2/16/2016

Is there a need to treat children like adult criminals?

Below is a letter from a parent of a 13 year old boy who had to go through a similar ordeal like Benjamin a couple of years ago.  The article is posted in TRE. This is how the children are being treated by adults who are educators and law enforcing officers. As long as ‘god’ keeps quiet, it is a sign of approval that this is the right way to treat naughty children, like criminals. Children are very safe in this caring and compassionate in this nanny state run by goody priests and matrons. But it is also a sign of a kind of sickness in the head, people that think children should be treated this way. Don’t be deceived by people appearing normal when they are actually crazy inside the head.

Psychiatrist would have a lot of things to say about such people, sadist, masochist, deprived or abused childhood, maybe privileged childhood and lost the sense of compassion for children, megalomaniac or whatever, some may have personal grudges or agenda.

 

13-year-old boy locked up in detention cell with other offenders for alleged molest

After reading the letter from Benjamin Lim’s family on citizen online. I totally understand how they felt and would like to share my story to let Benjamin Lim’s parents know that I admire their strength and courage to speak up.
I’m really sorry that they had to lose a son, in order to have authorities listen to what they had to say.
On 26 February 2014, I had a similar incident happen to me.
At 2.23pm, I received a call on my mobile from my son’s school discipline master informing me that they will be calling the police. They informed me that it was due to an alleged outrage of modesty of a female teacher. I asked the discipline master if it could wait till I got to the school before they did that, and his reply was that they had no control of what the teacher wanted to do which was to call the police.
Later on, when I had a chance to speak to the principal and the discipline master, I asked for an explanation of this, I was told that as the principal of the school it was his job to protect his staff – the teacher. If the job of the school principal, is to protect his adult staff, who protects the 13-year-old child?
At 2.50pm I arrived at the school’s general office and requested to see my son, the Discipline Master came to bring me to a room where my son was. He was being questioned by a police officer and with another police officer taking the statement and three other police officers outside. Unlike Benjamin’s incident, these police officers were all in uniforms and the police cars were marked.
Upon entering the room, I saw my son with his head resting on his arm on the table crying. The amount of tissues next to him showed that he must have been crying quite a bit.
I was told that they were done taking my son’s statement and got him to sign for it in my absence.
If you were a 13-year-old and there were 5-6 police officers present, would you not be afraid and would have admitted to whatever the officers had suggested to you? (especially, when you had no one there to support you?) As an adult, I would be frightened and extremely intimidated let alone a 13-year-old. Why would one require this amount of police officers to pick up a 13-year-old boy from his school in two police cars?
To shorten the story, my son was brought to the police station in the police car handcuffed. ( I had to beg the Investigating officer not to handcuffed him in the school,  only when they got into the police car.) After many requests, I was finally allowed to post bail for my son at about 10 pm!! All this while, he was sitting with other offenders in the same cell even though he was only 13 years of age.
These are the facts* that led to the above incident which I managed to find out from my son when we finally made it home.
1.        My son was in the school canteen just after school hours at 1.50pm, rushing to buy lunch; he has a history of gastric and thus try to eat as soon as he has the opportunity before he starts to get gastric pains. As there was no queue, in front of the drinks stall, many students were jostling to get to the front to buy their drinks. There was some manoeuvering, slight pushing and shoving, as in any typical canteen scene after school at lunch time, particularly in an all-boys school.
2.        As he was jostling his way forward, the said teacher, was walking past (on his right side and just within an arm’s length). At the point, his hand having swung outwards due to the jostling brushed her buttocks accidentally with the back of his hand, because he was holding his wallet in the hand.  She turned around and asked him “Do you  know what you have done?”
3.        My son immediately apologised to the teacher explaining that it was accidental. However, the teacher said, “Even if you are sorry, it is an arrest-able offence, and sorry cannot make up for it.” She then informed him that she was going to report this to his Form Teacher, who subsequently arrived and escorted him to the Discipline Master’s office. Before long, the police arrived, questioned him and arrested my son.
4.        When asked why he had confessed to the statement he made, he said it was the manner it was suggested to him, and he didn’t have a choice.
5.        Subsequently, My son was given a warning letter for the offence he confessed to. This is after a few months of having to go to the police station to post bail.
Children have to be protected because they have no formal rights
1.        Schools need to captain young lives and not put them in jeopardy
2.        Schools should not protect staff above pupils, but to treat both fairly.
3.        The child will clearly be traumatized socially, and there is bound to be a lot of rebound in terms of re-socializing him. (We had to have a 14-year-old boy’s death to prove this point)
4.        There was no proper disciplinary evaluation of both teacher and student before the case was taken to the police?
5.        The school did nothing to champion the situation and I think this is something that our education system is unaware of and has no idea how to handle given the climate today where we live in a world of cyber bullying etc.
6.        I had written into Ministry of Education (MOE) to seek answers, only to have MOE ask me to give the principal of my son’s school a call. (My son had by that time moved to another school.) It is extremely frustrating to try to explain to a 13-year-old boy, that even though he had done something accidentally, by mistake he was not given a chance to be proven innocent, no benefit of a doubt. He lost all his childhood friends in the process of his moving school.
I’m very thankful that with support and conversations with my son he has not taken it as hard as Benjamin Lim. Whether this incident has any long-term repercussions on his relationships in the future is yet to be seen.
Yours truthfully,
A concerned parent


Whether or not he deliberately touched her does not warrant the teacher calling the police. If a teacher is not capable of managing a situation in school with a student by herself then she has failed as a teacher. To decide to get police involved instead of leaving matters to the disciplinary teacher is to disregard the welfare of her student, disregard the fact that students are minors in her care in need of guidance. Such a person is not suitable to be a teacher. Boys at the school will not trust nor look up to her and this accused boy will probably be so traumatized that when he grows up he may have difficulty making friends with women.
The Singapore Police is expert at extracting confessions. They should be more professional and do more leg work to gather evidence. Did the police question the teacher how did she know it was a deliberate touching amounting to molest. Did the police gather evidence from the other students at the canteen whether the touching was deliberate or accidental or they merely rely on the confession extracted from the boy?
The Law on molesting in Singapore is too strict. Almost everyday you read in the newspaper someone is found guilty of molesting. It appears that Singapore is a nation of molesters. If someone happens to brush against a woman he can be charged for molesting if the woman complains. The man is defenseless.

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

/// Whether or not he deliberately touched her does not warrant the teacher calling the police. If a teacher is not capable of managing a situation in school with a student by herself then she has failed as a teacher. ///

uncle redbean
If a 16 year old blogger calls you a motherfucker in the social media.
Are you saying that you will not take any action against him?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

If it is you I will tell you I fuck your mother and you are my son.

agongkia said...

Moral of story.Never force your children to go secondary school as you are putting a risk if they are unlucky or if you are poor or a nobody.
Many of these so call teachers or school heads join these procession because they cannot find a proper job,not because they have interest or students welfare in their mind.
Once my mathematics spinster teacher Ms Ong asked me to go to another classroom's cabinet where she was the form teacher,to collect some books.I help and return thinking this spinster teacher entrusted me because I am a obedient boy.
Next moment she alleged that I kapo and eat some of the candy that her class prepared for funfare, from that cabinet. Walao oi...besides that kena call up by my form teacher ,embarrassed in front of my class,and as such affected my study because many think I hard up for candy till I complete school .
Else today I oso can become somebolee.
Luckily no mata mata arrived.

Anonymous said...

hahahahah, RB, give it to this young ass. He asked for it.
sorry to call your illegitimate son an ass. : )
thousand apologies.

agongkia said...

Sorry,typo.smartphone problem,profession not procession

Anonymous said...


like that, the hokkien say "very-eat-strength"...........

like that, oso kana police.........

like that, police will be super busy lah.......

like that, don't know how many similar cases............

like that, sad, very sad, very very sad.................

Anonymous said...

LOCAL DESIGNERS UPROAR AS GOVT GEBIZ TENDER DEMANDS UNLIMITED CHANGES TO WORK DONE

http://www.allsingaporestuff.com/article/local-designers-uproar-govt-gebiz-tender-demands-unlimited-changes-work-done

.....................................................
Fucking daft Sinkies.
- What about unlimited changes to the terms & conditions of our CPF account?
- What about unlimited changes to the Office of the President of Singapore?
- What about unlimited changes to the terms & conditions of our NCMPs?
..............................................................

"It is still labour. It is production. And there is no such thing as “UNLIMITED CHANGES”. Not in bold. And certainly not capitalised.
Otherwise, the ministry, stat board or agency should have labelled their GeBIZ document as Invitation-to-Be-A-Slave."

http://mothership.sg/2016/02/gebiz-invitation-to-quote-tender-doc-this-is-why-modern-slavery-exists-in-spore/

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

The issue:

>> Is there a need to treat children like adult criminals? <<

If they've committed an "adult" crime, then YES, ABSOLUTELY!

...but... "treatment" under the law has to be properly understood.

1. You're presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. i.e the fucking cops can make a pre-judgement on your innocence or guilt, but they have to treat you as if you're innocent.

2. Adults charged with crime have a right to legal representation, especially during questioning/ interrogation.

3. Accused adults have the right to safety and security whilst under detention. i.e. they should not be put at risk by locking them up with violent criminals. Therefore, if the accused is a minor, they MUST NOT be locked up with adults. Similarly, a female prisoner can only be searched by a female officer...the commonality in both cases is that special consideration is given because in certain defining characteristics of their personhood. i.e. a female is as such, and a minor is as such. However if they've committed an "adult crime", the law should be BLIND and be applied as the law should be: BLINDLY. i.e. as OBJECTIVELY as possible.

===============

What I find most troubling about this incident

>> My son was given a warning letter for the offence he confessed to. <<

NO ONE should be given any warning or sanction, or be discriminated against if they have committed and honest and UNINTENTIONAL error. This is TOTALLY FUCKED UP and speaks volumes about the CULTURE and its toxic aspects which I loath so much...like not being able to handle the simple idea of an "honest mistake". FUCK YOU SINGAPORE! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED! 1ST WORLD CUNTRY IZZIT? Fuck off lah!

If this kid is innocent, he should be treated as such.

You can make the argument that the teacher was careless and put her bacteria-laden ass in the way of the boy's hand, thus hitting the poor boy with an ass-load of dirty, stinky bacteria. How about charging the female teacher with ASSAULT ON A MINOR?

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

Do you see the "anti molest" posters all over the place? Especially in train stations?

My conspiratorial brain (untrustworthy even on a good day) tells me that those Femi Nazi Cunts from AWARE migh be behind this shit.

The subtext to those posters is that "every man is a potential perverted molester and women should not put up with this shit!". C'mon ladies, get fucking real...the vast majority of you are unattractive---not because you're FUGLY or have huge asses and small tits---but because you bitchez never smile, and come across as hostile and definitely unapproachable.

Many of you are unaware that being a man in Singapore ROCKS, as far as sex is concerned. We local men have the freedom to BANG drop-dead gorgeous women from a variety of nationalities and cultures for a lot less money than the fine (and jail) we'll get from the judge if we intentionally fondled your non-drop dead gorgeous "assets" on the fucking train at peak hour. Gimme a fucking break lah!

Please lah ladies, you should see past your paranoia of the "potential rapist" in every man and come to the OBJECTIVE CONCLUSION that the men who will molest you are A MINORITY, given also the fact that 10-15% of males are GAY!

The molest laws in Singapore need to be looked at. Supposing you have a pissed off man-hating female. What is to stop her from throwing her chest right into your arm, or her buttocks into your crotch and then scream "MOLEST!", and having you go thru all sorts of serious, potentially life-altering shit, just because she has the law on her side?

Nothing.

Anonymous said...

>> Is there a need to treat children like adult criminals? <<

What about politicians?
Is there a need to treat them like children?
Is a politician's integrity so fragile that it cannot stand up to scrutiny and questioning in the social media?
If you have done nothing wrong, why so scared?

Is it true?
You are not allowed by law to hire a private investigator to conduct surveillance on a politician?

Virgo 49 said...


Young Ass??

Bak Seow Boh Kaw !!

Think he smart smart kay yen kay yen made tbese remarks.

Wait till he goes into Tosh's regime. There they skin him on the parade square. Then if be kena detention barracks, let the watch dogs dunk him in kranji pond.

Commandos called them watch the dogs, watch the dogs.

Anyway, back to business. Aiya these top level civil servants, boh lan yong ones.

Always have to ask for directives or junior officers suggestions6 for they are too afraid to make decisions.

High pays they want but scared to make any decision. Jaga their pantak.

Round holes in square pegs most of them. Favourite quote Nothing that we know of.

If you get equally chiak liao bee ministers and leaders, what you expect??

agongkia said...

Aiyo sifu..
Kid or adult ,whatever charges,no difference if you suay suay kena one who just want to secure a conviction lah.
Fat hope to expect the bacteria infected ass complainant to be charge for making a false report .
Once accuse of outrage of modesty,innocent or not,you are finished,especially if they know you are martilah.
I now avoid walking besides meimei in public places becos I have a cheekopek look.Who will believe I am innocent if kena accuse:-)

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ cheekopek 1136:

>> Who will believe I am innocent if kena accuse:-) <<

Fear not, uncle...I will vouch for you to the police.

...but I also look like cheekopek, especially if I wear my spectacles, the bloody 4-eyes big big one!...I could make it worse!

Anonymous said...

Donald Trump called Ted Cruz a liar on national TV debate.
Ted Cruz dared not sue him.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

Only last week Trump called Cruz a PUSSY!

American media no balls to repeat it. Ted Cruz responded...like a pussy!

virgo49 said...

Aiyo, nowadays, young female teachers also sex-groomed young hunks and nerds.

Likewise, young or even grandpa teachers like to coddle young lasses.

What's the big deal if the young lad happened to brush your melons or small cikus.

MIFs female should give ang pows instead.

See one of our bulldog look alike PAP MP. Who.in the right mind wants to brush her??

Even mongrel also don't.want.to go near.

Why make mountain out of molehill unless you kena pee chek on your ciku by the black ants from the Nation of Rapists.

agongkia said...

To help students above 12 maybe can consider having back lanes like those days to replace those Johore road,khoon chio khar and KeongSiakkai...
My class mate brought me to these places in school uniform to see lengloi and ah kuas in those days.
Ah kua love to touch here and there and be touch .Can use finger poke poke.Free.
Maybe this can help to cure itchy finger.

Anonymous said...

Happened to me a couple of times. Guy walking a little close behind me. Me swung my arm behind and brushed his eh xxx. Pretended nothing happened. Too embarrassed to apologize. Luckily he didn't call police. Otherwise, I'll receive warning letter too.

SG Girl

agongkia said...

SG Girl
Solution..walk with left hand holding your handbag or grocery.Right hand in your pocket..or get someone who can protect you by holding your right hand.Wish you a happy ,safe and secure new year.

b said...

Singapore is famous for strict laws. It comes with pros and cons.

Anonymous said...

Criminals should be punished for their crimes.
However, they should be treated as humanely as possible by Law Enforcer
and those incharge of them.

Mistreatment of offender before or after conviction cannot be condoned.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Agongkia.

SG Girl

Anonymous said...

all molestors lah. everyday, see new interesting things...molest. see cats and dogs...molest. see children..molest.new car ..motorbike...molest. go supermarket...everything molest. shopping for clothes bags...molest like nobody business. aiyoh...born into world...already learn to molest. Molest is a way of your life lah.

only stupid religion thinking make natural sexual behavior like committing murder like that

actually...break law or no break law. 13 yrs old a kid lah. scold can liao if don't like.. boy do again...slap lah or tell his parents...most will learn..why involve police and kill kid?

if adult..knowing against law...do it...he is breaking law....end...what molestor?..your father mother sister brother grandnehneh...are all molestors...so pls ah...dont mix mix and bring in religion and goreng goreng ok

Anonymous said...

Religion peach...lust of flesh...orrr..immediately..they interpek...lanjio..cheebay..itchy...siiiiin...burn in hell...hahahaha a..Singapore laws like that one...you dont know meh?...haahaaaaa

Anonymous said...

Stupid sinkies :)

Anonymous said...

Find the Content of theTRE Post very disturbing and hard to believe.
Did the Molested Teacher have witness(es), since alleged offence was committed at the School Canteen with many pupils queuing for food.
Will a pupil be that bold and stupid to molest a teacher in the presences of many other school mates?
The Part of the Body tge Teacher claimed to have been molested was bare or unprotected by her attires?

Did the Discipline Master, Principal and Police Investigators probed the Above Questions?

And why the Need for so many police officers to attend to the Case? Why was the Case not discreetly carried out? What are the Protocols for School and SPF for handling the Case?

It seems that discipline system in school and law enforcement system in SPF were and are in a mess. This certainly reflects very badly on the Sib Justice System.
What a shame!

Anonymous said...

No case. Only wuliao people nothing better to do anallies incomplete story. Please. Go watch monkey King 2. Monkey King 3 will be acted by someone in parliament soon

Anonymous said...

If Li Nan Xing Xing pinch her buttock in a bar..she will probably turn around...choy..hehehe..hohoho

Anonymous said...

In the schools, the level of unthinking is like dat. If someone shouts rape or molest, straightaway police case. No need to investigate. Serious offence, let the police investigate. Wash hand liao.