Hsien Loong has announced that GIC had cut its long term investment in UBS by 2.4% and taking a hit of $6-$7 billion according to some estimate. Some put this sum to be $8b! GIC is still holding on to 2.7% of its shares in UBS which means a paper loss of more than $7 billion giving a total staggering loss of about $14b!
When such numbers are rolled out, many could not imagine or feel the impact of such losses. They are just numbers. In fact many big fund managers playing with OPM are too immune and desensitized to losing such big money. It is other people’s money after all, no sweat, no responsibility, own pocket not hurt.
How much is $14 billion? The cost of paying our political office holders is reported to be about $53m a year. Let’s put these numbers into persperctive. $ 14b is $14,000,000,000, 10 zeros behind the 14. $53m is $53,000,000, with 6 zeros behind the 53. The sum of $14b literally can pay the political office holders for 300 years or till 2317!
This is how much we have lost, just on one bank alone. This is not a plate of char kway teow or even several peanuts. This is big money being lost. How much did WP’s town council lost? Or did they actually lose any money at all? Or how much the other town councils lost during the lemon bond crisis?
Take a deep breath and get a feel of the scale of this loss. We spent $32.b for 4 submarines, or one sub costs less than $1b. We could have 14 subs for free by not investing in UBS.
77 comments:
GIC use to buy high and sell and sell low and now it buy low and sell even lower. how that for a change! it had done all!! good job.
Nothing! Nothing! Nothing!
The actual and paper losses of about $14,000,000,000.00 estimated by you is nothing lah!
Yes! It is nothing! It is nothing!
Just look at the amount of money people burned as part of the offerings to the deads.
In billions trilions, $1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.00!
So GIC........加油! 加油! 加油!
/// We could have 14 subs for free by not investing in UBS. ///
Maybe we could also have 14 subs for free by not voting for PAP?
Shouldn't we get to the root of the problem?
How much did WP’s town council lost? Or did they actually lose any money at all?
RB
It is about whether a party can win elections and win big, and not whether how much is lost or if there are any losses at all.
To put it more simply, PAP can afford such big losses by GIC because PAP will still win the next election! And win big!
And because WP is not ready to be govt and may even lose Aljunied next GE, WP simply could not afford to have any losses at all! Or anything that is no good that PAP can pick on WP!
So whether it is political party or even individual, it's about whether they can afford the losses, and not about losses. It's that simple.
How come PAP MPs ask so many questions about Workers' Party Town Council accounts?
How come no PAP MP ask any questions about the losses in the UBS investments?
How big is Workers' Party Town Council accounts compared with $14 billion dollars?
Rb 14 b not a big number lar. The government sell 14 parcels of land got it back already some more at 99 years. The properties will be bought by sinkies so no sweat lar
In Sin,
the Culture of using other peoples' monies has become a refine art.
Making the People to make monies for the Rulers is even better.
And the People love it.
The Sinkies are bored, they need the Spite, Spurs and Spikes to be dished to them. They need sadistic and humiliating treatments to feel joy.
In the Words of a armourous parliamentarian. have sex in a small space and if l may paraphrase it, at a staircase shall also get the Climax and joy of fucking.
ln Sin, if anything is leegalized, there is no wrong or in drug cases, can be less unlawful.
lf leegalised, how big a sum is involved and unjustifiably lost shall be no issue as no one will be accountable.
Living in Sin is challenging and fun bcos Sinkies are magnanimous to their rulers and aliens. They feel proud of themselves for being big hearted.
They open their hearts big big and
abnornally open their legs wide wide and feel shiok shiok.
In many ways, the Sinkies and the Leeders are all sadists to me. Some like to torture a d many love to be tortured.
patriot
In Sin,
the Culture of using other peoples' monies has become a refine art.
Making the People to make monies for the Rulers is even better.
And the People love it.
The Sinkies are bored, they need the Spite, Spurs and Spikes to be dished to them. They need sadistic and humiliating treatments to feel joy.
In the Words of a armourous parliamentarian. have sex in a small space and if l may paraphrase it, at a staircase shall also get the Climax and joy of fucking.
ln Sin, if anything is leegalized, there is no wrong or in drug cases, can be less unlawful.
lf leegalised, how big a sum is involved and unjustifiably lost shall be no issue as no one will be accountable.
Living in Sin is challenging and fun bcos Sinkies are magnanimous to their rulers and aliens. They feel proud of themselves for being big hearted.
They open their hearts big big and
abnornally open their legs wide wide and feel shiok shiok.
In many ways, the Sinkies and the Leeders are all sadists to me. Some like to torture a d many love to be tortured.
patriot
Put the $14 billion dollars loss within the context of this famous quotation:
"How much do you want? Do you want three meals in a hawker centre, food court or restaurant?"
---
Dr Lily Neo:
Sir, I want to check with the Minister again when he said on the strict criteria on the entitlement for PA recipients.
May I ask him what is his definition of "subsistence living"?
Am I correct to say that, out of $260 per month for PA recipients, $100 goes to rental, power supply and S&C and leaving them with only $5 a day to live on?
Am I correct to say that any basic meal in any hawker centre is already $2.50 to $3.00 per meal?
Therefore, is it too much to ask for just three meals a day as an entitlement for the PA recipients?
Dr Vivian Balakrishnan:
How much do you want? Do you want three meals in a hawker centre, food court or restaurant?
https://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2007/04/25/parliamentary-exchange-between-lily-neo-and-mcys-minister/
To put it more simply, PAP can afford such big losses by GIC because PAP will still win the next election! And win big!
9:59 am
Anon 9:59 am, what you described is called risk management.
GIC can afford to take risks of winning or losing big $$$$ for PAP, but there is no risk at all to PAP being voted out.
That being the case, so why not ask GIC to take big risks to make big money? Of course there is the risk of losing big money too which was what had happened but there is no risk to PAP losing power at next election.
So PAP knows risk management very well. And WP not only not ready to be govt, but also don't know risk management so WP deserved to lose and maybe with their MPs even got charged in court for wrongdoing in their Town Council. So sad.
No sweat lah! No seat!
$14,000,000,000.00 is small change. Small change! Peanuts! Peanuts!
It is OPM! OPM! OPM! Not my money! Why care? What for?
If want to get back the $14,000,000,000.00, try RWS or MBS!
Sure can get back! Bet on Baccarat or Big Small! Sure can get back!
Cheers!
Mr redbean Sir.
Q: Which is the fastest way for a Singaporean to lose his wealth in Singapore?
A1. Buy an HDB flat?
A2. Buy UBS shares?
A3. Continue being a Singaporean citizen?
A4. Voting for PAP?
A5. Voting for the Opposition?
WP need to know that the risks to their party and MPs is very, very high even for small mistakes or losses.
So WP need to take urgent risk control measures to mitigate their risks. But also maybe a bit too late now lah.
Don't know why, but I have this premonition that because of their Town Council financial issues, WP MPs may even be charged in court, jailed and disqualified before the next GE.
Rb, in the grand scheme of high finance, loosing 14 b is just peanut more so it's opm. When invested in unit trust as an individual also opm. I remember the fund manager even Genting an award cause in that year the fund he manages lost the least amount compared with others. I have learn my lesson, I no longer invest in anything except spent my hard earned money in enjoyment like Kuda riding.
John Tan
Chairman
Singapore Kuda Club
Vice Chairman
Asia Pacific Kuda Riding Club
Secretary
Global Kuda Riding Club
Past President
Singapore Karaoke Club
The answer to anonymous 1022am question is.....
All the above!
Correct?
Q: Which process has a more difficult criteria for qualifying? Which process requires more time for checks and review?
A1: Applying for social & financial assistance (peanuts) from the PAP government?
A2: Investing billions of dollars in foreign shares?
Q: Providing social and financial assistance to needy Singaporeans. Isn't that the same as investing in the long term betterment and future of Singaporeans (and hence Singapore)?
When Lau Goh wanted to stimulate the markes by his enchancing your assets and finances ponzi schemes, he allocated Sing And Tel shares at a discounted price.
Wah, old uncles like me and old aunties camped at the CDP office days and nights toregister for CDP accounts.
When listed, everyone made MONIES. That's the first cigarette that they have you. Most kena the nicotine and from them most started puffing.
Then they became puffing ostriches including me. The mantra of if you don't sell your shares even if their prices went down rock bottom, you do not lose monies. The economy will go up.Just cycle lah.
Just paper loss lah. Till today the ostriches are still alive including the GIC and Temasick.
But now one Big Ostrich put his head up and got frightened and cut loss. Aiya, only few billions. When the market pick up, my investments will be triple.
To bank on the goon do zero in the Roulette Game is much easier than waiting for the economy to triple your investments.
Why so many uncles, aunties still working at fast foods outlets, coffeeshops and security guards.?? Lau Goh's legacies.
My two childhood friends lost their CPF's funds after 40 years of working and now are security guards.
For me my CPF's statement still shows a 24 over K plus figure as still owing to them. If I were to sell my flat and made a gain, then they would potong from the gains.
This is the stupidity of putting nearly 90K in sing and tel shares when they took over Optus in Aussland.
From 3.60 to about 2.40. Sold at a loss.
At least I liquidated fast enough still able to play roulette from time to time. My poor friends lost most of their entire funds of 300 to 400K.
Now eat chai Png with just curry gravey.
Learn from Peter Lim, hit and run and cut loss to hit again.Now like ostriches putting heads in the sand hoping for your shares to triple when the economy picks up.
The best to stop puffing in shares and play roulette. Chances of 100 times strike on a single digit easier than your shares rising.
So, these GIC or Temasick guys think they are smart picking the right digits. What's there to lose, others monies. Just like the PAP TCs.
Playing with others MONIES for sinking funds. Lost, just increase conservancies charges.
Simple as ABC.
If this huge loss of the people's savings happened in the U.S., the media will make a mountain out of a molehill. But in Singapore, as always, the state media will make a molehill out of a mountain!
When the Transpacific Partnership (TPP) deal was still "live", Lee Hsien Loong once boasted that S'pore is like a bonsai to China - a neatly trimmed model of social order and economic growth for the giant to learn from.
Now that the TPP is dead and China has snubbed him over the One Belt One Road initiative, we wonder if he is still as boastful, pretending to be the wise guru whom everyone must listen to - like his father?
https://www.facebook.com/TAVSingapore/photos/a.360220640705941.85354.358759327518739/1461145080613486/?type=3&theater
Anonymous -1022am feeling is that WP MPs may go to jail!
Wah! Don't play play! Go to jail!
So serious meh?
Many people said that someone in this tiny city got screwed by both superpowers!
Hahaha......
@ May 20, 2017 11:42 am
Wah! Double penetration. So porno.
Singapore is the world champion believer of the "Buy and Pray" style of investment.
Anon 11.35.
Why Not??
WP not PAP you know.
My penthouse PSA neighbour said WP cannot even keep their TC. Account correct, how to be government. I can bet that they go jails.
I said just because they paid their Managing Agents higher fees that's corruptions.
How about.AMK that GM, some more PM constituency misappropriated funds, no jails??
Think he is right. As ex PAP man, he knows how the PAP machineries worked.
Chinese say Pull out the roots to rid all the roots.
Suddenly, WP woke up and ask about the UBS, then hard time to explain.
'armorous'
to be corrected
to amorous.
My apology.
patriot
'armorous'
to be corrected
to amorous.
My apology.
patriot
Q: How do Singaporeans make a small fortune in stock investments?
A: They start by investing a big fortune in UBS shares.
ROFL
Ha Ha Ha Ha
Hi Anon 10.22
Regarding your question, the Answer is number 5
Singaporeans will lose their wealth voting the Opposition.
That's what the daft 70% Sinkies believed.
Now let's see whether they think they lose their wealth faster if they still believe in voting dor the PAP.
@ May 20, 2017 3:55 pm
The former Singaporeans who all emigrated overseas.
They think the answer is A3 - The fastest way to become poor is to continue being a Singaporean citizen?
Agreed with Virgo49 3.55pm that the answer is no.5!
Btw, Virgo49 may wish to know that the market prediction is 80% at the next GE!
Oso H smc and A grc are going back to PAP!
This is Singapore! Not surprising! Is like that lah!
Cheers!
@ May 20, 2017 4:13 pm
Just as even more Singaporeans will vote PAP at the next GE;
Do you think GIC will buy even more foreign bank shares at the next stock market crash?
Hi anonymous 7.15pm........good evening.....the answer to yr question.....is....
Yes! YES! why NOT! Buy! Buy! Buy!
hahaha...........
Hi Anon 7.15.
You think they still have vast reserves to throw good MONIES on bad.
Next stock crash. Now already tanked and crashed.
SIA - 138 MILLIONS
GDP minus minus growth.
T2 Fires / MCE water wastage
Katong Mall/Jurong Fires
Wait a mins, just increase GST 20% and COEs said only limited lots.
Sure get billions to be Father Christmas again.
Cheers
According to the Father, in the name of the Father, it is said that we have to judge everything in proportion. The billions of dollars lost by GIC must also be judged in proportion. Whilst GIC could lose $14 billion, did they at the same time gain $140 billion in other trades?Or 10 billion? or $10,000? or $0.50?
If the answer is no, then i think the GIC management should be changed. They have not done sufficient work considering the high salaries paid to them. It is normal in any company, your nett position is negative, out you go, change hands , next in line please.
The secret dealings of the company are so secret we dont even know the nett position. So actually we cannot really know if the 14 billion lost is ok or not ok, we have no data at all to judge....
This reckless SGD10 billion UBS loss is infuriating when seen in the context of the PAP's meagre health-care budget spending for Singaporeans and Comcare crumbs thrown out to poor Singaporeans . . .
Why are Workers' Party MPs so quiet over the GIC's loss of the money???
Anon 9:07 pm . .
Yah! what are WP MPs in Parliament for ?
Anon 9:07 pm
It is understandable why PAP MPs will never criticize their own leaders or their own party, but it is less understandable why even opposition party MPs from the Workers' Party also don't comment on the saga! Swept under the carpet!
Many commented about WP MPs.
Many had different views about WP MPs.
Heard that the prediction is 80% for PAP at next GE.
Also H & A going back to PAP.
Will these be the realities at next GE?
We shall see.
For now.....be happy and worry less!
Good Night.
This is not a one time loss. GUC has been losing $Billions since its inception.
In 2008, GIC and Temasek Ho's Ding suffered a combined loss of $150 billion or more???
It is time GIC open up the books for Public Scrutiny? It should not be allowed to operate in cloak-and-dagger fashion? It is public funds that GIC is handling???
Disinformation, misinformation and Selective information are practised only by people whose basuc character is to protect themselves from any mistake or wrong-doing or to deceive others for whatever reasons only known to themselves???
A government that boasts and fought tooth and nails to defend its integrity for political reasons, should not shierk its responsibility from honesty providing the true picture of the public funds any of its agencies, departments, ministries and organizations are handl8ng, be they investments or otherwise???
How many more skeletons are there in the cupboards and cabinets???
No wonder President Ong Teng Cheong was ostracized???
"GIC cuts losses of nearly $10 billion!"
OR
"GIC sets up $10 billion dollar fund to help disadvantaged Singaporeans"
------------
In a democracy, you get the government you deserve.
agreed with anonymous 1025am that "In a democracy, you get the government you deserve"
furthermore a massive 70% voted "YES"
and this figure is projected to be 80% at next GE
with H smc and A grc going back to pap
this is singapore, singapore is like that
...with H smc and A grc going back to pap.
10:42 am
No surprise. Because if WP MPs also diam diam like PAP MPs, then vote WP for what, u tell me lah?
" China views Singapore as being less supportive of Xi’s plan because unlike other countries that announced their leaders would attend without requiring a formal invitation, Singapore sought an invite, according to people familiar with the matter."
- Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-05-18/singapore-out-in-the-cold-as-southeast-asia-chases-china-cash
Anonymous - 11.13am, Mr Lawrence Wrong is also one of our very very important leader!
Don't play play! Don't play play!
He may be our next PM!
Anonymous @ 10:42 am:
and this figure is projected to be 80% at next GE
You have insider information that they are going to FIX THE RESULT at 80% to their favour? So daring???
Just a prediction, don't be too serious leh, anonymous 1127am.
Singapore is very transparent and there is no way to fix the results! No fixing! No fixing! No way!
Anything can happen from now to next GE.
All the best to all!
Cheers.
Anon @ May 21, 2017 11:23 am
//He may be our next PM!//
No lah. You are must be having a wet dream.
Lawarence of Sinkie Arabia is trying very hard to project himself. But nobody really knows him well.
In order to be next Sin PM, one has to be in the good books of UK and USA.
The Next PM is likely to be from the Lee Dynastic Family again.
The Tar-Man may be adked to stand-in for one or two terms as Seat-Warmer before Princeling Lee takes over.
Anyone who dares to challenge the Secret Succession plan of the Dynasty will be SQUASHED!!!
Just watch the show .....
AKAN DATANG!
Anonymous 1139am, u are very good!
Can be our chief fortune teller!
AKAN DATANG!
There are TWO Education Ministers.
So why not TWO Prime Ministers?
Anyway.
Do you think it's really the Senior Minister who will be in charge?
So who will be the next Senior Minister?
Guess.
Jack Ma to launch Alibaba’s regional distribution hub in Malaysia
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2017/03/19/jack-ma-to-launch-alibabas-regional-distribution-hub-in-malaysia/
Alibaba Group founder: It’s an honour to help Malaysia develop digital economy
-------------
Malaysians will see Jack Ma more often in the next few years as China’s e-commerce giant plans to fulfil his responsibilities as a “good” adviser to the Malaysian Government on digital economy.
The 52-year-old founder and executive chairman of Alibaba Group made the promise during a meet-the-press session.
He will also bring more partners here to work with Malaysia. For this trip, he brought along 16 Chinese logistics companies whose businesses account for 43% of the world’s deliveries.
Ma was in Malaysia to launch Malaysia’s Digital Free Trade Zone (DFTZ) with Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak on Wednesday, four months after both of them had met in Beijing. He also spoke at the Global Transformation Forum (GTF) 2017 yesterday.
@ May 21, 2017 12:11 pm
http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2017/03/24/ill-fulfil-adviser-role-promises-ma-alibaba-group-founder-its-an-honour-to-help-malaysia-develop-dig/
DFTZ will be a business run by Malaysians, says Jack Ma
-------------------------
Ali Baba chief says they hired and trained Malaysians in China, subsequently sending them home to ensure that the business in Malaysia is run by locals.
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2017/03/24/dftz-will-be-a-business-run-by-malaysians-says-jack-ma/
+++++++++++
China trains Malaysians to be employees in Malaysia.
What about PAP's Singapore?
Do they train Singaporeans or foreigners to be employees in Singapore?
Yes! Everything is happening in Malaysia!
Yes! They are fast becoming the HUB of Asean.
Will they overtake this pee-sai?
Solve their political issues and maybe Malaysia boleh!
Malaysia boleh or Singapore boleh?
Malaysia boleh or PAP boleh?
Already confirmed.
Singaporeans cannot boleh.
That is why Singaporeans must be replaced with foreigners.
Already confirmed.
Singaporeans cannot boleh.
12:39 pm
Tiok. Singaporeans tak boleh.
If Singaporean opposition not even boleh to be govt, how can Singaporeans be boleh?
...how can Singaporeans be boleh?
12:46 pm
Depend on which Singaporeans lah.
Singaporean ministers and those who are rich, of course they boleh. Boleh to make lots of money and have good life, never mind baby milk powder cost $60 a tin, or even HDB pigeonhole can cost $1M.
A Singaporean MP is not the same as a PAP MP.
LTK is a Singaporean MP.
Lawrence is a PAP MP.
Singaporean does not equal PAP.
PAP does not equal Singaporean.
True or not?
PAP is now too big to fail!
PAP is everywhere!
Everyday is PAP day.
Look at the endless activities organised by PAP!
To many many SG = PAP n PAP =SG!
Tooooooooooooo late to change! Tooooooooooooo late to change!
Tooooooooooooo late to change! Tooooooooooooo late to change!
May 21, 2017 2:38 pm
Looks like China will change Singapore for us.
PAP is now too big to fail!
2:38 pm
Tiok. And because opposition is too small to succeed!
Small = disunited + not ready to be govt = sure lose one
disunited = LTK, CSJ, GMS, KJ, CST, CST wife, LT, TJS etc all got big ego and don't want to talk to each other. They rather lose than to talk about opposition unity.
not ready to be govt = LTK said so one. And if LTK said so, who else dare to say they are ready? Voters will ask them to go for IMH checkup if they said they are ready to be govt.
Looks like China will change Singapore for us.
3:05 pm
China now see Sinkie Hsien Loong no up lah.
So China not interested in Sinkie Hsien Loong anymore, not that China will change Singapore for Sinkies.
Only Sinkies can change Singapore for Sinkies.
But Sinkies don't want to change Sinkie Hsien Loong, so nothing will change if Sinkie Hsien Loong doesn't want to change.
SG100 will still PAP!
So don't waste time!
Oppositions here cannot make it lah!
Such tiny city state already so many parties!
They have forgotten, unity is strength!
To have a fighting chance, there must be only one opposition party as an alternative to PAP.
Otherwise don't waste time!
@ May 21, 2017 12:11 pm
Even Alibaba don't want to business with our Ah Lee Baba
Singapore Alternative Parties too small for PAP.
Very true.
And
Sin is too small to be a nation.
Not significant to be of anything. So,
who would want to have Sin or take over it?
True or not?
patriot
Singapore Alternative Parties too small for PAP.
Very true.
And
Sin is too small to be a nation.
Not significant to be of anything. So,
who would want to have Sin or take over it?
True or not?
patriot
Anyone thinks that other countries would want to have Sin and get themselves to feed Sinkies?
There is absolutely nothing to harvest in the Tiny Dot except Daft Sinkies.
Who wants Sin?
patriot
Who wants Sin?
May 21, 2017 4:44 pm
PAP lor.
Where and who else wants to pay them million dollar salaries?
Singapore - with no U.S. TPP, no China B&R, no EU-SGP FTA, etc under the helm of PM Lee Hsien Loong, will that make any adverse impact on jobless Singaporeans like us? It's better for the Singapore economy to implode, and the foreigners have to leave, so that deflationary forces bring down the currently world's highest costs of living for those surviving on savings!
Completely agree with Anon @ May 21, 2017 7:16 pm
It's better for the Singapore economy to implode, and the foreigners have to leave...
7:16 pm
Singapore economy can implode meh? Foreigners have to leave meh?
Then how come population can become more and more hah? Sinkie fertility rate very high now, is it? A lot of Sinkie babies born is it?
Why has the cost of living in Singapore escalated to the highest in the world today?
Is it because the Singapore dollar is getting smaller.
Debasement?
Singapore money supply M2 increased to S$573,038.30 million in March 2017 from a mere S$6,182.30 million in February 1974 . . .
Singapore money supply M2 increased to S$573,038.30 million in March 2017 from a mere S$6,182.30 million in February 1974 . . .
Anon May 21, 2017 8:13 pm
Is it a case of too much money chasing after too few goods in the tiny overcrowded island state?
Sin will be a playground and haven for the Filthy Rich and Powerful. They will exploit foreign workers to work and serve them.
As for Sinkies, those who make it will be part of the
Elites, the Rest; You die your business.
patriot
Anyway, PAP will make sinkies pay for the losses easily using COE, ERP and high social housing costs. The solution is to emigrate.
Yeah good job ! Could've been worse. In any case we're looking at the big picture and is only interested in the long haul not some short term profits. All responsible will be promoted in due course. In the meantime just enjoy the fat bonuses coming your way.
Let those fools kpkb all they want. We'll just ignore them and continue doing what's right and not what's popular. After all what can they do to us ?
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