7/03/2016

The dangerous precedents to be set by The Hague



The Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague has announced that a
decision will be made on the South China Sea island dispute filed by the
Philippines unilaterally without the consent of the counter party, China.
Those parties on the side of The Philippines are eagerly rubbing their
hands for a judgment in favour the latter, dreaming that it would favour
their attempts to make claims in the South China Sea against China. The
provocateur or mastermind behind this theatre of course will be smiling in
glee at the puppets fighting among themselves without a clue of what are
in store for them. Have no doubt that the puppets could only see as far
as their nose, and would end up being slapped by the same insidious act they
supported blindly or for short term interests.

The Asean states wanted and are praying very hard that their wishes would
be granted. Let me remind them that before their wishes come true, they
better reflect on the implications of the farcical decision or the
political statement that The Hague is going to make. The case violates many good
principles of law and order governing international relations. In this case
there is an international institution, a court that chose to preside over
a territorial dispute that it has no jurisdiction to hear. And they are
arrogant enough to want to make a judgment despite objections by the
affected party and without hearing its side of the story, ie in
abstentia. This is not about a criminal case or a dispute between citizens
of a country where the court has the legal right to sit and hear the case
and the citizens have no grounds to object. This is an international court
and the parties are sovereign nations that owe no obligation to the court
and could choose to tell the court to lump it. The decision or judgment
thus has no legal standing and is not binding to the party that chose not
to oblige.

How would a decision by The Hague be important to the Asean countries and
other countries of the world? Many countries, including those within Asean,
have territorial disputes with their neighbours. Take the case of the
Philippines and Malaysia as an example. If Malaysia were to take the
position that China must abide by the 'judgment' made by the Permanent
Court of Arbitration, would Malaysia also do so should the Philippines,
with the support of the same mastermind, filed a case to claim Sabah
despite Malaysia's objection and refusal to participate should the Hague
ruled that Sabah belonged to the Philippines? This can also apply to
Singapore Malaysia relations when the latter is still harbouring the idea
that Singapore belonged to Malaysia. Likewise, Malaysia could unilaterally,
with the support of the same mastermind, if it behaves well and to the
liking of the mastermind, filed a case to take over the four Muslim southern
states of Thailand. Would Singapore or Thailand abide by the rulings of the
Hague in its decisions when they refused to participate in the hearing and
refused to make their defence?

The Koreans also have island dispute with Japan. China and Russia also have
similar disputes with Japan and so are many other countries. Would any of
these countries fall victims of a similar scam when they offended the
mastermind and have the international court making judgment against their
territories and would they accept the farcical decision?

The Hague decision is going make a very dangerous precedent that would
affect many countries around the world. A big power could connive and bribe
or coerce an international court to judge against any country with or
without their objection or without their participation. Is this what Asean
countries and the world at large think is a good thing, a good way of solving inter state territorial disputes?

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

"The Hague decision is going make a very dangerous precedent that would affect many countries around the world. A big power could connive and bribe or coerce an international court to judge against any country with or without their objection or without their participation. Is this what Asean countries and the world at large think is a good thing, a good way of solving inter state territorial disputes?"
RB

I thought China already said it does not recognise the Hague decision? So what so dangerous? And with that, what can the Pinoys do? Go to war with China with USA help? You think there will be such a war for this, just as you think the Sinkie opposition can be ready to be govt?

It is only dangerous to a party when it has no power, eg an opposition party. The ruling party can use their law and courts to suka suka fix the opposition, tio bo?

Anonymous said...

I like RB said if some day Malaysia go to Hague to claim Singapore and Philippines claim Sabah.

Then both Singapore and Sabah can have referendum if to stay in Malaysia or w pinoys. Its like Scotland, can always join UK or leave UK with referendum. How nice.

That is not possible. I think Hague has no such power to rule an inhabited island like sg belongs to another country. The world will be in Hague s wishes, ang mor world liao. Not possible because Russians and China have nuclear weapons. Ang mor will also became ash if they go too far to push for nuclear war.

How to settle the reefs. Its nothing now. Its just a divided world. Nothing will be changed. China and US have secured some countries support on Hague judgement.
UK said China MUST follow Hague s judgement. That is US stand.

Will China follow the UKUS instructions?
Russia FM said those reefs must be negotiated between related countries, outside countries please stay out: tell US to f-off.

So China has Russia to support. It is so clear cut.

Then Philippines can do much?
Asean like sg, indon, malaysla, are supporters of US s leadership. Only Cambodia has declared: Hun sen PM said, he will not sign any support in Asean s name to support Hague court ruling.

So Asean is actually a broken organization. No power to issue statement on Hague court ruling for all 10 nations.

If China is so convicted on its own stand,
1) it should de- associate with the UN Ocean Laws. Because the West is using this set of laws to divide legitimate countries territories.

2) China should also declare Hague is a kangaroo court manipulated by the west and never recognize its judgement from the pinoys case onward.

If China just talk it ignore the one single ruling raised by pinoys, then China is a manipulator similar to US.

Judgement favorable to China, it recognize the Uclos and Hague, judgement not favorable to China, it ignores the judgement.
This kind of behavior is unacceptable to other countries.

China better be more responsible: give up the islands or totally de associate with Uclos and Hague.

Declare Unclos+Hague illegal in China: the chinese people will have no more issue to follow up on whatever appeals Pinoys will raise after July 12.

Anonymous said...

If China is so convicted on its own stand,
1) it should de- associate with the UN Ocean Laws. Because the West is using this set of laws to divide legitimate countries territories.
2) China should also declare Hague is a kangaroo court manipulated by the west and never recognize its judgement from the pinoys case onward.
Anon 11:37 am

Aiyo, if China said don't recognise can already settle the matter, why make it so troublesome?

And I agree with you that Asean is actually a broken organization. Meaning cannot do anything of substance for member countries. Maybe just like a get together function with makan for ASEAN Heads of govt.


Anonymous said...

It depends how intelligent are China leaders.

If China keeps the Hague court as reference and is also a member of the Uclos, then China is seen as NOT following the legal experts advise on international legal interpretation on issues relating to Ocean laws.

I will find China flip flop if it still stick to the Unclos while the West use "legal experts" to twist the laws. To other countries, China will be wrong if it signed for Unclos and DO NOT recognize the legal interpretations of Unclos.

China will be in shit again if another country like Vietnam raise the same issues on Fiecy Cross Reef, china called yongchu dao. On yongchu dao there is airport built on it and military plane had landed on it to transport a sick worker.

I can bet Vietnam will be encourage by US to apply to Hague to seek YongChu dao after Pinoys are given the Huangyen dao or the Scarborough Shoal near Pilippines.

China will have endless cases it "does not recognize" raise by Vietnam, pinoys, malaysia, indonesia. Better wait for them to surface then start diplomatic talks again. How many countries will entertain China, if it is just a stupid fool?

China politicians should learn how to cut it clean if it wants to keep the islands protected by PLA by China laws. If not, PLA will have war eventually. Again no balls to do so simple logic?

Anonymous said...

If China just talk it ignore the one single ruling raised by pinoys, then China is a manipulator similar to US.

Judgement favorable to China, it recognize the Uclos and Hague, judgement not favorable to China, it ignores the judgement.
This kind of behavior is unacceptable to other countries.

China better be more responsible: give up the islands or totally de associate with Uclos and Hague.

Declare Unclos+Hague illegal in China: the chinese people will have no more issue to follow up on whatever appeals Pinoys will raise after July 12.

July 03, 2016 11:37 am

You talked like a silly twit. The issue is that Hague has no authority over territorial issues. You can understand this simple point or not? If not ask your mother to send you for more tuition to learn how to read English.

Anonymous said...

"If not, PLA will have war eventually."
Anon 12:43 pm

Not really lah. The PLA is using their ancient military strategist Sun Tze's strategy: "Know yourself, know your enemies, 100 battles, 100 victories."

Because war is a lose lose strategy for all, more so with a country like China. You think the Vietnamese, Pinoys, Matlanders, or even the Yankees want war with China? You think China is like Iraq, Libya or Syria? Even the Yankees dare not go to war with North Korea, let alone with China.

Anonymous said...

This is a court of arbitration and i think it is non bidding.
UNCLOS can only apply to certain areas.

The most important thing for pinoy case for court case is to determine whether those reefs are islands or not. If they are reefs, rocks, submerged features or whatever, pinoy 200km EEZ under UNCLOS will include them. If not this will be considered "island" which will have other implications such as sovereignty 12NM.

China is disputing all the UNCLOS guidelines in this case as all the disputed features or whatever as it is under 9 dash line which is China's territory.

So should UNCLOS which both disputing countries which are signatory countries apply here?

Some of the disputed "feature" is under water during high tide. So if under UNCLOS, this is 100% non island.

Another problem is if UNCLOS is accepted as the guiding principle in pinoy case, that will mean 9 dash line will not be recognized which will have serious future implications with all claimant state. What China wants is to get the world to accept this 9 dash line.

In any case, China did not participate and has said that it will not recognize any verdict so also no point to talk about precedents.

I think China is in a lose lose situation in this case in todays times, 30 yrs ago it really did not matter.
This is a technical case. It is like building a modern plane, talk no use one, you need to get serious people to do things step by step -starting from conceptual/detail design to final assembly,testing, flying.

Anonymous said...

Really?

UNCLOS ruling affects only members. When the ruling is unacceptable to China, China could just quit UNCLOS and nothing UNCLOS can do to China.

The USA is not a member and is getting along very fine. China can also quit as a member and go on with life.

The basis for UNCLOS is that it must be fair and acceptable to its members. Any member can quit if they find that UNCLOS is no longer respectable and crebible. It is a voluntary organisation. The members chose to be in or out, to abide by its rules or not.

Anonymous said...

This is where a lot of people is used to Sinkie land STANDARD contract terms and conditions.

I read somewhere that China could have included certain exclusions that adds as a addendum to the terms and conditions. Every country is unique and has its own needs. In china case, i think it has specified that China will not abide UNCLOS if it is a territorial issue (if i am not wrong).

ie. why sometimes it takes a long time to reach agreement and a lot of negotiations/clarifications for certain countries as every countries are not the same.

The world is not fair and will never be fair. If you want fairness, one should migrate to paradise or Hell.

Also it does not mean that if you are not member of UNCLOS, you do not follow the law. You are still bound by it.

Anonymous said...

Why is it so difficult for people to read simple English? Article 298 is specific, simple and clear. And it is an UNCLOS article. No need to beat around the bush and claim ignorant, don't know how to read, don't understand or cannot understand when it is written in simple English.

It is not China's special term. The exemptions apply to every UNCLOS member.

Understood?

Anonymous said...

Dont bluff people here lah.

Where got standard terms one? Are you saying China is stupid and insult our RB intelligence here who is providing articles and articles to justify China's action.

RB will say you must be a banana who wants to be a slave for another 1000 years.

You mean china got no talent but clowns and blindly sign anything on paper. Got gold to dig?

Anonymous said...

How amazing.

The Dutch is among the Europeans colonizing and trading slaves around the world and yet they have no shame whatsoever of housing the so-called "international" court.

No surprise here.

The word 'international' should be substituted to 'whatever benefits The West' LoL

Anonymous said...

Sometimes better check facts 1st.

this is from Wiki

During the Shang dynasty, about 5% of the population was put into slavery.[4] During the Qin dynasty, male slaves were forced to labor on projects like the Terracotta Army. Some slaves were those who had been convicted of crimes such as rape and were castrated and enslaved as a result.[5][6] Emperor Wang Mang banned slavery, but this was repealed after his death.[7][8] During the Tang Dynasty, there was a shortage of women, which resulted in trade with Koreans for women. During the Ming dynasty, slavery was banned; however, in practice, slavery continued through the Ming dynasty.[9] The Qing dynasty initially saw an increase of slavery in China, though there were measures against slavery.

At least the Angmo captured foreign slave while our own skin color can only bully their own skin color type. Or i am wrong which i will be glad to be proven wrong.

Anonymous said...

You are not wrong. You are lucky they never catch you to be a slave in the gold mines or the railroads. Maybe your great great grand uncle was one of them.

Did RB said stupidity has no cure?

Anonymous said...

Maybe you are right, but yours could be killed/tortured with no grave and worse, you all of mixed breed of no clan records.

Correct, stupidity has no cure, but no brains will be entitled to no truth and thus slavery for eternity.

Why deny facts as above? Denying facts such as fearful to go to courts which in turn now become a mess and then now pulled by the nose by a banana country which will be followed by other countries once precedent is set. Learn... Learn ....Learn... Wasnt you told to study hard? or forget on the subject history or you really think you can create history?

Now who is the stupid one...?

Anonymous said...

Now stupid one, when are you going to ask your ancestor Adam why so stupid got conned by a woman to eat the forbidden fruit? If he had not eaten, then there will be no stupid one like you crying about emperors and slaves everyday.

Anonymous said...

Really really stupid one here....

At least he eat the forbidden fruit to let me have a chance to teach you what is history. I mean for you he must have eaten a rotten fruit to let you destined to be a slave and still think you can teach people on what is slavery? Get it? Oh God is fair....

Anonymous said...

Even if Hague had judged in favor of China, the outcome should be against china because they know china will be firm. The judgment, though in their favor, must be over turned. This is to say,we are united so though you win, you don't try to be funny ok
What do you think?