but transferred to their CPF accounts and subject to all the tangkap rules and terms.".
The money is paid out in CASH by default. It's mentioned at cpf website https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/other-matters/cpf-nomination-scheme, under the part "what are the types of cpf nomination".
@ "don't really understand human nature nor psychology/ neuroscience 611:
I do suggest you upgrade your skills, and not allow your confirmation biases and closed mind to sabotage you from having a meaningful life. ;-)
>> To say that there are people wanting to be freeloaders, is an accusation that only numbskull will make.
ln fact,
there are more workaholics than lazy people. <<
The thing about humans is that they are poor judges of their own character and behaviour. That is why we need external "feedback mechanisms" to shed light on how we are conducting ourselves in the real world; in the society we live in.
This is why free market CAPITALISM, meritocracy-based, just and equitable; WORKS. The capitalist system gives you INSTANT FEEDBACK on whether you are creating value for others so that you can increase your own stores of value and ability to consume.
The problem with freeloaders and other forms of mooching bums is that they are largely UNAWARE of their own harmful, non-value-creating BEHAVIOUR. They are excellent at complaining and whining, and going to Hing Lim on Saturday afternoons to commune with their kindred. Misery LOVES company. Shared misery is one of the most expensive time wasters as it does nothing to create VALUE for others. There isn't even any joy or happiness or hope to be transmitted. Many people have SHITTY days...we all do. And people who bring hope and joy do create temporary value for those who happen to be struggling that time.
But no, these egotistical mooching bums just go around in their dark sullen moods shitting on everything. Everything seems to be a problem This cannot work, that cannot work. They fail because it is always "someone else's fault". So off to Hng Lim to gabfest with like-minded sad people, build up that negativity...and then do absolutely NOTHING to change the situation or even their own lives. Time invested delivers no benefit. Just another Saturday afternoon BURNT.
But...it is their lives to waste. It is their lives to poison with their own self-generated TOXICITY. People are free....to be wrong 🤡
Matilah,
You are arguing that, because people age in a gradual manner, people should not be lazy, therefore they are obliged to work work work and work till death? Matilah, you are saying that each person deserves what he gets, must continue to work and never expect to derive welfare (not even 1 cent) from other more intelligent earners, even when same, reaches a frail age of 65 for example??
I take your point that you will exempt your ruthless thoughts to those sick and infirm (there is no need for you to send me those url links).
What I am most concerned with is the average IQ person like a grocery store packer, a data entry operator, a waitress, etc. They work hard all their life and are part of the wonderful outsourcing chain that adds value to your life as you put it. You are insinuating that these people, deserve to get merely $250 for life because serve them right for not being able to earn more in their younger years, serve them right for not planning ahead to buy insurance schemes, investments etc.?
But matilah, have a heart,even if someone wants to contribute more to society, they are bound by their brain size and IQ. You expect a waitress to be able to invent a router or invent a cure for cancer? In their own way these ordinary people help singapore prosper. When they go old and run out of cpf money, you will tell them go to hell, you are not meritocratic smart enough get of my elite uncaring face, dont burden the state to support you? Are you a numbskull (see Anon. 5:40 Line 4)
In order for society to be more cohesive and to ensure and entice people to remain loyal within the country, we cannot use your stringent STINGY no welfare model, matilah.
Lets put it this way, there are two extremes,
1. Using a meritocratic Matilah based fake "pension scheme" like cpF which is nothing but a national bank storing citizens' money each according to his own meritocratic rewards of his own labour in his lifetime. Zero money from the state to support old aging citizens who would like to take a break but unable to because money no enough. These old aging (but not invalid infirm and sick) citizens shall NEVER "rob" the smarter folks of their well deserved accumulted wealth.
2. Super generous welfare pension benefits like in Canada, financed by very very high tax on everybody.
These extremes can be moderated and here is my solution. Meritocracy will determine how much money is in your cpf and how much you can draw out each month till death. However, if the amount is below the minimum sustenance level, the state should step in to help, up to say 50% of the sustenance level. The amount disbursed by the state can be on tiered basis, start small but increase and build up each year.
Think out of the box, not in extremes at either end!
@ all
Complaining about politicians is like complaining about the weather: it is pointless. Sooner or later some politician will always get in from being elected. There is no getting around that.
If you think you can do a better job, go ahead and throw your hat in the ring. Maybe you'll get voted in and you can show us all how a high and mighty, super moral and super ethical human being does it. Lead, by example...or continue bickering and whinging Up to you, and we'll be the judge 🤣
The question ultimately falls into your camp, because it is about your one-and-only-life: given the situation, what are YOU going to do about it. How are YOU going to live, and craft out a "good life"?
I would suggest that turning to The State for "help" or to leech off the fortunes of others --- firstly by calling them nasty names and insinuating that they are all corrupt --- then attempting to "take their stuff away" by law (excessive taxation) are not the ways DECENT PEOPLE would conduct themselves.
People like to vote for politicians who will "rob the rich and help the poor". They usually end up with a politician who robs EVERYBODY.
It is situations like this where I find pleasure in sitting back in my easy chair, and WATCHING THE WORLD BURN, BABY BURN! 😂🤡☠️👻
@ Humble Ideas
Yeah, I don't agree. I'm sticking to my principles: Create value, don't steal or mooch from others, prepare for the future, and be responsible for everything which happens to you (even though it's not your fault).
The last point is key. Most people can't accept it --- they have to blame someone or something and expect someone or something to "rescue" them.
You are free to follow your own ideals. I'll stick to mine They have served me well, even during the times I wasn't doing so well. Fortune and famine are temporary. One should not "cling" to them, lest one goes crazy being so obsessed and emotionally stimulated all the time. (like being on drugs --- addicted to "happiness" or "misery")
Cheers.
To matilah,
I noted and truly understand your mind now. You are probably LeeKuanYew reincarnation.
Cheers
http://humbleideas.com
@ Humbleideas
>> You are probably LeeKuanYew reincarnation. <<
You know that that is scientifically impossible right? 😉
Here's the way I look at it: everyone is an INDIVIDUAL whether they like it or not, whether they realise it or not. And every individual's life is a one-time, one-shot deal.
Make of the indisputable facts as you will Good luck. (because probability ALWAYS has the FINAL say. Randomness and uncertainty, no one no matter what they do, can escape that)
The Gov/Autority executes the Tax Regime for the benefit and betterment of the country and hence the citizenry in betterments of nation building and peoples wellbeing.
Yet,
this Matilah Guy is accusing people og leeching, freeloading and being parasite to elite like him.
Philosophising with a numbskull aint enlightening dude.
To anon:8:07
Matilah is actually not at all against SG tax régime. On the contrary, he fully support SG tax régime which dispenses Zero to support non meritocratic people, only giving shreds to the sick and truly invalids. His view point is 100% aligned to our present CPF system, which is, zero handouts. All your CPF is just your own earnings, CPF is merely a super bank, Matilah considers this as excellent and fair .
As he is a natural aristocrat, with little feelings, that's why I said he is lky incarnated.
Cheers
http://humbleideas.com
@ HumbleIdeas
OK a bit of context here. I was not always in favour of the CPF system In fact I was the one who called it out as a political tool used to manipulate voters, as well as being a tax to fund a legalised Ponzi Scheme. I still have my skepticism about it, but after a long conversation and explanation from one of my mentors, I have shifted my opinion.
And it seems to me that the main gist of my posts (about creating value for others, etc) have been missed, due to people's inability to control their emotions, and their propensity for not taking responsibility for their lives, choosing instead to blame "outside forces" for their less-than-optimal station in life. That's fine --- people have the right to be wrong and to behave in self-sabotaging ways, as long as I don't have to PAY for their lapses in judgement. (I will never change my mind on that point).
The best rejoinders I get are ad hominem, even Humble Ideas (who is against ad hominem, and is an engineer) has decided in his mind that I am a "reincarnation of LKY", which the more rational among us will know is IMPOSSIBLE.
One is PAP Asslicker. The other one is PAP Mole
“You are probably LeeKuanYew reincarnation”
———————————————————————————
Too much imagination. LOLOL
Make me want to puke.
Of course. Except for the earnings of sovereign funds investment, ALL THE MONEY in the realm is from The People. Matilah
How many of you agree with this statement? In Matilah's view, the money earned by sovereign fund management is not the people's money.
Ask a few questions. If you are the owner of the money, would you let the fund managers decided their own income, make money, pay themselves crazy, lose money continue to pay themselves crazy?
And no need to tell you how they invest, how much they make and how much they lose, just trust them to tell you what they want you to know as the truth?
And most important of all, does the fund managers have your approval and consent to manage your money? The fund managers would be completely useless without your money to let them play and gamble away with no risk to their own money. To them it is OPM.
And in this case, gamble like crazy also can, anyhow buy also can, anything also can buy and sell.
mr rb.,
i think you need to understand this matilah more. After long chats with him, i see his point of view, and only if you see it this way, you can never unlock his mind.
Matilah believes that there is no absolute law per se., because all are illusions, and whoever has the power IS the law. Thats why he argues that the honduras people and the people from Mayflower who drifted to US, has about as equal rights to the land of native american indians. It makes no difference, as long as you have the means to implement the rules, and the victimised parties do not object or are unable to overturn the status quo, that is law, everything else is a illusion and fake. WINNER TAKES ALL.
Therefore because the majority people of singapore consent to being confiscated of their "rights", the system is accepted. There is no such thing as rights in his mind. He has also a heartless and merciless view of state welfare system, believeing that any able-bodied retired old man wanting to take some money from the State for a meal to supplement insufficent cpf monthly payouts, is a parasite to society, because he wasnt meritoriuous enough in his lifetime to fund his retirement adequately, so help him god. End.
http://humbleideas.com
Redbean, just ignore him lah. No point arguing with him. Waste time.
You have no rights. You have temporary privileges.
https://youtu.be/hWiBt-pqp0E
D'accord. わかります. Faham. 明白。
http://humbleideas.com
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. – Marcus Aurelius
Everyone can have their own opinions, views and perspectives.
EVerything can be fake.
We may even be living in a fake world.
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