4/12/2015

Case against forgiving





My previous post discussed the pros and cons on forgiving the wrong doers. The generous and kind would want to forgive and let the asshole go in peace with a lesser sense of guilt. Those who were hurt badly would find it difficult to forgive and would not want to forgive. It would be too easy for the asshole after what he had done to the victims.


Is there a case against forgiving? Forgiving a child is easy for the child did not know what he has done. Ignorance or innocence could be a reason to forgive when there is no intent or not knowing the harm that could be inflicted on the other party.  But when the asshole is a smart ass, knowing very well what he was doing and the pain inflicted, why should the asshole be forgiven? Why must the victim be the generous and kind one, to take the whacking and to let the asshole go free?


There are many instances of assholes bullying, taunting and torturing their victims right before our eyes. And the arrogance, the abuse of power and position and wealth to oppress, to hurt, to ridicule, to bankrupt or to put people behind bars, all done with a clear intent to harm the victim, why should the asshole be forgiven? There is another way of looking at this. A politician is like a man in ‘Jiang Hu’,  人在江湖,生不由己,he just had to do it knowing very well the consequences or it is ‘you die or I die’. So be it. I think this is bull. Modern day politics in a civilized society should be civil.


Another point, why forgive when the asshole did not see anything wrong in what he did? And why forgive when the asshole did not even ask to be forgiven? When the asshole is repentant, remorseful, and regretted for what he had done, and come begging for forgiveness, there is a case to forgive, to be kind and generous.
 
Why forgive an asshole that may even call you daft or silly to forgive him and may want to shit on you one more time if given the chance and walk away strutting around like a vain cock, telling the world how clever he is?


And for those assholes that are still cocky like hell, and seeing all the pleas to forgive but still go about bullying others, ridiculing others and harassing their victims, let there be no forgiveness when their turn come. They know, they knew what they were doing and what they are in for. Live by the sword die by the sword, like a man. There shall be no mercy to the evil and wicked, especially the very clever ones.


God also believes so. He said he would come, one day, to judge and would judge fairly. The evil ones would be burnt in the sea of fire. No amount of confession or forgiveness would save him. Many clever ones do not believe in such nonsense or they would not be doing what they did.


There is another big reason not to forgive when politicians are wicked. They are not supposed to, and there is no good reason to be so. The first premise of going into politics is to serve the people, to do good for the people. Another person or party too has the same idea, to do good and to serve the people. What is so wrong, so objectionable and unforgiveable for another person or party to step out to want to serve the people that they must be destroyed? They may have different ideas and ways to serve the people and it is up to the people to choose or reject them.


There is no good reason to what them dead, to want to crush them like cockroaches at every opportunity.  What is there to be so cruel and wicked, to adamantly want to harm them for wanting to serve the people, to want to fix them? They are just like you, to serve the people. They are not gangsters out to kill. Politicians are not gangsters, right?


Going into politics is an altruistic endeavour. Going into politics is not about grabbing power, for personal glory and interests, to destroy other people who want to do the same and not allowing them do serve the people. Why is it necessary then to destroy other people who also want to do good? It simply means that the intention is not altruism but personal, about protecting selfish interest, power and glory.


For this reason, there should not be forgiveness as the intent is not good, not about serving the people but self serving. You are depriving the people from being served by better men and women with better ideas.

20 comments:

Anonymous said...

I am in no position to forgive LKY since my "A" Level results is not up to LKY and PAP standard.
- methinks LKY would laugh at me if I tell him I forgive him
- a slave telling a God that HE is forgiven is a laughable idea

I'm more concerned about "moving on".
Singapore is more than the vision of one man and one party.
Moving on beyond LKY.
Moving on beyond PAP.
To remove the shackles of the mind.
And boldly go where no Singaporeans have gone before.
PAP is welcome to be part of the solution.
Or they can stay where they are and be part of the problem.

Anonymous said...


大事化小事 小事化無事 !

大事化小事 小事化無事 !

Anonymous said...

Written in 1931.
Truly an apt description of daft Sinkies:

"In one word, we recognize the necessity of human effort, but we also admit the futility of it.
This general attitude of mind has a tendency to develop passive defense tactics.

'Great things can be changed into small things and small things can be changed into nothing (大事化小事, 小事化無事).'
On this general principle, all Chinese quarrels are settled, all Chinese schemes are adjusted and all reform programmes are discounted until there is peace and rice for everybody.
'One moving is not so good as one sitting still (一動不如一靜)', so runs another of our proverbs, which means the same thing as 'Let well enough alone', and 'Let the sleeping dogs lie'.

Human life moves on, therefore, on the line of least struggle and least resistance.
This develops a certain calmness of mind, which enables a man to swallow insults and find himself in harmony with the universe.
It develops also certain passive defense tactics, which can be more terrible than any tactics of aggression.

When you go to a restaurant and feel hungry, but the food will not come, you can repeat your orders to the boy.
If the boy is rude, you can do something and complain to the management.
But if the boy replies to you in the most elegant manner, 'Coming, coming' and does not bring the food, you can do absolutely nothing except pray, or curse, in an elegant manner also.
Such, in brief, is the passive strength of the Chinese people, a strength which those who are made to feel most will appreciate best. "

SOURCE:
http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/features.php?searchterm=030_people.inc&issue=030

Matilah_Singapura said...

1. "Forgiveness" only applies in a context where there has been some "wrong" done, by a wrong-doer to his "victim"

2. If there is no "wrong", there is no reason to "forgive".

3. In the world view of most religionists, the whole world is "sinful" (a concept totally made up of whole cloth, i.e. there is no such thing as "sin"), and the Abrahamic faiths go one better in stating that you are a "sinner" simply for being born out of an "unclean" vagina, which tempted your father to fuck your mother in LUST and therefore taking both their beings away from the "purity" of their invisible magical sky-fairy, aka "god/ allah/ yahweh.

4. The biggest misunderstanding of what "forgiveness" is:

The primary beneficiary of forgiveness is not to cut some slack for the wrong-doer but to ease the mind of the victim to lessen his suffering.

The wrong-doer already did the dirty deed. So you can forgive him---to ease your mind---but you can still exact "compensation" even lex talionis or retributive justice (based on the principle of proportionality), only it is done with less "hatred" as you've already "forgiven" the perpetrator.

5. "Forgiveness" in every religious contexts is complete and utter bullshit, and does not accord with HUMAN NATURE's hardwiring" to restore some form of "balance" when someone is harmed by another person.

6. The award for the most FUCKED UP idea of forgiveness goes to the christian religious DOGMA. In this piece-of-shit nonsense, butt-fucked, upside down crazy SATIRE, god fucks a young chick to produce a son which is also god himself (god the father is also god the son---completely nuts right?), then 33 years later allows humans to capture and MURDER his "only begotten son" (which is himself), and in his dying breath FORGIVES ALL OF HUMANITY---past, present and future---for their "sins". (as already stated previously, another made-up bullshit concept)

Matilah_Singapura said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Another Taoist wise quote, 'Do nothing and everything will take care of itself'. 'Wu wei yu wei'

Try that in the real world, and you will become history, forgotten or eaten up.

Matilah_Singapura said...

@ RB:

Depends what the "thing" in question is.

There is not one single "cookie cutter" solution for everything---however all religions will tell you that there is, without any proof or consideration for the context you find yourself in.

In christian DOGMA you are expected to "forgive" the asshole who has just raped your children. In fact, if you harbour feelings of "lex talionis" (revenge) you are the sinner asshole who is in the WRONG.

In religious DOGMA, the guy who cut you off in traffic (let's face it, a small matter lah) has committed a morally equivalent act as the guy who has just burnt down your house and murdered your family.

So using religions' "cookie cutter" principle you are supposed to do nothing and let things take care of themselves, or "forgive" with all your heart.

Whilst this works quite well for the actions the errant lane swerving motorist---just ignore, do nothing---it doesn't quite fit the required response to the actions of an arsonist-murderer. (i.e. your house, your family)

Fucking nonsense lah. Religions and other systems of DOGMA like to prescribe their gullible followers cookie-cutter solutions to life's situations, because then the "true believer" is not required to figure out things fro himself by using his brain.

In fact, all religions caution you against using your brain. "Brain bad, invisible sky-daddy words---GOOD!"

No thinking allowed. No thinking aloud.

Anonymous said...

I realise that it is very easy for those who have not been victimised to say " let's forgive and forget and let's move on "However, what is there to gain by going on about taking revenge or holding people to be accountable? Lets face it, if the perpetrator is still alive then he should answer for his wrong doings, and if that person has passed on, then we should just forget and forgive and move on.

Anonymous said...

"Going into politics is not about grabbing power, for personal glory and interests, to destroy other people who want to do the same and not allowing them do serve the people."
RB

Please lah RB, that's not the way politics works lah.

Because I see going into politics is like going to war. In war, if u don't destroy the enemy, the enemy will destroy u, tio bo?

So like that how not to destroy the enemy, u tell me lah?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

This is the biggest myth and biggest contradiction. Going into politics to serve the people but really self serving. Going into politics to serve the people but instead fixing the people and like going to war, to kill the people.

Where is the altruism? Or is politics being hijacked by the thugs who walked around holding a halo over their heads? Is going to politics like going to war?

Anonymous said...

Maybe the late LKY, and knowing his opponents well, fear that his opponents would destroy him if they came into power?

If so, then I don't really blame the late LKY for some of the harsh methods he used against his opponents. If I were him, I would have done the same too.

Anonymous said...

Most humans attitude & personality is established by 4 yrs old. If a 4-yr old kid is an asshole, you can bet your ass that he will be an asshole at 20 yrs old and at 60 yrs old. That's why I'm not very forgiving of kids. Kids at 5-6 yrs old definitely know what they are doing and why.

Anonymous said...

I can understand the need to beat your opponents to the finish line.

But why the need to imprison the poor chaps for 32 years? over 20 years??
Why even the need to bankrupt your opponents?

Where is the humanity?
Where is the fair competition?

What I see is a manifestation of the most inhumane and evil side of his character.

Anonymous said...

Why even the need to bankrupt your opponents?
Anon 1:54 pm

Kiasu ? So whack until make sure really "dead".

Anonymous said...

Snake still can bite even if head already chopped off, u know.

Anonymous said...

Politicians are just ordinary citizens who stepped forward to want to serve the country. They are not evil people or criminals.

Only people with the mindset of thugs would treat other politicians like thugs and criminals. They should look into the mirror and ask what an asshole they are.

b said...

Forgive is a scam just like freedom and democracy. It is to manipulate the people to be controlled blindly by their ruling elites.

patriot said...

Some describe politic as fire some call it war and yet some liken it to love.

In war as in love, all is fair. The Ultimate is to win by hook or by crook. Even the Most Evil Mean is to be resort to. That's why politic is said to be fire. It scorches, burns and kills if one does not escape in defeat.

Anyway, o forgive is desirable and a virtue in magnanimity. However, if the Harm done is unforgiveable, not taking avenge is not right. The Chinese Saying 有仇不报非君子, 有恩不报不是人, meaning a person of valour shall avenge the misdeed done to him/her or members of his/her love ones. And a person who repays kindness is one of virtuous characteristic.

To cut it shot, the Evil Folks do not deserve forgiveness, they are not pardonable.

Do You think anyone who worked for the Enemy that killed Your Tribe pardonable with forgiveness?

patriot

Anonymous said...

It has been said that politics is dirty, very dirty. Therefore, it followers that those who get involved in politics as politicians are very dirty people. They know fully well that politics is dirty, why do they enter politics?

Ask them this question: Why do they enter politics?

To care for the people whom they do not know, do not associate, to not mix with, do not even know their faces?

Come on. Politicians enter politics all because of selfish interests - name, fame, status, power, money, etc. These are what they are after. Definitely not to take good care of the masses.

Whoever think that politicians are there to look after them must be very stupid.

So, when politicians make mistakes, why should the people forgive them?

Anonymous said...

I protest. Singapore is an exception. We have the most honourable and righteous and most talented people in politics.

Have faith in Singapore having honest and finger licking good politicians to serve and help the people. They are all carefully chosen, selfless and incorruptible. Just make sure yew pay them very well.