8/12/2016

The case for restrictive laws for sub judice

This troubling development to this cosmopolitan city where everyone in any position of authority is deemed a super talent, some even think they are immortals, is quite uncalled for really. The assumptions for such laws came at a time when the judges and legal officers were quite ordinary in a way, like lay people, easily swept off their feet by public opinions. And there was this jury system where the jurors were common lay persons that were even easier to listen to the winds, with very light ears and did not have a mind of their own.

We have abolished the juror system, so this problem with lay persons making legal decisions is no longer a problem. We now have eminent and learned judges making legal decisions, very fine men and women with very fine training and education, people who think law and definitely cannot be influenced by lay persons writing their opinion pieces in the social media. Or would they? The main media would definitely not utter rubbish to influence the judgment in court when a case is in proceeding.

Read this again for the reasons for sub judice laws, ‘Both statutory and common law contempt of court are concerned with the possibility that a juror, witness or lay judge may be influenced by material which is published about active legal proceedings.’

We have done away with jurors. There is still possibility of witnesses being influenced by public opinions. And lay judges? Do we still have lay judges today in our courts? I have heard of judges, I have heard of lay persons but not lay judges. This is the first time I heard of lay judges in the above definition from outlaw.com. Can I safely conclude that our judges, well trained professionals, are not lay judges?

Is there really a case to invoke such restrictive laws on sub judice in this smart nation? A smart nation cannot be filled with stupid people right? And definitely not stupid judges that will go with the flow… of public opinions. Or at least people put into authority, especially in the courts of law, having gone through a tough regime of legal training, can they be easily influenced by public opinion despite their legal discipline? Or would a simple gag order, forbidding learned judges from reading the social media to protect them from bad influence in the social media do?

Have we advanced as a people, as a nation, to rise above antiquated laws that were introduced at a time when judges too were not so learned, could be lay judges, to protect them and the legal system? It would be very serious if our learned judges of today could easily be influenced by lay people making their lay opinions.

Are we regressing as a people, as a nation, to think that ancient laws and practices are still useful and practical to our highly educated, highly trained and highly discipline justice system?

Can we trust our learned judges to be able to distinguish between chaff and the real stuff in a legal proceeding? Or do we think that the learned judges are just as fickle as the lay people? What is the brandishing of this sub judice law trying to say? Would it undermine the integrity and intelligence of our learned judges, that they need such an ancient law to protect them from making wrong decisions?

45 comments:

Anonymous said...

"Can we trust our learned judges to be able to distinguish between chaff and the real stuff in a legal proceeding?"
RB

Of course. If we have to trust, or rather no better choice to trust, the PAP to be govt, why not judges?

Who is more important, PAP govt or judges?

Anonymous said...

Rb, you have a very good point, the first time i heard of this argument. It is very convincing and intellectual objective approach. It is a great pity that corporate lawyer shaom, pritam sing and sylvialim and the sweetyoyngthinglawyerwhathername all from WP, not raise this rebuttal in parliament?

Anonymous said...

"Can we trust our learned judges to be able to distinguish between chaff and the real stuff in a legal proceeding?"
RB
----------------------
The Singapore Sports Hub cemented its reputation as being a national embarrassment on National Day 2016.
During the pledge taking towards the end of the parade, the projection of the Singapore national flag on the dome did not light up.

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2016/08/11/sports-hub-heads-must-roll/
-----------------------

When there is no retrenchment, I worry for Singapore.

Anonymous said...

"It is a great pity that corporate lawyer shaom, pritam sing and sylvialim and the sweetyoyngthinglawyerwhathername all from WP, not raise this rebuttal in parliament?"
9:34 am

Because they are from WP, not RB, and also are MPs some more, that's why.

Who knows, RB may be like them too, if RB were elected as an MP. It's like that one lah.

Anonymous said...

I think outside influence to the opinion of a professional exists. The text books on laws are the first influence. Read what judgment from what books will lead to the professional to form similar opinion.

Then the held judgement of the past, depending on the individual professional s research or other researchers provided him. These are professional jobs to influence his opinions. I call it core pro opinions.
There is no way main media and non main media can influence the core opinions being formed.

The main media play a main part on putting "pressure" on institution to form opinion. How?

For example, fake degree holders being accepted in civil service and private sectors. It is a good example of main medial and non m media influence.

The employers, being professional, had formed their core opinions that hiring fake degree holders will do the jobs for them. So they pay for the employees to be imported here.
The employers are responsible for the consequences. The CEO, the HR all know what harm or no harm could be done. So they formed professional opinions to hire hundreds or thousands of these fake degree holders.

Somehow, these fake degree holders tried to look for jobs else where and displayed their fake degrees, the lobang burst, and non main media started to criticize the "irresponsible" practice, in the authors opinions.

The main media also joined in later. And it was a big thing because employing faking degree holders is not "honorable".
So many firms started to turn around. Some just kept quiet.

Conclusion is: if professional opinions are formed based on "common value", not supporting fake for example, then the professional judgment will have value to society. The judgment will receive support from the public.
If no one can influence the employment of a fake degree practice, then, the society will turn sick eventually.
So it is not important for laymen to be concerned about the changes of laws. Just keep their mouth shut and stay away.
If it is a social consequence, it will still have bad effects to be seen, though people stay away from the issues. Agree? What do u think?

Anonymous said...

Never heard of lay judges ?

They are presiding in Sin Courts,
otherwise the Media would not
have reported it as a main reason
to have the Sub-judice and
Contempt of the Court.

Anonymous said...

"The Singapore Sports Hub cemented its reputation as being a national embarrassment on National Day 2016."

Not an issue for PAP as long as they can still win more than 90% seats in the next election.

There are already so many issues that make our reputation being a national embarassment, so what's Sports Hub national flag on the dome did not light up?

Anonymous said...

Hilary Clinton has vowed to do away
with TPP before and after the Impending US Presidential Election.
Is this also a national embarassment
for Sin?
Oh no!
It's just an embarassment of a Sinkie
and his Khakis. Got nothing to do
with lay Sinkies.
However, this one man can embarrass
a whole country.

Anonymous said...

It is an insult to our judges to think that they could be easily influenced by public opinions. What kind of lousy judges would they be if this is true.

The only public opinion that judges could be swayed, definitely not public opinion, is the opinion of gods. If there is a need for a gag order, it is to shut the gap of the gods.

Anonymous said...

What is a lay judge? - are they part-timers?
-----------------------------------------------------

A lay judge is a person assisting a judge in a trial and as such are sometimes called lay assessors.
Lay judges are used in some civil law jurisdictions.

Lay judges are appointed volunteers and often require some legal instruction.
However, they are not permanent officers, as they tend proceedings about once a month, and often receive only nominal or "costs covered" pay.
Lay judges are usually used when the country does not have juries.

Lay judges may be randomly selected for a single trial (like jurymen), or politically appointed. In the latter case, they may usually not be rejected by the prosecution, the defense, or the permanent judges.

Lay judges are similar to magistrates of England and Wales, but magistrates sit about twice more often.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lay_judge

Anonymous said...

I am a kangaroo judge. No one can influence me. I sit in The Hague. I listen to whoever pays me to judge and I will judge fairly, in his favour. And many daft will say I am a fair judge. Because I am from The Hague.

Anonymous said...

There are many laymen

with more commonsense

than some learned judges.

Some judges are beholden
to the Rulers and suck up
to them.

When judges suck up to
Rulers and become the
Tools of the Latter, such
judges do not do justice.
THEY BECOME COLLABORATOR
AND ACCOMPLICE OF TYRANT
AND DICTATOR.

IT'S A DAMN SIN IF JUDGES
DO NOT
UPHOLD JUSTICE.

Anonymous said...

10.43

Well said

Anonymous said...

Monkeys-in-White

Monkeys on a Mission

Anonymous said...

Millionaire Monkeys
Monkeys in Parliament.

Monkey General (Ret)

patriot said...


The Justice System of any country
CANNOT
be wholesome when it's Judiciary
is align to the Regime.
Worse if it is a ROGUE regime.


patriot


Anonymous said...

So lucky Singapore is not a rogue regime.

Anonymous said...

Under an Emperor system, ... the Emperor is the ruler, judge and executioner.

patriot is a proud Chinese.
Chinese people have been using the Emperor system for 5,000 years.
Why is patriot complaining?

The separation of the judiciary powers from the emperor (legislators) is a western idea.
Is patriot a banana?

Anonymous said...

Side rant.

Why local swimmers in Olympics talk like American? Not proud of Singlish? Not proud of roots? Singaporeans don't talk like that. People think they are American asian.

patriot said...


patriot likes banana.

It's a highly nutritious food.


patriot


Anonymous said...

Gov not selling homes. They are selling lottery. Clementi hdb flat crossed $1m. Record price there. Unit sold was on the 18 floor. Huat Ah

Anonymous said...

Why local swimmers in Olympics talk like American? Not proud of Singlish? Not proud of roots? Singaporeans don't talk like that. People think they are American asian.
August 12, 2016 1:41 pm

What about foreign talent table tennis players?
Why they talk like PRC Chinese?
Not proud of Singlish?
Singaporeans don't talk like that.
People think they are PRC Chinese.

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:18
Those are true blue Singaporeans. They are not imported sports talents right?

Anonymous said...

You are under Sin. By the law is the knowledge of Sin and the strength of Sin is the law. Sin taking the commandments produced all manners of evil desires because you are sold under Sin. Slaves of Sin.

virgo49 said...

Aiyo, so irritating. Very ten mins advertised that Schooling gut in the finals tomorrow.

Bet my last one million dollar just to win one dollar if he can come first I lose the bet.

Anybody see his shape? ? So much spare tires at the tummy side can compete in Olympics? ?

My God, exexmprion from NS whereas others have to serve immediate.

See other swimmers, bodies like real athletes.

This is the unjust system of SINKIE land where some own khakis are favoured over others. My two day at gym and three days swimming at SAFRA has a better physic than him.

Want to see a 66 year old body? ?

patriot said...


Hehe.....

Elder Virgo;

cannot be so sceptical la.

Schooling did extremely well
in the Semi.

Credit must be given when it
is deserving.


patriot


Anonymous said...

@ Those are true blue Singaporeans. They are not imported sports talents right?

Hahaha, relax gentlemen how come local issue end up becomes PRC vs Cowboy again.

Depends where you go. When i go Malaysia on assignment i also speak like Malay style english. This is to blend in and make the customer feel comfortable. If you around America , you speak American style or more street wise. If its with Brits, you try speaking like english gentlemen or shakespeare's style.





Anonymous said...

Anon 3:58

That's one perspective. Can't say you are wrong if you can adapt. But it would be nice, even if you can geographically adapt, to proudly speak like a true blue singaporean when representing Singapore

Virgo49 said...


Hi Patriot,

Many stupid sinkies are been conned by the PAP to be sportsmen and women. Many lost their lives doing extreme sports. Some so immersed that even their children die doing sports.

What can a sportsman and woman gain in sinkieland?? You think you have arrived???

Farking parasites whites with the support of their egoistical government only wants to be one up on all nations.

Sinikeland, what prospects these sportmen and women have??

The very most Gym Exec at the SSC Gyms and stadiums drawing 2 to 3K a month with a Sports Science Degree which a "O" Level gym also can master.

The farking PAP just wants you to sacrifice your youths and attain glory for them. As a hobby ok but not as a career.

This Schooling guy got NS Exemption. Why exemption when others got to serve??

Enjoying life so much that got so much spare tires on his stomach. Can always go in NS and in SAFSA spare time for training.

Why have special rights over others???

Oh, forgot, sinkieland minorities always git special rights over the magnanimous Majority.

Better be a minority in Matland and have special right to go to the Casino.

Time to play roulette.

Alternatively, if this Schooling wins the gold medal, will circumcise the tip of my little bro and feed the chick. Sixty six old man then circumcise.

Cheers

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Let's cheer for Schooling. He is local, true blue in as much as you can ask for.

patriot said...


Wow!

Waited more than 1 hour to see a specialist at CGH.
Asked a few questions by the Specialist that lasted about 2
minutes.
Cost $35 after a $52.50 Subsidy.

NO MEDISHIELD LIFE COVERAGE,
NOR USE OF MEDISAVE FOR PAYMENT.

MEDICINE NOT INCLUDED.

Cancel all other appointments.
Can't afford them.


patriot



Anonymous said...

Doctors and Lawyers are mostly blood suckers. They are partly the reason costs of living keep rising. Have to feed cockroaches you know

patriot said...

Virgo Unker;

a gold medal shall get a
million Sin Dollars, a silver is worth half a million and a bronze a quarter million.

l worked since the age of 16 and to date have yet to hit a million.

Anyway, Sin has less than 20 medals since the Inception of the Olympics. Any medal that Schooling gets, l shall be proud of him.
ln fact, he has done great to reach the Final.


patriot


patriot said...


No idea who is incharged of the Billing.

Thought Hospital Doctors
are employees of the Health Groups run by Ministry of Health.


patriot


patriot said...


A taxi driver just messaged me that
if l cannot afford then l should not
see a specialist.

What says You about his remark?

Me was referred to the Specialist
by the Polyclinic.


patriot


Anonymous said...

Beware when you visit polyclinic. You may lose more money and time unnecessarily especially they know you can afford more costly services.

Anonymous said...

A fren of mine dreamt of a 'Golden butterfly' in her dream...when she woke up this morning Joseph Schooling is in the final & swam the fastest timing in the semi final of 100m butterfly...wow let's hope & cheer for Joseph that Singapore will win a gold medal or at least an Olympic medal in this Rio Olympics Games...Singapore Singaporean Boleh !

Anonymous said...

Schooling win Olympic Gold and $1 million dollars.
Now GE 2020.

Please vote PAP and show how grateful we are in GE 2020.
PAP #1.
We love PAP.
We love LHL!

Anonymous said...

Hmm...can put food on my table ah? Got free ticket to zoo and watch chimpanzee woo woo woo throughout the year ah? When I travel overseas, got special treatment like free Swimming costume ah?

patriot said...


Definitely proud of Schooling.

However, henceforth he shall be
the Propaganda Boy for the Rulers,
which may not be good for Sinkies
and Sin.
Sinkies are by and large an unhappy
lot now and any attempt to make use
of everything good for propaganda may just result in fatigue in the
Trust of the Rulers.

There should NOT be too much harping
on Schooling's Great Performance to
the State.

SCHOOLING'S STELLAR PERFORMANCE IS
VERY MUCH A PERSONAL EFFORT AS WELL
AS HIS FAMILY'S SUPPORTS.

Sinkies must also know that just
one Schooling does NOT MEAN THERE
WILL BE MANY OTHERS LIKE HIM IN
SIN.

Schooling is so outstanding that a
second Schooling will be hard to come by. This shall be the Reality.

Congratulations to Schooling and Whoever that made him so outstanding.


patriot



Anonymous said...

Sin loves to exalt itself, be proud and relishes in personal glory and power. That's how dictators are created

Anonymous said...

Do you think Joseph Schooling will be invited to PAP tea party?
Do you think he will be the youngest PAP MP in Singapore?
Do you think he will be the face of 5G PAP leadership?

I think a lot of grassroots women already wetting their panties liao.

Anonymous said...

I predict a landslide victory for PAP in GE 2020.
Even Hougang will fall.
*** Singaporeans are that fucking stupid.

Think!
Just because Schooling win does not mean Singaporeans win.
It does not mean you have to be grateful to PAP.

Anonymous said...

The arrogant have dug pits for me, Men who are not in accord with Your law.

Anonymous said...

C'mon. He fight for NS deferment. He fight for his rights. He work hard. He did the nation proud. He did nothing to you all

Dont be jealous and spoil sb's party.

If the rest of people don't know how to fight for their rights. It's their fault.

Not so easy to sway voters unless someone or more sacrifice ( i do mean real sacrifice ). Last time woman have no voting rights, how they achieve it go watch the movie "suffragette"