8/12/2012

A national conversation for our common future




What is the point of having a national conversation for the sake of conversation, to give the impression that the govt is willing to listen, to engage the people, when all the decisions have already been made unilaterally by the govt? It has been like that all the time to the extent that a minister proudly claimed to be deaf and do what is right rather than listening to the lunatics.

If one is to read the Sunday Times today, the same attitude is printed in black and white, the govt has decided which way to go and that’s it. ‘Get married, have babies’ screamed the headline. ‘If we go on like that, this place will fold up because there will be no original citizens left to form the majority….So the choice is simple. Either accept migrants at a rate which we can assimilate them, and make them conform to our values….said LKY. He ended his speech with the following questions. ‘Do we want to replace ourselves? Or do we want to shrink and get older, and be replaced by migrants and work permit holders?’

Can a national conversation lead to a change of this migrant policies or a conversation that leads to nowhere if the people did not want to go along with the migrant policies? Can a national conversation lead to the govt returning the people’s saving in the CPF, or the lowering the public housing prices, or the lowering of the cost of govt?

The sad fact is that the policies in place are already replacing the Sinkies with migrants, and ‘If we go on like that, …there will be no original citizens left to form the majority.’ Isn’t this fear of being replaced by migrants the major concern of Sinkies and the source of their unhappiness?

And making babies is not so simple as the govt wants to put it. How many people can really afford to bring up two babies given the high cost of living, the shrinking of flat size and high cost of flats? Any citizen that goes forth and multiplies more than two is seriously undermining the social fabric of the nation unless they are able to afford them financially. If not, there are going to be many stray children running around, half educated, half fed, and poorly brought up, to roam the streets like unwanted cats and dogs. This would pose a bigger social political problem down the road when irresponsible citizens would reply that they were doing national service as told by the govt.

What do you think?

61 comments:

Anonymous said...

National conversation -how many time have PAP done this?They are too free and intent to waste the national time,whilst hoping to buying votes,of course.

Anonymous said...

The Opposition Parties have been carrying out a national conversation with Singaporeans for many years now.

40% of Singaporeans have already engaged the Opposition Parties in this national conversation.

40% of us need to convert our friends & relatives to join in this national conversation.

Anonymous said...

Just CPF issue is enough to talk 3 days 3 nights.

Matilah_Singapura said...

I think a conversation between 5 million people is impossible.

Better keep your citizenship (unless you need "your" CPF), and move somewhere else and treat Singapore as a HOTEL. That pisses off the government because you've sabo'ed their social engineering objectives. They also can't touch you. But you can still use Singapore as a lovely "tax haven" and massive leisure center.

In other words, once you change the nature of the relationship between you and your cuntry, you empower yourself more and reduce the amount of influence the motherfucking government has over you.

Fuck the government!

Majulah Sendiri!

agongkia said...

Tell those chia leow bee brain dead chobo tai chee to stop wayang lah.

Simply listen to me and let me marry many wives and I can produce as many as I want.

And uncle, you oso another joker.Whats wrong if I produce stray children running about,half educated ,half fed,and poorly brought up to roam the streets like unwanted dogs and cats?
Even if I or my children end as beggars ,its countless times better than bringing up 1 or 2 ungrateful children who only rob others using their papers and abusing their power.Some even chase their parent out.

Matilah_Singapura said...

A good place to start:

http://sammyboy.com/forumdisplay.php?5-Emigration-Matters

Anonymous said...

I like that.

Majulah Sendiri!
Fuck Off PAP!

Anonymous said...

New twist to old joke.

Q. How many Millionaires-In-White does it take to change a light bulb?

A. They are not changing the old light bulb. They are just trying to talk new life into the old light bulb.

Anonymous said...

Rules of National CONversation:

George Yeo, Feb 1994:

“Remember your place in society before you engage in political debate…
Debate cannot generate into a free-for-all, where no distinction is made between the senior and junior party…

You must make distinctions -
What is high, what is low, what is above, what is below,

and then within this, we can have a debate, we can have a discussion…
people should not take on those in authority as ‘equals”

Anonymous said...

Online, all are equal . There is no high and there is no low. Everyone can have a say and you are judged by what you say, not by your wealth, success, social status and connections or popularity.

Let the words of highfalutin hypocrites be tested on those grounds. If your words are good, it shall be respected.

Anonymous said...

A lot of sickaporeans bloggers do not permit anonymous comment or real nasty comments.

It says a lot about the vocal online bloggers who are predominantly 90.5 FM breed - hear only the good stuff.

RB is a rarity.

reddotsg said...

Want more babies? The first hurdle is the average $11k hospitalisation, that all families have to pay, just to have baby delivered, get rid of that and see if more Singkies have babies.

patriot said...

If the People in White are honestly and sincerely interested in engaging active citizens, all they need to do is visit TRE, Diary of a Singaporean Mind, TOC, MY SINGAPORE NEWS, Gintai, The Real Singapore, Temasek Review and many others. The Netizens will converse with them 24/7, are they game for it?

Anyway, of all people, Lee Kuan Yew should have kept his breath to live a little longer. He had lost all his rights to tell the Citizenry to procreate. Instead he should apologize to the People for his stupid and sinful 'Stop At Two' Policy.

Dare I say the oni motive for the People in White to call for reproduction of Singaporeans is to increase consumption to keep the GDP UP. That's about it.

patriot

Anonymous said...

Political Satire
----------------

A short video of how the National CONversation may be conducted?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0OtwfYahyg&feature=fvwrel

If you pay attention to the speech in the video, you may find that truly "history repeats itself"

Deja Vu all over again?

Anonymous said...

Why help this contry to breed hypocrites?

Anonymous said...

This is how something that starts out so good;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXXpMs3T3jA&feature=related

Can end very badly.
When we stop thinking.
And start believing blindly.

Gintai_昇泰 said...

Thks for the mention patriot. I say just give every couple $10,000 hard cash for every baby born. I mean real hard cash not income rebates or put inside CPF. Money talks. Rather than waste unnecessary money on other things. Give a try. Nop. They would take in instant citizens than grow our own. Short cut is always the easiest solution. That's the crux of the whole issue. Actually it's quite simple if only they change their stubborn mindset. Langgar!

Anonymous said...

Singaporeans are migrants. Do you think our forefathers all came at once with the vision to set-up a new country? They came in drips and drove to make a better life for themselves and the result is Singapore as it is today. If you accept that your grandfather may have come from China why refuse entry to the grandfather of your future generation?

Anonymous said...

So we decry about buying medals but when money goes into one's pocket, we(the beneficiaries) are all for it.

Want babies? Pay Up!

Anonymous said...

The curse of a barren land or the barren land is the curse? Hmmm....

Anonymous said...

Errrr....want less corruption? Pay up!

Veritas said...

Recently, liar LKY asked Singaporeans to get married and has children, on one hand--on the other hand, he created a system that making marriage and having children, financially as risky as playing russian roulette.

On all accounts, Singaporeans are conservative, family oriented compared to western woman. The dearth of babies is due to the wicked hands of LKY.

Its the PAP way the screwing us on one hand, and playing God on the others. And Kuan Yew often end such speach by say, since Singaporeans is so infertile, PAP is going FT to infinity.

Anonymous said...

"Singaporeans are migrants. Do you think our forefathers all came at once with the vision to set-up a new country? They came in drips and drove to make a better life for themselves and the result is Singapore as it is today. If you accept that your grandfather may have come from China why refuse entry to the grandfather of your future generation?"


CAN THIS BUGGER STOP GIVING COCK ?

Anonymous said...

CAN THIS BUGGER STOP GIVING COCK ?

Redbean, you know why i say he giving cock ?


Sin govt has been mass importing the foreigners that overwhelm the public infrastructure and housing, driving up price and rent, creating serious social issues and discomfort, and there is always a limit to which citizens can tolerate the overcapacity of foreigners, and here is a clown like PAP giving cock that "your grandfather and grandmother are migrant too" which is not even the issue we are highlighting.

If he is not talking cock then perhaps he is talking pussy.

What do you think ?

Anonymous said...

And now a word from the sponsors of 'Our National CONversation"
Gold 90.5 FM
- Only hear the good stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRR3gEHLH8M

Observe the fat kid dressed in white.
He's the newbie Prime Millionaire.

Anonymous said...

But you don't know wht th fella is talking cock yet you assume he is talking fock

Anonymous said...

And let's not forget our Women-In-White.

Here is something for you too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Wait9kJfY&feature=related

Anonymous said...

In the end it is still:

Conversing without listening.

Listening but not hearing.

So, what are we getting at? Another exercise in futility?

Anonymous said...

"Conversing without listening.

Listening but not hearing."

Hearing but still insist PAP's way the only way. (remember GDP is tied to their KPI)

Anonymous said...

National CONversation.
How to talk when you have censorship?

Singapore's Censorship song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON2_iucOlXk&feature=related

Anonymous said...

Who is not suspicious and sceptical of national conversation? You should be.

Anonymous said...

Sigh..... If this is the kind of cynicism more people like you are displaying, really what is the point ? Why don't you just simply leave this hopeless place called Singapore ? And bring with you all your followers ?

Anonymous said...

Singaporean citizens for sure will be replaced by migrants and not enough true blue Singapore citizens left to question where our National Reserves (Singapore taxpayer's money)
have gone.Sad to say,that is the 50 years hidden agenda.

patriot said...

Gintai:

$10k will be barely enough for diapers, baby milk, not to mention consultation during pregnancy, ward/delivery charges.
What about healthcare for the newborn and education as they grow up?
Even a 100k is not going to induce many to procreate.
Anyway, me maintains that population growth is meant for the economic growth and nothing else.
Anyone think that they care about the happiness of the parents, the children and anybody else???

patriot

Anonymous said...

Be careful what you tell the Millionaires-In-White.

They will take notes and close up all our lobangs.

Look what they did with our cheap Johor petrol lobang.
They introduced the 3/4 petrol tank rule.
Which benefited the oil companies in Singapore.

Anonymous said...

The idea of an inclusive society is "touching". Better still if you get talents to write song and create videos to move hearts.

Everyone loves a good cry or moved to donate and even paint some's house for free.

Once you walk out of the cinema, do remind yourself you just paid to watch a movie.

Anonymous said...

National CON-versation (Aug 2012 by Heng Swee Keat)
Versus
Remaking Singapore Committee (Feb 2002 by Vivian balakrishnan.

What's the difference?

http://www.tremeritus.com/2012/08/12/goh-chok-tong-urges-sporeans-to-contribute-their-views/

No need to talk again lah.
Just re-look at Bala's notes and report in 2002.

Since the last national conversation in 2002.
Look at the mess we are in.
Do you still want to talk to these people?
No enough shit meh?

Anonymous said...

"If this is the kind of cynicism more people like you are displaying, really what is the point ? "
ANON: August 12, 2012 3:08 PM

Exactly my point.
Forget about the verbal foreplay (National CON-versation).
Let's get to the part where you fuck us again.

What are you going to screw us for this time?
When will the screwing start?
How much is it going to cost us?

Anonymous said...

"Sigh..... If this is the kind of cynicism more people like you are displaying, really what is the point ? Why don't you just simply leave this hopeless place called Singapore ? And bring with you all your followers ?"

So why not start with you by bring your boolicking denial to your PAP site, and surely pinky and pap followers will praise you in his facebook. Redbean is the site for brutal truth not bootlicking clown like you.

Matilah_Singapura said...

Anti PAP Anons, please lah. This Site is open to everyone.

If you think a bit more carefully, you'd really want to know where your opponents are coming from, and how they arrive at their opinions.

The last thing you want is for your opponent to clam up and start plotting quietly without your knowledge, whilst you are revelling in your so-called "win" of a silly online argument.

Be cool. Be smart.

Just my 2cents.

Anonymous said...

Having a National Con-versation with the Pro Alien Politicians is just like the mating of two elephants;

All the action takes place at a very high level.
It's done with a lot of kicking and screaming.
And it takes 22 months to produce results (The National CONversation Report)

See video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt0iVB1LG7Q&feature=related

Historical Benchmark:
Remaking Singapore Committee.
Formed in Feb 2002.
Led by Dr Vivian Balakrishnan
With “about 100 people on the sub-committees”

Anonymous said...

Mr Chua,

Are these the vulgarities you hope to attract from your "what's the point ?" posting ?

Sigh......What is the point ?

Anonymous said...

Some people like to carry an Olympic torch into wooden shelters and when the flame of pride gets out of control and smoke the buildings....they don the fire brigade helmet heroically and rally the villagers to fight the fire.

The villagers are so accommodating and cooperative despite many of their babies have been smothered to death by the flames of progress.

Anonymous said...

amazing....

Anonymous said...

The only vulgar things here are;
the obscene salary,
the sense of entitlement,
the self-serving rationalization,
for a poorly done job.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The vulgarity is not encouraged for sure. We should try to keep this blog as decent as possible.

As to who posted the vulgarities, you just don't know.

I hope all bloggers should avoid to use vulgarities and if needed to, use is sparingly.

Thanks

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi reddotsg, welcome to the blog.

Cost of starting a family is high except for those who didn't care. agongkia has his views based on his personal experience and values.

In those days, my time, parents were ignorant and children were a hope, a lottery ticket for a better life. Neither was condom easily available. They live day to day. The children came one after another. The children lived off the land, finding anything to stave off their hunger pangs. We were just like the foreign workers, shooting any birds or wild cats and pengkang them on the spot to have a good makan, a bit of meat. We plucked wild fruits and stole by climbing over people's fences.

We only needed a multi purpose pair of shoes for the whole year or several years. The same pair to go to school, to play football or to go dating. And ventilation was provided when the toe opened up. Nanyang brand was good for everyone. The Bata badminton master with a green rubber strip on the sole was something to adore for.

Children growing up don't need much things. No need iphone, ipad, designer shoes, several pairs, $200 jeans, etc etc and no need to colour their hair.

The cost of bringing up children today cost a bomb to those who don't have the means. The stray children will be so badly deprived that they would suffer withdrawal symptoms and inferiority complexes. Some may resort to crimes to feed their deprivation.

Having too many children today is not the same as the past. It is irresponsible and unfair to the children. Unless both parents and children would not mine being cogs in the economy.

Anonymous said...

I thought we went through the "Fuck issue" before? Fuck, sex, intercourse, penis, vaginas, cunt, people, man, woman, fluid, condom, joy, death, scandal, civil servants, parents, police, nation, church,priest, pedophile, corruption, money, lies, affairs, homosexuality, penises, cunts, prostitutes, students, colleagues, parents, Fuck, Fuck, Fuck,vulgarities, pastors, sermons, semen etc etc aren't they all related? What's the big deal?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

This is a complex world. Some eat meat, some are vegetarian, some somtimes vegetarian sometimes not. They are the season veterans and there are also children, boys and girls. And there are the priests and there are the cowboys.

Anonymous said...

When you are arrogantly wrong and unjust to the point of fucking with innocent lives, and causing their eventual death or miseries, you deserve no less than scolding of the vilest kind and firing squad and then roasted in hell.

Anonymous said...

Anyone who tells me I have no right to vulgarities must also tell the priests they have no right to preach holiness.

Anonymous said...

When people are more bothered by vulgarities than with "church holiness", you know they are screwed?

That's very profound.

Can anyone in high office or well known and powerful make such a statement?

Anonymous said...

Nope. The people were screwed by the holiness.

Anonymous said...

no CPF no talk.

Anonymous said...

A disastrous minister becomes Singapore president. It must be a joke.

Who said: "FOOLISH ENOUGH to build MRT"?

On the one hand, we had President Ong Teng Cheong (then Minister of Communication):
"The MRT is much more than a transport investment, and must be viewed in its wider economic perspective. The boost it'll provide to long term investors' confidence, the multiplier effect and how MRT will lead to the enhancement of the intrinsic value of Singapore's real estate are spin-offs that cannot be ignored."
- 28 March 1982

"The MRT will usher in a new phase in Singapore's development and bring about a better life for all of us."


On the other hand, we had a "visionary" Minister who went out of his way to deliberately, publicly, and rudely slam President Ong - the chief advocate for the MRT system - as being "FOOLISH ENOUGH":

"The construction industry has become over-heated and if Singapore were to be foolish enough to want to build its proposed mass rapid transit (MRT)system now, it will find itself in trouble."
- Forum on economic affairs at NUS, 17 December 1981.


Question: So, who was this "visionary" Minister who was not as "foolish enough" as President Ong?


Answer: Who else, but (again!) that very same man who is now each day busily (passively) shaking the hands of fishmongers and saving fainting children (on camera), desperately hoping that such comical last-minute manoeuvres can help him to get $4,000,000 per year as our President.

Meet Tony Tan, the "not-foolish-enough" Minister for Trade and Industry in 1981.

Yes, this is the same Tony Tan whose forecast that Singapore had too many university graduates went wrong (again!), and whose forecast that pumping billions of dollars into failed western banks is good investment went wrong (again!)

Oh, by the way, when he made that wrong forecast on education, he was the Minister for Education.

When he made that wrong forecast on investment, he was in charge of GIC.

And yes, you guessed it, when he made that wrong forecast on the impact of MRT on the construction industry, he was the Minister for Trade and Industry!

Just what's wrong with this Minister? 他妈的,he made the wrong forecast in every ministry he headed and when he had finally done enough screwing up all these ministries, he went right into the "private" sector (i.e. GIC) and immediately proceeded to lose billions of dollars of our CPF money!

Is this the kind of President you want?

Not me.

I am not "foolish enough" to want to listen to any of his Presidential "visions"

More importantly, I am not "foolish enough" to vote him to let him scold me; note that President Ong Teng Cheong was then his colleague in the cabinet and yet, despite having already had the opportunity to counter Mr. Ong privately during cabinet meetings, he was not contented. No, not enough! He had to 'suan' his colleague publicly and make sure the "nation-building" newspaper reported on it!

So, do you think he will have any problem labelling you - an ordinary citizen - as "foolish enough", when he becomes the President.

His good friend LKY has already called you "daft". Not enough? You want to be called "foolish enough" next?



So, Singapore did "foolishly enough" went ahead with the MRT construction. Did Singapore "find itself in trouble"?

Eagles' Eye



patriot said...

He was not oni wrong in the past, he will be for as long as he is around as he has failed to make any amend.
Just hope that his blunders will not fold us up too quickly, though we will be folded up.

patriot

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

They are going on overdrive singing the integration song.

What do you think?

Anonymous said...

Whatever they do will not solve the integration problem. Same with the marriage and procreation problem. They are wasting their time and effort and the people's money.

The problem of Singaporeans not very responsive to caLLs for integration with foreigners lies with our size, leading to overcrowding, too many people fighting for too little space and resources. That was why people argue that this was not a problem when Singapore was still in its early years. That is why immigrants, although in controlled numbers, were seldom so alienated by the locals in most other countries.

Managed wel, and with more measured intake, in the early years, might have mitigated this problem. But it is too late to reverse the tide, or even to slow the inflow without throwing the economy into chaos.

Problems like this will crop up and fester for generations to come. But the leaders will be gone by then. The ones running the country will have to bear the consequences. That is the reality down the road.

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