A diplomatic faux pas between Singapore on one side and Vietnam and Cambodia on the other side seems to be brewing with both sides saying different things on the Vietnamese presence in Cambodia. Hsien Loong said it was an invasion of Cambodia by Vietnam. The Vietnamese said they were there to liberate the Cambodians from the Khmer Rouges. The Cambodians chipped in to say they appreciated the Vietnamese presence and to prevent the massacre of the Cambodians by the Khmer Rouges. The Vietnamese and Cambodians are asking Hsien Loong to apologise for saying something they don't see as their truth.
Some quarters in the opposition parties have raised this issue and calling for Hsien Loong to apologise for making a false statement or a fake news or alternative truth. Who is telling the truth and who is spreading false or fake news? The Vietnamese and cambodians are sticking to their version of the truth. Hsien Loong is sticking to his Singaporean truth.
Can both sides be telling the truth or one side is telling truth and one side is telling fake news? How would this stand under our POFMA? I am very sure if this case appears in our courts it would definitely be in Hsien Loong's favour and the other side be judged as making false news and vice versa. What would Shanmugam said, Hsien Loong spreading fake news or the Cambodians and Vietnamese spreading fake news?
Is fake news so easy to judge? And in this case if one party is wrong for spreading fake news, it would mean that govt or national leaders can be spreading fake news. Actually the answer is so obvious. It all depends on who is saying it and in which country and what they would want to believe. Hmmm, does it mean that the truth is subjective or fake news is subjective? Remember that every country is writing their own history, and Singapore's history is British Empire history?
What do you think? While so many that are here, with Matilah the cheer leader, are in agreement with what was said in Parliament, that CPF is not our money, many, including me, would say CPF is our money. Am I spreading fake news, or what transpired or uttered in Parliament was fake news?
Now that POFMA is law, the party that is making false or fake news can be charged. Can those who shared my view that CPF is our money be charged for spreading fake news? The answer is no, parliamentary privilege, can say anything in parliament and cannot be charged, unless...
15 comments:
I was quite involved in the Vietnam War both as a student and as an analyst. My academic exercise was on the Indochina Federation.
The Vietnamese fought the Khmer Rouge was true. But after entering Cambodia, they refused to go back to Vietnam. They stayed on in Cambodia and Laos and if not removed, they would inherit the colonial concept of Indochina as an entity ruled by Vietnam instead of the French.
The thinking of the Vietnamese then was the same as India, whatever conquered or acquired by the colonial masters became theirs. That led to the present claims by India of large swathes of Chinese territories arbitrarily written away from China as Indian territories by the British Empire.
The Khmer Rouges were barbaric and had no place in Cambodia. But the threat of a powerful Indochina ruled by Vietnam on the Thai border was troubling for Asean states. The Vietnamese had to go, return to Vietnam.
China came in to help after the appeal, begging by Asean, to stop the Vietnamese. The defeated Americans also supported China's intervention as they had no stomach to fight another war in Asia. China was Asean's hope as only China was able to contain Vietnam/USSR from taking over Thailand and Malaysia.
China's role in forcing the Vietnamese to retreat back to Vietnam after teaching the Vietnamese a lesson in the Sino Viet Border War was never appreciated. Without China's intervention, Thailand could fall to Vietnam anytime. The Thai army was no match to a seasoned Viet army, victorious after defeating the Americans and chasing the Americans out of Indochina.
No one was left to stop the Viet/USSR advance into Asean states.
Say thank you to China, you ungratefuls.
Is it true that Vietnam "volunteer troops" entered Cambodia to help eject Khmer Rouge? This is what Hun Sen said when scolding Hsienloong. I suspect it is not true. Why would people volunteer their lives to solve other country problem? (All troops movements are political calculations fromt very top, and soldiers are just the unlucky dudes arrowed to do dirty job).
I understand HunSen has a background of cooperation with Vietnam, therefore when Hsienloong statement put Vietnam in a tight spot, he took offence, and also used the idea that Sg supported KhmerRouge as a boogeyman. Am I right about this?
Actually what LHL said r correct so right to the core of the Cambodians /Vietnam Indochins war period of the late 70s. The Truth hurts & Cambodia PM & Vietnam Gen jus couldn't stomach the truth.
Yes, Sinkieland has a lot to thank the then Thai Gen of that time to help block the Viet invasion to Thai & rest of SE Asia if not these countries will be under Communist Vietnam or USSR.
Still refuses to accept the role of China in stopping the Viets and forcing them to withdraw from Thailand?
If China were to fold their arms, Thailand would just let the Viets walked in without a fight like they did throughout their history. That was how Thailand avoided being ruled fully by the colonialists in the past.
Thank the Thai generals for what?
Ask a simple question, why several Viet army corps already occupied the whole of Cambodia and the Khmer Rouges were defeated, who was there, or what was the reason for them to unilaterally withdraw from Cambodia after the Sino Viet Border War?
@ RB
You are confusing "news" with "history" lah.
//..Thank the Thai generals for what?..//
Probably if u could recalled in the old man memoirs :
The Thai could jus let in the Viets trojan horses in & the rest will be history.
Matland could also jus let in their goal post & it will be left only the tiny red dot to fight alone, probably Sinkieland Sinkies might all run road or jus surrender to the Viets Communist rule, tis wat the old man worries in his memoir.
Probably after China CCP taught the Vietnamese a lesson that they couldn't forget. The war resulted in many people of both nations lost their lives. It can lead to many natural calamities cos by the killing sins. Probably no nations in the right frame of mind wud wan any war lest the retribution wud be great such as earthquakes, tornadoes & tsunamis r all warning from the higher up not to kill one another as humans. Big nations wud learn from it in times to come.
Nixon's Visit To China Was Prelude To End The US-Vietnam War.
During his inauguration sppech in 1969, President Richard Nixon had promised to bring the US-Vietnam War to an "honourable" end.
Nixon's 1972 visit to the People's Republic of China was an important strategic move that marked the culmination of the Nixon administration's resumption of harmonious relations between the US and PRC after years of hostilities.
The 7-day official visit to three Chinese cities was the first time a US president had visited the PRC; Nixon's arrival in Beijing ended 25 years of no communication or diplomatic ties between the two countries and was the key step in normalizing relations between the US and China.
Nixon visited China to gain more leverage over relations with the Soviet Union, that was supporting the North Vietnam government and military.
When the communists took over mainland China in 1949 and the nationalists fled to the island of Taiwan, the United States allied with, and recognized, the Republic of China as the sole government of China.
Before his election as president in 1968, former Vice President Richard Nixon hinted at establishing a new relationship with the PRC. Early in his first term, Nixon, through his National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger, sent subtle overtures hinting at warmer relations to the PRC government. After a series of these overtures by both countries, Kissinger flew on secret diplomatic missions to Beijing in 1971, where he met with Premier Zhou Enlai.
On July 15, 1971, the President shocked the world by announcing on live television that he would visit the PRC the following year.
The week-long visit, from February 21 to 28, 1972, allowed the American public to view images of China for the first time in over two decades. Throughout the week the President and his senior advisers engaged in substantive discussions with the PRC leadership, including a meeting with Chairman Mao Zedong, while First Lady Pat Nixon toured schools, factories and hospitals in the cities of Beijing, Hangzhou and Shanghai with the large American press corps in tow.
Nixon dubbed his visit "the week that changed the world", a descriptor that continues to echo in the political lexicon.
Repercussions of the Nixon visit continue to this day; while near-immediate results included a significant shift in the Cold War balance—driving a wedge between the Soviet Union and China, resulting in significant Soviet concessions to the US — the trip spawned China's opening to the world and economic parity with capitalist countries.
The relationship between China and the US is now one of the most important bilateral relationships in the world, and every successive US president, with the exception of Jimmy Carter, has visited China.
The trip is consistently ranked by historians, scholars, and journalists as one of the most important — if not the most important — visits by a sitting US president anywhere.
In addition, a "Nixon to China" moment has since become a metaphor for an unexpected, uncharacteristic or overly impactful action by any politician.
Thereafter, China helped the US to stop the Dominos Theory from moving forward by preventing Vietnam from swallowing up Cambodia and Laos; and checking Vietnam's advance into Thailand. It is not the ability of the Thai military not the cleverness of the then Thai Prime Minister General Prem, whom Lee Hsien Loong had been stupidly grateful to. Singaporeans as a whole, irrespective of creed and color, should be thankful to China for stopping the Vietnamese aggressive ambition to take over South East Asia!
Actually all in Sinkieland need to be grateful to the founder fathers LKY, GKS, Raja, TCC.. For without their foresight Sinkies will be all boom into pieces jus like X men Apocalypse, LKY & hus team was also pivotal in convincing the end of Indochina war as he could hv done some diplomatic talks with the US and China as well stating a small island grand concern of being swallow by by the Dark Phoenix, luckily the Dragon Warrier Kungfu Pandas came to knock out the Dark forces & the rest is all history. It proved the Gift of Gap of all times ~ the Great LKY & his team lives on & passes to his son (but fail to live up to his Papa gift of gap, poor thing)
Probably LKY could hv intervene secretly in the Indochina War in the late 70s. Though there isn't any concrete record, but surely LKY met Deng Xiao Ping in 1978, they could hv secretly discuss this matter not just economic but diplomatic issues as well. After that there r many visits from China Chinese officials visits to Spore ~ read tis https://thediplomat.com/2015/03/lee-kuan-yew-the-father-of-modern-china/ .. Lky could have also met US President & his diplomats to discuss on the Spore concern over the Indochina war at that time, so LKY was also playing a pivotal role in maintaining peace in the ASEAN community.
History Of Modern Cambodia - Part 1: The Khmer Rouge
To understand why PM Lee Hsien Loong made that statement that Vietnam invaded Cambodia, we need to go back three chapters in the History of Modern Cambodia, which I will tell you in three parts.
This Part I deals with the Khmer Rouge: how it was formed, its roles and main actions, and how it was dissolved.
The Khmer Rouge army was slowly built up in the jungles of Eastern Cambodia during the late 1960s, supported by the North Vietnamese army, the Viet Cong and the Pathet Lao.
Despite a massive American bombing campaign against them, the Khmer Rouge forces won the Cambodian Civil War when in 1975 they captured the Cambodian capital and overthrew the government of the Khmer Republic.
Following their victory, the Khmer Rouge forces led by Pol Pot, Nuon Chea, Ieng Sary, Son Sen and Khieu Samphan renamed the country as the Democratic Kampuchea and immediately set about forcibly evacuating the country's major cities.
Initially, the Pol Pot regime murdered hundreds of thousands of their perceived political opponents. Then it led to ethnic cleansing genocide.
Ultimately, the Cambodian genocide led to the deaths of 1.5 to 3 million people, around 25% of Cambodia's population.
The Khmer Rouge regime was highly autocratic, xenophobic, paranoid, and repressive. The genocide was in part the result of the regime's social engineering policies. Its attempts at agricultural reform through collectivisation led to widespread famine while its insistence on absolute self-sufficiency, even in the supply of medicine, led to the death of many thousands from treatable diseases such as malaria.
The Khmer Rouge's racist emphasis on national purity led to ethnic cleansing which included several genocides of Cambodian minorities. Arbitrary executions and torture were carried out by its cadres against perceived subversive elements, or during genocidal purges[7] of its own ranks between 1975 and 1978.
The regime was removed from power in 1979 when Vietnamese forces entered Cambodia and quickly destroyed most of the Khmer Rouge's forces. The Khmer Rouge then fled to Thailand whose government saw them as a buffer force against the Communist Vietnamese. The US and China and their allies, notably the Thatcher government, backed Pol Pot in exile in Thailand, providing the Khmers with intelligence, food, weapons and military training. The Khmer Rouge continued to fight the Vietnamese and the new People's Republic of Kampuchea government during the Cambodian–Vietnamese War which ended in 1989.
The Cambodian governments-in-exile (including the Khmer Rouge) held onto Cambodia's United Nations seat (with considerable international support) until 1993, when the monarchy was restored and the name of the Cambodian state was changed from Democratic Cambodia to Kingdom of Cambodia. A year later, thousands of Khmer Rouge guerrillas surrendered themselves in a government amnesty.
In early 1990, a new political party called the Democratic National Union Movement was formed by Ieng Sary, who was granted amnesty for his role as the deputy leader of the Khmer Rouge. The organisation was largely dissolved by the mid-1990s and finally surrendered completely in 1999.
In 2014, two Khmer Rouge leaders, Nuon Chea and Khieu Samphan, were jailed for life by a United Nations-backed court, which found them guilty of crimes against humanity for their roles in the Khmer Rouge's genocidal campaign.
The Khmer Rouge dissolved in December 1999.
Southern Glory, could you comment on this,
Quote from South China Morning Post,
"Hun Sen said Lee’s comments were an “insult to the sacrifice of the Vietnamese military volunteers who helped to liberate Cambodia”.
Unquote.
"Military Volunteers"? Is true?
Sorry, I meant to ask "Frog outside Glass"
Hun Sen himself felt insulted very deeply but he dares not said so because he himself was from the Khmer Rouge. He was a traitor - similar to a double-agent. Therefore, he shifted his own feelings to the Vietnamese.
Common sense will tell you that there cannot be volunteers of a well-organised Army, with all the artillery guns, ammunition and generals, colonels, majors, captains, lieutenants, senior ncos and soldiers already formed as order-of-battle units and subunits as volunteers.
For real volunteers, they a few thousands of individuals, not organised units ready for war.
Moreover, who is so stupid to volunteer to die in another country fighting someone else's war?
That's exactly what I thought. I find his statement childish. On account of that I think it is unnecessary for Lee Hsien Loong to comment further. Those who have brains and common sense will decide whether our PM is correct or not. Hun Sen scored his own goal and that ridiculous statement that Vietnam military Volunteers entered Cambodia, this statement may be used to defend Singapore position, should the need arise. The score is 1-1, no win no lose. Move on. Majulah Sg
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