10/15/2016

Singapore China relations – Open split?


The verbal war between Singapore and China does not seem to subside and Singapore is upping the ante with another article by Kwa Chong Guan belabouring the point that China has been pressuring Singapore and ‘to influence and shape the opinions and actions of Chinese Singaporeans’. In his article appearing in the Today paper on 14 Oct titled ‘China’s unrealistic expectations of overseas Chinese’, Kwa Chong Guan traced the history of Chinese involvement in the MCP’s fight for the independence of Malaya and Singapore and the subversive role in local trade unions and political movements of the past.
 

Kwa Chong Guan made it very clear that ‘the Straits born Chinese, who did not think of themselves as huaqiao and did not identify with China’ did not agree with the strategies of the MCP. He then went on to relate to the MCP activities of early Malaya and Singapore days culminating in the Non Aligned Movement spat as another of ‘China’s attempt to shape the opinions and interests of the Chinese community in Singapore about Chinese interests’. Kwa drew a clear distinction in the modern Singaporeans and the Singaporeans of yore, that the new Singaporeans have no special affinity to China like their forefathers.
The new Singaporean entrepreneurs investing in China did not go there because of the historical attachment to China but purely based on ‘hard business investment’.  They did their investments not depending on ‘guan xi’, in other words, Singaporeans are principled, abiding by international laws when doing business in China and would not want to be treated differently. Kwa also emphasized that ‘Singapore…has to stand firm against demands by the ancestral homelands of Singapore’s diverse ethnic communities for their loyalty.’
As Singapore keeps on harping on the Chinese govt making demands on Singapore on racial affinity, how would this affect Singapore’s relations and investments in China? Would the trips by Hsien Loong to the USA, Japan, India and Australia have anything to do with the open split between Singapore and China? Is Singapore telling China to lay off and Singapore has other alternatives to invest, in the US, Japan, India and Australia and Singapore and China can go their separate ways henceforth?
The regular display of unhappiness by Singapore seems to be an official position, no longer someone speaking on his personal capacity. And most of the speakers airing this dispute hailed from one school of thought, the Rajaratnam School of International Studies. The notables making tough and flamboyant speeches on the SCS and demanding China to respect the ‘UN backed’ Hague rulings all came from this School.
The Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policies has been quite silent on this spat. Maybe they are dealing more with local policies and issues and not international matters.  With the tempo of this spat gaining strength, it would be interesting if Lee Kuan Yew is still around and whether he would be wearing his favourite Chinese jacket during important official functions with great pride. Or would he be returning to his suit and tie to show a change in policies to be less dependent on China and more cosiness with the West
 

Lee Kuan Yew was a straits born and every inch a baba. As he grew up he rejected the name Harry Lee given to him by his grandfather. He did not name Hsien Loong and Hsien Yang and Wei Ling with English names like Peter, Simon or Jane. He also sent them to Chinese schools. What did all these said of this straits born Chinese? He was not the banana that one encounters in the island. He was not the typical straits borns. The straits borns are not a homogenous group. There will be the bananas that think highly of everything western, there will be those that are proud of their ancient civilisation.
 

And how would those wanting to be friendly to China be belittled as unacceptable? Being friendly to China is not the same as being a traitor to Singapore, going against the interests of Singapore and Singaporeans. The New Zealanders, Australians and many white colonised countries did not feel ashamed to be pro America because they were whites. Why should straits born Chinese feel ashamed to be friendly to China if they did not compromise Singapore's interests?
 

This episode is really Singapore punching above its weight, taking on China head on, demanding China to obey The Hague rulings, to obey international laws,  to protect freedom of navigation and to be principled, as if China is doing and acting to the contrary. Needless to say, diplomatically, it is rubbing China up the wrong side and the open spat would not go away just because Singapore is punching above its weight.
 

Where would all this lead to in Sino Singapore relations?

135 comments:

Virgo1949 said...


These bananas think they are more Atas just because they speak Eng Kok better than others and been influenced by their decadent lifestyles.

Without those patriotic Chinamen who fought and died for you during those turbulent times, you MFs would be here today.

They are the Prime Movers and Contributors to the difficult pioneer time if sinkieland.

There are many boh lien chors traitors in our midst which their forefathers would cringe in shame of having them as their generations.

Anonymous said...

Rb, sinkie economy already tanked at the moment and with this thingi with China we are toast. Those fellows there when on empty stomach see can talk big or not. Knn damn piss off.

Anonymous said...

Rb, sinkie economy already tanked at the moment...
10:26 am

Tiok. When even Toa Payoh North (or better known as Braddell Road) "brothel" started to retrench, u know how bad things are.

The only good thing, and for PAP, is that the opposition is still not ready to be govt.


Anonymous said...

They going to invest in India in a big way man.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

I was preparing to go to Marina Bay to shoot the fame Red Arrow flypast. Just before leaving I received a sms that it was postponed again due to inclement weather.

What nonsense, weather is fine as on Thursday. And for the whole morning I was searching for news on the flypast to go to a vantage point to shoot. Alas, no such info.

What have happened to the Brits? Can't even organise a simple event like a flypast?

What a disappointment. If they can't even provide info on where they are going to fly, how are they going to expect the spectators to be there?

Anonymous said...

rb you said "Why should straits born Chinese feel ashamed to be friendly to China if they did not compromise Singapore's interests"
I think you confuse the word Straits born Chinese with the more generic term local born Chinese. The term Straits born Chinese refer to babas and peranakans. This group of people are culturalised with the Malay sector, do not speak Chinese, and are generally not interested in being friendly to China because there is no link in language or culture. On the other hand Singapore local born Chinese are the descendents of China Immigrants of the 1950's and beyond,WHO CHOSE TO MAINTAIN THEIR CHINESENESS THROUGH CULTURAL AND LINGUISTIC TIES. Their parents or grandparents have fond memories of China and marvel at the greatness of the civilisation of Chinese. They have pride in them generally, and this is the group which you correctly said would not feel ashamed to be friendly to china so long as it does not compromise Singapore interests.
The writer of the article which you referred to, is possibly a Baba peranakan, unlikely a descendant of Chinese immigrants of the 1950's who would be happy to be called a Chinese, with links to the Great Chinese Culture, minus the politics of communism.
In today's world, mainland China is mostly an economic machine, not so much an idealogical base which spreads communism and world dominion. It is a mistake to think along the lines of the USA that if china owns the spratly's they will block the shipping lanes and there is disaster and longsuffering to Asian states! There is ABSOLUTELY NO IMPACT TO SINGAPORE if china take the spratly's, and the oil whatever. In fact Duterte didn't think much of it too and openly exposed the hypocrisy of Americans, the real power which likes to spread wars and tensions everywhere. Only foolish politicians will fall for this ruse. Lee Kuan Yew would not have allowed things to happen in this way.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi anon 11:49am, you are right in many ways.

As for the peranakans, if you go to their homes or visit the peranakan museum, you will find that they are quite high on Chinese cultures and practices, even pottery. They retained a lot of Chinese culture in their lifestyle but mixed with local culture.

Yes, their thinking could be different as they were the educated, rich and favoured group by the British governors and were the elites that were more familiar with British literature like Robert Browning, Shakespeare and the like.

While some are still clinging to this subculture, it would not be long before they become history.

Anonymous said...

China trying to make an example of us by forcing us to kneel. We must hold 住 ! Shw them we are no push over.

If the rest of ASEAN see this big dragon cannot even subdue this little red dot. When comes whatever negotiation they will have 底气. By then it will be much different.

Anonymous said...

@ It is a mistake to think along the lines of the USA that if china owns the spratly's they will block the shipping lanes and there is disaster and longsuffering to Asian states! There is ABSOLUTELY NO IMPACT TO SINGAPORE if china take the spratly's, and the oil whatever

Wait till China show the world on how it can peacefully tackle the Taiwan and HK issue. Somemore it is their own blood brothers.

Until then i have no doubts that it will want 100% control of everything in the area (including the rocks/sand and fishes under the sea) without discussion and negotiation.

It is all about who stands to benefits more to Singapore in an overall scenario. Can they take over the US/Europe MNC factories and jobs in Singapore? What are the types of Industries that China are willing to relocate to Singapore?

The Math is clear!

Lycurgus80ofsparta said...

The peranakans are surely but slowly being assimilated into the hua-xia chinese mainstream. This is because of the mother tongue policy, you have to study mandarin even if you are peranakan. It is a wise decision. For people growing up in the 80s i cannot distinguish between peranakan and hua xia. O

LKY was extremely wise about the degeneracy of western liberal values. During the 90s he argued for the superiority of Confucian values. Politicians nowdays have no clue.

Anonymous said...

10.59 am how u know there was retrenchment there? I think the poor economy has affected demand cause there is this website that used to have hundreds of Vietnamese young girls offering special services but no longer exist. Only some sites that hosts like 10 girls still struggling. So u are right that the economy has really tanked

virgo49 said...


Aiya, Toa Payoh North refered to the Shit Times lah!

Next Sin Pools with their online gaming.

Many Customers Service Operators gonna be retrenched for Football bettings etc

Anonymous said...

@ Even Americans cannot get back their CPF money.
Do you think Singaporeans are luckier?

October 13, 2016 7:58 pm

六省养老金个账空账率超九成,将来兑现或入不敷出
http://www.chinatimes.cc/article/61390.html

Anonymous said...

Without threat from MCP, there are zero chance that British would grant independence to their colonies.

After WW2, France still refuse to give up their claim in Vietnam. Vietnamese people need to fight for independence against France and US.
Today, South Korea and North Korea are still divided , partly thank to unilateral act based Western geopolitical interests.

Korean people were not consulted over such partition.

After WW2, British quickly return to Malaya and Singapore to establish military rule to assert their authority over local people.
Soon, British portray those anti Japanese forces ( British ally in WW2) as new enemy as part of their divide and rule tactic.
In doing so, British can divert the anger of public to Communists.

The public must rely heavily on British to restore order and guarantee their safety. Such measure managed to reduce anti British sentiments after ww2.

Their public was taught to hate MCP - Communists more than European colonists.

Anonymous said...

Kwa Chong Gxx should ask himself why doesn't any Australia, New Zealander, British or Canadian authors ever wrote such piece of article

"USA have unrealistic expectation on overseas British people or Anglo Saxon tribe"

who did not think of themselves as Anglo Saxon and did not identify with USA interest’

It is a fact that Australian, New Zealander, British, Canadian is a keen follower of US foreign policy.

Anonymous said...


hahaha...........

不知死活!

不见棺材不流泪!

大家保重! 大家保重!

hahaha..........

Anonymous said...

Minister Josephine Teo: “You do not need much space to have sex”

http://statestimesreview.com/2016/10/11/minister-josephine-teo-you-do-not-need-much-space-to-have-sex/
---------------------------
Q: What food reduces a woman's sex drive by 90%
A: Her wedding cake

Q: How do Ministers make love doggy style?
A: The Minister sits up and begs. The wife rolls over and plays dead.

If a Minister can say stupid things.
Why can't I make jokes?

Hermit said...

Excuse my ignorance, but is Kwa Chong Guan any way related to Kwa Chong Seng?

Anonymous said...

大陆拟取消内外之分 台胞将享“准国民待遇”

http://news.sohu.com/20161014/n470252827.shtml

PRC all the Cake Say , Cake Sar Puah Hung talk . In the end ....

At least doing the right thing , improvement.

Anonymous said...

To anon@1224,
You have to understand that Taiwan is actually part of china, so is hongkong. There is nothing wrong with china taking back control. Honkong was ceded to the british after the opium war (a big shame, General Lin burned the british opium ships and after that british and etc., invaded and took hongkong by forceful "treaty"). Taiwan is renegade province of china when the corrupt Chiang regime escaped to taiwan andset base there, stealing tonnes and tonnes of money secretly there to finance operations). It is not posible for hkg and Taiwan to be recognised as independent country in the longterm..
Secondly you are living in the past, as if sg lifeline is the mnc jobs provided by americans. That's true in the 60's when sg labour was cheap and skilled so Texas Instruments, Fairchild, etc set up huge factories here to produce goods. Today,Only 25%of our gdp comes from factories manufacturing, mostly is in the services sector.
China today is a peace loving country, only the Americans can't stand it because the chinese industry is now better than American. So many positive innovations are coming out of china, the Americans are so jealous and afraid.

Anonymous said...

@ October 15, 2016 5:28 pm

Exactly, what i am saying this is how they treat HK and Taiwan, their blood brothers. What will happen to the rest of Singaporean, Malaysian Chinese for eg.

Times have changed. Taiwanese and HK have their new gen of youth are full of eager of freedom. At least the freedom of choosing independently their leader and cannot blame anybody for their fate.

The reason why HK was lost was because of Qing govt weakness, only have to blame the china people themselves who obey like a dog. As for taiwan, who to blame when commies have no boats to challenge the US 7th fleet or no boats to cross the straits.... Now start to blame others.... You go to street to beg for food and you blame me or the govt .....

What you are citing are peanuts. What about FMC, GE vetco, PW, Schlumberger, Weatherford, Haliburton, Boeing, Rolls royce, MTU diesel, Cameron, Emerson?

To name only the few? You can google to find the address in Singapore. If these coys back out, you tell me what would happen to Singapore strategically? 1st you need to find out what these coy do and how they impact the global strategic technology business... Not steel or garment factory....

I challenge you here....unless you like a tortise who would back out.

Again What can China bring in? Just list some names. Bank of China? I cant even think much?

Also name a few China innovations to prove to us?

Veritas said...

China lost hk. Indian never fought and spread her legs to white man. At least myanmar kill a lot during anglo burmese war.

Veritas said...

Dog your head. Before 1840 china won ecery war against white man. Taiwan was a result of driving Dutch away by admiral Koxinga

Anonymous said...

Today,Only 25%of our gdp comes from factories manufacturing, mostly is in the services sector.

Calculator not working?

If west tech coy (who can resist cheap labor trend) back out. Do you think this 25 or whatever % can hold (go up or down) or our fate will be sealed like HK who is now relying mostly on service sector and have no choice but to accept their HK Chief EO be pre selected by China? Then 100 years later, cry father and cry mother and blame this, blame that same like you as their food and water supply is controlled?

Why do you think these western coys still cont to stay despite our cost is so high relative? A lot of countries are opened up liao. In theory, you earn more profit just by shifting your factory without doing much to your product.

For some time, we have acted blur to enjoy the best of both worlds. But same like the PR in Singapore who also enjoy the best of both world will start to face the music simply because it is the people's choice to say no via vote casting where China people have no chance to do so.

Contrary to what others think, I think it is the old man wish to retain manufacturing at all cost as simply service sector is too volatile and unreliable. The son is just following his father's view and i think it is the correct one.

Not too long ago, Singapore's position was threaten with the kra canal who now become the kra drain or dream....

Anonymous said...

People talking about Chiang's times. IF there is no water between China mainland and taiwan.

There is no DPP now. simple as that.... senile like hell....

Veritas said...

You enjoy the wealth depending on the value you create for society -- theoretically.

In singapore case we are increasingly sitting on top of ponzi dynamite. Engineering creates value but where is our engineering?

Anonymous said...

Bingo!

Same like China but we are on smaller scale. Difference is one has the "support" of the population on paper, the other does not need one.

So if you are our leader, which leg would you hug given the cards all laid out especially when we know our innovation is zero ( we tried many times liao) and unlikely to progress in future terms? On the other hand, population is ageing and living longer, where to find more money?

Or do we bet on something that will provide us with 2nd tier technological jobs (at least something) (the other point is US also will never transfer their tier one product line to us) or we go with something cheaper and has not worked before yet? Even if China has something innovative , would they give us to manufacture?

Veritas said...

It will take at least 30 more years for china to be richer than us provided we standstill. Until then few meaningful china investment in sg. Even when china try help hk only tycoon get help. Job that trickle down stay in china because prc is having a larger social problem

Veritas said...

I already tell rb many times we are usa dog and need be grateful. Rb dont listen

Anonymous said...

Anon@528,
Yes there are some big us mnc in sg, but do you hvvthe figures of sgn employed? With 1,5million foreigners from india china Philippines etc these mncs definitely employ large numbers of foreigners due to our PM welcome of everybody "ft", so,it is no longer a big problem for them to go together with the myriad "foreign talents". Sgn are already desperate for jobs now, whats the big deal.
You also mentioned that china mistreat hkg and Taiwan and will do same to sg. What nonsense. If china mistreat hkg, it would not hv a 1 country 2 systems for 50 years post 1997 handover! If china mistreat Taiwan, it would threaten war immediately to take by force. This shows the chinese are not warmongers like Americans who sell war thingies and stir suspicion between countries! Duterte see through this and start to support china!
China has transformed over the years and we must never think of them in the way we think of them in the 70's. If duterte can change, i am sure we can.

Veritas said...

What are we producing that justify our lifestyle and salary? Taiwan has tsmc and mediatek. Korea has samsung.

All capital here like oil refinery drug plant belongs to white man . Upon a reshuffinfly of power where are we standing?

Wben white is down it may take along sg. Dont be too happy over china rise

Anonymous said...

"Where to find more money"?
Easy one. Cpf. The more old people the better. When reach 55, ordinary account moved to RA, for 5 years cannot touch. What happen to the precious 5 years? Typically $100,000 each of 200,000 people is $20,000,000,000. Yes $20 billion dollars per cohort of people turning 55 is available for govet to play with for 10 years. They invest it and feed you small part of the dividends and call it "interest" during the 10 years. What huge money $20billion a year for ten years to play. When reach drawdown time 65 (changing goalposts), if y select Standard Plan they whack 100% of the RA, pay you $800 pm, but the bulk of the $20billion they continue to esrn huge dividends and you are losing out on all the interest if you select Standard plan. Unless you believe in Nation building pap style, never choose stsndard plan...

Anonymous said...

Please replace "5" with "10"in above, typo.

Anonymous said...

@ China has transformed over the years and we must never think of them in the way we think of them in the 70's. If duterte can change, i am sure we can.

Question is China is real change or acting ? revenge 10 years 20 years 30 years also can.

狡兔死,走狗烹,鸟飞尽,良弓藏,敌国破,谋臣亡

This area china dont have very good track record. Most recent just look at Mao or Bo Xi Lai.

Anonymous said...

@ October 15, 2016 7:53 pm

It does not matter how much percentage of Sinkies are employed in foreign coys in Sg given the current conditions where we have a global economy. You dont want these coys to be around, many more behind queuing behind to receive these coys with red carpet. As long as these coys pay tax, rent office or factory space, rent these or rent that, need telephone/internet line, or medical screening, insurance coverage or banking facility. Even they provide opportunities for our food business, photo copying machines. All these will contribute to taxes and revenue. Even they charter buses to ferry workers also will help Sg.

I am still waiting for the tortise to answer the the question on which china coy can replace these western coys (i have not even included Jap coys yet). Will china give us some rice even if they have something innovative (100% china design with parts) to manufacture?

I mean i am not sure what your job is but to convince a panel or a decision maker for eg. whose leg to hug need to come out with a comprehensive report with all support data/appendixes to reach the conclusion. And i am sure they have done the checks.

Now things would be different if we have resources (eg. O&G) or better choice. Then i can tell you, all these problems will not be problems. And we would FO either side.

Anonymous said...

@ October 15, 2016 7:53 pm

As for China way of treatment of HK and Taiwan.

I thought the same as you in the earlier days when HK was handover to HK.

What a mess now created in one country 2 systems when people enmass go to the streets. Never like that it was like that. What does HK people want? These people who goes to the streets never said that they dun want China or HK independence but they wanted the option to elect their leaders in a free open election even if it means electing a HK leader to represent HK and not a puppet. Anyway HK is punished in reduction of no. of china tourists to come to HK and threaten to cut water and fresh produce. There were also reports of PLA troops in HK put on standby.

When Malaysia threatened to cut sg water supply, Sg mobilized an armor brigade. Poor HK cannot do anything to protect themselves and young people have to resort to go to the streets.

In taiwans case, it has always threatened taiwan since commies take over. Poor taiwan cannot even wave its national flag. So many missiles are targeted and so on. I wont go into the details of how Taiwan (in a better position than HK) or US or allies come to help in crisis times or not. What ever it is Taiwanese people made the choice and every 5 years or so it may so change whatsoever.

Do you treat your blood brothers like that when there is a difference of opinions? The key is how you win the heart of these blood brothers who has same ancestral links?

The only reason why China will not take strong actions in HK or attack taiwan is for the fear of the region trade to go on a standstill. While the war results may not be conclusive as opposition forces may go guerila style. It is worried that without trade, how to account to its 1.4 billion population. 60% of GDP depends on trade now for China. Mao and Deng has nothing to worry as it simply means close door policy if anything goes wrong during those days.

Anonymous said...

Hahaha you said "when Malaysia threatened to cut sg water supply, Sg mobilized an armor brigade. Poor HK cannot do anything to protect themselves and young people "
What a joke. What can sg army do? Grab and steak Malaysia water? Its wrong. You cant take what does not belong to you, and your comparison is so...childish.
I like what you said that china will not take military action because it affects trade. It is precisely for this reason we should not worry about spratly islands. Only usa thev war monger is interested.

Anonymous said...

Let me teach you something.

The thing is not about the results.

The thing is what are your options available and what decision you are going to make.

Without the army, we can only throw stones or spit saliva like the hongkies. The logic here is if you are going to kill us or made us kneel against the will. I will also make sure you suffer. Now with the cards laid out, do you want to take the risk? This is the old man poison shrimp theory which somehow works.

When Israel was attacked on all fronts by Arabs in 1973, everybody thought it is finished liao. What happen next? If Israel does not have conscript or mobilization concept in place, what do you think will be now? Palestinian can also throw stones.

Who is the childish one here?

Again you only think one sided of why china will not take action but what happens if the results will be the same when US decide to place 60% of navy in Asia. When you enemy starts to stir shit in this area, what would happen to Singapore's trade where so many coys are doing trade...

War monger or not. You same like everybody need to eat and so need to follow the rules of survival.
You know the enemy go stir shit (around china) with the intention of sucking money away (with or without war) and you still fall into the trap of officially offending your neighbors with such horrendous nine dash line that stretch to natuna? Irregardless of the outcome of the war, trade for the whole region will be affected and who will suffer most.



Anonymous said...

You know the enemy go stir shit (around china) with the intention of sucking money away (with or without war) and you still fall into the trap of officially offending your neighbors with such horrendous nine dash line that stretch to natuna?
______________________________________________________________________________________
Singapore also fall into trap and officially offended their neighbor,the largest trade partner, China with their horrendous stance.

Likewise, vietnam and philippine also fall into same trap. They offended their neighbor, China - largest trade partner with their horrendous claim which stretch to China nine dash line?

Anonymous said...

but what happens if the results will be the same when US decide to place 60% of navy in Asia.
______________________________________________________________________________
USA wont even dare to fight in Syria .
USA wont even dare to launch cyber warfare against Russia.

Russia continue to slap US face.
Russia even harass and beat US diplomats in Moscow.

USA are so weak!!!

USA sailors are weeping on Iranian TV.

Anonymous said...

Isn't Kwa Chong Guan, nephew of Kwa Geok Choo, deceased wife of decessed LKY, a racist and a communalist?

What has happened to this tiny group of Straits-Born mixed-bred ancestral-cum-cultural bankrupt people?

First, they put a tag on Chinese Singaporean Voters as Racist. Then they pretended to use a scapegoat called Constitutional Commission for Review of Presidential Election to force all Chinese to accept a Minority President who cannot by his or her own capability be elected as President and needed unfair means through trumped-up legal means to get to the position of President of our Republic. Now they are showing their hands that they are the Masters of Singapore and they speak for all Chinese in Singapore. What ridiculous idiotic arguments!

The majority of Chinese Singaporeans of Chinese Descend will always look up to China as their Motherland, even up to today. This is a hidden feeling which can only arise when there is a serious crisis.

These conceited self-appointed Straits-Born people simply cannot and will not be able to phantom how the Real Chinese Singaporeans feel.

Kwa Chong Guan is selectively using a tiny part of History to spout his nonsensical arguments. The History of the Chinese People last 6,000 years.

And he is also beating a dead horse. Most of the younger generations of Chinese simply cannot associate what happened in the early years of Singapore's Independence.

Moreover, it was the majority of the Chinese British-Subjects who wanted an Independent Singapore from the British Colonial Masters, not the Secluded Self-Important Straits-Born. These Straits-Born merely wanted to lick the balls of the British Masters all the time, even until today, as can be seen through what Kwas Chong Guan wrote as well as the behaviour of Singapore's Leadership and his Foreign Ministers.

What will happen if there is going to be a show-down between China and Singapore? Which side will the Chinese Singaporeans take? Does Kwa Chong Guan really know the hearts and minds of the Chinese People in Singapore? I don't think so.

Anonymous said...

10.58 pm u posted many Long reply and wanted to teach some dude something. Knn after reading so many of your posts I don't know what u are getting at. Can you post a summary what u are driving at and your conclusion? U better don't post Long winded thing that people don't understand then I have to scold you as motherfucker ok?😰😰😰

Anonymous said...

6.01 am I agreed man! Actually globally people identify more with race than country. Example if U are a Chinese sinkie when u are overseas, people will identify u as a Chinese then from Singapore. If China is as weak as she was 100 years ago, u as a Chinese especially going to western countries will be despised. Today as you travel there they have Chinese sign to welcome you. So Knn u tell me lar u wanted a strong and prosperous China or a weak China of 100 years ago. That dude that pro USA will be despised when he goes overseas and face many sign that read no Chinese or dog allowed to enter! The motherfucker does not know that he is where he is today with a full stomach is due to who.

Anonymous said...

Rb //He also sent them to Chinese schools.//


Oh ya hor?

The late Mr and Mrs Lee Kuan Yew (founding PM and couple of Independence Sg) both went to the creme de la creme institution in the sun never set Pax Brtiannica empire: Cambridge Uni.

Both of them sent the adolescent PM Lee and his younger brother (then) to one of the premier, top, creme de la creme Chinese schools in the former crown jewel of the British Empire (the Gilbraltar of the East): Catholic High School.

It was chronicled that once in his younger days, PM Lee fell into the sea near Pasir Panjang area and the late Mrs Lee plunged into the sea, risking her own life instinctively, to save her beloved son.

So for his education, for the late Mr and Mrs Lee to send PM Lee and his younger brother to Catholic High Sch likely means CHS must be damn GOOD lor?

Ai also want to send my offsprings to be educated in CHS if have chance lor

"亲爱忠诚,敬业乐群"

Well Done!

Anonymous said...

Hahaha. Taiwan part of China is an arrogant claim by China and supporters of China. Taiwan has its own history of aboriginal peoples. Time and time again Taiwan was used by refugees and renegades running away from mainland China. These renegades find a new home and China, too lazy to pursue them, claims Taiwan, which is the renegade's safe haven, as part of China! What a laugh!

Imagine there are Japanese renegades who run away from their motherland in Japan and fin safe havens in Macau, HK and Shenzen. Then the Japanese government claims Macau, HK and Shenzen as part of Japan. Ok, with China supporters here? If no, then know that Taiwan is not yours or China's.

Anonymous said...

9.52 am what kind of Knn logic is that. What about USA Canada aust and nz? So the local people reclaim the land and the white moves back to Europe, the blacks to Africa etc is it?

Anonymous said...

@10.01, eh lu kong simi lanchiao wei? Topic about China and Taiwan suddenly you wan to tok about angmorlang. You not happy Amerikaninah and Canidahia, you go fark angmor ass lah. What izit got to do with China and China supporters kong lanchiao wey that Taiwan is part of China?

Lycurgus80ofsparta said...

Taiwan only has like about 3 percent aboriginal people, which means 97 percent Chinese. China only has 90 percent Chinese. Taiwan is more Chinese then PRC! In fact it is the state with the highest percentage of ethnic Chinese.

Anonymous said...

曾经华夏难为国, 除却祖国不是国;
尽忠到老爱祖国, 昼夜心中唯祖国。

Anonymous said...

If you want to talk like that then Tibet Chinese so little, Xinjiang Chinese people so little why China kaypo want to make it part of China? Your idea that if got Chinese there then China can claim it is China's is chauvinistic. Wah, like that you mean to say China can claim Singapore also part of China ah? I told you this site got a lot of China supporters who are willing to betray Singapore. How to trust these China supporters ah?

Let's face it lah. When the Chinese renegades ran away from mainland China, the government of that time in China didn't chase them lah. If that is the case, what right has China to claim Taiwan is theirs?

Anonymous said...

Google translate:

"Once China is difficult for the country, except the motherland is not a country;
Loyalty to the old love the motherland, day and night heart only motherland."

Anonymous said...

Bing translate:

"Once Chinese hard country, apart from the country is not a country;
Dedicated to the old love of the motherland, only the motherland day and night."

Anonymous said...

Lycurgusof80sparta, 3% aboriginals in Taiwan is not excuse to steal aboriginal land. We have self righteous pro China supporters who make helluva noise that White Man stole land from native Americans, who also make up just a small percentage. Why the inconsistency?

Anonymous said...

FArk Bing and google translate. Let me translate

"Once a China supporter, always a China supporter.
Oppress your own people so that they run to another land.
Then claim the land they run to as your land."

Lycurgus80ofsparta said...

I don't support PRC blindly, the Chicoms have discriminated against Chinese in favor of minorities like in the one child policy. Cut lose the tibeteans and the wiggers. And make the core of China an ethno state with right of citizenship to all chinese, especially overseas chinese. Like Israel with the jewish ethnostate.

My loyalty is to my tribe rather then any specific state.

Anonymous said...

Layman translate:

"After transversing the great ancient civilisation China, no other land is greater;
In loyalty till the end the beloved motherland, in the heart the love and longing for the motherland is engraved, eternally."

Anonymous said...

Layman translate:


"After transversing the great ancient civilisation China, no other land is greater;
In loyalty till the end the beloved motherland, in the heart the love and longing for the motherland is engraved, eternally."

Anonymous said...

"曾经华夏难为国, 除却祖国不是国;
尽忠到老爱祖国, 昼夜心中唯祖国。"

Layman translate:

"After transversing the great ancient civilisation China, no other land is greater;
In loyalty till the end the beloved motherland, in the heart the love and longing for the motherland is engraved, eternally."

Anonymous said...

@ October 16, 2016 7:16 am

You worry too much

It is meant for a tortise. That tortise understand very well and since back off. No balls...

As for you, like that also cannot understand. You must be new here and probably did not read any RB or Southern Glory articles. Perhaps you should chose to visit other sites. 烂泥扶不上墙.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1058,
You really childish. How can you compare the case of arab threaten israel with malaysia threaten cut sg water?
You have to understand who owns what. If israel owns the land of course israel defend itself with strong army and israel fight arabs with pride.
But water in Singapore mostly from malaysia frim thr beginning. They are not plundering our resources even if they cut the lines. It is the right of malaysia to do so, it is a trade decision which is influneced by politics. This is totally not same as arab israel conflict. If malaysia stop selling water to sg, and we bomb KL, who is right?
You are really mad. No wonder one writer above said that he will want to use vulgar words on you.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon Oct 16 10:37 am

You sure you translated correctly especially the 1st line?

Anonymous said...

@ October 16, 2016 10:45 am

Wow,you got balls to return.... you keep on switching topics. I guess you must be convince Sg hug the right leg and China treatment of HK and Taiwan brothers.

Since human beings roam earth, there is no need to understand what is what.

Your fist bigger, you say more. Everywhere is the same. Even up till now, Who is there on earth to say who is right or wrong?

You can say whatever you want but at the end of the day, i will move in to take over whole of Johor within 72 hrs (as buffer zone). After that, same like Israel, we will talk about withdrawal from Sinai or Golan heights in exchange for something. In the process of partial withdrawal, whatever can plunder, take it back to Israel while "negotiations" take place.

In any case, what is international condemnation if we would still die without water. Either way also die.

Not to worry about what others say especially down here, Most are sick. Mine is considered mild case. You should see the others.

Anonymous said...

'Anonymous said...

China trying to make an example of us by forcing us to kneel. We must hold 住 ! Shw them we are no push over.

If the rest of ASEAN see this big dragon cannot even subdue this little red dot. When comes whatever negotiation they will have 底气. By then it will be much different.

October 15, 2016 12:18 pm'

Your imagination is from impulsive obsessive behaviour. You have been implanted with the idea that Chna is your enemy, the monster that will appear in your dream every night.

The truth, you are too small to bother China. The one that is squeezing your balls is the Americans. Forced you to take sides, to fight in Iraq, to give them space for military base, to stir the SCS issue and the faked UN tribunal decision. And every day you will bark like a silly dog. You must be having nightmare of China every night.

Anonymous said...

Ha ha ha

Obviously the "budding poet" of that (Chinese) poem knows better?

No?

Anonymous said...

To the anon who claimed tortoise.,
Take a note from the comment above,Quote, The one that is squeezing your balls is the Americans. Forced you to take sides, to fight in Iraq, to give them space for military base, to stir the SCS issue and the faked UN tribunal decision. And every day you will bark like a silly dog. You must be having nightmare of China .." unquote
You are right after all that small innovations like xiaomi and alibaba has little impact on the world compared to the likes of rolls royce et al. However do we not have the balls to not stoop so low as to bow to American pressure and be a pawn in their game? Are we going to throw away our principles and be a sla e to Usa? Plesse think out of the box, as duterte has. He is prepared to reconfigure foreign policy to be pro china pro russia. We are hopelessly brainwashed to think that russia n china arevthe bad guys, usa goodguys. Hilitary clinton suplied arms to ISIS! WHO IS EVIL?

Anonymous said...


You have to understand who owns what. If israel owns the land of course israel defend itself with strong army and israel fight arabs with pride.

Are you so ignorant with what is happening? Muslims (especially the Arabs) says Israel does not exist. In fact, it existed only in 1948? with help of British.

So who there to say who is right or who is wrong?

The one who have the strongest military on earth in this case says it exist. So up till now it exists..... Not only that, itself has also built its army to be no.1 in middle east ever since.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

We have had quite a decent discussion in this thread. Both sides have their views but both supported by bits and pieces of events or history. The rise and fall of civilisation do not respect these little exceptions.

Some events like Taiwan claimed the China seat in the UN for more than 20 years until the US gave up the farce and acknowledged China as the country to represent China and there is only on China. The comparison of the minorities in Taiwan and the USA, one was originally a very small population while the other were terminated by the tens of millions in the worst genocide in the history of mankind. There were the anomalies of Tibet, Xinjiang, what about the anomalies of Canada, USA, Australia, NZ, how to make all these to make sense using one formula or explanation?

My point, we argue and take positions, but is any one view a superior or righteous view? Eventually it will come to the question of who are you and what is in your interests and well being in the long term.

Anonymous said...

@ October 16, 2016 11:38 am

Sigh... you must be still young and naive.

What principles to dictate if you have no money as you need to eat. When you need to bend, you will bend especially for Singapore size.

70% of Sinkies resigned their fate. You must be the other 30% who think otherwise.

Sometimes you asked yourself why Sinkie chinese existed? Because their forefather got nothing better to do want to take boat cruise travel thousands of miles to come here for holiday? or simply come to find money or food? Which idiot would want to make this choice if not force to? Well i can also say they are traitors to motherland to come all the way to Sinkie to work in British Colony who use this as transhipment port to ship opium to sell back to motherland.

duterte is just another guy that wants to sell more bananas at higher price. Nothing else. You see base on his record, which country will believe him? He is not stupid, if he is. He would appease China by retracting pinoy claim on SCS especially on that Hague court case. He also like Singapore wants the best of both worlds. Do you know latest plan is for pinoy to develop its harbor to be a mid point hub for ships travelling to the US west coast via pacific ocean. How can it achieve this if it goes for russia and china?

Again if we need to eat,drink, sleep as a human being (mortal), we are in no position to say who is right or wrong.

Anonymous said...

To anon 16oct 952am
Of course taiwan belong to china. When chiang fled china during those days he smuggled off HUGE quantities of gold and precious antiques to taiwan. That was how he was able to hold the fort, not forgetting american aid. Money talks. The starting seed money which allowed taiwan to grow is come from china people. The prc communists suffered a great deal butbthrough sheer determination and unfortunately ruthless leadership, they managed to survive and build china into a respectable place today. Why is no one recognizing this unjust defence of taiwan and continued condemnation of china as evil???? American foreign policy is the source of all evil. Singaporean hv zero knowledge of history so they make naive comments. History is very important to understand Evil and Good.

Anonymous said...

Yes of course i knew someone would start saying things like israrl not recognised. No doubt there is contention. However there is NO CONTENTION THAT SG WATER COMES FROM SUNGEI TEBRAU And other area of malaysia, the soource is !Malaysia. How can you send an army to fight kl to demand them to sell you THEIR water? You are Hitler or what, dont care invade and plunder other country obvious resource.

Anonymous said...

Well, like you say. You can say whatever you want.

For the time being, i say no. And i move to seize control and carry back whatever i can carry.

Even things like dismantle the parts of what i can find in the industrial estate, senai airport, pasir gudang port....... whatever.

Well my muscle bigger, what can you do? crybaby? I can have the option to choose to do what i want to do. And i am informing you in advance that i have the capability to do it and not just a joke.

Anonymous said...

To tortoise,
You are completely wrong to say 70% of sgs resigned to their fate and chose pap. Out of this 70% probably 50% are direct employees of pap or civil servants. The other half are the new citizens and old people uneducated has no idea of what is going on other than reading poison MSM.
You are also wrong to say that those diaspora chinese forefathers of sg are traitor to china. They came for better employment terms and would send mo ey back and originally planned to return, just like pinoy maids. How can y say they are traitors! How foolish and childidh. You must be very young dude.
Re survival issue, i dont believe there is no solution if we reject usa. It is same foolish thinking, if opposition take over sg, it will plunder all our reserves. I believe there is amiddle road to manoeuvre but our pap is INCAPABLE OF THINKING OUT OF BOX FOR EVERYTHING. You know that.

Anonymous said...

To rb
You are right, the ultimate qn is "who are you"
Singaporean is a figment of imagination. Lhl is stressing us even more with his racism president new policies, we are going back to square one.
Square 1 is we are either chinese, malays or indians. Support you own race motherland, all you motherfuckers in Singapore.

Anonymous said...

@ October 16, 2016 12:16 pm

Again, you and your wishful thinking.

They already got 70% mandate. Better than 2011 results. They do whatever they want until 5 years or so later, while you are slogging away like a crybaby that still trying to figure out how they won and come out with all sorts of self fancy reasons.

While MSM may be poison but on line media is def not a indication of how sinkie thinks. otherwise, they wont win with a landslide.

Think out of the box... Yeah... they are thinking out of the box to win. while you are still stuck in the dreamland of thinking for solution. What solution can you think when you cannot even understand how the world works... Even the olympic gold medal, they are thinking out of the box to share credit.

Regarding forefathers, can you please read with brain on what is in between the lines? Do i need to spoon feed you everytime?

Anonymous said...

RB, are you saying that because the Taiwan aborigines have a small population, the Chinese can screw them, while because the native Americans had a larger population, you can screw the Americans? Where is the logic? It is NOT OK for both China and US. I cannot understand why whenever an issue is brought up against China, China supporters will always, without fail, say that there is a bigger devil in America. Congrats, so you admit that you are also supporting a devil (China), albeit a smaller one!

As for Tibet, Xinjiang, again the “let's bring up the devil of the West” so that we can detract the devil in China argument is brought up! See how China supporters try to worm their way out, but in the mean time unwittingly admit China's guilt?

So the question of who are you and what is your interest, as what you put up. So what is RB's interest in defending China all the way? He has intention to migrate to China and fight to his death should war break out in the region? My interest and concern is that among us Sinkies, there are China supporters who are more filial to China than Singapore! That should be a legit concern, shouldn't it?

Anon 12 pm, you mean to say that because huge amounts of resources was stolen from China and brought into Taiwan, it gives China the right to claim Taiwan as their own? Careful now. Indo corrupt bzmen brought tons of money into Singapore. What now? Willing to say Indo has a right to claim Singapore as part of Indo? See the ridiculous argument China supporters are willing to cook in order to support China?

Again, note the US bashing that you followed up with. Like any other China supporter, you just have to bring up this “angmor man is more evil than China” argument to detract that China is also another devil.

What's with all this Chinophile stuff? I rather see such sinkies give up their passport and migrate to China. Why use up our scarce resource and live off citizens' taxes, only to support another country, even when your own county (Singapore) has a dispute with China?

Anonymous said...

The pap think out of the box to win 2015 byelections and prior? You are really a moron. Everything the son do follow father. Offer upgrade of estate at last minute! Character assassination. Sue. Use the MsM. What think outb of box? Becausebof the fact Singaporean are most self centred people and myopic in the whole world the sg electorate couldnt care less believing it is not their business, because of this reason, they won. Not think out of the box!

Anonymous said...

To anon242
You dont seem to understand politics. Indonesia corrupt business money laundering to sg, is a private matter. It is not nationalist issue whereby the money is used to finance proIndonesia anti Sg activity. Their money is the businessman's personal hoard of cash for his own use individually.
Taiwan chiang stole gold from china banks to build a renegade army and as well some for himself no doubt., and anti chinamainland launching from what is originally china territory. Taiwanese deep inside know that it is part of china. Put it this way, if prc is a Democratic regime, taiwan, even hongkong will be glad to reunite with the motherland. Just because you dont accept the political system, does not nullify the fact that hongkong and Taiwan are historically, culturally CHINA, one race CHINESE. Please learn to separate politics from facts.

Anonymous said...

Win means win...
Talk so much and useless at the end of the day. Typical person that will die with last breath stuck in mouth..Cannot RIP.

Loser mentality... crybaby.

You are so upright... You might as well migrate to heaven. Majority are self center and myopic as we need to eat. Same like those forefathers who come here to find makan.

Ok lor, not think out of the box to win. Then you can change another name. To me it is all the same.

You say it is wrong. Again 70% say it is right...Hahahaa....

Anonymous said...

My dear friend, you cannot say that Singapore has dispute with China because you cannot assume that most people in Singapore agree to the postion of Dictator here. Our political system is not necessarily representative of what the masses really think. Therefore do not ever ever expect that every word out of his mouth we Singaporean must support, and not to do so is betraying the country. The man is not the country.

Anonymous said...

@ October 16, 2016 3:14 pm

Do you know what is 反攻大陆 - KMT slogan。Whose is whose gold, we dont know?

Dont come here and distort history. Like what RB say, Taiwan claimed the China seat in the UN for more than 20 years.

For some time, UN also like huh, WTF?

Anonymous said...

I sympathize with what you say.

However it your own word against the many. Dont worry i help you ask everybody in the next GE whether they agree or not. That should be in 2020 or before?

By then, many things changed liao....You sinkie? you know how our system work? Oh my god, so many sick people here.

Anonymous said...

To 16 oct @314pm
The KMT SLOGAN is just words to stir up anti communist feelings. It has no bearings on the legality of Generalissimo Chiangs plundering of the gold reaserves of china banks, much of which was shipped secretly to taiwan during those years. Chiang govt has a long history of association with Americans and his riches are tied up with american interests in his family and extended family (Soong) in USA.
The communist style may not be the ideal style of government. BUT ONE must gracefully learn to separate politics from facts. Taiwan and hkg is china. Hkg and twn,simply dont like it because of the system of prc's one party politics,(which fortunately has improved tremendously between 1949 to 2016). But that is not an argument.Here is an analogy. Hitler has a son who became a rich businessman in California. One day hitler ask his son to come back to him as he is ill. Can his son say no, i disown you, you are not my father because you are so nasty. Unfortunately the son does not know what he is saying. He cannot change history.

Anonymous said...

@ October 16, 2016 4:05 pm

Why you avoid the UN part. UN recognize KMT as the legit govt for China for 20 years?

What is wrong for KMT govt to take the gold which at them time belong to the legit govt?

Even you go ICJ, also no case.

You see you know nothing about modern china history. The KMT slogan is to consolidate the KMT presence in Taiwan as the legit govt for China. Without such slogan, the whole KMT will collapse as it no longer hold any relevance as far as China is concerned. Even now this thing haunts KMT and DPP is making use of this to the max.

Do you know who is the fore father of KMT? What is this guy relevance in Commie history?

Your analogy is correct provided Hitler is not the step father or this son is the legit son. Now in HK and Taiwan case, both are saying let me choose my way of life as i have grown up. The more you tighten the grip, the more i rebel. At the end of the day, you force me to kneel. I make sure everybody in the whole neighborhood know that you ill treat and abuse your son and i need social service to protect son from father abuse.... You want me to come back, you talk nicely.


Anonymous said...


Chinese are also native in Taiwan.
They and aboriginal people share same status.

Just like European people in Europe continental claim British Isle, Greece island, Denmark island as theirs. They are native there.

Just like Indonesian people claim 10,000 islands as theirs. They are native.
Just like Filipino people claim 70000 islands as theirs. They are native.

According to your lopsided logic, Indonesian people are not native in 9999 islands. Because they came mostly from Java island.

Filipino in Luzon are not native in other Filipino islands. They are Foreigner.LOL

On the other hand, European people migrate to another continent.
Hence, there are distinction between them- foreigner and native.

Anonymous said...

When French people migrate to Sweden or Portugal or Spain or Italy, they are still European people. - The native.

No idiot disputed their status and call them as foreigner /invader because they did not originate from point A or They merely move from Point A to Point B .

There are migration of people from European continental to those nearby islands .- British isles, Denmark island, Greece islands etc...

The law did not say that they are not native in those islands.

Anonymous said...

Careful now. Indo corrupt bzmen brought tons of money into Singapore. What now? Willing to say Indo has a right to claim Singapore as part of Indo
____________________________________________________________________________
Those money does not belongs to Indonesia govt.
Indonesia businessmen created those wealth with their own hardwork.
They did not stole from Indonesia govt funds.
Without them, those money wont exist in the first place.

Secondly, they are rich Indonesia businessman. It does not meant that they are corrupt. Corruption only exist because the govt encourage such practice. Many ordinary people are forced to give bribe.

Thirdly, these Indonesian people follow Singapore law and international norm when they put their money into Singapore. This is a legal transaction.

Most importantly, they are refugees because Indonesia persecuted and discriminated against them. They did not fled Indonesia because they commit crime.









Anonymous said...

Let us look at the ridiculous arguments of the China lackey supporters (CLS).

CLS: “Taiwan chiang stole gold from china banks to build a renegade army and as well some for himself no doubt.”

Reply: Well if that gold is so important, why didn’t China go after the renegades? Why so lazy, sit back and relax, then say to the world, “Hey, Taiwan is ours because our crooks landed there”?

CLS: “you cannot say that Singapore has dispute with China because you cannot assume that most people in Singapore agree to the postion of Dictator here”

Reply: Sg has dispute with China not bcos we agree with PAP. Sg has dispute because our gahmen disagrees with China gahmen. But China supporters in Sinkieland are now supporting China. Why so traitor one?

CLS: “Chinese are also native in Taiwan. They and aboriginal people share same status.”

Reply: So bloody what? How does that make Taiwan part of China? But actually you are not totally right. Taiwanese aborigines have a different culture, language and customs. This is the funny part. China supporters claim this society and that society is Chinese. Tibet is Chinese, Uighur is Chinese, Taiwan native is Chinese blah, blah, blah. Then why all speak different language and have different customs. So China supporters say Chinese has many ethnic and different cultures. Good. So when Peranakans practice different culture, China supporters scream “Banana! Chap Cheng!”!

Hahahahaa. China supporters are so fickle. Suka suka want to make everyone Chinese but cannot accept that when they are different. The real reason they claim everyone Chinese is because they want to steal other people’s lands.

CLS: “Those money does not belongs to Indonesia govt.
Indonesia businessmen created those wealth with their own hardwork.”

Reply: You are bloody wrong. Very, very wrong. Those are corrupt money taken from Indo govt. Sg harbours and launders those funds. That is why pres of Indo now makes it that if these corrupt people declare and bring money back to Indo, they will have to pay only small tax and be forgiven for their tax evasion. Didn’t you know MAS and Sg gahmen panicked after that because tons of money now flowing out of Sinkie back to Indo?

Here is the conclusion. It is a farce when China claims Taiwan is theirs. China made no attempt to go after the renegades who fled to Taiwan. Like I mentioned, imagine a group of Jap renegades running from Japan and settle down in HK, Macau and Shenzen. These renegades then call Macau, HK and Shenzen Republic of Japan, which no one recognises accept US. Meanwhile Japan makes no attempt to go after these renegades. Later, Japan says Macau, HK and Shenzen part of Japan. Can accept or not?

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:42 pm seems to have been thinking a lot and has a lot of questions to ask RB.

i also have been thinking a lot about why he thinks RB owes him an explanation and must answer to him. I can only guess he has something personal against RB. Is it because it got something to do with his wife? Is it because his wife has something to do with RB?

Oh I forgot, his wife died already. So why still bugging RB about his wife and RB's affair? why? Tell me why, tell us why?

Anonymous said...

Oi Anon 8:26, you just escaped from IMH?
Why are you talking to yourself?
You better take your medicine.

RB, I protest, sickos not allowed in your blog.

Anonymous said...

The pro-China trolls are now desperately trying to distract that they have no defence to counter the point that the Taiwan claim by China is nothing but a farce. Keep trolling, keep lolling. It shows that you have no idea how to tackle the truth that China has no basis to claim Taiwan!

Lycurgus80ofsparta said...

I rather the old school KMT came back to power in Taiwan and retake China. It is advantageous for Taiwan and China to have political unity. Since You would have a bigger country both in population and in geography. You would have more bargaining power in trade deals and military alliances.

Anonymous said...

Like I mentioned, imagine a group of Jap renegades running from Japan and settle down in HK, Macau and Shenzen. These renegades then call Macau, HK and Shenzen Republic of Japan, which no one recognises accept US. Meanwhile Japan makes no attempt to go after these renegades.
______________________________________________________________________________________
These refugees can't enter the country and live there without the permission of a local govt.

It is very different from Taiwan case.

Anonymous said...

How does that make Taiwan part of China? But actually you are not totally right. Taiwanese aborigines have a different culture, language and customs. This is the funny part. China supporters claim this society and that society is Chinese. Tibet is Chinese, Uighur is Chinese, Taiwan native is Chinese blah, blah, blah. Then why all speak different language and have different customs.
______________________________________________________________________________________
it seems that you dont understand the statement - "the Chinese are native "

So does Singaporean people. They have different language, culture and custom.
They belongs to one nation. These different ethnic groups are native Singaporean,not FT.

Peranakan also belongs to same category -ethnic Chinese group under SIngaporean law.
There are no ethnic minorities in China known as " peranakan"

Tibetan and Uyghur minorities dont exist in Singapore as ethnic Chinese group because they dont live in Singapore.

Anonymous said...

Those are corrupt money taken from Indo govt. Sg harbours and launders those funds. That is why pres of Indo now makes it that if these corrupt people declare and bring money back to Indo, they will have to pay only small tax and be forgiven for their tax evasion. Didn’t you know MAS and Sg gahmen panicked after that because tons of money now flowing out of Sinkie back to Indo?
________________________________________________________________________________
Are you a traitor? Because you are Indon supporter. You demonise Singapore govt .

You insulted Singapore and Mas govt for helping these oppressed rich Indonesian people to protect their wealth from corrupt Indonesia govt.

Anonymous said...

9.51, so what you are saying is that China has a right to steal Taiwan because at that time, the aborigines had no government? Cool. But China supporters make hell a lot of noise when angmor stole red man's land even red man had no government! Why the inconsistent argument?

I tell you why the inconsistent argument. China supporters and China have no basis to claim Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang. They only make up excuses here and there. Just like for claim on Spratly. Any argument fit them, just hantam. Then when you tell them that the argument they use can also be applied to the angmor, the stun like vegetable, donno what to reply, then troll, troll, troll.

Not that I am saying Taiwan should be returned to the natives. I am saying that China and China supporters should not be willy nilly suka suka claim this their land that their land, or this their seaspace that their seaspace. Respect the rule of others and stop acting like a bully. China is no different from America except that America is 200 yrs ahead of China in the bullying.

Anonymous said...

CNA: Thousands of hardline Muslims rallied in Jakarta on Friday in protest against the city's ethnic Chinese and Christian governor, further fuelling ethnic tensions ahead his re-election bid in February.

MAS and Sg gahmen panicked after that because tons of money now flowing out of Sinkie back to Indo? ????

Hahhahah

Keep on dreaming!!!! SG remain a safe haven for these people to protect their wealth.

Anonymous said...

anonymous 10.04- Chinese are native in Taiwan.

European are native in British isles. Nobody accuse them for illegally occupying British isles and oppress native islanders.

European are not native in Red Indian homeland. European visit a new continent, akin to Alien come to conquer our planet earth.

USA dont belongs to European. Taiwan belongs to Chinese, in same manner that Luzon belongs to Filipino people.

Anonymous said...

The struggle between KMT and Mao is well known. It is unrealistic for mao army to cross over to prosecute kmt when kmt had the first mover advantage after shipping all the gold and set up defense lines together with american aid, in formosa island. Mao still has to consolidate his power back in mainland and regroup after years of hardship deaking with kmt and Japanese and it certainly was not because he was "lazy" to chase after an almost lost course.formosa is very quickly well fortified with money suport plus American help, it is safe haven for kmt at that point in time. You get it?

Anonymous said...

U mean Sinkie is a safe haven for corrupt people to launder and safekeep their ill-gotten wealth. As for the money drain, it works about 12% of laundered money being in Sg returning to Indo. That is more than $1 billion dollars of dirty money out of our country back to the rightful owners so far, which is Indo - http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/indonesians-declare-s-12-2b-of-singapore-assets-under-tax/3133308.html

More money is expected to be drained - "There is an estimated US$200 billion (S$273.52 billion) worth of assets held by Indonesians in Singapore, and about US$40 billion of this could go back to Indonesia through the tax amnesty programme."

You find that funny?

Anonymous said...

Respect the rule of others and stop acting like a bully. China is no different from America except that America is 200 yrs ahead of China in the bullying.
_________________________________________________________________________________
USA fighter jet enter Syrian airspace without the permission of Syria govt.
USA fighter jet bombed and killed 62 Syria army inside Syrian soil

Who should Stop acting like a bully and respect the rule?

Who is supporting US while advocating for rule based order?

Anonymous said...

You should come off this talk that China had no resource against the renegades in Taiwan. It truly is a case they did not put enough effort. After all, didn't they fight tooth and nail in the Korean War, which was also financed and supported by US? China was just too happy to have gotten rid of the renegades then. It just so happened that Taiwan economy grew and now China wants that delicious cake baked by the hardworking Taiwanese, unlike the fat lazy pigs in the CCP. As usual, China is a greedy bully, second to only the Evil Empire of America.

Anonymous said...

U mean Sinkie is a safe haven for corrupt people to launder and safekeep their ill-gotten wealth.
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Singapore is a safe haven for people to protect their legitimate wealth from tyrant and oppressive govt because Singapore does enjoy rule of law.

Those money belongs to them,not Indonesia govt. Those people are not Ex Indonesia official.

They earn those money legally by their own effort.
They created those wealth.

The dictator govt try to confiscate their wealth.

Lycurgus80ofsparta said...

China has always stood by the one country principle. The old KMT under Chiang also followed the one country principle. It is only the DPP and the new guys who wants independence. Its Taiwan that has flip floped not China.

Anonymous said...

To all who thinks that Sinkie gahmen is so white, so clean there is no corrupt money in our banks. Pls remember that we laughed at 1MDB, only to find out that much of that dirty money is in our banks! Monetary Auth of Sg now tries to play goody, goody by naming the guilty banks. But how the fug did the money come here in the first place? Dont' all banks have the policy if you have huge sums you need to do due diligence, which includes alerting MAS???? Eh?

As for corrupt money from Indo, it was George Yeo who argued in parliament why we should keep the dirty money! It was reported all over the news! Indo's reaction? Remember the sand ban? Ah, how quick Sinkies forget the ills of Sinkieland, while laughing at the ills of our neighbours!

Sinkiepore is not called the "Swiss of the East" for nothing you know. We are known for harbouring and laundering funds the way the Swiss do it in the West.

Anonymous said...

Ya, ya, of course China has stood for the one China policy all along. They want HK to be theirs. Macau to be theirs. Taiwan to be theirs. Tibet to be theirs. Xinjiang to be theirs. Spratly to be theirs. South China Sea to be theirs. Yes, yes, One China Policy! Never mind others don't agree. Greedy, no?

Anonymous said...

Natuna island , Batam, Bintam only belongs to Indon because they invaded them, like they did to East Timor nation. Those islands is much closer to Singapore than the coast of Jakarta.

East Timor people only successfully get half of territory back.
West Timor land is still belongs to Indonesia.

Anonymous said...

Indonesia claim 10,000 islands . Greedy no? Never mind others dont agree?

Indonesia even claim those islands sit next to Singapore - Bintam, Batam, Kariumum, Natuna - whole Riau Lingga archipelago. - Do they ask Singapore?

Are you Indon Supporter?

Anonymous said...

10.34, ya, so? Are you saying that just because others do it, it is OK for China to do it too? So now that you stop hantaming US and the West, you find another one to hantam so that everyone will forget China's bully boy tactics?

Again, are you not implicitly agreeing that China is a bully boy, second to US, but way ahead of Indonesia?

Btw, Batam Bintam invaded? Kong simi lanchiao wey? Suck China cock too much?

Anonymous said...

Remember the sand ban? Ah, how quick Sinkies forget the ills of Sinkieland, while laughing at the ills of our neighbours!
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Indonesia is bullying Singapore. This is real bullying - sand ban. Get it!!!

Anonymous said...

This Indo argument is a side issue. It was brought up by another anon to justify why China had a right to claim Taiwan, which is the renegades ran away with gold into the island. My rebuttal was that if that is the case, Indo can claim Sing is part of Indo because corrupt guys ran away with Indo's billions into Sing.

Now no matter how much we argue about Indo, it doesn't change the fact that China did not make any effort to pursue the renegades into Taiwan. Yet today, they want to claim Taiwan is theirs!

So what if Indo bully Sing? It has nothing to do with China making a farcical claim on Taiwan. Btw, the sand band was a REACTION to Sing's refusal to extradite the corrupt Indonesians to Indo, as well as the refusal to return the corrupt money to them. George Yeo argued why that should be so in parliament! Could hardly call the sand ban bullying when it was Sing who's protecting these wanted criminals and keeping the ill money too!

Anonymous said...

Sinkiepore is not called the "Swiss of the East" for nothing you know. We are known for harbouring and laundering funds the way the Swiss do it in the West.
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Money laundering is illegal in Singapore.

It just demonstrate that foreign investors have high confidence towards Singapore financial system and legal system. The term " Swiss of the East" is a compliment. People prefer to keep their money in a clean Singapore than a corrupt nation.
It created ample job opportunities in Singapore.

Anonymous said...

Basically if a piece of land has majority race of type A, the leader of Such race calls the shots, and can say the land is theirs either by force like british migrants etc, did to red indians in america, or by conscious reconstruction of a new entity like what lky did to create the imaginary country of "Singapore " made of majority chinese but he would kindly not associate with china to be fair to the minorities in sg.

In taiwan case, the original inhabitants were racially more Philippine or malay stock races. Techincally Taiwan belong to Philippine or even malaysia! However in 17th century many Han chinese arrived in taiwan and soon became the majority race, the original pple there became 2nd class aborigines!
Because of the principal mentioned in para 1, Taiwan became part of which ever party that rules the Han race, since the aborigines made no resistance, and neither were they brutally massacred like American red indians. Therefore because political power of Han chinese of mainland are fully recognised recognised in UN as PRC since 4 years after Generalissimo died,in 1971, it is a legitimate claim of course that taiwan is part of china mainland. If you disagree, then you would have to conclude that taiwan belong to Philippine and malaysia. Very simple.

Anonymous said...

anony 10.52

If those people commit crime in Indones - taking corruption, why didnt Indonesia send share evidence with Singapore govt? Indonesia refuse to do so.

Let say China is making a farcial claim on Taiwan. It has nothing to do with Singapore.

Could hardly call those rich Indonesia man as "corrupted indonesian ." when they did not break any law. They are not former Indonesia official. They did not steal those money from govt funds.


Anonymous said...

anony 11.01.

Technically, they come from Taiwan. Taiwanese could claim Philippine and rest of Southeast Asian region as theirs.

or we can conclude that they are " illegal" immigrant from Taiwan to Southeast Asian.

Anonymous said...

Money laundering is illegal in Singapore. Correct. But it happens very often in Singapore! Is 1MDB money dirty? Yes? But it is in Singapore! ?????? How the heck did it get in? In Singapore, if large amounts of money comes in, banks must do due diligence including alerting MAS. So what exactly happened? Did the banks just quietly accepted it? Did MAS after being alerted OKed it? To all those who still believe Sing is as white and the bottom half of our national flag, explain the above.

As for corrupt Indo funds, G Yeo argued in parliament why we should not repatriate the corrupt Indo citizens back to Indo. Which also meant that we were not going to return that corrupt money back to Indo. His argument is that... we have no extradition treaty with Indo. Ha ha ha. So you mean you then can allow these criminals refuge on our shores? You mean you then can keep that dirty money in our shores? Hey, but money laundering is illegal! Yet, yet, yet....... BG Yeo argued as if it was legal! ????

Come off it lah. America portrays itself as white as angel. China as well. Sing as well. Then we all laugh at the corrupt practices of our neighbours. But when it comes to the real deal, we are just as corrupt.

As for why bzmen keep money in Sg, it is more than just stability. Sg has a non-transparent policy that any crook loves to have. Keep your money safe safe from your country's gahmen IRA so no need to declare tax mah. Even America and Euro are fuming with our non-transparency. Not that they are angels btw. It is because they lose money on taxes lah - and PAP gahmen get to keep it lah. That's why they cowpeh. You angry or not if your neighbour hide your money and dowan to give back to you? Same for America, Euro and Indo lah!

Come on. Know your facts.

Anonymous said...

There cant be two china, UN agree that decades ago. For those who believe taiwan dont belong china mainland, you saying mainland china must belong to Taiwan. Ok for me if UN agree.

Anonymous said...

annoy 11.08

Are you a traitor now? because you support Indonesia govt. You hate Singapore govt.

Would you give up Singapore passports and migrate there ? You see yourself as " ethnic " bla bla....

Pleas apply same standard to yourself. Practice what you preach ( you set those standard)

Anonymous said...

11.01, the reason for Sg refusal to repatriate the corrupt guys to Indo is not that Indo did not give evidence. The reason sited by SG govt, after BG Yeo yakked in parliament is...... we have no extradition treaty with Indo. Tada! So we get to give these criminals refuge and at the same time the criminals give us their dirty money to keep! Tada!

Don't be naive lah.

Anonymous said...

11.15, kong simi lanchiao wey? Where I got support Indo? I said that Sg corrupt because we are corrupt. You mean keeping corrupt money is good? Kong lanchiao wey, ah?

Anonymous said...

Anon 1115 idiot, stop using emotional word like traitor. Indonesia has a right to create amnesty rule to reclaimed laundered money park in Singapore banks. As a loyal Singaporean i also do not oppose such reasonable action of Indonesian . I am not a traitor. A traitor is someone who does harm to his own country for personal gain. Go back to school you foolish man.

Anonymous said...

those money is not dirty. The money comes from legal sources. Those people did not break any law.

These people are not former Indonesia official.
Thus, they did not steal those money from Govt funds.

Anonymous said...

11.22, don't try to sneak your way out. There two types of money from Indo to Sg. One, the honest one. Two, the dishonest one. You bloody know that I mean the second one, so don't fark with me pretending you mean the first one.

Unless of course you support dirty money but pretend to be white.

Anonymous said...

Singapore has a right to reject Indonesia request because there are no extradition between two nation.

Singapore have absolute reason to believe that those charge is politically motivated.

Indonesia fail to prove beyond reasonable doubt that those money is illegal . Indonesia dont share those evidence with Singapore.

Singapore is a tiny nation. Singapore cant say No to Indonesia?

Anonymous said...

11.25. What is the dirty money? please explain

How do you distinguish between a clean money and dirty money without any evidences?

Anonymous said...

If those people are former Indonesia official or the relative/family/ wife of Indonesia official,

Arguably,those money could been illegal- they are corrupt. They stole money from govt.

However, it dont apply in this case.

Anonymous said...

Indo give no evidence? Says who? You? The OFFICIAL REASON GIVEN by Sg parliament is NO EXTRADITION TREATY, NOT....I REPEAT.... NOT NO EVIDENCE!

Pleeeze, stop constructing non-facts and presenting them as facts.

Agreed. Sg has right not to extradite the criminals because there is no such treaty.

But you mean we can be complicit in criminal activity by giving them safe haven and holding their dirty money?

But, but, but we have a law against laundering!

So we break no law with Indo by not extraditing the criminals.

But we break our OWN LAW pertaining to laundering because we ARE laundering.

Indo fund is not just the only one.

What about 1MDB?

What about all the other funds US and Euro are complaining about?

Come on. I support our gahmen. But not whent it is complicit in immoral activities, including breaking its own law on laundering.

Anonymous said...

I cannot fathom how some can blindly say that it is because Indonesia did not produce evidence, that's why Singapore did not extradite them, when Singapore government itself never made that claim. Let us look closely at the official reason by the Singapore government - ie no extradition treaty.

Now, if truly Singapore was not convinced with the claim they are criminals, why even talk about extradition treaty? The argument there is no such treaty would only come when there is criminal evidence and you tell Indonesia you don't want to repatriate them because you have no treaty. But if truly there is no evidence, why the need to cite the lack of such treaty? Just say no evidence. But the official reason is no treaty!

Blind commentators who cannot think. Please relook your position.

Anonymous said...

But we break our OWN LAW pertaining to laundering because we ARE laundering.
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Singapore enjoy rule of law.
Singapore is also a clean nation. - with less corruption in whole Asia.

your allegation that Singapore break their own law is very weak.

Anonymous said...

But we break our OWN LAW pertaining to laundering because we ARE laundering.
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This could only happen in authoritarian or dictatorship nation. They dont enjoy rule of law and independent judiciary.

They abused the law to suppress own dissident. They jailed political enemy.

If Singapore does that, Singapore would not become financial center in the East.Foreign investors wont park their money in Singapore.

Anonymous said...

Singapore is the choice of money launderers from many countries. What makes Singapore so attractive is that you can park your money in Singapore from the prying eyes of your own respective governments to avoid paying tax. This amount is HUGE, which runs in the billions.

Many first world country promote themselves as a "safe financial centre". But that is the irony. While 'safe' to the layman means safekeeping, 'safe' to the rich corrupt tax evaders means safe from the eyes of the IRA.

Lastly, 'safe' to the money launderers means safe enough to be used as legal money after being laundered.

Don't anyhow blindly believe the story of first world nations.

patriot said...


Singapore is a very clean country cos it is run by incorruptible Rulers. This is NOT just the Claim of the Sin Rulers and some Sinkies themselves, it is often cited by leaders and celebrities of other nations, including those adek beradeks from Indonesia and Malaysia.
One Ex Indonesian Female President is a frequent visitor to Sin. lt goes to show how good Indo and Sin relationship is.

Sinkies must be proud that when Sin Rulers visit Indonesia, they are receive with the Highest Respect.

The Rule of Law and the lncorruptible Sin Rulers are World Renowned and have stand the test of time; at least up to now.

Sinkies are in good hands.


patriot



Anonymous said...

Why so many of you waste so much time arguing with a nut from IMH?
Just ignore him and let him talk to himself and go deeper into insanity.

Anonymous said...


Both side sparing with their points.

People wasting his time.

Why you kay po? and talk with NO points. who is wasting whose time?

Anonymous said...

Hi guys, note how ozzie blows his top whenever his identity is uncovered and shows he is the cyber criminal who harasses women and girls on the internet.

Anonymous said...

Giant jade stone worth up to US$170m discovered in Myanmar
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/giant-jade-stone-worth-up-to-us-170m-discovered-in-myanmar/3211488.html

"Did you see that? Let's claim Myanmar as China's!" - fat greedy official from the CCP to another fat greedy official, also from the CCP.