10/06/2014

Hong Kong is never about Democracy




Historically, Hong Kong is never about Democracy. It is about a refuge, a haven for industrious people to engage in business and enterprise to live well. No politics.  Under the British rule for 150 years, the Hong Kong population was disinterested in the politics of the island colony as long as they were free to do business and look after themselves. The govt of the day could be corrupt or whatever, the people could be second class citizens, but as long as they were left alone, both could coexist under a system of non interference. So what if the Hong Kong people were subjects of the British Empire, bowed to the King and Queen of England? They would bow to anyone as long as they can have a good life. Hong Kong people are practical people, non political but economic animals, at least until the farcical democracy shafted down their throats by Patten, the last British governor of the island in its dying years.

When China took over Hong Kong, it wanted to let the Hong Kong people continue to do what they want, continue to prosper and live well. They thought this was good for the Hong Kong people and for China as long as Chinese sovereignty is recognised. China even pumped in money and resources to make it happen and Hong Kong is better and richer than before.

The recent Occupy Central has changed the political landscape. The Hong Kong people now want not only economic prosperity but independence from China. They do not regard themselves as Chinese, at least those at the demonstration and those supporting them from a distance, but as Hong Kongers. They want independence from China.

The economic animal has morphed into a political animal. This is inconceiveable and intolerable as far as Beijing is concerned. This is worse than the positions taken by Taiwan and Tibet. Both accepted that they were part of China and only demanded for autonomy. Are the students and their backers real in pushing for an independent Hong Kong? Remember what Chen Sui Bian and Lee Teng Hui tried and how closed they were to a war with China.

In the case of Hong Kong, there is no justification whatsoever to talk about independence. Are the Hong Kong people really wanting to trade their economic freedom and good life for this thing called Democracy and independence from China? Nothing is impossible, so they said. But in this case, this is Impossible.

Do the students and their supporters believe that they could hold China to a ransom with Western govts and media egging them on? How foolish! China would do another Tiananmen if they dared to push the independence boundary. Another Tiananmen Square would not be too many when the risk is a broken up China and a people that would be oppressed by foreigners, ridiculed by foreigners and becoming the Sick Man of Asia once again.

The stake is too high and Hong Kong is too insignificant to China’s game plan. Hong Kong can be sacrificed and China has many options other than Tiananmen to deal with the protesters. Youthful idealism is one thing, old wolves in sheep clothings must be sensible enough to know that this is not a game they can win, and the consequences are too severe and would go only one way. They have no cards to play. There is no end game. China would just switch off the power supply.

The Hong Kong people would not only lose their democracy, they would lose their economic freedom and good life. Hong Kong would be shut down and turn into a reservation for the Red Indians similar to those in the US. It will no longer be a haven for free wheeling enterprises, an economic marvel, a jewel of rich capitalism.

Businesses will collapse, property prices will collapse. People will want to flee the island when the doors are shut. What are the students and their behind the scene supporters fighting for? Political power and control? They have all the economic freedom that they want and many democratic rights that the mainlanders did not have. What more do they want? Poverty and ruins? Do they know what they are risking?

This is not about Hong Kong but about the well being of China and the Chinese people.

 Kopi Level - Red

38 comments:

Anonymous said...

Actually my jaws dropped when I realised the key protest leaders are teenagers, like one 17 year old!

Are they proxies of others who do not wish to reveal their identities? And for good reasons?

How could such protests succeed?

Given such scenario, I would think their chances of success are as good as the Sinkie opposition forming the next Sinkieland govt.

Anonymous said...

Omfg ... the americunt terrorists did it again, najib din give Obama a good blow.

Mud navy gunboat mia .... boh seow boh sit

Virgo 49 said...

Mr RB, in China Daily/Asia News Network, the article An Open Letter to HK protestors
by Mr Raymond W.Yin fully complement what you wrote.

Luckily5 nit that Asshole IB Sin Raymond

Veritas said...

Unfortunately I have to differ with RB diametrically. The HK protest is all about democracy and a last ditch effort for HK to salvage themselves.

HK people did not demand democracy but that does not mean they cannot demand it now. And given PRC policy of aligning with HK tycoon against the interest of middle class, the future of HK is a shit hole.

There is a real latent independence sentiment of HK against PRC, and one may ask why? Is it PRC rule more sucks than white man. From all evidence the answer is a big YES.

And HK is always a haven who take in PRC refugees who see their relatives raped and murdered during the commie purge, and this is one of the main reason to keep PRC away. If HK was not independent of PRC as a UK colony, ALL the elites will be shot and their women folks raped.

The right way forward is not using gangsterism against HK people, but more democracy and more humanity.

Anonymous said...

The atrocities committed by the communists against the corrupt rich were nothing compared to the genocide of red indians and all the conquered natives by the white men.

If you can forgive the white men, whom you believe can turn good, why can't you believe the commie Chinese can turn good? Do you think you have turned good and can turn good? Your DNA is as good or as stinko as the commie Chinese.

Stop being naive or stupid if I may call you. U think u are the only Chink that can turn good and other chinks cannot? How arrogant of you.

Veritas said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

"And given PRC policy of aligning with HK tycoon against the interest of middle class, the future of HK is a shit hole."
Veritas 12:11 pm

But there must be good reasons why PRC is doing it, and against the interest of middle class Hongkies.

And perhaps for the same reasons why PAP is aligning with foreign talents against the interest of middle and lower class Sinkies.

But in HK at least Hongkies got large scale protests, but in Sinkieland, why only got those Sinkie clowns heckling, u tell me lah?

Veritas said...

White man versus Red Indians casualties? Please show evidence. Today no mass grave....etc. Other than we know Incas and Aztec destroyed, but that is by Spanish.

Is White man dominate Australia and New zealand because of mass genocide also? There are some atrocities but is there mass genocide?

Similarly white man dominate Alaska? Has all Native Alaska got murdered byu white man? Or is it that the native themselves are too small in population.

Same thing in Canada.

No evidence of deep and intense conflict between Canadian and natives, though there is war, but nothing of the genocide nature.

We can believe commie China can be good if she reform herself and tell everyone mea culpa, just like Gemo Chiang family in Taiwan.

Today, commie leaders are fucking virgins and keeping 100 mistresses. Then they try to go after people who go seek justice. They rob land and prosper massively but arbitrating.

I still have hope with commie chinese and the HK style of voicing out is one of the antidote against CPC.

Veritas said...

But there must be good reasons why PRC is doing it, and against the interest of middle class Hongkies.

And perhaps for the same reasons why PAP is aligning with foreign talents against the interest of middle and lower class Sinkies.

But in HK at least Hongkies got large scale protests, but in Sinkieland, why only got those Sinkie clowns heckling, u tell me lah?


PRC has shown willingness to murder oversea Chinese. Go ask Vietnamese Chinese, Cambodian Chinese.

Cambodian Chinese were cut up by Pot supported by PRC. PRC cheers when Cambodian Chinese got murdered. When Vietnam invade Cambodia and put a stop to the murder of Chinese, PRC got angry. Then PRC attack Vietnam.

Anonymous said...

Why Lor Ngerng can only get some Sinkie Ah Peks and retires to HLP to heckle?

Why he cannot get tens of thousands of Sinkies to protest on the streets?

No wonder Mai Hum want to sue him.

Anonymous said...

It is sad that the writer sees everything things in such stark East-versus-West terms.

It is a movement against Beijing's direct rule, but it is not for independence from China. It is a movement for democracy, but it is not pro-Western. It is a movement against powerful economic interests, but it is not against economic freedom that has made so many billionaires. It is a movement for social economic justice and affordable living, which was more present in the past, gave people a shot at being rich and why Hong Kong seemed less politically interested.

Lest he forget, Occupy was a movement started in the West, protesting against the Western system. China will have to solve its problems at the end of the day, and the only way it can is to democratise and make politicians accountable. But that is another discussion.

Michael Heng PBM said...

Actually, Hong Kong already has Democracy written into the 1984 Sino-British Declaration and The Basic Law. They include "Universal Suffrage" or one-person-one-vote, and Direct Election of HK Chief Executives. These democratic rights and privileges are NOT enjoyed by the British of Americans! What the Protests are about is NOT Democracy. It is about IGNORANCE of HK's democratic framework. WRONG also to think that the noisy HK Protestors represent the SILENT Majority of HongKongers - they don't.




Veritas said...

Mickey is a disgrace to the academic field. Democracy inherently contains elements of chaos, while North Koreanism are sanitized.

To protest is a basic right granted even under the constitution of PRC.

Except that technically, PRC usurp their own constitution and it is up to PRC citizen to keep protesting and protesting so that authorities granted them back their rightful rights.

They include "Universal Suffrage" or one-person-one-vote, and Direct Election of HK Chief Executives. These democratic rights and privileges are NOT enjoyed by the British of Americans!

I do not understand what you mean by the above when you say British and American do not enjoy democratic rights.

The HK and even PRC constitution has quite democratic and the real people who mis-understood the framework is those who rant rant rant and never be bother to read.

And technically the elites will not give the rights to the people even though they are codified. The people need to fight for it.

Veritas said...

直至2008年,仍有相当数量的中国公民因言论被治罪,却得不到宪法言论自由条款(宪法第三十五条「中华人民共和国公民有言论、出版、集会、结社、游行、示威的自由」)的保护。有人士指,这部由执政党起草的,代表该党意志的宪法,[35]自颁布以来,除“党的领导”条款之外的所有条款从未被该执政党认真遵守过

There are reasons why I despise my teacher in NTU, even including the technical EECS professors.

The said...

Actually, we should blame the nefarious and perfidious Brits for this situation. For more than 150 years when the Brits administer a Hong Kong stolen by unequal treaty, there was not even an iota of democracy. Just before handing over HK back to China, Chris Patten decided to introduce democracy to HK. And that is after pilfering billions of dollars worth of contracts - the new airport, huge reclamation works for the airport and the HSBC Building (the most expensive office building then), to name a few.

Let's poison the well before leaving...

b said...

Those protestors are just being made use / manipulated by self serving people who wants to expand their empire at the expense of sacrificing the stability.

Veritas said...

You are wrong. China should thank UK for conquering HK. Without UK, HK today is a shit hole and China may still be a shit hole. HK is a window for China and a source of western technology and ideas even during the dark ages of Mao purges.

Critical scientific instruments and medicines are source from HK. Trades are routed through HK to bypass restrictions.

And when PRC open up, HK elites provide PRC ideas and capitals to speed ahead. Although I would say HK elites are pieces of shit and compradors or taipan or white man broker. Their influences are 50% very toxic. Just like nuclear factory produces toxic waste that need to be well manage but unfortunately, they are not.

How can people here have such a fucking scope?

b said...

With the brits, hk will be taken over by americans and turned into shit holes like latinos countries.

Anonymous said...

Shit hole veritas. You are not only the biggest, dirtiest and the most stinky shit hole but also someone who is nourished with white men's shit. Don't try to portray yourself as knowledgeable. What you are spouting out is just gegurgitating white men's shit which you have been fed and enjoying all your shitty life. Please don't sprinkle the internet blogs with your scurrilous shitty remarks anymore. Very soon you will be sent and confined to shitty white men's lunatic asylum.

Anonymous said...

Crawl back into your angmoh assholes... jerk

U wanna democracy... y dun u start one in front of istana? Moron

Anonymous said...

Yes. ... n the Holocaust is real



Moron.. goes lick your angmoh dicks

Anonymous said...

Veritas seems to claim he is a most enlightened being in my personal opinion. Had been reading him since he came here in My Singapore News.
Veritas clearly dislikes and hates Indian, Muslims and now PRC Chinese. He also claimed that he read more Chinese Classics and supposedly histories as well, if I may add. Another boast of Veritas is that he had travelled widely in all the different religious lands on Earth tgat included India, Middle-east and Elsewhere.

I like to tell Veritas that reading histories and travelling to different regiobs do not mean he knows politic and diplomatic well. For the Matter, it does not mean that he have the ability to give the World an ideal political system.

I had wished and waited for Vertas to come up with suggestion(s) or offers his ideal system for Singapore, as he is apparently very disappointed with the Rulers in Sin. Sad to say there was none.

Me too did not and does not offer any idea to better our situation, but there are differences in our understandings of our local situation. I am of the view that there are too many shitty policies which should not have been implemented and worse more are added on too frequently. Never did I ever feel the needs for more policies to better our system, BUT THERE IS URGENT NEED TO TAKE AWAY/OUT THE EXISTING BAD ONES SUCH AS POPULATION GROWTH AND GDP.

Just like to tell Veritas that living will be more meaningful if one is less hateful of too much things. Or, when ones ideal is practical and achievable.
Wholesomeness is ideals that are achievable not building castle in the air.

patriot

Veritas said...
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Veritas said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Veritas said...

Please mention also I fuck white man as well.

There is something very close to ideal situation, that is the Nordic system, the Switzerland system while bigger countries can look at Germany or to a lesser France.

The Germanic people has already shown the world how a state could be run. And Germanic economics is different from the Anglo Saxon one. Germanic economics is heavily influence by Marx.

I do not hate. I love people. I speak the truth.

I hate evilness. I hate ignorance. I see so many stupid commenters here. People read too little and they are shit. Then they attack me.

I want to improve the standards here. These cock talker here must realize they are talking to someone who read incredibly, though I do not think I am good compared to giants.

And there is a chap from NTU here who do not behave like an academic at all. Go all university other than those in SG, your teacher will teach you to fight for truth and to speak truth. Your teachers will ask you to go to the streets.

All university are place of courage intellects except cesspool of shit in SG, in NUS, in NTU. We can never have our Noam Chomsky. Our university teachers are selected base on how good their carry balls.

Veritas only like truth and when I see people BS, I will point out.

Anonymous said...

Onlee 2 words

Fuck spider

.... yes I m uncouth ,

Knnccb

Anonymous said...

Conceited n narcissistic.

Oso oni 2 words.

Michael Heng PBM said...

Well, One Thing we Know now that Veritas DID NOT KNow. That is, the British Prime Minister and the American President are NOT DIRECTLY elected by their respective people. The UK PM is chosen by his Political Party and has NEVER been presented to the British Electorate for Direct Elections. The US President is elected by the Electoral College and NOT by the American People. HK in 2017 WILL DIRECTLY elect its Chief Executive. That's why in 2017, HK Democracy would be MORE DEMOCRATIC and SUPERIOR than BOTH British or US Democracies. Direct Election of "Chief Executives" is NOT a democratic PRIVILEGE enjoyed by the British or the American.

Now, do you understand, my dear student?

Veritas said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Veritas said...

Mickey should stop writing to disgrace himself and NTU.

Anonymous said...

No need for the last word Veritas, you're a winner here already, these ignoramuses reminds one of a saying about it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Anonymous said...

狂妄自大,

無药可救也

Anonymous said...

redbean
Instead of framing the debate about Hong Kong as "East versus West" and etc.
Why not just frame it as a simple debate of transparency & accountability.

1. How transparent & accountable is the PRC government?
2. How transparent & accountable is the USA government?
3. How transparent & accountable is the PAP government?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

My point about Hongkong is primarily not to rock the boat and lead to a break up of China when other autonomous regions also think they can breakaway.

As for Hongkong, it is good to keep the spirit of democracy alive as China needs more democracy. But the Hongkies must not be too reckless to undermine China as a nation. That would be no go and Beijing will come down very hard and both China and Hongkong would be the main losers.

This framework has nothing to do with East vs West but the survival and dignity of a civilisation. China still has a lot of flaws to iron out. But it is making great progress in all fields and if no one breaks the party, it is going to be better for China and Hongkong.

Protest if they like but know how far they can go and never upset the apple cart.

Anonymous said...

Hi redbean (8.50am)
I fully agree with you on your posting. Thanks for your kind response.

Anonymous said...

Me completely concurs with Rb aka Mr Chua Chin Leng.

There is great wisdom in the Chinese Adage 牺牲小我以完成大我, meaning to make sacrifice for the Good of the Lot(Whole). The Hongkongers have to understand and acknowledge the Need for compromise.

香港的中国人必须要有牺牲小我完成大我的信念.


patriot

Anonymous said...

Knnccb

b said...

All protests in the name of democracy is never about democracy. It is all about power and building the empire of the self serving elites behind those protests.