Hsien Loong startled the audience of his National Day
speech asking the people to ‘kee chiu’ if they think electricity tariff is
lower than 10 years ago. Many got it wrong, believing that electricity today is
higher instead of lower. He then showed two graphs, one on electricity tariff
and another on oil price to show the complementarity of the movements of the
two items. When oil price is up, tariff is up. The audience was astonished that
electricity price today was lower than 10 years ago. Hsien Loong supplement his
discovery with this statement:
‘”Describing the issue of electricity tariffs as “more
complicated”, he noted that the current rate of 23.65 cents/kwh is more
affordable than it was in the third quarter of 2008 at 25.07 cents/kwh.
’––Singapore’s electricity tariffs are dependent on
the fluctuations in oil prices as the nation uses natural gas – all imported –
to generate almost all of its electricity, he explained.’ Yahoo News
Many in the audience or watching the TV must be amazed
for seeing that electricity tariff has actually gone down and their perception
was wrong, that electricity price is high. Here are the two charts.
For flashing the two charts in a speech and giving the
audience very little time to ponder and understand what they were shown is a
clever way of getting one’s point across. Now we have a bit more time reading
the charts and see what they meant and whether they really made sense. Yes, the
tariff is lower today, 23.65 cents against 25.07 cents. What about the relative
oil prices for the respective time? I could not figure out the scale of the above oil price chart. To me the numbers were funny. Below is a 10 year oil price chart by Macrotrends.net. Oil price peaked in 2008 to US$140 per barrel and hit a low of US$30 in 2009 and below US$30 in 2015.
Oil price in 2008 was $140 per barrel against $60 per
barrel today. If electricity tariff is to fluctuate in sync with oil price,
when the oil price is halved, should not the electricity tariff be halved as
well or somewhere near there? The 23.65/25.07 numbers showed that electricity
tariff has fallen by 1.42 cents or 5.66%! Should it not be bigger for the
80/140 or 57% difference in price of oil? The latter is the percentage of change when oil price fell from $140 to $60.
Yes they both swing in the same direction but the
quantum is vastly different. Does it make sense that one changed by 57% and one
by 1.42%?
What is the problem with the numbers? What is the problem with the charts? Should the
people be happy that electricity prices have fallen by 1.42%? Or should it go
down by a bigger percentage? Why is the fall so miniscule?
The above chart shows the prices of oil over the last
10 years. The chart Hsien Loong presented showed the prices of electricity of
the same period but the fluctuation is not more than 5 cents each way.
41 comments:
The Goondu thinks that Sinkies are goondus like him. He showed the oil price at near alltime record high to relate to the electricity price which they quickly took advantage in 2008 to fixed at very high price then (which was an abnormality for a very short period). N then compared use today level to compared. Of course it will be lowered. It should have been a lot lower but not. Pappies under him proved again to exploit the people with "selected truths" which in facts are not the Truth. This is what we call dishonesty of the heart. Deliberate with carefully selected statistics. 2008/9 have both market extremes of highs n lows. You can pick and chose to compare to now to produce whatever results you Want!!!
All statistical comparison to 2008 n 2009 should be viewed with great sceptism. Early 2008 mkt at alltime highs. Late 2008 early 2009 mkt at Great Financial Crisis lows.
Mathematician caught red-handed
@ RB
1. The price of diesel fuel oil is the price to consider, not the crude oil price. Crude oil prices go up and down, and that is reflected in the final refined products, but they don't track exactly because of non-oil input costs at production.
2. Good luck in hoping electricity MONOPOLIES will cut prices, when the cost of their energy source falls. 😜
3. 23-25¢ per kWh is (IMO) expensive (exactly the same as Aussie price, BTW). Get on Google and see what other cuntries are paying. Why the super smart and bloody expensive Elite Govt of Singapore has not addressed this and brought the cost of energy DOWN (because it helps 'prosperity') is a mystery to me.
Malaysia has lower tariffs! In fact, the consumer is subject to a sliding scale---the less you consume, the lower the tariff, thus "incentivising" economising (don't waste electricity!) by the end user.
Michael Faraday was asked by future British PM Gladstone about the "practical uses of electricity". Faraday's answer: "One day, sir, you may TAX it."
And so...here we are. Thank you Michael for your work on electricity. Fuck you for giving the govt bad ideas. 🤣
PAP elites have taken blatant lying to Singaporeans to a new extreme . . .
Factors Affecting Diesel Prices (USA)
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.php?page=diesel_factors_affecting_prices
The prices look like they track exactly, but actually there's slight discrepancy . An increase in the price of crude results in a proportionately larger change in the price of diesel.
Singapore has a diesel tax for vehicles. I don't know if there's a tax for diesel for electricity. But next year, Singapore is introducing a Carbon Tax. I don't have any details.
Many of us are trained in statistics so we know how to use data points and charts. That dude is first class in math so what do u think?
OK, it seems I'm misinformed here. 95% of electricity in Singapore is produced by PNG (Piped Natural Gas) and LNG (Liquified Natural Gas). This is very cool and very good. They have some diesel, coal and other generators to make up the difference, and to ensure energy security.
Natural gas prices, although trending upwards since a collapse around 2015, are still historically LOW. We definitely shouldn't be paying 23-25¢ per kWh. The consumer price is too high.
"Someone" is making more money than they should. Hmm..who could that be?🤓
But WHY is LHL taking about the oil price, when it is the price of Natural Gas which most reflects the price of energy to the consumer? I naturally assumed that fuel oil was being burned to produce electricity. I was completely mislead, until I checked.
Macrotrends: Natural Gas Price Chart https://www.macrotrends.net/2478/natural-gas-prices-historical-chart
Dishonorable
to
a higher level.
Firstly,
dishonorable
to the Familee.
And now, proven
dishonorable to
the People.
Totally dishonorable
and
despicable.
A shame of the Nation.
Companies (or govt?) are profit-motivated businesses; and it would not be a surprise if they delayed downward adjustments for as long as possible. If prices moved the other way (up), the adjustment tend to be faster.
That helps to explain why in 2008 when oil price at US$140/bbl, tariff at 25.07 cents/kwh; while in 2018 with oil price massively 57% lower at $60/bbl, tariff have fallen very little at 23.65 cents/kwh.
Understanding of issues can help appease the citizenry anger. Hope Sinkies can appreciate the PAP's love for Sinkies.
WOW! Today's paper: LHL says HDB is yours, not an "extended rental".
"It is so, because I say that it is so" This is the language kings used to use back in the Dark Ages.
The purpose of the whole speech was to convince the citizens that the PAP government is very caring. Every decision made at the top is not to make money but to take care of the people (and their bank accounts).
If your HDB flat is truly your property, why is it that many things u want to do to your flat u must seek HDB's approval ?
@ 1017
The words your money & your property have "special meanings" in the Singapore context. "HDB is your property". "CPF is your money".
So many people question: "So how come I can't do this and that with my property or my money?"
Apply "Singapore Meaning Transformer" (a magical device to change reality)
OK, OK, now due to the proprietary scientific process known as "magic" HDB and CPF belong entirely to you...but you can't have it all or use it fully, and the lease will expire.
@ fans of "caring govt"
Seriously if you want to be "cared for", go to a pet shop and buy a kitten or puppy. They will be loyal to you and love you until they die. And they are a lot CHEAPER than expecting an expensive govt to "care" about you. [the cold fact of living in the real world is that Nobody Gives A FUCK about you! ]
The people in govt are all give JOBS to do. The #1 thing to keep the cuntry together, and humming along smoothly is that the motherfuckers EMPLOYED by The People, do their bloody jobs well.
I have dealt with many govts over the years. I have to say dealing with the Singapore government is the experience with the least hassle and usually the quickest resolution, compared to many other cuntries---even the developed ones.
Singapore government---not perfect, but NOT BAD either!
Progress or regress.. in the 60s with 40% literacy rate the caring government interfere less with the lives of Singaporeans than the present government overlooking a population with 95% literacy rate. Have we grown stupid by becoming educated? Now we have the PM saying hdb leasehold is better than private leasehold..either he is daft or he thinks the citizens are daft.. I've never heard of anyone upgrading from a private leasehold to an hdb leasehold .. but I hear plenty that hdb households want to upgrade to private leasehold if they can afford it.. PM can cherry pick his arguments all day long but not to point out the glaring differences between private n public housing shows his lack of understanding of the hdb's residents concerns
Political Parody-Joke
---------------------
My name is Lee Con Yew.
What part of my name you do not understand?
You tell me lah.
@ jig
See "Madison's Paradox". The richer and more developed a cuntry and its people become, the more Madison's Paradox applies.
My rejoinder/ derived hypothesis from Madison's Paradox is that, you don't have to worry too much. Here's why:
1. As long as the cuntry and the people are rich, things will be more or less stable. Political economy is derived (down stream) from CULTURE.
2. Our culture is kiasu materialism and risk adverseness. A#1 priority is financial and economic SECURITY. Because we , believe that without them, you have no future, and your present is going to be very short-lived.
3. To back up that belief, we're prepared to spend BIG BUCKS on education, in order to score a GOOD JOB with GOOD PAY, which we belive will seucre our financial and economic security. I see nothing wrong with these values.
*You can ridicule Singaporeans for being kiasu kiasi, but if many of them are prospering (and many of them ARE in FACT), then fuck you, Kiasu Kiasi might be our national "winning stratergy", so don't be too quick to knock them. I'm just sayin'...😎
4.Since the political-economy is downstream from CULTURE, we are going to get a typically Singaporean government (same gene pool, same cultural values, similar backgrounds, similar education, communities, mutual friends...same fucking kampung lah )❢
We will NOT get a typically American, British, Scandinavian, Chinese, Indian, Cambodian, Russian, Egyptian, Taliban...etc.etc government. ℕ𝕠∘𝔽𝕦𝕔𝕜𝕚𝕟𝕘∘𝕎𝕒𝕪. Typically Singaporean, magnified in the best and the worst ways, wielding ABSOLUTE POWER is what you fucking get, and DESERVE.😂🤣
Madison's Paradox. Look it up.
"misrepresent" - verb
presenting information in a way that does not accord with the truth; make false by mutilation or addition, as of a message or story; give an inaccurate view by representing falsely or misleadingly
Synonyms: distort, disguise, pervert, belie, twist, misinterpret, falsify, garble, misstate, belie, color, distort, falsify, load, misstate, pervert, twist, warp, wrench, wrest
What can you expect from the mouth, brain and heart of a Dishonourable Son?
Psychological Warfare is basically based on Deception. To deceive, mislead and make complacent the target audience so as to make them believe in something that is not true or real, or will not happen at all.
Have you all forgotten about Total Defence? One component of Total Defence is Psychological Defence.
Psychological Defence is based on Deception. Its purpose is to brain-wash your mind into thinking and believing that EVERYTHING in Singapore is good for YEW! And you must support or go along with whatever shits poured onto your head. And that resistance is futile. Therefore, you must surrender your individuality and support the overall whole. So that the top dogs can keep eating good food and throw some crumps to you at regular intervals, whenever they feel like it.
Dumb-ass Sinkies deserve to be Conned by Yew know who.
The incompetence & misrepresentation are so horrendous...just on electricity tariffs.
1. Using record high crude oil timing in 2008 with a corresponding highest electricity rate in 2008 to compare to current rate in 2018.
2. Ignored that crude oil has crashed by more than 50% then to now yet corresponding electricity rate has hardly adjusted downward.
3. Actually Spore used natural gas rather than crude oil for electricity.
4. Natural gas prices had crashed n traded at near historic lows in recent years. Yet Spore consumers are paying for their incompetence in locking in at nat gas import at way above record high prices in contracts n greed to make money.
Welcome to the Fat, very Incompetent, Very expensive Garhmen of Sinkies whose only key skills are using propaganda n the suka suka laws. Majority voted for this shit.
Shale gas extraction revolution technology had cause natural gas prices to crash for many years. Plentiful supply.
Nat gas 2008 high near $13, now about $3. Recent yr low $2.
@ voting taxpayers,
I don't have any bone to pick, and I don't vote, so I don't really care who governs Singapore, as long as I can enjoy a shiok life and make a few filthy bucks. I am a typical apathetic Singaporean as or maybe more pragmatic than the government I didn't vote for, but am happy to contribute some taxes. (little bit can lah!)
So, I won't be the one asking:
"Excuse me Mr Prime Minister, can you explain to us why you are talking oil prices when Singapore's electricity is primarily generated by Natural Gas. Natural Gas has been low since 2015. YThere is no supply shortage. Far from it. So why are you still talking oil price? Kindly EXPLAIN."
I won't be asking it. Someone else...ought to.
Sinkies were never conned.
They sucked up and bought into whatever
the Pappies say and sell.
Thats life in this world for many. No money to buy new clothing for kids because need to pay gov so many different types of tax, duties and levy.
The trade war between uas and china will be used as another excuse to further increase prices. Let us just wait and see. Its all orchestrated by our beloved bankers. One played the brass and one played the woodwinds.
"Excuse me Mr Prime Minister, can you explain to us why you are talking oil prices when Singapore's electricity is primarily generated by Natural Gas. Natural Gas has been low since 2015. YThere is no supply shortage. Far from it. So why are you still talking oil price? Kindly EXPLAIN."
Don't need to ask such a question lah. We already know the answer.
He has become somewhat incoherent and illogical for the last few years already. This is not the first such instance. He has became incoherent especially after the demise of his domineering father. He even publicly told us that he can hear his voice frequently.
So, if you were to ask a psychiatrist, he would tell you that something must be wrong with his mental stability and capabilities.
Even, we lay people can sense that something is wrong with his thinking power. And not just himself. Those around him also have something wrong, especially those filed inside the cabinet and expired shelves. And especially his speech writers - top first class honours scholars (disgraceful).
All those sycophants failed to alert him; failed in their responsibility to check and correct him before he makes a fool of himself.
So, it is not just one man's fault. It is team-work or the lack thereof. It is the whole system. Rotting system. It worked well before. It had worked because the Old Man was around. Now that the Old Man is dead and not able to climb up from the coffin because he had been burnt into powdery ashes, the whole system built by him simply cannot work so well any more. Why? Because the captain of the ship that replaced him just cannot meet the high standard set by him.
Moreover, there could be some health problems that have affected his brain cells. That's why he has become more and more incoherent in recent years?
So, I think it is time he steps aside and let a healthy person take over the reins. What do you say?
@ 133
Exactly. Cannot use the claim of universal victimisation :
The PAP conned The Singaporean people.
They are also Singaporean people. You might get away with the claim if it was one con, once upon a time in election long long ago, but to keep as this ELITE MINORITY holding the reins of absolute power for 50 years...nah, the "con" argument doesn't fly lah.
@ 406
What do you say?
I say that unless you're a trained mental health professional you probably don't have any business doing a psych ANALysis on anyone, especially on the office bearer of the nation's top job. 😂
At the moment, he is in-charge. And unless he's going to collapse and fall off his perch FOR REAL next time, he's still the boss .
Everyone has an opinion. No one does anything. The shit... as expected... stays the same, and time moves on. (Same old shit, Different day... 😝)
Heard of the story of the perched turtle, a turtle perched on top of a pole?
According to The Washington Post, Ben Davis, who in June signed a two-year contract with English Premier League club Fulham F.C., holds Thai, British and Singaporean citizenship.
Is it true ? Thot dual citizenship not even allowed!??
https://www.washingtonpost.com ... "The author of ‘Crazy Rich Asians’ is wanted in Singapore — for dodging conscription "
Thot dual citizenship not even allowed!??
August 25, 2018 6:24 pm
--------------
Singaporean slaves are not allowed dual citizenship.
- because we are stupid slaves who don't even know how to vote wisely
Thailand and Britain allow dual citizenship because their citizens are not slaves
- Ben Davis is a free person (citizen of Thailand and Britain)
Society Is Made of Narrative (Founding Grandfather's Story).
Realizing This Is Awakening From The Matrix
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-24/society-made-narrative-realizing-awakening-matrix
-----------------------
Do you think it is time for the Singaporean slaves to stop listening to the "Founding Grandfather's story" ????
Sinkies are allowed multiple citizenship before 21. At 21 they have to decide whether to remain Sinkie & renounce other citizenships. But males still need to do NS even if want to renounce. Unless you run road or execute the only way to legally avoid NS.
/// Sinkies are allowed multiple citizenship before 21. ///
August 25, 2018 11:37 pm
Did God say Sinkies must renounce other citizenships?
Did God also tell you that Singaporeans MUST do NS?
Why not vote Opposition and see if all these things continue to be true ??
" Singapore’s electricity tariffs are dependent on the fluctuations in oil prices as the nation uses natural gas – all imported – to generate almost all of its electricity." ~ Lee Hsien Loong.
If the nation uses natural gas to generate almost all of its electricity, why the need to talk about fluctuations in oil prices? He should be talking about fluctuations in natural gas prices. This is something I get confused.
He owes all of us another explanation. Rightly, the electricity price should be linked to the price of natural gas, and has nothing or very little to do with oil prices. Unless, he comes out with a clear explanation as to why he pecked the price of electricity to the price of oil, we can only conclude that either he has been confused or he has been trying to confuse all of us!
6.03pm anon, why are you so dictatorial and would not allow others the freedom of expression to kpkb. Are you better than the ruling party? You need to be sodomized to wake up man!
Right Mr Frog,
At one time they want to buy Gas from Matland when the MadHater is in charge. All the way to Trengganeu.
Not successful as the MadHater out of spite prefer not to earn the long term billions RMs contract.
He wants to negotiate the Water Price.
So Sinkieland now brought from Indonesia, Natuna.
So now some more Rupiah. Rp500 to Sin0.90 cts.
All the while Gas. Gas lah. PAP gassed you by charging Oil price.
How many Billions they made??
Up to your imagination.
The Leechers are a bunch of betrayers and double-crossers to their own country. Using deceptive arguments and lies to trick their own people and get away with it just because they have the power to do so. The people must get back the power from these betrayers and double-crossers. Otherwise, life will become worse and worst. If you have to tighten your belts, to make sacrifices for these fat cats and slugs, then it is time to act decisively. No more time to waste.
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