12/28/2012
Medical fees for the seniors in Hongkong
‘…in HK everybody enjoys virtually free medical benefits. This is especially worthwhile for seniors who have more needs to see a doctor. In HK, all government hospitals charge a maximum of only HK$100 = S$16 for the treatment of any disease inclusive of all medicines, regardless of how many times the patient has to come back to see the doctor. …’
This is an extract from an article by AFP on the benefits of growing old in Hongkong. One of the biggest bug bear of ageing is medical fee. And if I read the article right, ‘everybody enjoys virtually free medical benefits’ in HK, not free totally but the cost must be quite minimal compares to what Sinkies are paying in our public hospitals. And $16 for the seniors, inclusive of medicine is a steal. And there is no mean testing to see who gets what or how much difference must be the subsidies. They are not that mean and petty.
Hongkong is very similar in nature to Sin City in many ways, including standard of living, cost of living and even taxation. Why shouldn’t our govt use the HK medical model to structure our medical services, particularly the fees for citizens and senior citizens? Why is it that HK can afford such medical benefits for its citizens and we cannot despite the billions or maybe trillions of reserves that we boast about? And the subsidies for medical services must be quite enormous for the HK Govt to bear, and the best part, it is not going bankrupt for providing them.
In the same article it was suggested that the cost savings by the HK Govt is that they don’t pay their politicians and civil servants ‘out of this world’ salary. And they too are not corrupt, quite as corruption free as Sin Govt. Should Sin Govt learn from HK Govt or vice versa, to provide good quality medical services to the citizens at very reasonable cost, but not very affordable cost? Is the quality of the medical service in HK much lower than that in Sin or comparable while the cost to the HK people is really peanuts?
The most frightening thing in Sin today is to fall sick, young or old. Many will be facing bankruptcy even with Medisave and Medishield unless one is very well provided with private insurance to end up paying less than $10 for a major op.
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36 comments:
You want medical treatment to be affordable?
You vote Opposition lor.
The power is in your hands.
You either stick it to yourself or you stick it to the PAPigs in your vote.
Me am disappointed and sad to note that older Sinkies, those born in the early 50s and earlier, had failed to recall and remind younger Singaporeans of the Colonial System
of healthcare, education and social welfare.
Singapore, Malaya abd Hong Kong were All Ex British Colonies sharing the Same British Governance. To date, Malaysia and Hong Kong still retain the Heakthcare System implemented by the Then Colonial Master, the British.
The Healthcare System in practice in Hong Kong and Malaysia is a heritage and a very desirable one, that is a legacy of the British Empire. UNFORTUNATELY, it was usurped and morped into the Monster System tgat it is today.
I offer no apology to those who questioned me times and again where is the money coming from, had Singapore retains the Old British System.
The ANSWER is with every Malaysian and Hongkie if You care to ask. There is no point in asking back the same thing one willingly gave up. Blame oneself and lives in regret for not knowing better.
patriot
Where is the money going to come from?
Where do you think the money comes from to pay for the Millionaire Minister's salaries?
From the hard work and bank account of the Singapore taxpayers lah.
You vote PAP.
And the money is spent of Ministers' salaries;
GIC and Temasek losses (I mean investments);
and our defence budget.
You vote Opposition.
And the money is spent on benefiting yourself, your children and your families.
HK don't have any army ready to fight imaginary enemies in the north and south
@anon 1230: Correct. HK is "looked after" by the mandarins in Beijing.
Just because HK has universal healthcare doesn't mean they are "right" or that it is sustainable.
Free of subsidized healthcare has in-built threats to personal freedom -- nevermind the fact that eventually it will run out of money.
If the state is taxing me to pay for everybody's health, then I have a legitimate right to tell the state to REGULATE how people live -- i.e. to ensure that they are FORCED to live healthy lives -- what to eat, to not drink or smoke, to not engage in "dangerous" activities ( as arbitrarily defined and BANNED by the state).
Everyone gets sick. Everyone gets old. Everyone has to eat. It is ludicrous to expect the government to feed everyone, just as it is INSANE to believe that the government can LOOK AFTER everyone.
Isn't it strange how you can see people spending money on new household goods like TV etc or taking holidays...or buying a new car, but when you ask them to pay for medical bills or their health you get all sorts of screaming childish behaviour.
If people do not feel the "pain" of bad lifestyle decisions affecting their health, they are apt to act more irresponsibly by indulging in risky and unhealthy behaviours.
Medial care is not an entitlement. It is a privilege.
Knn matilah, can you explain the difference between entitlement and privilege in healthcare.
One day when hundreds or thousands get killed daily by an infectious disease, you tell the world that healthcare is a privilege. Your sickening idea of privilege.
anon 146:
You are using extreme case to justify day-to-day normal operations.
The best way to prevent infectious disease is by observing good hygiene and have good habits. If you don't, your problem. In an EPIDEMIC situation, yes of course, the government has to step in to at the very least enforce quarantine, with armed soldiers/ police if necessary.
You should already know the difference between entitlement and privilege. If you don't, you have NO BUSINESS in discussing matters of civil society and its organisation. I suggest you find a hard brick wall and smash your head against it...until you feel you're "smarter", because at the present you are coming across as a total dumb-asshole.
Regards. Seasons Greetings.
RB, while I cannot comment on which model is the best, I do believe our health care system is too expensive and inaccessible to the poor. Governemnt hide the cost through hefty discount but they did not explain to you why the original cost is so high in the first place. Another sore point is that they use your Medisave component as part of discount and say a patient only needs to pay so much cash at the end.
For those who could not afford even after all the discounts, good luck to you since getting a waiver is worse than applying for a job in the ministry. You need to show proof and fill endless form. At the end you are most likely to be turned down. You die your problem!
Having good hygiene and habit immune one from disease?
You might as well say it also prevents one from becoming sick.
What a sick argument.
There is no such thing as healthcare will bankrupt government per se. Also the claim the government goes bankrupt because of too much welfare is a myth and propaganda. People are not aware that the over-whelming control of the rich over the mass media.
I present a over-simplistic scenario. If PAP "cannot" afford the healthcare, we can always tax all the surplus of hospital. Then we will have enough.
In USA, if the government "cannot" balance the budget, they can always stop international trade and tax away all the surplus of counter-party.
I certain do not agree on the above scenario. That is to show all ridiculous those claims of PAP that say we "cannot" afford.
During the late 60s and early 70s, the GPs charged only $10 or $15 per visit. Even then they lived very well, living in bungalows and driving Mercedes Benz.
Today, many GPs have to charge few times more. And they could not afford bungalows and Mercedes. Many only living in condos and driving Japanese cars.
Hi RB, doctor is a labor. So in the long run, they will loose out.
Many Singaporeans are blinded by greed of asset enhancement. But asset enhancement in essence are run-away inflation posing as economic growth. There is no growth in asset enhancement. It is an exploitation by shifting economic power from labor to capital.
The more asset inflation, the more you are going to work for free for those landlord. Eventually, the price of your labor will be ZERO.
In China, they call it landlordism, and China practiced it for at least 2500 years. That is nothing new.
Redbean,
please don't compare a SINful country run by oppressive dictator and family to a true democratic HK. It is like comparing smelly shit to Hor Fun ... if you agree with me, please kee chiew.
Looks like Matillah will never be sick.
Very sure he is top in hygiene and behavioral discipline.
Good boy he must be
Yes, asset enhancement reduces the value of labour and enhances the value of non productive assets like properties. Labour gets exploited.
It has another element, transferring the debt from the older generation(into profit) to the new generation. The new generation will have to pay for all the expensive assets that initially cost a peanut.
"If people do not feel the "pain" of bad lifestyle decisions affecting their health, they are apt to act more irresponsibly by indulging in risky and unhealthy behaviours."
My nephew is only six and having leukemia. It is not his fault or his parents fault. Who to blame? Maybe the gov for wanting people to make babies but not bearing any responsibility?
In a society, certain things have to be share, certain responsibilities have to be share to make the society a better one. No man is an island.
"If people do not feel the "pain" of bad lifestyle decisions affecting their health" - in a different perspective, if the gov do not feel the pain of medical costs, there will be no incentive to ensure the air is clean, the people are good and healthy. thats why they flooded the city with disease and evil aliens.
The KEY QUESTION is;
----------------------
What were the merits of selling the software in the first place?
What additional merits and value does a $2 company bring to the operations of town councils?
Matilah don't KPKB if one day you or your family member having seriously sick and need to pay expensive medical bill for the long term medical care.
Those who can think properly will know that nowadays PAP is a FUCK TYPE government. Only want to take money from their citizens.
Matilah will pay every cent on the bill.
He certainly sounds like a very responsible and patriotic citizen, may be even a pappy.
Like he says, hygiene conscious and responsible lifestyle shud keep him and his family disease free and may be wont grow old and feeble.
Singaporeans want to know the Rationale for the Queer Arrangenent.
And they have the Right to demand for an explanation.
patriot
Cum, cum now people. Why you getting upset about my opinion? It's probably bullshit anyway.
Every "pubic good" draws on the collective productive resources of the population, not limited to, but usually in the form of some sort of TAX.
If you are cool with that, go ahead, knock yourselves out -- go socialist and be deluded and happy ;-)
For me? Been there. Done that. Have been seriously, and expensively ill before. I'm of little doubt, some similar scenario will visit me, who know when? Therefore, I prepare.
Satisfied?
Got Plan B?
Matilah, Luck Tan can tell you why high medical cost is dangerous.
http://singaporemind.blogspot.sg/2011/01/30-jump-in-class-c-hospital-bills-since.html
It is more dangerous for Minister Khaw to say that medical care is affordable than for Minister Mah to say that HDB flats is affordable. For HDB flats, everyone knows the truth but for medical care many don't know what is going on until they get seriously ill.
Apart from medical aspects HK also has other fine quality including:
Wikipaedia -- The ICAC is independent of the Hong Kong Civil Service.
The Basic Law of Hong Kong stipulates that the ICAC shall function independently and be directly accountable to the Chief Executive of Hong Kong.
Previous to the transfer of sovereignty in 1997, ICAC reported directly to the Governor of Hong Kong, and appointments to the ICAC were also made directly by his office.
HongKong medical,unions,ICAC has same as other British system:
WIKIPEDIA :NEW SOUTH WALES
Structure and operation
The ICAC has jurisdiction over state and local government in New South Wales. This extends to parliamentarians, local councillors, the Governor of New South Wales, public servants, police and staff of universities and state-owned corporations.
Anyone can refer matters to the commission.
The commission has the coercive powers of a Royal Commission and can compel witnesses to testify. Where the ICAC rules that an official has acted corruptly, the charges are referred to the criminal justice system for trial.
The ICAC is led by a single commissioner, who, though the agency belongs within the New South Wales Premier's Department, reports directly to the presiding officers of the Parliament of New South Wales. The commissioner serves a single five-year term and cannot be dismissed except by the Governor.
Matilah,
I strongly disagree with what you said: "If people do not feel the pain of bad lifestyle decisions affecting their health, they are apt to act more irresponsibly by indulging in risky and unhealthy behaviours."
Regardless of how well you maintain your lifestyle and your health you must necessarily grow old and sick someday. Even Lee Kuan Yew grows old and sick, except that he is very well taken care of by free medical benefits, whereas commoners like me have to pay heavily to heal ourselves.
Do you expect those who cannot to pay for health to just lie in bed and wait for death to take place?
To add insult to injury, all medical, hospitalisation and surgical expenses are subject to the abominable 7% GST. My friend's daughter who had terminal leukemia also had to pay the 7% GST for the treatment to prolong her life by a few months.
Surely the least the government should do is to waive GST for essential medical expenses, and not make money from the helpless sick.
The KEY question is;
---------------------
Where is the money going to come from?
From the same place as the money to pay for the Millionaire Ministers' salaries.
Money comes from the hard work and bank accounts of all Singaporeans.
You vote PAP.
And the money is spent on Ministers' salaries;
GIC and Temasek losses (I mean investments);
and our defence budget.
You vote Opposition.
And the money is spent on benefiting yourself, your children and your families.
The govt is treating the Medisave and CPF as compulsory taxes. CPF can be channelled to other govt interests, buying govt bonds which indirectly transfer the money out for the govt to do anything it wants. GIC, Temasek come to mind.
The outrageous thing is the Medisave and minimum sum. It is as good the people paying out front for their medical expenses, needed or not, but compulsory. And they add insurance scheme on top of it. Isn't this huge outlay in the Medisave good enough as an insurance coverage.
And yes, the part that Medisave is gthe people's money is ignored as money. What a person paid through his Medisave not counted. As good as not your money. The govt only talks about how much more out of your pocket as if that is the only amount you paid.
This kind of deception accounting will no longer be taken in by the people. The robbing of the people to pay the govt out of this world salary must come to an end, or the party will come to an end.
To a certain extent I agree with Matilah that by adopting a health conscious lifestyle one can generally enjoy a healthy life. But no matter how careful one may be about our health, there are certain diseases we simply cannot prevent, such as glaucoma, certain skin diseases and many others for which medical science do yet know the causes for. Although glaucoma and prostate diseases are often age related, the incidence of these diseases do occur among younger people as well. Some prostate diseases and skin diseases may not be life threatening but they may impose long term financial burden which may be unbearable especially for the elderly, retired and unemployed people.
The national dialysis programme is a shame. The patients are paying a life sentence and needed to pay heavily for a sickness. The hefty cost must be brought down with govt assistance, not by the public and charity.
In a CIVILIZED SOCIETY, the law of the jungle must not be allowed. That is the strong, powerful and vicious preying on the weak, sick and old.
Diseases and aging problems are different from keeping oneself in tip top fitness or for some, even their virility and prowess. Over the years, medical conditions have been commercially adulterated and made to cover even aesthetics. It is sick interpretation, but in sickly conmercialized society, sick minds are aplenty.
No matter how, we should never allow sickos to apply their laws of the jungle onto us. Singaporeans must do their best to imbue some conscience into those folks incharge of the Healthcare System. Otherwise, it will be matilah Singaporeans instead of matilah Singapura, worse semua mati.
patriot
WOW! It seems that I touched a few raw nerves here...to the point where some very stupid people already bereft of cogent arguments resort to wishes of ill-will upon 'lil 'ol me.
Classic childishness: cannot argue or make points, so "wish" bad luck on opponent. All this "wishing"...for children lah. Just because you "wish" (or pray -- another worthless activity) for something doesn't mean it will come true.
So to all those "wishers" and their "wishful thinking", I have a New Year Wish for you: please live long and suffer the consequences of your fucked thinking, motherfuckers ^_^ You wish me death, I wish you LIFE -- a long, hard, unhappy one -- fair exchange? I think so :-))
The arguments against the 'evils' of socialism in general and socialised medicine in particular, here is another reason why the govt is probably the WORST CHOICE for health provider: you don't even trust the government to deliver:
1. Retirement money
2. Public transport
3. Transparency in accounting
4. Law and justice
… and now you want the government to look after your medical requirements.
More evidence of fucked thinking from cluttered minds which are not only delusional but dysfunctional.
Anyway, just wallow in your hallucinations, enjoy your wishful thinking, and keep your false hopes as your sole purpose in life and reason for living, and don't worry, your lazy-ass, disempowered entitlement mentality gives the politicians the very tool they need to manipulate you.
By doing so, you create real life comedy for the likes of me to enjoy.
Got wishes and hopes?
Curse for curse,
swear for swear.
An eye for a eye,
everything is fair
and square.
Power rests with the people. People can go and protest but they are as afraid as a mouse - results of NS brainwashing, politics that instil fear etc. Even people from China and India know how to protest.
We've been paying 'dues' to LKYism eversince Old Guards late Drs. Goh Keng Swee & Toh Chin Chye and company gave up on him in 1984 onwards due to the support he gets from relatives near & far in parliament. From then on it was a field day far LKYism to prosper when ahkia got lymphoma cancer to up the remunerations of ministers to exhorbitant & estronomical proportions found nowhere else in this whole world!
My dad's generation & older who didn't vote for a chap call LKY.. ranted.. even stomped when he won big in 1959. They knew then what this guy is about and it is repression. Thus.. they all call PAP as not only "pay And pap.. but also "pay and Pay until rice urn no rice" too! So.. GE2011's 60.1% are either naive of these things.. daft as LKY called them even having voted for PAP.. or plains nerd with no brains! How then not to hvae to pay through our noses to sustain such rampant elites?.. when I know people who vote or don't vote for PAP also can say that.. LKY & LKYism isn't about money and love for it too! Now go LHL you wish too!
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