5/23/2016

The thinkings behind Singapore’s relation with China

I posted an article a few weeks ago on Singapore China relations but somehow it went missing. I am not going to repost it for good reasons. The gist of that article was about top Singaporean diplomats commenting on China trying to divide Asean countries on the issue of South China Sea island dispute. This had riled China and there was protest as expected from China. One of the diplomat corrected himself that it was a personal view, not the official view of the Singapore govt.

In the Today paper on 19 May, the same issue was raised in Bilahari Kausikan’s speech as Singapore’s Ambassador at Large at a policy forum in Tokyo. The views expressed, I am not sure if it is Singapore’s official position or a personal view, more likely to be the former. The title of the speech was ‘Multiracial Singapore must resist being characterized as Chinese country – Standing up to – and getting along with – China’.

I am not going to repeat what Bilahari said in the speech, you can read it at tdy.sg/standupchina.  What I would like to point out is the choice of words used in the speech to describe Singapore China relations vis a vis Singapore USA relations, a kind of reading between the lines. The expressions or words used would give a good impression of the weightage and thinking behind the officials of the Singapore govt. I stand corrected, but presuming that the speech is official and a representative of the govt’s stand.

Take the first example used by Bilahari in describing Vietnam’s relationship with China in his conversation with a senior Vietnamese official. ‘Every Vietnamese leader, he replied, must be able to stand up to China and get along with China, and if anyone think this cannot be done at the same time, he does not deserve to be a leader… The two Asean members who currently seem to have forgotten this basic lesson of South east Asian history, Cambodia and the Philippines, may well come to regret it.’

Bilahari was referring to Cambodia that is too close to China and the Philippines that is too confrontational to China. What is the right position is to stand up to China and at the same time to get along with China, like Singapore, the ability to punch above its weight, to deal with a big power like China. This is like being able to criticize China for its intent to divide Asean and at the same time happily going to China to seek economic cooperation.  A win win formula.

Bilahari posed the question whether China is a friend and what does that mean.  He added, ‘Chinese friendship can sometimes be as overwhelming as Chinese enmity. The United States is certainly a friend. But it can be a very intrusive friend, too often unable to resist the temptation to whip the heathen along the path of righteousness.’  The key words here are that the Americans are friends, and Americans are righteous.  As for China, it is a big question mark. American righteousness? Hmmmm, I smell bananas.

He also commented, ‘It was never very realistic to expect China to passively be a “responsible stakeholder” in an order it had little say in establishing. This phrase is the favourite used by the Americans to tag on China despite the evil and wicked wars the irresponsible Americans have been conducting everywhere and none by China.

Ok, let me move on. Bilahari harped on the point that China ‘constantly refers to Singapore as a “Chinese country” who should therefore “understand” China better and hints at undefined but vast rewards if we should “explain” China to other Asean countries.  It is good to note that all countries, particularly the Americans too have been doing the same, ie, expecting other countries to “explain” American’s position. Is there anything unusual by singling out China other than the “Chinese country” part?

He went on to say Singapore politely and firmly told the Chinese we are not a Chinese country and we would not ‘obey’ what the Chinese meant as explain and understanding.  And here is the key to his thinking, ‘If we were ever foolish enough to accept their characterization and do their bidding, the multiracial meritocratic compact on which independent Singapore rests would be at least severely strained if not broken.’ Read this last sentence very carefully as it reveals a lot of the thinkings of the ‘We’ Bilahari is referring to.

His other choice words to describe Singapore China relations are ‘Chinese seductions’. You make your own conclusion on the use of these words and phrases to describe Singapore China relations as against Singapore US and Japan relations with words like ‘our partners’.

In his concluding paragraph Bilahari disclosed that the Americans and Europeans too made attempts to influence the internal dynamics of Singapore. The most important difference is that the Americans and Europeans and Japanese are friends, partners. In the case of China, the word ‘friend’ is a big ‘what’?

The fact that the whole speech is now deemed fit to be published in the main media says a lot. In the previous case that led to China protesting about the ‘dividing Asean countries’, to reprint the whole article again, is like making an official statement, that Singapore would stand up to China, we are not a ‘Chinese country’ but we also want to have good relations with China and be able to say what we want to say.

When would China cut off Singapore’s participation in the OBOR and other projects in China to tell Singapore that Singapore can go stand up to China for as much as it wants and to punch above its weight?

46 comments:

Anonymous said...

Spore stand up to China & punch above its weigh? How to ? Spore is juz a tiny little red dot ( not even comparable in size to Jakarta). As wat the late LKY had said we r a pragmatic species we adopt this philosophy called '吃鸡卧鸡吃鸭卧鸭 , 那里凉那里坐,那里有钱,那里赚(钻)' in order to survive la.

Anonymous said...

Rb, if chins did that we are fucked!

Veritas said...

I have longed predicted that Hindus are among the biggest enemies with Chinese and China. Hindus are the biggest threat to humanity happiness and they are loser, ever since the rise of Islam. They are the world biggest Nazi.

Nevertheless Hindus know they fuck up big time and given every opportunities, they will marry Chinese women using our genes to purge their shit DNA. Hindus will NEVER marry their own dalits.

This Balahari looks 80% east Asian and must be bastard of mix marriage.

Malay despise Keling as loser. Hindus will never win Chinese because Hindus like to look down on people and create animals from human being as dalits. The only thing hindus could do is to suck their USA master cock and hope USA can help them hammer China.

Hindus can wait long long.

Its time for them to keep their curry nouth shut.

Anonymous said...

Do you think PAP government will stand up to China?

What is Lee Kuan Yew's surname?
What is Lee Hsien Loong's surname?
What is Li Hong Yi's surname?

How do you spell Lee in Putonghua?

Virgo 49 said...


Singapore is a Chinese Country, that's a realty!

No doubt about it, Neh!

For years after independence, unspoken secret to build up ARMED FORCES with majority Chinese.

The Malays loved to don army outfits and kpkb why not drafted to wear one.

Indians us usual played two sides as their cultures.

Hello, you are just plain lucky that you have a magnanimous Chinese banana leadership and a also equally magnanimous chinese majority with a live and let live mentality.

So do not have too much high ambitions.

If you are in Matland, most of your kind living in shacks and children wearing shorts with no shirts or shirts with no shorts.

We are better off in relations with China rather rather than with the white devils.

Chinese MYOB and.live and let live.

Veritas said...

Singapore is successful precisely of Chinese culture. Malaysia and Indon has same geographically advantage as us, and yet both keep finding reasons why they must shit on minorities.

Both are piece of shit, and despite their massively population, they create no value, and their scientific output are gabbage.

Worse are Hindus, everywhere they go, they create animals out of native.

Only Myanmar manage to free themselves of hindustanic people (in reality they are bangladeshi muslims), when father of AunSan Suu Kyi Berguoke Aun San, started to kick out Indians.



Anonymous said...

True or not?
The cost of our Marina Coastal Expressway (MCE) is S$4.1 billion or US$2.97 billion.
It's 5km long and 3.5km is underground.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_Coastal_Expressway

VERSUS

The Gotthard Train Tunnel - The World's Longest & Deepest Train Tunnel
- dug into the Swiss mountains
- cost = US12 billion
- 7500 feet deep
- 35 miles (120 km) long

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-22/introducing-gotthard-train-tunnel-worlds-longest-deepest-train-tunnel

Kilometer for kilometer, which is cheaper?
- Singapore's MCE or Switzerland's Gotthard Tunnel?

Kilometer for kilometer, which is more difficult to build?
- Singapore's MCE or Switzerland's Gotthard Tunnel?

Anonymous said...

HK had a hot conference on 1R1B on 18 May. China FM said 34 countries had signed interests in projects directly with China close to 1000YI USD (not rmb). We in sg hardly see Chinese officials coming around to south east asia, except 1 ex foreign minister visited Najib and Jokowi last week.

Sg can shout its throat off. It is ignored i guess because the project 1R1B is really taking shape and china officials have to spend time besides spending attention on their very own internal people, especially the poor involving agricultural and fishing.

Sg official s chinese singapore or muslim singapore are nothing concrete but ideological. Both concept can work easily to singaporeans.

This official needs to do is to stand for election in some smc or best grc. Get the pm post, then he can actually change singapore to what he wants it to be.

But he needs to make sure export figures are booming, sell to Indonesia and Malaysia, and others, like US and Japan. Then the majority singaporeans will take him as pm, no question ask.

Singaporeans are not interested who is the army chief what race, and who is pm what race. They want to be treated equally. Find jobs receive education and spend on their families.

For sure, singaporeans are not anti US UK Japan China to the extend to challenge their existence. Sg wants to exist, it better not to challenge these countries existence first.

If co exist is the concept, then trade to make money to benefits their own people is the things to do.
Shouting at china will not get things like trading with china right. They will not bother about singapore or what happen to it. Its true. china is a big mass. Shouting on a big piece of big mass its like shouting to the moon at night. The moon cannot be bother.

Anonymous said...

Is the Oxford Dictionary more pro Singaporean than the PAP government?

"Singlish enriches the English language, says Oxford dictionary editor"

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/singlish-enriches-the-english-language-says-090707030.html?nhp=1

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ idiot Bilhari:

Oh for fuck's sake, enough already with the throat clearing, feet shuffling and trying to shade the TRUTH.

Singapore is a multicultural (Bilhari, fuck you, there's no such thing as "race"...it's a fucking ILLUSION!) society. It is also a Chinese-majority society and thus Chinese culture tends to DOMINATE certain aspects of the cultural landscape.

However it is not "pure" Chinese culture, but more a Straits-born Chinese (SBC) culture aka "perankan", to which many people identify with...I include MYSELF here.

Strait's born Chinese dominate the cultural and commercial environment in our region. Just accept it as FACT, and get on with your bloody confused and dissatisfied lives.

Without the SBC's there could not be any development, commerce or education or WEALTH in our region. Take away the ethnic Chinese populations of Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia and of course Singapore and we'll all still be living under coconut trees and shitting in holes in the ground. It would be a "miracle" if any of us lived past age 40, and most of our children would be dead, many at child birth. The kids would be intellectual sub-normal being malnourished, and they won't be educated properly.

This fuck-nut is trying to paint a different picture than what the FACTS suggest....so that he can gain a few points here and there and the State can "look good" because other people all of a sudden "feel good", which is the result of a good bullshit story.

Singapore is multicultural AND peranakan Chinese.

Majulah 混蛋!

Anonymous said...

Must show that we are a balanced country with opposing views.
These type of writers - read typewriters - are clearly dispensable...like typewriters of old.

Veritas said...

Marina tunnel is around 6 lanes, Gotthard Train Tunnel is 2 lane. So to get an equivalent, you need compare 3.5 x 6 = 21 km and 56 miles x 2 = 110 km.

So Gotthard tunnel should be 5x more expensive than Marina.

Anonymous said...

I think after many years of high volume trades with China. I think Singapore, US, Europe, HK, Japan and Taiwan,SK, Australia etc all learn that under globalization where manufacturing which provides the bulk of jobs is transferred to a cheaper location enmass, the ill effects of stagnant growth and associated social problems will start to appear in subsequent years.

As for 1R1B, look at Taiwan and HK economy now that has never ever been ever closer to China mainland for past 20 yrs. Just look at the influx of China country man into these two countries and its associated problems.

Some people just do not understand that there is no way to compete with China with regards to labor cost and IP. For now, it remains to be seen whether it is a win win situation for countries to do business with China. I think for Singapore, somehow they already make up their mind.

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ 1106:

>> under globalization where manufacturing which provides the bulk of jobs is transferred to a cheaper location enmass, <<

The trend is reversing now. Robotics has changed that. "Labour arbitrage" is fast becoming obsolete. These days, China is building factories in the USA

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

And China is EMBRACING robot manufacturing, even though it potentially threatens the employability of the human labour force.

Here comes the new Chinese worker

Are you ready for competition?

Anonymous said...

So Gotthard tunnel should be 5x more expensive than Marina.
May 23, 2016 10:56 am

If your calculations are correct;
Why is Gotthard Tunnel so cheap?

Anonymous said...

"As for 1R1B, look at Taiwan and HK economy now that has never ever been ever closer to China mainland for past 20 yrs. Just look at the influx of China country man into these two countries and its associated problems. "Anon 9:26am.

This is a hollow claim. Its like a person says he is hungry, he needs no customers.

The opposite happened in HK and Tw. HK and TW at current situation: poor retail sales, low hotel occup rate, low tourists number, is exactly the results of reduced number of china visits. Many restaurants hotel tour operations are closing. The logic is easy to digest with some economic education.

A sg main concern is sg. HK can get into 1R1B easily. HK is a hub for IPO and funds gathering. 1R1B will need HK when the projects runs into implementation: construction road high speed rails all need huge capital. The related activities in trade also need capital. That s what HK will get. The banks will have businesses.
Taiwan is different. Its new government is anti china and pro Japan US. The new govt s approach towards china will not receive preferential treatment to taiwanese islanders. Taiwan will hollow out with industries moving to china or vietnam or indonesia or thailand. Taiwan s products are taxed china, moving out is the right move. 1R1B will be hard for taiwanese whose govt policy may trigger japan to raise stakes on anti china movement in south china seas. There is a price to pay for such games.

Sg is the first among the 4 tigers to face steep problems ahead. Its US pivot front foot man style has led china to cool state relationship with sg. To china, sg is not important for finance, comparing to HK and SH. The china men are going west towards Germany on land. The rail is from Xian through Russia to Germany, Holland, Italy. The chinese dont need a dot called singapore, if viewing from the vision, and it is getting real.

Sg s export to china can hardly be good, not even profitable in the present rising US pivot policy. Chinese dont buy from their unfriendly counter parts, similar to not buying from Tw island. Not to mention 1B1R projects financing etc. They will not bother this city state.

The problem in Sg is internal. The islanders are owing banks and hdb 80% of GDP or S$288 billions. With higher interest rates, the debt is around $300 billions. It means the islanders cannot run into financial crisis like jobless.

But sg non oil export is declining due to its products and high exchange rate policy.

It is exactly like this: has nothing to attract big customers to buy, no innovative products to sell to china, and the politicians in charge have the habit to snob the china men, the world 2nd biggest market. But but, the politicians voters owe ah loong lots of money to repay. This is sg islander s problems. Soon some may have O$P$ coming.


Anonymous said...

@ atilah 11:49 and 11:55 am

So if China is building factories in US. Then will they be bound by US labor laws and as such be less competitive. Other countries who will be more competitive will take over if there is no tariffs.

The is golden rule no.1 of globalization.

If China is embracing robot manufacturing assuming to create even cheaper products to compete and a solution to solve the 1 child policy effect and getting older work force, this will also create more social problems within the china itself.

The real question is What real benefit will it bring to Singapore even if we join the 1B 1 R thing? What can we also offer to China instead?

Veritas said...

In reality, China labor cost is not as cheap. Shit hole India is far cheaper. But not many economy can outcompete China is labor wage arbitration, maybe other than Vietnam. Reason being, China is able to use her massive market advantage, and lots of factory, to scale up supply chain.

That cut a lot of cost, and China can transfer that cost cutting into wages of her labor.

And that is why despite higher China salary, her industries are only moving out to Northern Vietnam, and Vietnam being close to Guangdong is an integral part of China supply chain and China industrial sphere.

Shit hole India will have non of that.

Anyone who tell the truth will tell you how fucking efficient is Chinese operator compared to Hindus.

HIndus simply DONT CARE.

They let everything rot and they basically leach a company dry.

Anonymous said...

Small penis punch above its weight? You are a deluded penis. However, you are a good military base in Asia. Well equipped and strategically located and since so small, nothing to lose.

Your military is dominated by Chinese? Nuff said

Anonymous said...

@ Anon 1:33pm

Well, the fact speaks for itself.

Look at Singapore, HK, Taiwan, Japan etc before the opening up of China.

Even assuming what you say on the poor performance of your country economy is true due to China relationship issues. Isnt this exactly the point where you cannot compete with China with regards to manufacturing jobs (providing high and more stable employment) compare to service jobs.

I mean if this is the reason, whereby one country is saying that it cannot provide enough employment to the youth is because my relationship with another country is bad. What makes you think the population will vote for you in a democratic world.

The key point here is if you cannot compete and if you stick too close (or reliant) to another country which is cheaper. The end result will be your all investment will all be suck away. Just like HK which has no more manufacturing jobs unlike its older days.

HK will not be able to compete with Shanghai and shenzhen for sure irregardless to Banking, manufacturing, rental, labor, shipping and everything for now and in long run. If HK rules and laws would to change and would to be perceived as not independent which is what is gradually happen. Why would people want to park their money to HK like what Li ka shing did? Do you know why so many people not just students only came out on those few nights (after work) to protest?

Looking at Sg house debt issue. You tell me which asian countries (even china itself) house is getting cheaper and who is not borrowing money for installment. Things have changed rapidly. How much a dim sum meal cost now in Guangdong and in HK after taking account currency changes. It was not like that before.

Like what you say, China does not need Singapore to export its goods under its main strategy whether relationship is good or bad? Then why should we embrace them ? Would it not be logical to stick to the other side?



Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@141:

The one road one belt is inevitable. China will get it come hell or high water.

I have no idea if it will "benefit" Singapore or not, and I don't really care. I like to see benefits or costs occur to individual players...i.e. it is up to YOU as an individual to take advantage of the situation. I certainly plan to do this for myself.

Yes, Chinese business will be subject to US labour laws, but those laws are changing and if you are "going robot", labour laws don't apply anyway (except for the 10 or so people looking after your "dark" factory)

Yes, it is reasonable to asume that China will face serious social change in the advent of robotics. The Chinese govt is aware of this. But they have done the "right thing" in embracing robotics and even encouraging Chinese enterprise to automate.

You can't help but move forward, or you will die. As always, when there is "creative destruction" by "disruptive technologies" you will get winners and losers.

That's just life.

Anonymous said...

@ Veritas 1:58pm

I mean look at Sg. People are complaining that our govt is allowing so much influx of foreign talent into Sg.

You know you can get a fresh young uni grad (huge abundance and in great selection) in Beijing for 5000 RMB now (last time it was worse). Our Sg grad is asking for at least 2000 SGD.

How to compete? Some people say our grad is smarter, can speak singish better, higher standard. Does this really matter to the employer especially in a sector (providing massive employment) where your product is not so high tier eg. building spaceship going to mars? Like any Sg chinese boss, the cheaper the better and can work 24/7 without OT?

Anonymous said...

Garden by the bay will be a good place for Chinese to BBQ dog meat while loading their m16

Anonymous said...

@ atilah 2:19pm

Exactly. So at the end of the day. It is everybody for itself. In Singapore context, somehow they decided this may not be in his best interest. However they are not stopping you to do so?

Look at the article you have provided, can robotics really replace human in that particular job and the thing they are producing in near terms. It will be interesting to see how China US factories will perform in other countries turfs? I give you an example, China oil companies perform very well in their own countries under their own terms and conditions? Do you know how they perform in other countries under other countries own terms and conditions?

I just tell you one interesting observation, do you know how much man power it requires for China to plant one tree compare to a Singapore one? At the end of the day, it is still cheaper to plant one tree using 100 old labour than to use one robot (high initial setup cost) for now. This a reality and a fact of life.

Anonymous said...

They show no mercies even to their own kind you think they give a fuck about you?

Anonymous said...

Whats your plan? Buy elites with money? What culture? Worship money?
They think you are fucking corrupt

Anonymous said...

They give a fuck when your old man died? You blind or what

Anonymous said...

A lot of taiwan people do not understand why their economy is so stagnant after so called so many years -8 years of "good" relationship with China which is a economic powerhouse. They are sort of blood brothers. Slowly the working class and the majority realized that all their stable jobs are almost gone and start to depend on China face for tourist or related business. This china face even interfere with the local politics. This peace is supposed to meant bigger and greater GDP growth.

As such I think a lot of people dream too much of such brotherhood. In a business world, i think this is a dog eat dog world.

Just like the malaysia supply water, one day not happy. They will choke your supply. If you cannot supply your own, then you die. It is a better option to diversify your source or to provide your own source.

Anonymous said...

Self declare non corrupt in your own land, everybody sheepishly nod their heads to your boast.
Tell it to the Chinese you are non corrupt, you think they believe you?

If you are corrupt to them, what do you think they will do to you?

Anonymous said...

ISIS thinks you are corrupt, what say you?

Anonymous said...

Ahh..get your scribes to convince them you are clean? :)

Anonymous said...

Penang Chinese chief charged for corruption...who is going to save him?

Anonymous said...

Your boss is very good at fixing people hoor. I am sure you are too lol

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ 243:

>> So at the end of the day. It is everybody for itself. <<

I don't know about that. Humans tend to act in what they think is their self-interest. They compete or cooperate depending on the situation, and of course the individual characters and personalities of the actors.

>> In Singapore context, somehow they decided this may not be in his best interest. <<

Of course. Not only in Singapore, everywhere same-same. In the realm of politics, the smart politician's role is to get everyone to act in the politician's interest, by force, or by sweet-talk and "bribes" (incentives) or a combination. The fact is the BEST politician will be able to CON-vince people that he has the best solution and therefore they should follow his "lead".

There are many people who believe wholesale whatever rubbish or truth comes out of their (expensive) government's mouth---without thinking CRITICALLY for themselves, and so the govt invariably "wins". The gullible sheeple also think they have "won", but mostly they're deluded.

There's nothing you can do about that. Just leave them alone, and hopefully find a way yourself so you don't end up like them...unless you actually want to. Up to you lah. Your life, you choose...or someone will do the choosing for you.

>> can robotics really replace human in that particular job and the thing they are producing in near terms. <<

Depends what you mean as "near term". I would say in about 10 years, 30-60% of the jobs done by humans today will disappear. There are many companies and smart people working in them that are very secretive about the tech they're developing. (of course lah. Their tech is potentially worth hundreds of billions)

The conversation about robotics and AI is hot and fierce, but Joe Public is basically unaware of what's going on. No one has yet found a solution to the potential of societies to break apart due to MASSIVE unemployment which is bound to occur at some point.

The Chinese govt hope to grow their domestic economy in the service sector to provide employment for those displaced by machines. Frankly I doubt this is the "complete" solution. Sure, it will help...but you're talking 100-200 million factory workers all of a sudden in the service industry. I can't see it happening. But I'm not a Chinese economic planner, so I simply have no clue as to what the eventual solution(s) may be.

As an aside, the Chinese-made sex bot industry is going to take off at some time. You can already buy some of these "dolls" on alibaba (3 cheers for Jack Ma!). I won't post links here, only mention. You can do your own "research"...and perhaps share your findings with the other humsup chee kopek uncles here. Happy googling ;-)

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:18pm

The way u see the current sg situation is indifferent. U provide explanation to something that might not be the reason reason. That was the reason i called "hollow claims".
U really think china is cheap, getting too close to china will such away jobs to china?
Malaysia is 50% in S$ exchange rate, do citizens go to malaysia to do those manufacturing jobs, especially in Penang?

Debts are not one off payments. When thinking of sg debts, u tried to explain Guangzhou and HK dim sums are expensive. I have better under standing on your explanation, again its hollow in nature. It offers no specific preference on what causes the high cost problems in sg. U also dont seem consider the future risks of sg for giving up or for the other side to set walls for sg products to enter china, tho there is free trade agreement.

I have scanned daily on comments in RB's blog. There are comments that provide certain logical basis and standards to drill on issues. I might have chosen your comments based on those expectations.
What i can say is that, sg people will find less jobs and income available to them as the results of sg political policies. The natural minds would discuss to find what others will do to pre-empt themselves dropping at the cliffs. I am one of the minds going for that purpose. Thanks for sharing your thots.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon 6:37 pm

China is getting expensive but is still cheapest in the world in terms of manufacturing.
What manufacturing jobs you talking about in Penang? It cannot be more competitive than China manufactured ones. It is the same case those days Singapore jobs are transferred to Penang/Thailand as well as we are getting more expensive

Of course, under globalization. Your money and jobs will be suck away to a cheaper country if you cannot compete with them.

I am using Dim sum theory in case you dont understand as per proven like above. Singapore, the size like that and population like that + no resources, you still want to be debt free or less debt than others. By default logic, it has to be in huge debt to be what it is today. What risk are you talking about if we do not "expand" to boost GDP? what other areas or ratings will we get into trouble if we do not borrow? Which country is not in debt like that after it has exhausted its initial growth advantage? China debt is growing as well and its reserves are declining. Should they be worried? You got friends in Sg property? Which agent will tell you to invest in other countries for long term? A lot of people got burn just because of currency.

Nope contrary to what you written, i think that everybody will still find less jobs and income irregardless of what sg political policies are concerned as the most important factor is we cannot compete with China as for now. Under globalization, businessman do not give a damn about what you believe in. He only believes on how much money he can made for himself even at the expenses of labor rights or worse human lifes as these will determine how you can compete in this era. China provides such excellent platform. See someone above also say the same thing, better depend more on yourself and worse do not lose your souls just like the Hongkies now. Again HK is currently a sad place with lost identity which is they are neither here nor there.

Anonymous said...

Throw smoke no use

b said...

Just be humble and be nice to everyone. Every country has strong and weak points. Just know how to make use of them.

Anonymous said...

@ atilah 6:36pm

I dun think 10 year is enough. I think it is a bit longer than that for robots to take over the job that is shown in your article.

A good indicator would be the use of robots on warfield. I think we are still at the infant/ at best child stage and a lot of things need to be refine/tested/ commissioned and then go into commercial production. I think what you meant is fully automated assembly line whereby what i meant is something like a unmanned vehicle taking over a human diver eg.

I do not doubt a bit about a lot of smart people or a lot of money being poured into this area for research. But this kind of thing as i believe will be driven more efficiently in the commercial sector rather than govt sector. There is a particular incentive for the US industries to pump in money for research but sad to say i do not see the same level of incentive for china commercial sector to do the same even their govt keeps saying so. There is always a commercial reason for chinese company to do so. If can copy, why not?

I think restructuring of any country economy should be gradual and in china's case, it should be done even more gradual. As for 100-200 million unemployed workers starting to flood the market. I can only say good luck and hope such thing would not happen. But i guess i agree per what you say, it really dont look that good as clock is ticking. US and the west are not there to help as to invest further though as they also in shit unlike 30 years ago when china market open.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:15pm
Your points are becoming clearer. U want readers to accept that citizens lost their jobs because of globalization. Nothing can be done. U mean sg is a borderless country. I hope people are not foolish. U also want readers to accept that citizens lost their jobs not because of the CPF rate charged on employer, while zero charge on employment passes.

I urge readers be more intelligent to ask for a NS free environment when they have finished their full time NS. At the same time, during full time NS, they must be paid the market rates. $2kpm and not $500pm. I also urge reader to ask employment pass to be taxed at CPF rate to contribute to the coffer.

Do not believe the govt have been fair to u , They are exploiting citizens using foreigners at E passes to lower the asking salaries for all citizens and PR. E pass holders are hired by employment agencies. These agencies help to negotiate a low salary. Once that figure is set, citizens will lose that chance for the job, and will they dare ask for more?

U are not even having the attitude to say something to better your own life, how to accept your words asking readers to believe in themselves?

U are standing at E pass or S pass holders position to ask citizens to believe in themselves.

U really think HK native people are sad? No the majority are not. Only those who want to do anti china activities feel sad. These people mainly students in HK uni are asking support from US embassy in HK. In HK water is cheap, fish vege are cheap, the average are not having problems with rice fish and vege.

In sg, go to ask the super mar fish seller, are fish expensive to the average buyers, and observe how often people eat fish.

U are throwing lots of words from the official msm lines. They explanations are hollow. Just compare those points i spoke about E pass, u will know that i believe in myself: fight for others for a better tomorrow. Learn to catch up in RB s blog if u are citizen of singapore. U need to be specific on points and dont use those from msm.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon 9:28pm

This is a blog where everyone can read to accept or reject. Maybe it is up to individual's level of intelligence to understand.

Like what some people say here, you can chose to complain or take advantage of the situation. Up to individual.

As for all the passes you mentioned, CPF, NS issues.... i can only say that 70% of your mates already all say aye. Why you just cannot accept it like the rest as though you have a better strategy? Even the BB BE results re endorsed this. Singaporeans have all the chance in the world to reject this at will.

Hongkie, Of course they are sad as these cantonese (especially the youth) have lost identity. Even Zhang De jiang came to HK to speak in Chinese, if he is sincere, he should talk to the local population in their local language. So far under Xi policy, irregardless whose ever fault (whether US, Japan, UK or even Singapore instigated one), there are already open confrontation riots in the streets (prime districts somemore) 2 times liao. I take it that the country is getting more and more unstable. I dun know what you meant by cheap food in HK, what countries are you comparing with? average not having problems with rice and vege.... of course if you meant the Sg average as well... they are facing the exact same problems we are facing. Do you know how much it cost/rent to have a living space in terms of per square feet?

Well you can chose to say otherwise but as long i feel like i will always reject your opinion(for myself) as and when. Again, i am not here to seek your endorsement or anyone's.
I do not know what you meant by using points from MSM, i write those points i feel is correct. If you feel otherwise, then you can always present your point as well. What is the point that you bring up all those side rubbish if you cannot even answer all the point of globalization and competition. I mean i would want to know what are your solutions to globalization and competition if mine are hollow, otherwise ....





Anonymous said...

Rb //When would China cut off Singapore’s participation in the OBOR and other projects in China to tell Singapore that Singapore can go stand up to China for as much as it wants and to punch above its weight?//

Aiya

You see

Both surname same in Chinese ( 李 )

Li or Lee but in Chinese it means the same tinkie

Li Ka Shing said his son a bit like ...... cannot communicate as well as himself with the Chinese leadership going forward

So he quickly disposed of his holdings in China as fast as he could after Xi took over in 2013

Sinkieland same same the successor's personal level not as close as old man with the the cina leadership

So like Li KS, shift his tinkie all to UK or mostly

Sinkieland pivoted towards the "beautiful country" in the west ( in Chinese they really called "美国" literally means "beautiful country" )

They say beauty is only skin deep

Like many demons in the Journey to the West

Outside look like fairies but inside the demon are all white skeleton?

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ 919:

>> A good indicator would be the use of robots on warfield. <<

Already being done and very effective. For e.g.: check out Israel's robo-snipers. Very few humans can shoot like that.

The WORST THING anyone can do is put loaded weapons onto autonomous AI's. "What could possibly go wrong?" I leave it to your imagination...

Check out also, Samsung's robot sentry. Damn good shot. Can kill from over 3km away!

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

P.S. "Bayesian learning" is one way to get AI's to "learn" about the world. Basically, as the AI gathers more data about the situation/ environment it "updates" its model of the world, and incorporates these new "world views" into the tactics and strategies of their mission.

This is all well and good if the robot is used for manufacturing, HFT-trading (people hate this), prediction of trends used for govt. forecasting etc.

But put a Bayesian brain into an armed military robot, and all sorts of very bad shit can happen if the thing malfunctions.

Computer science undergrads have been playing with Bayesian learning...it is part of their courses now. So...what do you think those idiots in the military and defense contracting firms are doing?!?

I won't be surprised if Singapore is already in The Game. Our PAP loves weapons have been successful in selling these items.

Fucking hell.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon 9:28pm

Just a small advise to share:

One thing about seafood in China nowadays.

Nowadays it is very difficult to get wild seafood catch in China and mostly are farm breed fish, prawn etc. It is also difficult for a common person to distinguish both.

I was shocked to learn this from my ex colleague. Nowadays she seldom eat seafood for the simple reason that fishes in china are commonly fed with anti biotics to make sure that they do not get sick. I guess this is food safety issue. Now how true is this and to what extent, i do not know.

So sometimes you also need to know the reason behind on why something is cheap or cheaper especially if it is food.