The first was a statement jointly issued by the late Lee Kuan Yew and ESM Goh in 2011: “The younger team must always have in mind the interests of the older generation. This generation who has contributed to Singapore must be well-looked after.” Minister Heng says that this was a principle that he continues to be guided by....
Meanwhile, some 17km away from the Hotel Miramar where the PAP event took place, Secretary-General of the SDP Dr. Chee Soon Juan was at a coffeeshop at Bukit Batok West Avenue 6 last to chat with residents. Sharing a picture on his Facebook page, he shared 2 stories of the lives of residents in their 60s.
The first had around $247k in his CPF after working for 42 years. He would not withdraw the monies and retire as he wanted, as these funds were locked up. Another resident was unable to work because of an illness; he thus wrote to the CPF Board to release him some funds for his sustenance but this was declined. As a result, he had to seek help from charity organisations and his family even had to cut down their meals to twice a day.
Dr. Chee then concluded that these were cases of “Ordinary Singaporeans playing by the rules, paying their taxes but ending up after a lifetime of work unable to live in security. They face a government callous to their hardship, impervious to their pleas.”
The above is quoted from an Editorial piece in TRE title 'A tale of 2 politicians'. In both cases the govt is very caring. For the seniors in general, there are many schemes to lower the cost of living like Pioneer Generation, cheaper transport fares, discounts here and there.
In the second case, the seniors that cannot touch their CPF money, what $247k, they are be very grateful to the govt for protecting their life savings. If the govt did not lock their money up, they would soon spent until nothing left. Some would go to Batam to enjoy life that only money can buy and then return home with pockets emptied. See, now they may complain that they have money only printed in CPF statements but cannot touch, but they can still smile and appreciate the money stated as belonging to them, with many zeros.
These seniors just did not know how good the govt is to them. Luckily only a few will not appreciate this. Many really do and many would vote the PAP to power again in the next GE to protect their money so that the money would forever be there in their CPF accounts, even after they die. No where in the world would a govt care so much for the seniors to keep their money under high security vault, would not be stolen, would not be lost.
And while they feel so comforted and secure with so much money in their CPF, money that would make them very rich in third world countries, they can continue to work till they die as table cleaners in the food courts.
Be thankful, be grateful. Got money in the CPF is better than no money in the CPF right? And the money earns higher interest rates some more. The only other organisation or bean that can give higher interest than CPF is redbean. Anyone wants to keep his life savings with redbean, 10% interest, but cannot take back, will be kept in perpetuity? You can only see the monthly statements that showed how fast the money is ballooning with the high interest rate and be very happy ever after.
55 comments:
If they are over 55yo, should at least allow them to take $1k a month out to support themselves if they are unemployed or very sick. $1k per month is peanut to the ministers, right.
gov cannot not provide reasonable welfare to the people cos people pay tax based on gross income not net income like corporations. otherwise it is stealing.
@ Say NO to the Welfare State:
Whatever Singapore dishes out as "welfare", is carefully calculated and fully-funded. Our CPF system (not your money) wins praises all over the world from finance professionals and governments.
Dr Chee's wrong premise: CPF is your money. No it is catergorically not, in the strict sense. It is the pool of permanent capital by which you can some of the "yield" when you retire, as annuity.
There is no argument when people say "CPF belongs to me". Stop the conversation, go do something else more productive. It is improbable that you'll be able to change someone's mind when they already made up their mind that they are correct, and instead of challenging their own assumptions and pre-suppositions, choose instead to double-down on their wrong premises in the hope that eventually they will be proven "right". π
Everyone, if they live long enough, will eventually become a "senior". Say you start working at 25 (after NS and tertiary education), and plan to retire at 65. You have 40 motherfucking years to PREPARE ADEQUATELY for your eventual retirement...starting with attending courses or reading books on personal finance and implementing simple disciplined actions like saving and investing.
However if you have blown those decades talking cock at the void deck and kopitiam, complaining about "the govt this, the govt that"....enjoying the misery your company attracts...then you are going to be SORRY, and in Singapore, our Cultural Anthem is You die, your business. Everyone is aware of this, many don't like it, but culture creates REALITY in peoples' minds, so it behoves you to take note, pay attention and be actively kiasu as far as your financial future requires you to be.
"You die your business" and "Active Kiasuism"** are sides of the same coin...inseperable cultural artifacts. This "magic coin" is the reason we're a proud cuntry of so many millionaires...so many people who become financially independent before 50, many in their 20's or 30's.
** Active Kiasuism is when kiasu people perceive a threat/ issue/ something requiring serious attention and then figure it out and act rationally with a fixed objective in mind. Ordinary kiasuism is PASSIVE. #1 method is to congregate at Hong Lim on a weekend (burned weekend...only 52 every year) to complain and commiserate in collective outrage, frustration and sadness. After said weekend has passed...nothing changes. Why? Passive kiasuism, that's why.πππ€‘
Many Sinkies who thought that they are now well to do and think that they are Invincible and that their Good Times are forever used to critise those that are NOT better off than them.
Deemed them as losers and many insults.
Little do they know when the situation is been reversed, than their sufferings will begin.
Princes could be Paupers overnight and the reversal is very true.
When tragic events strike them then it would be their retributions.
Just a terminal sickness that strikes them or even one of their own loved one will bring them to their knees.
So, do not be naughty as the saying Pride comes before a Fall is very apt.
Then they will start crying heaven and earth and fathers and mothers and no one will pity them.
For they had condemned many as losers and crying for their own CPF's monies
Anyone wants to keep his life savings with redbean, 10% interest, but cannot take back, will be kept in perpetuity?
RB
Hahahaha, RB you must return back bit by bit lah say, after age 65 like what CPF did.
Another thing. CPF has credibility that they will do what they say, even though what they said is not really that good.
Whereas you have no credibility that you will do what you say, even though what you say is very good.
Like that who will dare to put money with you?
That's the difference between you and the CPF.
And that's also the difference between Chee Soon Juan and Lee Hsien Loong.
Dr Chee's wrong premise: CPF is your money. No it is catergorically not, in the strict sense. It is the pool of permanent capital by which you can some of the "yield" when you retire, as annuity.
Matilah 9:39 am
KNN, even Matilah also want to make Chee Soon Juan kena collateral damage.
Looks like Chee Soon Juan really deserve to kena collateral damage jialat jialat.
Like that coming election sure die one.
Hi all good morning
No need to say so much and kpkbssssss about cpf cannot take out this and that lah!
The masses will still die die die die die die vote for pap no matter what! Pap knows!
So don't waste time thinking hoping and dreaming! Just think of 3Ms.
Please remember. Living here... you die your business!...... No money no talk!
As said Many many many times before, SG is already like that loong loong loong loong loong loong ago liao.......
What can you do now? You tell me lah! Only lan-lan!
Can only just TCSSssssssss and kpkbsssss!
Correct?
One recent ads for thought:
A man & wife (inside a car) got stuck on a cliff helplessly. Suddenly a A man came from sky to their rescue. The man ask Aren't u help us? The A man replied Well it's only 30% off the cliff wait until its 60% then I will use my powers to help u then and he flied off. The man still waited there helplessly with a parrot flown onto his car.
This cud be wat most of the Sinkies seniors & elderly got stuck in that kind of scenario but the sad thing is their coffin monies don't even smell it till last drop of their breath. So the coming erection better think twice wisely before u gonna cast your vote to.
Like that coming election sure die one.
10:31 am
Politically, Chee Soon Juan died long ago already.
But physically he is still very OK because he has to die politically to live physically.
If not, how else could he have survived and even raise a family with no job other than as SG of SDP? Even his wife is also not working, u know.
And I prayed to the God of Israel.
To deliver Singaporeans from the curse of PAP and CECA.
And God said;
Worry not, worry not.
Vengence is mine.
I will install 25 Opposition MPs into parliament to defend Singaporeans and
question PAP.
I will install illness into PAP's leadership team.
Cancer, stroke, heart attacks.
These diseases will be the constant companions of anybody who choose to be PAP's leaders.
And if PAP does not cancel the CECA treaty with India.
I, the God of Israel, will visit diseases upon the families of PAP leaders.
Just a parody.
Worry not, worry not.
PAP can continue to safely bully Singaporeans.
@ 1031
Aiyah, dun say lidat lah. I have nothing against Dr Chee. In fact, I rather admire him...his heart's in the right place, but he cannot face the unique realities of Singapore's polity.
Like Kenneth Jeya, Dr Chee seeks to mould Singapore into some kind of "Social-Liberal democracy" based on western Renaissance values. CANNOT LAH!...but hey, keep trying if you must.
He has failed to notice the Confucian-based cultrual aspects of our polity: that we are a republic, not a democracy. We use "guided democratic" processes to choose our "Benign Dictatorship" government. The Singaporean People have chosen, who in their collective mind are "worthy stewards", other Singaporeans who are deemed to possess the "magic", to lead and run the cuntry.
Those who are against accuse the rest of "being stupid" or "living in fear".
Seriously? Are you POSITIVE, 100% that the above assumptions are true? Gimme a break lah.
No, I am merely making an observation that in this case Dr has started his argument with a false premise.
To argue that "CPF must be returned" he has first to PROVE that CPF actually belongs 100%, no questions asked, do as you please...etc... to its members. Sorry, that is not the case and has yet to be PROVEN as FACT
Time to move the fuck on!
Matilah, what rubbish and twisted logic are you talking. If CPF contributions are not the workers money, then why forced the people to pay monthly contributions. CPF should be scraped for good for at the end of the day it is just another ponzi scheme to legally or to be more exact illegally sucking away hard earned money from workers. The way CPF is operated led people to perceive rightly or wrongly that the scheme tend to end up with enriching the politicians.
The original term of CPF is that workers contribute to the scheme on the day they start working and at the age of 55 they can withdraw the total sum of their accumulated contributions plus interest. However, as time passes by the authority deem fit to breach the term of the agreement with impunity at the gross expense and losses of the workers, the proletariat.
Matilah, it's time you wash and clean your rusted brain so as to get rid of your distorted thinking.
No wonder people everywhere have been saying that in almost all western democractic type of countries petty thieves are found in the streets but rogues and scoundrels and big time thieves and robbers are found in the avenues of power in the parliaments.
The world need a shake up to destroy western democracies starting with the rogue country the Evil Empire, USA, the evil of all evil and the fountain head of all terrorists.
Eagles Eyes.
@ Eagle Eyes
Aiyah, please lah...i don't live in a world of "should be's" like you and your loser friends.
I live in REALITY. CPF should be scrapped. BUT IT WON'T BE...wanna bet? π
I live in REALITY. CPF should be scrapped. BUT IT WON'T BE...wanna bet?
Matilah 10:56 am
This one I clap, clap.
And if only the Sinkie opposition will also live in REALITY.
If they do, they would not even want to exist if they are not ready to be govt.
Unless they are paid moles to make the Sinkie opposition look stupid so PAP can win. LOL
Singapore is already slipping into a welfare state by the looks of things like workfare, edufare and whatever farce. People, some young and not that old, are refusing to work, and are not ashamed to ask for handouts, unlike the old man's generation, where asking the Social Welfare for aid was a shameful thing to do. How attitudes have changed!
As for who can better take care of elderlies, things are not really clear cut, with pros and cons thrown in. I am not against Dr Chee showing examples, but when it comes to reality, will he be able to deliver? Politicians promise the moon and the stars, but when it comes to the crunch, all will be forgotten and is business as usual whoever takes over. That is precisely what is happening in Malaysia and Harapan.
Singaporeans are such that if one or a few are given advantages, everyone will jump on the bandwagon. After giving the Pioneer Generation packages, those on the border started asking for likewise advantages and the Merdeka Package was trotted out. I wonder what is next to be invented and dangled at the next GE?
Now what is going to happen to the CPF with massive withdrawals for housing, foreigners taking out money when they leave for home and paying all retirees their dues in full? It will be bankrupted for sure. Who will we blame when that happens? If anything, we ought to learn something from the Pension funds of the West, most of which are insolvent and will not be able to pay pensioners further down the road.
I am not against Dr Chee showing examples, but when it comes to reality, will he be able to deliver?
11:42 am
From his every election defeat, including even by-election, you can tell that voters have no confidence at all that he can deliver.
I mean, first and foremost, how can he deliver when his party SDP can only contest 11 or less seats in an election?
Even if SDP can win all seats it contested, can he become Prime Minister?
If he cannot, which ruling party will implement SDP's excellent party manifesto? PAP? LOL
I hope Chee Soon Juan, or for that matter any other opposition leader, can wake up to the above reality.
Unless there is a revolution, which is impossible, now is a futile attempt to hope for change when all the avenues and loopholes have been closed and government departments have all been hijacked, neutralised and neutered by the PAP.
Even 70% of voters have been castrated by the PAP. Wonder why birth rates are so low? What hope is there left?
@ 12.33pm
"What hope is there left?"
Worry not. Worry not.
Please join me in prayers to God.
We pray for 25 Opposition MPs to be elected into parliament.
We pray for the disease and death to PAP leaders and their family members.
Whereas you have no credibility that you will do what you say, even though what you say is very good.
Like that who will dare to put money with you?
That's the difference between you and the CPF.
And that's also the difference between Chee Soon Juan and Lee Hsien Loong.
October 28, 2019 10:27 am
Anon 10:27am, you are so idiotic. But what to expect from an IB? Uncle's suggestion does not need any credibility. And he would so what he said, there is no need to return the money. Only stupidity has no cure Sinkies would believe this is a real suggestion.
UNDER THE BANYAN TREE - Futile To Oppose
Not to run down or discourage the opposition parties. However, not say I want to say but I must say the TRUTH that hurts deeply:
Most opposition parties' leaders in Singapore are either moles or opportunists. Only a very few are genuine. The genuine ones did not and will not last long. Either the system pissed them off, or they themselves pissed off from the system after a few years of getting-wiser experiences.
Therefore, no opposition politics can change the present PAP Government that is playing Dominance Politics, like the US Government dominating the whole world. As a result of this Dominance strategy, both have evolved to become huge Banyan Trees.
The PAP controls all the three Branches of Government (Legislative, Judiciary and Executive) and the Labour Movement (NTUC). That means PAP controls, leads, manages and runs the Parliament, SAF, Police, Law and Judiciary, Intelligence Community, Banking and Finance, Housing and Development, Trade and Industries, Environment, Health, Education, Social Services, Transportation, Communication, SPH and all mass media, PA and all Grassroots organizations, etc.
In other words, PAP is everything and everywhere. It literally runs your life from cradle to grave.
Note: Even every single opposition parties' members' life is being run by PAP.
That means, PAP can choose to either run you up or run you down. Or, leave you alone (i.e. you die your own business).
With the existing situation, how can any opposition party compete against the Banyan Tree PAP? Only creepers and parasites are able to survive under a Banyan Tree. Why? Because all sunshines are blocked off by its huge-wide-thick canopy and all nutrients and water in the soil are sucked up by its deeply penetrated and widely spread roots.
Yes, you have to be CREEPERS (e.g. CECA Indians, Matilah and WSG) or PARASITES (e.g. IBs, Cronies, Grasslooters, Entitled Elites) in order to survive healthily under the PAP Banyan Tree.
Opposition parties stand NO CHANCE to even dream of taking over the Banyan Tree PAP. Chiam See Tong and Low Tia Kiang knew this long ago. That's why they never dare to become the driver. They only served as co-drivers!
What is said does not necessary mean what is going to be done.
Politicians say one thing before they are elected, but forgot what they said after they are elected.
If politicians can do that, what of us mere mortals? TCSS is for entertainment - forgotten by the next session!
In other words, PAP is everything and everywhere. It literally runs your life from cradle to grave.
Frog Outside Glass 12:56 pm
But how come PAP can do that?
How come ruling parties in other countries cannot do that?
But how come PAP can do that?
How come ruling parties in other countries cannot do that?
1:23 pm
How come?
Because in Singapore, many smart people can make lots of money to enjoy good life even if PAP govt is lousy. So why want to fight PAP?
In other countries, many smart people cannot make money whether their govt is good or lousy.
So they join opposition to make it strong to fight the ruling govt, or to replace it for a better life.
///How come ruling parties in other countries cannot do that?///
Thousand and one reasons. Even if I tell you all the reasons, it is a waste of time. You will not put them into use because you cannot do so. You are just asking for the fun of TCSS.
If you are really serious, go and enroll yourself in the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policies.
Lee Kuan Yew forecasted an incompetent PAP government.
"You know, the cure for all this talk is really a good dose of incompetent government. You get that alternative and you'll never put Singapore together again:
Humpty Dumpty cannot be put together again... and your asset values will be in peril, (PAP LAWRENCE WONG SAY HDB FLAT IS WORTHLESS AFTER 99 YEARS)
your security will be at risk (SINGAPOREAN PMETs GET REPLACED BY CECA INDIANS. SINGAPOREAN SECURITY GUARDS AND TAXI DRIVERS GET ABUSED BY FOREIGNERS)
and our women will become maids... (SINGAPOREAN WOMEN BECOME SARONG PARTY GIRLS OR LITTLE BROWN FUCKING MACHINES TO FOREIGNERS).
Hi 1229opm
Please Keep on praying!
Hahaha.... hope that your prayers will be answered!
But many many many many many predicted pap 75-80% and 100% parliamentary seats!
Anyway, keep praying and hoping.
All the best!
Anonymous 12.29pm
Your prayers will fai!!
Pap is very very strong and they are everywhere!
Pap is now too BIG to fail!
A ponzi scheme is still a ponzi scheme no matter what name it takes and how the suckers are being lured, forced or con into the scheme. Call it whatever you want, it is still a ponzi scheme.
For those who do not even bother to know what a ponzi scheme looks like, congratulations! You have nothing to worry about. Cheer up and enjoy being screwed.
@ anon 2.12pm
// Pap is now too BIG to fail! //
Once Lee Hsien Loong dies.
PAP will break up.
@All,
///In the second case, the seniors that cannot touch their CPF money, what $247k,///
Sounds like fake news or bullshitting by the "old man".
Even if someone turns 55 this year, the amount locked up in CPF is only $233K ($176K for full retirement sum + $57K for basic healthcare sum).
And if he pledges his property, then the amount locked up inside CPF is only $145K ($88K for basic retirement sum + $57K for basic healthcare sum).
If that guy is really an old man e.g. 70 yrs old today, then the amount to be locked up in his CPF will be much lower --- $119K ($84.5K for Minimum Sum + $30K-$35K for Medisave Minimum Sum).
If he pledged his property, then only $77K need to be locked up ($42K for Half Minimum Sum + $30K-$35K for Medisave Minimum Sum).
That old man should be able to withdraw $247K - $77K = $170K.
If even a layman like me can spot the BS, if CPF were to reveal that old man's actual CPF transactions & balances, it will really make him malu.
Just like the other guy who complained he can only withdraw $15 from CPF.
WSG
Anon 12.29
The more you pray, the longer they will live.
Keep praying for God's sake!
@All,
CPF top 10 retirement plans in the world .... #1 in Asia.
Frankly for the losers here, even if they are born in other countries like Netherlands, Denmark or OZ (the top 3 best retirement plans in the world) .... they will still KPKB & blaming all others. LOL!!!
There is no real secret about the way in which most nations and individuals grow rich. They must save a good part of their income, wisely and profitably invested. The more you save and the more wisely you invest, the faster you get rich. --- Goh Keng Swee
WSG
Hahaha Hahahahahaha!
A very good one!
Cheers.
Hi WSG
Jokes aside. You are really very knowledgeable. I think the government should invite you to give talks regularly to seniors.
How about it?
How did the Government miss out having the WSG inside GIC or Temasek as investment adviser and strategist? He could be making tens of millions instead of advising small potatoes about investments on this blog.
But then, he will surely let all the cats out of the bag by letting us know how much he made for GIC or Temasek.
Cancel the CECA treaty with India.
- say NO to CECA Indians in Singapire
Vote Opposition.
Ban all CECA Indians from the workplace.
Have you all heard of good people die young? E.g.. Jesus died at 32 or 33.
Bad people live very long - at least 90 years old. E.g. no need to say - who you all know already.
Moral of the story:
Don't be good people. Be like Matilah, WSG?
DON'T GAMBLE!
Hahaha......
Love yourself.....
Be kind to others.....
While the Singapore Government takes very good care of the old people (by not reserving jobs for old people like in the UK, US and Europe), Hongkong Government is taking very good care of their violent dissidents and protesters.
"Hong Kong has fallen into recession, hit by five months of anti-government actions that erupted in flames at the weekend, and is unlikely to achieve any growth this year," the city's Financial Secretary said.
Today, HK dissidents and protesters, wearing black attires and black masks, set fire to shops and hurled petrol bombs at police causing widespread destructions and damages to buildings and injuries to police personnel. As expected, the compassionate police responded only with tear gas, water cannon and rubber bullets, instead of real cannons and real bullets. No arrests have been made today.
In order to compete with HK, Singapore government should learn from HK government in how to take good care of anti-government dissidents, protesters, demonstrators and rioters.
Don't gamble.
Vote Opposition for a more balanced parliament
@ Mo duc ting
Wah, 5 months of civil unrest... only NOW going into recession ah?
Not so bad lah. Fucking Han Seng still strong. Hasn't fallen significantly yet.
Go Hong Kong protestors! US Vice President Pence says he's with you 100% (dun worry, you're not Kurdish...so Tua Kee Uncle Sam won't play your backside) πππ»π€£
There are so many protests ongoing all over the world and so many deaths reported, yet the news on MSM is about Hong Kong, Hong Kong and more Hong Kong. As Rick Sanchez said, since 5G hit the headlines, every day the MSM is fixated on Huawei, Huawei, and more Huawei.
The 39 truck deaths in UK was originally reported straightaway, without confirmation, that the victims were all Chinese, and the MSM was about to explode in degradation of China and how Chinese were now fleeing China to run away from communist rule. Then, as further investigations revealed that most, if not all, victims may be Vietnamese, the MSM lost interest in the developments, like the protests in Europe and South America. Only Hong Kong holds the MSM's interest.
Hong Kong is burning and a war zone. Those that want to destroy Hong Kong have all left the country, leaving the mob to carry out further carnage on the economy and the infrastructure and terrorise those citizens that disagree with their actions. They are not just protestors. They are hardcore rioters and terrorist!
The West is waiting and baiting China to step in, but China obviously knows this and refused to take the bait. Like Venezuela, the CIA is going to fail in Hong Kong as well.
Fake news is not as horrible.
As brain washing.Brain washing breeds extremisms.
Don't gamble with your job.
Vote Opposition.
Cancel the CECA treaty with India.
Say NO to PAP's CECA Indians.
Don't gamble with your future. Vote for CECA Indians to come to Singapore to create jobs for Indians and turn Singapore into an Indian Dominated CUNTry. Vote for PAP. Three cheers for PAP that takes very good care of Indians!
Even the President, Chief Justice, Ministers for Foreign Affairs, Home Affairs, Law, etc - many key positions - are given to Indians disproportionately in terms of racial ratio. Thank you PAP!
Yes, PAP is so clever. In fact, too clever. Take care of old people so well that their CPF savings cannot withdraw at 55 any more. Must wait until 60, then 65, then 70 - keep shifting the maturing date. And keep increasing the minimum sum ceiling. Then come out with compulsory insurance premiums to be siphoned out of the CPF savings every year in advance, until the savings dry up. So clever. Too clever.
The people are so stupid. In fact, too stupid. Especially the Cheenas and the Chees.
Cheenas don't want to vote for Chee but voted for Ah Neh and Ahmad. So stupid. Too stupid. Stupidity cannot cure.
Well said.
Fireworks in Jurong West.
In celebration of the Indians Majority.
They can intimidate and scold screwty guards at will and said we paid 1.5M for your Condom here. 1.5M fully paid or still in installments? ?
Anytime can get Firesaled and be bankrupt and start selling condoms.
Singapura now becomes Indrapura.
Sinkies had already lost their country.
All for themselves and you die your business.
See how long they survived when they themsleves also kena screwed when being overran.
Sinkieland KAPUT liao
Fake News: Trump murdered ISIS leader. Seal Team came back with body parts but no skull. Isn't this another stance same as body of Bin Laden thrown into sea?
Banyan tree,
if infested by too many parasite and pest, shall die very fast.
Manifestation and omen symptomatic of calamity happened by the loads and are happenning like running away, very much like a dying Banyan tree.
There is no need to curse or for the matter, need to do anything except take care of oneself.
The Decay and Rot have taken place for many years cover under the Thick Foliage Canopy hidden away from sight.
Because the Damages are concealed, everyone only sees the Glorious Foliage. This false sight is the Impending Death Knell.
Bukit Batok by-elections, May 2016.
- 60% Singaporeans voted for Murali the PAP Indian
Singapore, October 2019
- CECA Indian bully Chinese Singaporean security guard
You voted for this.
Say NO to CECA Indians.
Say NO to PAP
Do you think any Instant Singaporean who benefited economically in this generation without respect abused the Uncles who served their NS defending this piece of rock?.
Do you think you should invite cheapskate friends who could not afford $10 parking fee for a overnight condom party?
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