6/26/2012

City Harvest Pastor Kong and 5 arrested for CBT


Five members of City Harvest Church (CHC), including its founder Pastor Kong Hee, have been arrested early this morning for alleged criminal breach of trust and falsification of accounts of the church.

The other four arrested were John Tan Yee Peng, Lam Leng Ham, Chew Eng Ham and Sharon Tan. It was also reported that 3 other board members of the church, including Ho Yeow Sun have been suspended from duties.

The five will be charged tomorrow. This seems to be an endless list of cases involving prominent people and celebrities in the island. City Harvest is probably one of the most successful new church in the island and the news is going to be shocking.

125 comments:

Anonymous said...

Yes shocking for the sheep and dafts.Sinkies had been living under the rock far too long.ST painted it all nice and dandy.I wished the rest of the populations have half of hougang spirits?

Anonymous said...

Aiyo, then don't read ST lor. Read social media for all your news needs, it's free anyway. And dont forget to read comments and forum. All our friends are there.

Anonymous said...

This is no difference from Sunshine Empire or leaders of countries alleged in corrupt practices.

All they need to have is create a platform, leveraging on the trust and power granted to maximise the outcome for themselves.

This practice is commonly found in charitable organisations, private or listed companies and countries (developed or developing).

Anonymous said...

The church is supposedly built on solid promises - the word of their infallible God.

But alas, look what happened?

All the evidences are pointing to a very grave error

Anonymous said...

God is great.

Anonymous said...

The irony is that they are still clueless who this God is, despite thousands of years of spiritual history.

Matilah_Singapura said...

Yyyeeeeessss!

Thank you Jesus! :-))

Anonymous said...

Funny the similarities between this case and the NKF. A whistle blower was sued and had to apologise in the papers. Now the whistle blower is vindicated and the guilties are going to face the music in court.

Anonymous said...

I am not at all surprised that it has come to this. All the speculation of wrongdoings earlier on and the massive funds involved, could only mean that the truth is going to hurt lots of people.

But whatever lah. the shepherd has again mislead his flock and the reality must be that two years of CAD investigation cannot be wrong in coming this conclusion. But expect the sheeps to continue to act in denial, as all sheeps do.

By the way, I do understand that the CHC do have many VIPs among it congregation. Ask them for help man! Maybe God can do something now.

Anonymous said...

They fell prey to the false prophet as mentioned in the bible. Instead of worshiping God, they worshiped Idols who used their money for their own gains in plastic surgery, fashion and singing.

Anonymous said...

Ming Yi was jailed for 10 months for misuse of funds and forgery....and the amount involved paled in comparison and the deceit far less complex and sinister than KH?

I should think the crime should costs KH his head on the guillotine?

Anonymous said...

When the head of the biggest church in Sin got chopped, you better take it as a sign that the entire body is.....sick, very sick?

Anonymous said...

From grace to disgrace. Grace is a disgrace.

Anonymous said...

HOLY SHIT !

Anonymous said...

Faithfull to hypnosis 101, and how to use cardiovascular beats to increase suggestibility, the service opened with the usual Karaoke. A constipated worship leader (It is not nice to say this but I cannot get around the thought that this probably very nice person, and definitely a gifted musician, has bowel problems). Same songs return every week: "Author and Savior" and I caught myself tapping my foot to the beat. Very catchy indeed.

The karaoke lasted for about 30 minutes, with the occassional Tongue speaking, then Pastor entered the arena to take it to the next level. 

"Let's not allow anything to stand in your way", "Open your mind", "Open your mind for Jesus", "Let everything fall aside", "Open your mind for Jesus", "Shiri ala bala chiriala", "Open your mouth", "Let Jesus come into this place", "Wonderful things are going to happen to us today", "God is gonna come and speak to us today", "Open your mind", ""Shiri ala bala chiriala",......"Let's give the Lord a big hand for his presence."

He sounded very much like one of those S$2.50 hypnosis tapes you can by at your friendly buddhist nieghborhood store.

At this point, everybody is standing up, eyes closed, hands towards the invisible Jesus, all speaking in tongues.

"God will touch us in a very special way", "Turn to your neighbor and say:"Jesus loves you, and I love you".  I took my own advice, and made sure I sat next to a good-looking worshipper. Kinda nice to look her straight in the eye while saying with a soft voice "I love you". It paid off as I took her for a drink and dinner after the show of which I will not report. ;)

Anonymous said...

Following the style of PAP,

may I ask this question

"You want kong hee to work for free ? Do you have a sense of proportion ? "

Anonymous said...

Isn't these people learn from PAP on how to do business the PAP way ? So why the govt backtrack ? We live in SinCity, don't we ? PAP does not find themselve sinful but find others sinful ?

Anonymous said...

Church funds diverted to advance the career of the founder pastor's wife while she gets to keep her income while the flock continue with regular donations to accrue prosperity, according to their Gospel? All boils down to showmanship with lots of smoke and mirrors.
Our SWFs have a lot more money but nobody can check their books and the sheep continue with monthly contributions. Somebody prove to me that our CPF is not the biggest Ponzi ever?

Anonymous said...

He twittered after emerging from the police station.....tough day...I trust in you, lord Jesus....thy kingdom come , thy will be done - such devotion,sacrifice or deluded arrogance

His Jesus must have a very very high tolerance for cheaters and liars and mind you....highly deluded ones too. His Jesus must also be culpable and the master mind behind the abuse of church funds since he is the pastor and the conduit of god.

Well, thy kingdom( which is political) has come. And the political will shall be done or shall fall on them .. and many like them who are not charged.

Anonymous said...

Scripture says . . . Matthew 24:24-26
"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."
Lord Jesus is coming back soon.

Anonymous said...

Erm...he is not coming back in the way expected of him by the waiting church or highly deluded church( as a collective religious body - all partners in crime).

You are wasting time, money and your sanity if you listen to them - not just CHC

Anonymous said...

Sorry,Kong Hee is Kong Hee,Lord Jesus is Lord Jesus.
Jesus is coming back as he predicted in The Book of Revelation,in form of parable.The time is near.

Anonymous said...

This case is only the tip of the iceberg. Given the fact that there are hundreds of local churches with thousands of screwed up heads running these divided organization ....big time and small time churches --- the abuse of funds can only be a matter of fact..

If Chee SJ can be criminalized for misappropriating small change, can you imagine the size of the crime, and shame, that can be uncovered in these churches?

I think the stupid sheep will have a cardiovascular attack if we dig up all the dirt in these churches.

Anonymous said...

Charismatic Evengilatical preaching ,I remembered when in New York in 1980s,we're televised every Sunday morning or they called it electronic church.It had huge following and donations were huge and the opportunity for fraud is equally huge..The famous case I knew is Jimmy Baker and I believe if I remembered rightly,he came to Singapore some years back and held a congregation at the Indoor Stadium
While I respect the followers freedom to worship and believe,the huge amount of money received is not in God's hand but in the Pastor's hands.that worry me.
Believers and worshippers are ripped off in the name of Christ.Why do such thing happened in Singapore when someone was blowing his whistle some ten years ago.
I can only point my finger to the PAP government and the state-controlled media,whose preoccupation was not to arouse religious controversy.Of course this is accomplished for the PAP benefit all these years,rather than allowing gradual freedom of expression of various religious beliefs. Suppresion of this freedom of religious and political beliefs have led to ethnic cleansing in Jugoslavia after Dictator Marshal Tito passed away.

Anonymous said...

This is a bad news for a good pastor.
Remember that Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver, and Kong also betrayed.
No matter what , do not affect the belief in Lord Jesus.It s the relationship with God that you believe and trust on ... not the Pastor.

Anonymous said...

What is $23m? This is small change for those who took more than this in months or a year.

They have only 33,000 contributors to the fund. Some funds have millions of contributors.

This is nothing really.

Anonymous said...

CPF Statistics
(As at 31 March 2012)
Total Number of CPF Members- 3.39 million
Total Number of Active CPF Members- 1.75 million

Anonymous said...

Time to sue the churches and hope the government doesn't stand in the way for fear of repercussion.

Perhaps, they need to educate of the public on religious fraud and their rights first.

Anonymous said...

Where money is concern, we will surely find dirt on most pastors.

We need to permit blind faith and practice one eye close to prevent our system from collapsing.

It other words, support corruption

Anonymous said...

This totally made my day, about time that charlatan,KH, was made to account for his crimes. Using religion for gain... Yet it goes undetected for years. Worst is that people still believe this con artist with such vigor & hype, makes it both sad & funny at the same time.

Anonymous said...

With 33,000 followers each contributing $400 per month, CHC or KH receives $13,000,000 or $130,000,000 per year. Hey, its better than most businesses. This amount does not include additional collections from weeklydonations and others.

I think it is no more just a church, it is a business with members joining not becuause of Jesus but a good opportunity to increase their sales. People like Insurance Agents, Property Agents, Lawyers, Movie Directors etc will have an instant market.

KH has been pushed to cult like figure and his power is total. No body will dare to question the account. Sound familiar?

Anonymous said...

Thy will be done on religious crooks. Do the time if you do the crime. They have been a license liars and cheats for centuries. Time to revoke the license and hold them accountable for all the saliva they spit on the pulpit.

Anonymous said...

Jesus this Jesus that...do it for god but when things got ugly and leaders found wanton...they excused their blind faith and put the blame on false prophets

Hey, ALL are false lah. Ask the "true prophets" to pray and call out to their god and I will wage against ANYONE who DARE say this God of theirs will show up

No God and hence...ALL ARE FRAUDSTERS who involve in Christianity lah

Anonymous said...

City Harvest Church is just a big scam job. plain and simple. the not so simple is how can so many fall for such an obvious scam? Matilah, please, don't just give us only 4 words for this topic.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Can caveat emptor be applied in this case? Willing buyer willing seller? No one force anyone to believe or to give.

Conditional that underage should be protected by the law and be accompanied by parents. Rated PG.

Anonymous said...

What caveat emptor? The state is quardian of people's morals and well being. When cheaters and liars are allowed to operate, the state has failed their duty towards humanity and the people

They can thus be accused of collaborating with religious crooks ok

Anonymous said...

Think Lehman bonds and toxic notes and stock market. Caveat emptor! Geylang, caveat emptor too.

Anonymous said...

Complex financial fraud, no or shouldn't be caveat emptor lah....geyland...where got cheat there. all know is get fuk there

Anonymous said...

Is gambling caveat emptor..yes. You go in open eyes...you know odds against you so take full responsibility but...religious crooks are openly manipulating minds and emotions of vulnerable people...how can we let this pass...you got conscience or not?

Anonymous said...

There is simply too much money involve in religion to let it go under the radar lah.

Hey, many of these poor folks need to be protected because their life savings can just go up in smoke by the mention of...JESUS

If that happens, who takes care of them? Govt?

Anonymous said...

I am only interested to know how to get my friend out of CHC as she is too young and may be misguided one day.

Anonymous said...

The bloody church will not return donated monies lah. Eat already, where got spit it out one. You die your business but they will still offer you bread and water. To keep you alive hopefully luck comes to your aid...that, they do it literally as what bible instructed (ha) but you wait long long they will return you the flat sold for god ok

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

We have laws to protect children from sex and the sex trades. Can we have laws to protect children from religious fear and pressure?

Anonymous said...

Adults need protection too. Many children can think better and have better values than many adults, unfortunately.

Anonymous said...

Adults are where the money is. The young and the children are the best to condition and the easiest to recruit. The monetary rewards will come after they join the work force.

These two groups of idiots will always be a thorn in the flesh for society and the world at large.

Anonymous said...

please, no more laws. there is only 2 laws of harrygrubby: wolffles law and non-woffles law. miw, family & crony and ft's fall under the former. the rest under the latter.

Anonymous said...

An interesting alternative view point.
http://newnation.sg/2012/06/reader-forgives-government-for-maligning-chc/

Anonymous said...

Religion, at the end of the day, exact more evil than the purported good they bring to society.

Their values and they cannot be trusted. Indeed,a brood of vipers.

Anonymous said...

Congratulations to CPIB n Kong Hee to the Bogus KH Gang of 5 or more.

I wish them every success in their upcoming new mansion in Changi.

Fast n pray all u want for in the end the LAW prevails.

Matilah_Singapura said...

@anon 1239:

>> "God will touch us in a very special way" <

...said the Catholic priest to the little boy ;-)

Jesus Is Coming...

Anonymous said...

Whatever,whoever,I am only interested and concern about HYS.She got special big bungalow in States.

Anonymous said...

GIC and Temasek should donate a few billions to City Harvest and wait to harvest 30 times or 50 times in return. No need to waste money employing supertalents and pay supertalented salaries but with no guarantees of returns, may even lose their pants.

Matilah_Singapura said...

Song about kiiling her guy. Seriously?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GgxsfODXrI

Wah, like Lady Gaga...excellent production!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFh9Su_SiM4&feature=related

Damn, she can sure shake it up...Hawt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ya3Hqu_-cg

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The sum of money alleged to be misappropriated is now $50m.

A sinner saved by grace alone said...

"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." - Matthew 6:24

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things..." - Acts 17:24,25

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy... lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God." - 2 Timothy 3:1-4

A sinner saved by grace alone said...

Anonymous (one of the many here) says, "Religion, at the end of the day, exact more evil than the purported good they bring to society."

On the contrary, the Holy Bible does not tell us that a man is "good". If anything, God tells us "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

And this is what God tells us His feelings about man that He created, "And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" - Daniel 4:35

"REPENT OR PERISH!" saith the Lord Jesus Christ

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi sinner saved by grace, welcome to the blog.

God tried to drown everyone but still made the mistake with that man who slept naked. And we have man alive to day awaiting God to do it right one more time.

patriot said...

True and sincere believers need not believe in any other man nor pray in any certain place. All they need to do is to be kind and fair to others.

For one to be superstitious and subject oneself to submit to another man, one must be very unsure of him/herself. True believer need no sermon nor fear any supernatural, a true believer will face the naked truth all by him/herself.

THOSE WHO SEEK PARDON ARE GUILTY OF THEIR OWN HAUNTING. Those who seek heaven are not sure they deserve the destination.

patriot

Anonymous said...

well said, patriot

Anonymous said...

So far, the biggest joke and the greatest mockery of all things decent seems to be coming from the church.

The bigger the talker, the bigger the fucker.

Their grace is actually a disgrace.

Anonymous said...

Moral of the story: godly people are also the most godless in behavior.

Anonymous said...

Don't let a black sheep soil your feelings. For if you end is nigh, most will want to seek solace in God, even unbelievers.

sinner saved by grace alone said...

Peace be with you, Chua Chin Leng,

Firstly, God didn't "tried to drown everyone", He destroyed the whole of mankind (if you believe what is written in the Holy Bible) except for the eight souls He chose to demonstrate His mercy and grace, which by the way was pointing to "salvation by grace 100%".

Secondly, the God of the Holy Bible DOES NOT "make mistakes" at all. Everything that happens in the past, present and future is for His Holy purpose (again, if you believe what's written in the Holy Bible). He declares the following,

"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it."
- Isaiah 46:9-11

You see, nothing can happen outside of His purpose and will as you can read from the verses I have just shown you (again, if you believe the Holy Bible).

And what has happened at the City Harvest has been purposed and willed by God for His glory. How you may ask. That should He not show mercy and grace to the man who has sinned against Him, He will throw their souls in hell that He stands Holy in justice, for He is a just God.

Anonymous said...

errr...sinner saved by face alone....errr...you dare to put your money where your mouth is? ...let's wage....you can gather all your powderful man of god with you and we shall meet at hong lim park ... I shll invoke my god of reason and common sense and you shall invoke your god of the bible...the all powderful god of Abraham to elijah and to jesus and you pray to your god to smoke a tree at hong lim park and I pray to my god of reason to stop your powderful god from sending fire from heaven to smoke the tree and let's see whose god more the powderfool?

sinner saved by face...errr...I think your balls will shrink and you will hide in your mouse hole to save face and to spout scriptures better...true or not?

Matilah_Singapura said...

For those of you who don't already know, I am a blaspheming infidel.

The majority of people who profess to be Christians (or any other faith) are good people, only because -- I've observed -- most people are good.

Sure there are people who do bad things -- on purpose for a "short cut" to personal gain -- but thankfully, they are a minority.

Anyway, ideas should be put under scrutiny, and if they don't hold any water, they should be viciously attacked. Religion is such a set of ideas, and thus should be viciously attacked. So let's all band together, as HUMANS and attack:

1. GOD

2. JESUS

...because not only are they really bad ideas, but they are FICTION.

...and

3. The most famous book of bullshit ever created aka "The Greatest Story Ever Sold" -- the most popular source of BAD IDEAS for nearly 2000 years. Wipe your shitty arse with it!

Oh go on, cheer up. Have a laugh!

Matilah_Singapura said...

The eloquent, super-intelligent Christopher Hitchens.

Damn, I miss him.

Anonymous said...

sinner saved by face...don't run leh...got spine to take the challenge or not? Talk is no use...all can talk...if you going to interpret the bible literally...then...let's call out this god of yours in the bible and see whether this god of yours will back you out?

we can change venue if you like. How about the hospital of your choice? Since your god so powderful in the bible..you can ask him to heal any terminally ill person OF YOUR CHOICE but ON THE SPOT...like Jesus did.
how about it? Dare to put your money where your mouth is?

I tell you...Your god is not going to turn up....JUST LIKE YOU and your crap! lol

Anonymous said...

The prosecutors are going to skin these deluded monkeys alive.

Anonymous said...

Trust me, a lot of lost sheep will still come out in support of KH and his gang. Shows how really daft and naive some Singaporeans are. Not just religiously, but politically as well! Blind faith and nothing else.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The issue of religion can be discussed without being personal or provocative. Let's try to keep it that way.

As for sinner saved by grace, I also have to agree with him/her. Everything is preplanned by God. So please do not condemn Judas for betraying Jesus. It was planned. Judsas should be honoured to sit beside Jesus for given a role that people hate him.

And please do not condemn Kong Hee and his elders, it was planned that way. Everything has a purpose. What is $50m if it is for a good purpose?

Amen.

sinner saved by grace alone said...

anonymous, whose "god of reason" that you claim you have is merely a figment of your own imagination. Mind you, gone are the days of the old testament accounts of what happened will ever happen again before the very eyes of mankind. But make no mistake, you have seen and witness enough in your lifetime or your lifetime to come that there are wars, earthquakes, tsunamis and whatever disaster that befalls the man.

I witness and testify unto you that these do not happen outside of my Father's will and purpose. Yes, He demonstrates His wrath via such disasters because of unbelief in Him and His Son Jesus Christ.

And tell me, where was your "god of reason" when all these disaster was happening? Was "your god of reason" on holiday or taking a nap all this while with you? So, going down to Hong Lim doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever. Why? That's because "your god of reason" can't even stop wars, earthquakes and whatever my God sends.

Go pick a fight with some other gods. But make no mistake, should you die in this unbelief of who Christ is, there's an eternal fire that awaits you which "your god of reason" cannot even put out, that's because he will be standing next to you together in eternal death.

sinner saved by grace alone said...

to anonymous with the "god of reason",

you speak so boldly about having "balls" and all that brute bragging pride about what you really stand for and "challenging" people to appear at places to defy your inner ego.

what i cannot understand is, if your really have "balls" of steel, why do you not even dare use your real name in this blog? please, do tell......

Anonymous said...

Did God set the secular courts to go after Kong Hee? Or did God set Kong Hee to bring down the secular courts?

Anonymous said...

Wah! Some Kong Hee Disciples or
ex-disciples preaching here ah.
Save yourself for your god by stopping from giving sermons here.

To many, the holy books are no better than comics.

May You have a safe journey to your heaven.

Anonymous said...

gone were the days too superman leaped tall buildings, stopped flying bullets and wearing red underwear too.

how convenient hor sinner saved by holy cow?

fact is, none of the supernatural account in the bible can be verified just like comic book heroes.

but then, supernatural healing, among others, is still available upon request or is part of your salvation isn't it?

So the challenge still stands even if you cop out of the other challenges with your lame excuses even though you claim your god is the SAME yesterday, today and forever.

truth of the matter is...this god of yours is NEVER GONNA SHOW UP in any verifiable form or substance

just like comic book heroes lol

sinner saved by grace said...

anonymous of "god of reason", how convenient of you to put your superman, spiderman and your foolish imagination with the Holy Bible. Simply put, you're just in unbelief of what the Holy Bible tells you and according to the Bible, it's sufficient for God to condemn you to eternal death. After, it's unbelief that one is going to hell. I don't judge you but the very Word of God has already judged what you say.

As for showing up or not showing up at your battleground doesn't prove anything but that you're just hot air. To begin with, no one even challenged you to anything for you to react the way you did. You obviously hate the Truth, but that's your problem to deal with alone.

Btw, grow some real life "b...s" to handle comments that's posted on blogs, that's what they really are - to allow people to express their views without having to "challenge" anyone anything or start a war.

So, grow up!

Anonymous said...

Hey, we reasonable people ruled by FACTS don't go round making fallacious and out of this world CLAIMS and sell GOSPEL for monies in the form of tithes, offerings,"love gifts" and godly mechandise ok.

Since you belong to a BIG MOUTH RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION who ravishes in bragging every Sunday and any other day...then bloody put your money where your mouth is.....and show us the MONEY or evidents!

But as lame as always, you chicken out with your tail stuck between the crack of your fart hole lol

Enuff said unless you and your kind show some spine....we will write you off as...loonies

No wonder your kind are in trouble with THE LAW lol

Anonymous said...

grace my foot...simply no shame and conscience

David said...

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."

This is without any exceptions. So, our very own foot is in your mouth.

Anonymous said...

err...you sure you got that interpretation right?

more like your cult leader has successfully owned your mind

sinner said...

If the Lord Jesus Christ is my "cult leader", I'm in fine company. So, is Spider-man or Ironman your "cult leader"? O, I forgot, your god is called "reason", my apologies.

Anonymous said...

where is your "lord Jesus Christ"? ask your lord jesus what is your great great great great father name is and he is silence. Ask your cult leader how you look like he tells you you are bloody ugly.

Now you know what's real and what's not or not?

The only voice you hear orally is your cult leader. The voices in your head is a figment of your imagination.

You need to check into IMH lol

Anonymous said...

Where is the SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OR PROOF TO SHOW THAT GODS EXIST?

Anonymous said...

its a belief , dodo

sinner said...

Proof that God exist? That's very simple, take a look at yourself and you will know that God created a fool as He declares. Or how else will we all know what is a fool?

That's proof enough for me that He is indeed great and awesome in His creation. And there's only one purpose He creates a fool and not to mention, the wicked. That He may destroy them in His wrath for simply not believing in Him. And that's fine by me too.

Afterall, He does as He pleases as He declares. And that includes sending a soul to eternal death. For now, you're a perfect product of His creation of what a fool is.

Anonymous said...

Th most basic and fundamental condition expected of any claims of life or relationship with a living person or entity is that the person or entity must respond or indicates life or essence of life

You talk to a piece of wood or to a Barbie doll, you are not gonna get a living response and you know the wood or doll is void of life.

If you claim you have a living and loving relation with a man or woman, he or she must be able to reciprocate signs of life such as touch or audible communication etc.

Similarly, you claim it is possible to have a living and loving relationship with God but you can't produce evidence of even the most basic condition required in achieving such a relationship how can you then expect people to believe your god is alive?

Now if you tell us you have a living and loving relationship with your parents, it is believable because you can produce evidence of such a living relationship.

With God, not possible and hence, anyone tells you otherwise without providing concrete evidence must either be a .. loony or a first class idiot.

Anonymous said...

All church leaders are first class idiots and sheep like sinner are a close second class idiot? Hahaha

Anonymous said...

Such a relationship is not taught in the bible. Anyone who teaches that does not understand the bible. But unfortunately, many do and that accounts for the state of confusion and chaos in the religious movement as well as our world.

Anonymous said...

Christianity has become a religion for those who want to be rich in this life in monetary terms.

It was used to be richness in spirit.

sinner said...

When one is classified a "FOOL" according to the Holy Bible (as declared by God Himself), is basically one who has no knowledge of who the True God of the Bible is. It has nothing to do with the carnal relationship we have on earth, that's a given. Anyways, we are made of dust - aka flesh and blood. God of the Holy Bible is neither. He's eternal and more importantly, Spirit and a Holy Spirit at that.

One may be a able to read the words of the Holy Bible but Jesus clearly declared, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

And precisely, the words will be just words to the carnal man not born of the Holy Spirit. Knowing who God and Jesus Christ has nothing to do with the man but whether God has chosen him before the foundations of the world to reveal Himself to the creature made of dust.

And you think you really know the God of the Bible by just reading the Holy Bible with being born of His Spirit by His will? Well, good for you - that explains the "depth" of what true Christianity is all about. It's nothing to do with money or wealth! Those who get rich from using the name of God in vain will be held accountable on the Day of the Lord.

For God declared, "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." and Jesus even taught, "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

And you think you know Christianity? Ya, right!

Anonymous said...

Yah..Jesus is god and he is spirit.....no physical body and senses...when he talks...you need born again ears before you can hear hor

Anonymous said...

I wonder where all these sinners work...with their brains and logic....finish

worrisome is they're every where

sinner said...

"when he talks...you need born again ears before you can hear hor" - just another example of your ignorance and foolishness being demonstrated. And that's because you must have been hanging around people from the charismatic movement or maybe the CHC or one of those "churches" that's been siphoning your finance. Maybe that's why you're like a cat on a hot tin roof when Christianity is being mentioned.

Anonymous said...

Tell me...what your god said to you recently? go drink more fluid cause you are dehydrating in the brain?

Anonymous said...

The money were given to God to do God's work. Is it alright to cheat God of his money?

sinner said...

"The money were given to God to do God's work. Is it alright to cheat God of his money?" - Does God even need money to begin with? Afterall, He's the giver of life and everything else. And do I stand in defense for what the CHC members have been accused of or for the fact anyone who uses God's name to "make money"?

And where did I say in my replies that "God was talking to me personally" like some?

If anyone who's "dehydrating in the brain", it's clearly you. You are so hung up with the hate you have for Jesus Christ that you are not even reading what I am saying, let alone what the Bible says.

Better go drink some water yourself, your brain must be shriveled...

patriot said...

The make-up gods need nothing, gods are make-believe stuff of the fearful and superstitious.
Waste not your time on imaginery. The guilty, pious or not should and shall be punished.

If heaven(another make-believe) is where one covets, go fast and live in peace. Please do not come and quarrel with others, it is a sin to do so.

patriot

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The money were given to God to do God's work. Is it alright to cheat God of his money?

June 29, 2012 12:29 PM

Think about it, it is silly to ask that. The silly Christians are trapped in a dichotomy. They throw the name of god freely it becomes no right and wrong, anything goes and because their god has no mouth , or even care, to clarify which of the 30 000 denominations is the one listening him, the squabbling is unending.

And even if they distance themselves from the reality, the divisiveness in the body is enough to label all of them as idiots. And many are highly educated and successful idiots too.

sinner said...

"The silly Christians are trapped in a dichotomy." - there you go again, using the one same brush to paint anyone who calls themselves a christian, a Christian.

The Bible is explicit about who a true Christian is to who is a false christian. Yes, there's such a thing as a false christian and true Christian. Just like there's a difference between a goat and a sheep. Just because you hear the sound of a bleating animal, does it mean immediately it's a goat or a sheep? You will never know until you see it, right?

By that same token, it doesn't mean that some like CHC preaches the Gospel clearly makes them Christians. So, please stop pretending to know who is a Christian or even what is Christianity. You don't even have a single clue, judging from your comments.

Anonymous said...

The fundamental flaw in their doctrines is that they think they can form a human like relationship with this god and the result? Demonic voices come out of the body of Christ.

Stupid or not lah?

Anonymous said...

Wah...you strike the jackpot 100 comments...lol

Anonymous said...

Wth millions of Christians saying...god told me this god told me that...god showed me what the bible said here...and another claimed god showed me the bible said that...so who is to say KH is wrong and you are right?

Fucking christian idiots!

sinner said...

patriot, please feel free to join in this wonderful "quarrel", afterall you have already casted your stone by your own judgmental way. I am sure no one compelled nor forced you to be a part of this blog but you've "chosen" to add your comment to this "quarrel". And if you have done so, do not ask others to do what you yourself seemed unwilling to do by adding your comment in between this "quarrel".

It smells of hypocrisy, which simply means, you're a bloody hypocrite!

Anonymous said...

The fact that these Christians dont smell a rat in their backyard is simply incredible

Anonymous said...

Mind you, a bloody rotten rat

sinner said...

"so who is to say KH is wrong and you are right?"

Mind you, KH is not in the secular court to be prosecuted because he loves Jesus Christ or was he arrested for preaching the Lord Jesus Christ. And if KH is right in doing what he did because you say so, doesn't that even proof further that you're a lover of iniquities? A lover of someone who cheats?

For your information, Christianity is not on trial here. What's on trial is the government of Singapore has deemed it so that KH and his accomplices are being accused of breaking the COC law.

But you have chosen for yourself to put Jesus Christ on trial here. Good for you!

Anonymous said...

You bodoh...Christianity is on trial lah. In the first place...Christianity and secular govt are separate entities.

In Christianity, the followers pledge allegiance to "god", not to Caesars

If KH heard from God telling him to promote his wife in Hollywood, who are you and the govt to tell him what he did was wrong?

patriot said...

patriot shall end his comment with this one.
It is no fun talking to quarrelsome and conceited superstitious folk.

patriot

Anonymous said...

If god tells him to live in sentosa cove, who are you to say he abused church funds? Chey!

Anonymous said...

LOL

Anonymous said...

You under there stand or not? In Christianity...all you need to say is...god told me so...period

No arguments. Just obey

And millions think like that...tell me...what's the obvious outcome of such a scenerio? Hell lah lol

Anonymous said...

Christianity fucked up the bible..it is as simple as that.

Anonymous said...

Lolx

patriot got pissed off.

My sympathy.

Anonymous said...

Christianity is a stupid religion. Not the bible. The bible is a brilliant book! Lol

Anonymous said...

Christianity is a stupid religion. Not the bible. The bible is a brilliant book! Lol

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

It is a pity if this discussion turns into a quarrel. It would be better if both sides stick to presenting your views on what you think it should be rather than name calling.

I believe all the readers would appreciate clever and logical discussion.

Anonymous said...

LOL

Anonymous said...

You talk to stupid people...you gotta use stupider language...haaaaaa

Anonymous said...

Ok lah.respect uncle chua. Over and out

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

I prefer everyone to respect everyone else's view or position even if one does not agree. I know that at times we can see how ridiculous the other person's point is. But he/she has the right to believe what he/she chose to believe and you know why he/she do so.
We can quietly tell ourselves, wah like dat also can, like dat also got: )

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The bible said, Everything comes from the word. And the word is God. So all things are God, or comes from God, or a part of God.

Logical? We comes from the word. So we are also God or a part of God. God is spirit. We too have spirit in us. The kingdom of God is inside you. And who shall reside in the kingdom of God? Must be God right?

Amen

Anonymous said...

Mr Bean knows what he is talking.

Anonymous said...

Located near Statesville North Carolina in the town
of Hiddenite, which is named after the gem found at the mine.
This running water will in fact speed up your removal of the
water and with a simple flip of the valve can add water to the fish
tank. A large number of workers, particularly in the professional
occupations, will become eligible for retirement
in the coming years, and some companies may have trouble coping with the loss of many experienced
workers to retirement at a time when the industry is expanding production on dryer machine and
ball mill machines.

Here is my web site; mining

Anonymous said...

So there are many virtual airlines that you can choose from and be their management.
These originally were quartz crystals from the River Rhine
in a region noted for gem-cutting, particularly the town of Idar-Oberstein.
The latest version, Rollercoaster Tycoon 3, is produced by Atari
and can be purchased at most retail outlets.
Initially, it took a little while to go through the manuals and understand how it
works, but once that was done, it was a breeze. 3) Physical parameters: The simulators
are almost real, but actually they are on the ground, I mean around the sea level.



Here is my weblog :: simulator

Anonymous said...

With all due joys, this should be the period of utmost carefulness and conscious concentration
on the vital issues affecting the future the nation and due attention of not being stabbed from the back.
There were also interesting garden "flowers", made from tin cut into petal shapes, bolted together on
an aluminum rod, with bottle caps as the center. The
news that you as a reporter tend to report must be based
on fact. They also delight in the creativity provided by the activities.
Lap books are another tool a teacher can use to help students create booklets
that they will want to keep and review.

Also visit my web site: egyptian newspapers