7/16/2014

IF HDB owns the HDB flat and the land it sits on.

‘IF HDB owns the HDB flat and the land it sits on.
When we "buy" our HDB flats.
Why do we pay for cost of land+cost of construction?’
 

This phrase was posted by an anonymous blogger as a comment in my blog. Does this ring a bell? All HDB dwellers bought a 99 year lease on the flat from HDB at a price that the govt said is very affordable. Affordable means how much one can afford to pay and does not take into consideration the real value of the flat or the cost of building it. The affordable concept is all about how much the buyer has in his pocket, or in his CPF.
 

How is the price computed and what is the cost of building the flat is TOP SECRET, guarded closely by the govt. After years of barraging the govt, all the people got was a stone wall. The govt that prides itself for transparency and demanding everyone to be transparent would not be transparent on the cost of building a flat. Any hypocrisy?
 

The govt has also finally admitted in Parliament that at the end of 99 years, the flat will go back to the govt as it is on a lease. The question is whether the price of the flat, the lease, consists of the lease for use of the flat and the lease on the land it sits? If this includes the lease of the land, then how is this price? Is it based on the sale of the land for 99 years or the lease of the land for 99 years?
 

And as rightly pointed out by many, if the lease of the HDB flat is for the use of the flat, why are the lessee made to pay property tax, made to pay for maintenance and upgrading of a property that does not belong to them? If the property is run down, shouldn’t the owner of the property and the land be the one to pay for its refurbishing? Windows falling off, ceiling leaking etc, whose responsibility?
 

There are many issues to be addressed, who owns the land, who owns the flat, who is supposed to pay for property tax, who is supposed to pay for refurbishing and upgrading of the property and its surrounding?
Who is the real owner? Would the MPs ask these questions in Parliament and would the govt admit that it is the actual owner of the land and the flat?


Kopi Level - Green

33 comments:

Anonymous said...

“What’s wrong with collecting more money?”
Lee Kuan Yew

http://sgtalk.org/mybb/Thread-Ngiam-Tong-Dow-had-a-big-fight-with-Lee-Kuan-Yew-over-COE

Anonymous said...

Under a PAP government;
- the priority is to collect more money
- rather than spend money to benefit Singaporeans

Anonymous said...

Perhaps Roy and HH could add on this subject too

The said...

/// ‘IF HDB owns the HDB flat and the land it sits on.
When we "buy" our HDB flats.
Why do we pay for cost of land+cost of construction?’ ///

I think this comment is silly. Yes, it has been bandied about in many blogs.

Some are saying we don't own the HDB flats because it is 99-year leasehold.

The same can be said of the multi-million (some are worth tens of millions) bungalows on Sentosa.

The test of whether you are owner or leasee is whether you can sell your property.

Why single out HDB flats. What about the numerous private sector condos and landed properties which are on 99-year leaseholds? Do you only pay for the cost of construction only?

Anonymous said...

Don't be daft lah.
If HDB pays for maintenance and property tax, it will find nany ways to get back much more from its' tenants. Lanpar parlan, what's the difference? For all you know, the tenants get fleece more terok(badly).

Anonymous said...

Hdb always say must maintain window. New window at bto will rust. Nowadays contractor dont even use this kind of window. Hdb is wasting money employing talent at Hdb research center at woodlands. So after many years rust, who pay money change. If window drop, who go jail? We are in La La Land. On top like that, below also like that. So can't blame common ppl complain when on top ppl are complacent about policies.

Anonymous said...

/// The test of whether you are owner or leasee is whether you can sell your property. ///

Bullshit.
The REAL test of whether you are owner or leasee is whether -
(a)Your children can inherit your HDB flat without needing HDB's permission
(b)whether you can rent out your HDB flat without seeking HDB's permission

(c)whether you can sell your entire HDB block of flats in an en bloc sale to a private property developer without seeking HDB's permission.

Well.
Can you?
I say you can't because I have checked.

Anonymous said...

/// The test of whether you are owner or leasee is whether you can sell your property. ///

I forgot to mention.
If you are the owner, you can sika, suka sell your HDB flat to anybody.
- You don't need HDB's approval.

Your buyer does not have to meet HDB's regulations.
So a Singaporean single aged 22 years old of any race can buy any HDB resale flat he wants from anybody.

Anonymous said...

A 99 year leasehold is not the same as a 99 year lease.

For example
- you can give a 99 year leasehold property to your 8 year old son.

- your 8 year old son cannot inherit your 99 year HDB lease from you.
- The 8 year old son is a minor who cannot enter into a leasing contract with HDB (the owner).

The said...

/// Well.
Can you?
I say you can't because I have checked. ///

So, there are one million fools in Singapore who paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for rental flats, cannot do this and cannot do that. Hope you are not one of them.

c said...

some fools might be richer than you.

Anonymous said...

Lucky I own a freehold property so I not affected by all these very complicated scheme at hdb

b said...

The owner has always been the gov. Only the people are so naive to believe that they own the flats despite all the t&cs attached to the flat. At most the people are only leasing or renting the flat. Certain type did own - those PRs who sold their flats and return home with the profits from the sale proceeds.

Anonymous said...

/// So, there are one million fools in Singapore who paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for rental flats, cannot do this and cannot do that. Hope you are not one of them.///
July 16, 2014 12:48 pm

What can I say?

Signed Yours Truly
Lee Con You

The said...

/// At most the people are only leasing or renting the flat. Certain type did own - those PRs who sold their flats and return home with the profits from the sale proceeds. ///

Wait, I thought you said they are not owners? How can they sell their flats?

b said...

Can sell so long as can con - does not mean you need to own just like ponzi scheme, MLM etc. The test of ownership is whether significant risks and rewards are being passed over. There are just too many 'cannots' in a HDB lease agreement.

Anonymous said...

/// Wait, I thought you said they are not owners? How can they sell their flats? ///
July 16, 2014 3:21 pm

Why not?
A lease is a contract.
The terms & conditions is whatever is agreed upon between the lessee and lessor (HDB).

I think "The" is revealing himself to be a member of the PAP Internet Brigade.
The status of "our" HDB flats is a time bomb that no PAP politician wants to explain.

Anonymous said...

Just remember.
PAP government owns & control 90% of the land in Singapore.
So you are negotiating the price, and terms & conditions of your property with a monopoly.

So how to get a more favourable deal from the PAP government over "your" HDB flat?
- Vote Opposition lah!

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Take a look forward, in 50 years time when batch by batch of HDB flats hit 99 years and thousands and thousands of folks have to return their flats to the govt.

The govt can only try to delay this date by SERS. It is unlikely that it would be able to do more than 2o% or 30% of the flats.

What would be the picture be like?

The said...

/// I think "The" is revealing himself to be a member of the PAP Internet Brigade.
The status of "our" HDB flats is a time bomb that no PAP politician wants to explain. //

You obviously don't know me from Adam.

So, all those 99-year lease hold private properties - time bomb too? What about those $30m 99-year bungalow on Sentosa - Mother of All Bomb?

The said...

/// The govt can only try to delay this date by SERS. ///

Exactly. Actually, more than a delay. It is a solution. Just keep doing SERS when the 99-year is about to expire. They are actually SERSing way before the half way mark.

Likewise, the private sector is avoiding this issue by doing en-bloc sale.

My point is - HDB 99-year is no different from private sector 99-year lease, except the public sector imposes some extra rules, like ethnic quota, family unit, salary ceilings etc.

Funny thing is I have posted here so many comments that are not flattering to the power that be, but for pointing out some silly comments, I am thought to be from some IB.

Anonymous said...

/// So, all those 99-year lease hold private properties - time bomb too? What about those $30m 99-year bungalow on Sentosa - Mother of All Bomb? ///

We are talking about HDB flats.
These are leases.
Don't change the subject.

Anonymous said...

/// My point is - HDB 99-year is no different from private sector 99-year lease, except the public sector imposes some extra rules, like ethnic quota, family unit, salary ceilings etc. ///
July 16, 2014 5:09 pm

You mad ah?
Calling a HDB lessee to be on level (pari passu) with an owner of a 99 year leasehold property.

Been drinking too much PAP koolaid for far too long.

Anonymous said...

Ha ha!
Wonder who is the mad one and who is smoking

Anonymous said...

Mr koolaid, go ask a lawyer whether your 99-yr leasehold condo is still yours after 99 years.

Anonymous said...

@ July 16, 2014 8:16 pm AND
July 16, 2014 8:36 pm

So now we know.
This is a sensitive topic for PAP.

Anonymous said...

Singaporeans "own" our HDB flats .... just like CPF money is "our" money.

Anonymous said...

Hey "The"
Where are you?
I'm calling you out.
I want to eat PIG meat sandwich this morning.
Nothing is more cowardly than a PIG pretending to be a patriotic Singaporean.

The said...

/// July 17, 2014 7:34 am ///

Grow up, little boy. What is this name calling all about? Running out of arguments? School holidays are over, so better hit your books instead of making a fool of yourself here by your ignorance.

Ask yourself - is that $30 million 99-year bungalow on Sentosa that the billionaire bought still his after the expiry of 99 years?

When you passed your PSLE later this year, try to pass your "O" and "A" levels as well, and then try to take Economics 101 if and when you manage to get into university. Then look up the concept of "opportunity cost".

The land that HDB build its flats can be used for building private condos. Do you expect Far East of City Development to price their 99-year condo only on construction costs and not include land cost?

Anonymous said...

Ah! It's "The".
@ July 17, 2014 9:47 am

The PAP double agent who wants to influence Singaporeans by pretending to be a Singaporean patriot.

Don't let this double dealing PAPig fool you.
He will talk about anything but will not directly talk about HDB flats and you the Singaporean who is a HDB lessee.

Think about it.
HDB is the owner of HDB flats.
90% of Singaporeans "own" HDB flats.
Thus, Singapore has one of the lowest home ownership rates in the world at 10%.

Right now "The" is doing his best to salvage his patriotic Singaporean online identity.
Expose him wherever you find him by linking your readers back to this thread.

The said...

Wow - clever boy - conspiracy theory. The only thing you are exposing is your own stupidity and ignorance. BTW, who is forcing you to buy HDB flats? Why not buy freehold private properties?

Why buy something you do not own?

As I said, go back to your books, especially economic books and you might learn a thing or two.

Anonymous said...

@ The @ July 17, 2014 11:32 am
/// BTW, who is forcing you to buy HDB flats? ///

ANSWER:
PAP government owns & controls 90% of the land in Singapore.
Singaporeans are "forced" because of PAP government's monopolistic control of land to "buy" HDB flats.

/// Why not buy freehold private properties? ///

ANSWER:
- Most Singaporean citizens cannot afford freehold properties.
- That is why PAP Ministers have to be millions in salary
- so that they can afford to buy freehold properties AND pay their membership fees to PAP
- so what is PAP Minister's membership fee versus PAP grassroots membership fees?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi guys, let's call this quits. No need to quarrel over some differences in opinions.

BTW, 23 Aug, kopi on me, IB or no IB all welcome.