6/19/2019

Nathan Rich – Hongkongers protest for the sake of protesting

As a responsible government, I feel obliged to find a way to deal with the Taiwan murder case so that justice can be done for the deceased, her parents and society, while at the same time address the deficiencies in our system so that Hong Kong will not become a place for criminals to evade legal responsibility. 
Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/carrie-lam-hong-kong-speech-extradition-bill-in-full-11630390
The above is Carrie Lam's comment in her long speech on the Extradition Bill that has since been suspended due to the street protest. Nathan Rich, an American working in China gave a more detail explanation for the Extradition Bill and the irrational Hongkongers protesting against this Bill.



In Nathan King’s video on the recent protest in Hong Kong against the Extradition Bill, he explained it clearly the reasons for this Bill. Nathan Rich is an American, a creative tech nerd working in China. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCokRDKR89c



In short, the Bill came about when a Hongkonger brought his girl friend to Taiwan, murdered her, put her into her luggage bag and dragged it out of the hotel. He subsequently disposed her body and returned to Hong Kong to brag about it. The Taiwanese could not bring him back to face murder charges due to a lack of extradition treaty between Taiwan and Hong Kong. Though the crime was committed in Taiwan, I am puzzled why Hong Kong could not prosecute him.


This is the story that led to the Extradition Bill proposed and initiated by the Hong Kong govt, not by China. Initially there were a lot of opposition just like the Huawei and anything related to China, it is bad, can be bad, could be bad. The strongest critic by an anti China lawyer for fear of this new law being abused for political prosecution eventually accepted the Bill after several provisions were included against such possibilities. The Bill will not be used for political prosecution etc etc.


Still the protest went on and such a big scale. Why, the Hongkongers could not understand the Bill, protest for the sake of protesting, just being anti China when the Bill was proposed by the Hong Kong govt to ensure that justice is done and criminals would not get away from their crimes, or there is something more sinister to the protest, instigated by foreign elements?


As Nathan has said, this is an irrational protest, creating irrational chaos. This is lawlessness and the law is supreme against lawless people. There is no excuse to engage in lawlessness.


I agree that the protestors should be put down. All the baseless allegations cannot hold water in this case about abuses, just like the American dubious allegations against Huawei is mischievous.


Protesting against this Bill is saying, murder, crimes by Hongkongers overseas are ok and should not be prosecuted. The Hongkongers are protecting their criminals from foreign prosecution.


If this is not obstruction to justice what is?  What do you think?

25 comments:

Unknown said...

Protecting a murderer from being extradited to Taiwan for trial is a crime. The 2 million protesters are therefore criminals.

All those fools who are protesting are the leftovers who could not emigrate before Hongkong was returned to China by the British in 1997. Some of them have emigrated to or studied in the US and returned back to HK after being trained as CIA operatives in the payrolls of USA.

HK's Chief Executive should not have to apologize. But she apologized not once but twice. The second time even more absurdly remorseful. This shows her weakness as a leader. She should step down or be removed.

Anonymous said...

China should crush the Hong Kong protesters the same way it crushed the Tiananmen protesters !

Anonymous said...

Rb, the Hongkongers' perspectives r a whole lot different from yours. They r pretty concerns of their future by their Carry Lam administration making law unilaterally, if their govt had done some consultative approach more like the Sinkies ones, most likely that kind of a protests wouldn't take place. As for criminals foreigners hiding at HK to get away with the law is another separate issues under the current HK law this need to be address. What the common Hongkers viewed the matter is entirely different as they r worried about the 'oppressive law' being passed much like the Sinkies ISA law to clamp down political dissenters. The Chief executive has got a lot to answer to the people when things got off hand. Another factor is the power of social media spread like wild fire, any public education to the people becomes too slow and too late. It's another lesson learnt from this incident by Sinkieland.

Anonymous said...

Hello 833am

Don't be so black heart leh!

Hahaha....

Anonymous said...

@All,

Xi himself called Carrie to postpone it. Wise leaders know when to bend with the wind & take advantage of it. Since he's president-for-life he can afford to play the loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooog game. Unfortunately Carrie has been made to appear the stooge & will be out shortly. Even the business cartels or hongs (which are now more & more mainland cheena) that were supportive of her has turned against her.

Unknown said...

China does not have to crush the protesters. The protesters will sooner or later crush themselves.

All China has to do is to reduce trade with Hongkong and imposed restriction of movements between Hongkong and Mainland, using this incident as an excuse: claiming possible inflow of undesirable elements from Hongkong to Mainland, especially to Shenzhen and Macao.

Such actions will see the economy of Hongkong collapse and there will be hunger and riots. Then the HK police will arrest the rioters, especially their Chieftains.

Alternatively, HK government can declare a state of emergency and request Mainland for assistance. China can then send in troops and tanks to stabilize the situation.....

How many people will be killed or arrested? Maybe more than Tien-An-Men? Is it worthwhile? Is it necessary?
For the continued harmony, unity, national integrity, peace and progress of the country, sacrificing a few hundred stupid people may be worthwhile and necessary.

Chinese people, for the last 6000 years, never kowtow to leaders who were weak. They only kowtow to leaders who were strong, hard-headed, decisive and mean business.

Xi Jin-Ping must learn from Deng Xiao-Ping and Lee Kuan-Yew.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

China is facing a lot of foreign pressure at the moment. As for HongKong, they will let it shrivelled and eventually become a little desert town.

The bill has been discussed and cut to size for criminal offencesonly, not political. The Hongkongers are harping about China, China, China just like the Americans. They did not think they are Chinese and one day would be treated as such.

There are many ways to skin a cat and time is on China's side. HongKongers can be sacrificed if needed to protect the whole country. Just don't push their luck too far.

The HongKongers have won a battle but lost the war.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

Nathan does great vids, but in this one he is quite mistaken.

Sure, in every "movement" there are the blind followers---the people who just want to belong, so they go along, in this case protesting for protest's sake. What's the issue? It doesn't matter....just go...

But after these people are accounted for, Nathan's cognitive bias (confirmtion bias) causes him to make errors in judgement.

Before (about 2 weeks) the mass of people protested the extradition bill, 3000 Hong Kong lawyers marched in their sombre black robes to protest the proposed bill. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-politics-extradition-march/hong-kong-lawyers-protest-polarizing-extradition-bill-in-rare-march-idUSKCN1T71KY

We can be sure that there are few "me-too'ers" in the legal profession where the Money Meter goes cha-ching every minute. Time is money to these folks. Rest assured these lawyers would have read the bill more carefully than the average citizen, so they know about the provisions and "safeguards".

Fact#2 which Nathan missed: even after the protests, after Carrie backed down, new protests erupted...they want the bill totally GONE, killed and buried forever...and Carrie to resign.

When people are individually interviewed, the COMMON REASON for the protest boils down to this:

HONG KONGERS SIMPLY DO NOT TRUST BEIJING AND THE CCP regardless of what "safeguards" there are. No extradition, that's that. They won't accept anything less...at least for now.

The perception is that the HK locals want as little to do with the mainland authorities as possible. And in all matters political: PERCEPTION IS, AND BECOMES REALITY.

It's never about objectivity or truth. Trump is perceived to be fit for the presidency. So he got it. The PAP is perceived to be the best for Singapore. And so they stay in office. One more time, knock it into your stubborn skull: PERCEPTION IS AND BECOMES REALITY

Anonymous said...

The Real Reality is that Hong Kong is a tiny tiny part of China, maybe even smaller than Beijing.
Even if the whole population of 7 millions are against the extradiction, add some more from Taiwan,
they are subject to the Rule of the Mainland.
Period.


Unknown said...

Perception goes both ways.

But power comes out from the ones who hold the biggest gun. China is not Western Democracy. Hongkong is not a Western Democracy yet, though some have aspired to turn Hongkong into Western Demoncracy.

Hongkongers have a fixed bias perception of/about China. The Mainland Chinese also have a fixed bias perception about Hongkongers.

Hongkong's population is about 7.5 to 8.5 million. Two million protesters and 3000 lawyers trained in the West combined make only about 25 to 30 percent of the population. Similar to the ratio in Singapore of 70% vs 30%.

Mainland China can handle the 30% slowly and surely. Just learn from PAP.

The Chinese leadership has already have a handful of challenges from the foreign powers to deal with. In the mean time, they would not want the situation in HK to flare up further. However, they will not allow Hongkongers to be used as shit-stirers by foreign powers to destabilize the whole of China.

For now Xi Jinping is taking it easy towards HK. But time is running out. When Xi Jinping is a little bit free, he will turn his focus towards solving the HK problems once and for all.

If Xi Jinping is not able to tackle internal problems, how can he be looked upon as a capable leader by the rest of the world. How can he manage China if he is not able to manage HK?

The HK problem is not as big as the Xijiang and the Tibet problems. It's only a matter of time before everything will fall in line in HK.

The one nation two systems concept may have to go if it is not working peacefully, if it becomes a threat to the unity and integrity of the Motherland.



Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ all

You are are forgetting one thing, the most important one and that which determines to the eventual outcome:

The people get the country (in this case of HK, the territory) they DESERVE. Sometimes they align with their government, occasionally they go against the government. The govt has more guns and resources, so when push comes to shove, the govt will invariably "silence" any dissidence by SHEER and OVERWHELMING FORCE...and LEGAL FORCE at that.

...or The People will succeed in ousting their current government and getting in a different one. These processes can go on for years, decades even.

Recently, the laid-back Malaysians threw out their govt and UMNO. UMNO has been ruling Malaysians for over 50 years. last election: OUT!

I will never bet with or against a people or their govt in instances like these. It could go either way, and it could get crazy...or peaceful.

UG said...

Wah seh. Really hoot and hoot. I buy toto also not so accurate.

Anonymous said...

Matilar
must have taken the Peoples Liberation Army
like the auxiliary force and SPF at the Little lndia Riot.

UG said...

The China so big. Want Hong Kong for what. They want cantonese people, cos hong tou jing very hardworking, there no guang zhou meh? Every country got their lawyer what, if murder people, the lawyer in their own country dunno got such things as lie detector test? This kind of country China want? China no need Taiwan, no need Hong Kong, cannot invent Huawei? 6 smoke bomb also can promote ah. NTU NUS so li hai also never invent Huawei ah? Plus the FT here also very li hai cos can come to world class country, also never help us make our housing cheaper, cpf issues like alternative website say, cost of living, and other ding ding dong dong issues like alternative website say. Lan Hao Lan era. No need so many reservist. Mai waste time. Ask Gurkha can liao. $120 pounds can feed for months, of cos loyal right?

Anonymous said...

No supporter ftom Guangzhou,
Macau and Hainan lsland,
speak volume about the Issue.
That few hundred thousand demonstrators are seen by and large as trouble makers by other PRC Citizens and Chinese World wide.

Anonymous said...

Rb, Yes the PLA should deploy their tanks like in the past then these jokers will know. Knn true or not.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

When people are individually interviewed, the COMMON REASON for the protest boils down to this:

HONG KONGERS SIMPLY DO NOT TRUST BEIJING AND THE CCP regardless of what "safeguards" there are. No extradition, that's that. They won't accept anything less...at least for now.

The perception is that the HK locals want as little to do with the mainland authorities as possible. And in all matters political: PERCEPTION IS, AND BECOMES REALITY.

...PERCEPTION IS AND BECOMES REALITY
June 19, 2019 12:46 pm

Both reasons are irrelevant and meaningless to China. The Hongkongers may think they are indispensable and could dictate to Beijing. This is insanity. When China's patience is put to test, it will be all over for the Hongkongers. They are just a tiny drop in the Chinese sea of humanity.

Anonymous said...

Hongkies have an attitude, believing they are a class by themselves above the other Chinese in the Mainland. They probably forget that Hong Kong is ruled from the Mainland and not by their previous colonial masters in England.

Anonymous said...

What an incompetent leader apologising for introducing a much needed extradition bill. Yet the hare-brained Hongkies are still not satisfied and threaten to go on the streets again. Agree with the mobs that she should step down and let the unruly crowd rule the territory, maybe with the help of their financial sponsors and instigators.

Anonymous said...

//...This is insanity. When China's patience is put to test, it will be all over for the Hongkongers. They are just a tiny drop in the Chinese sea of humanity...//

Ungle, maybe u r over estimating the China's greatness, Hongkongers' mass protests can't be underestimated as the whole world r watch how China CCP or Chief Executive of HK going to deal with the matter rationally with a 'irrational' crowd on mass.

No countries on this planet can lead or rule the world forever, even China or the West knew tat; China cud even desert or give up on that HK island but it wouldn't happen cos they wud need some time and wisdom to solve the international issues. HK may seen as tiny drop similarly China can be seen as tiny drop against the ocean, or galaxy or this universe ( as Chinese is about 20% of the world's population, there is still others as well).

What the China CCP or Chief Executive HK can do now is patience, tolerance, PR, education, educations..the progress is slow but it can be done for the betterment of the people.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ RB

>> BECOMES REALITY.

...PERCEPTION IS AND BECOMES REALITY
June 19, 2019 12:46 pm

Both reasons are irrelevant and meaningless to China. The Hongkongers may think they are indispensable and could dictate to Beijing. This is insanity. When China's patience is put to test, it will be all over for the Hongkongers. They are just a tiny drop in the Chinese sea of humanity. <<


Agree 1000 x10^1000 %

Exactly. That is REALITY based on not only your perception, but by most if ot all of the HK protesters.

That’s why they won’t quit; they can’t. After Tiananmen 1984, HK was the first “port of refuge” for the dissenters who fled the mainland. HK’ers know EXACTLY what the score is and what they face if their own government acedes to the wishes of Beijing.

I say again, because obviously you missed it the 1st 2 times:

PERCEPTION IS, AND EVENTUALLY BECOMES REALITY

Anonymous said...

乳臭未乾,不知死活的小辈。
不懂饮水思源,背親叛祖,
卖国求荣,
理当法办。

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

#NoExtradition INSTAGRAM PIC

HK woman explains why she doesn't need sex

Anonymous said...

Why the protesters make so much troubles for their fellowfolks.
Just go and live anywhere where they can find the freedom and democracy to live.
Peace to all.