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11/08/2012

Where is the problem?



The basic in problem solving is to identify the problem, acknowledge the problem, then works towards removing or overcoming the problem. If all else fails, just avoid the problem or pretend that there is no problem.

The SDP has worked very hard, putting a team of professionals together to try to solve the high property price problem. They have come out with a very detailed proposal called Non Open Market Scheme to solve the problem that is on everyone’s mind. Actually I am wrong to say this. It is only in the minds of those who see high prices as a problem. Some are jubilant and celebrating the high prices. Where got problem?

LKY had said that his party has delivered the goodies to the people, built and sold housing at cost or below cost, and the people are now happily enjoying the high value of their properties, inflated 5x, 10x or even 20x. Such a great achievement, to make the people so rich cannot be a problem. It is something admirable to brag about. And the people are so grateful. This is even better than the savings in the CPF that put a smile on Swee Say’s face.

Come on where is the problem? If it is a problem, LKY would not be bragging about it. If it is a problem, Boon Wan, would have solved it. His remedies so far were not meant to bring down the high property prices, but to allow continue appreciation of property prices. The reality of price shooting through the roof may be a bit unexpected. But does anyone see any panic, any panic measures being taken to prevent the prices to go further up? They may be quietly celebrating the huge success of a housing programme where all buyers can look forward to more asset enhancements and appreciation of values.

Now, when the govt does not see this as a problem, don’t expect the govt to do anything. Only some people, mostly the younger people and those who have no properties, are crying out loud that high property price is bad. So, one say got problem, one say good thing to have. What will happen to the SDP’s NOM Scheme then? Redundant, unnecessary, uncalled for, unwanted!

Only when the SDP is in power, or when a think alike opposition party comes to power would the SDP’s proposal be considered. To the incumbent power, where got problem? Don’t come and ‘ka cho’ with unnecessary solutions that are not needed. Don’t be too clever when there is no problem to start with.

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

[ST Forum]
No profit from BTO 'extras': HDB

"They are priced based on quotes obtained from suppliers according to our specifications and requirements, which are also regularly reviewed.

As the same prices are used to pay the contractor, we do not profit from the sale of items under the scheme.

Like all HDB flats offered for public sale, the pricing.. takes into account prevailing market conditions, location and flat attributes.



Wong Wee Yoo

Director (Contracts & Cost Management)

Housing & Development Board"


http://www.straitstimes.com/premium/forum-letters/story/no-profit-bto-extras-hdb-20121108

Anonymous said...

Once again ... you are not paying HDB for the "ownership" of the HDB flat.
You are buying a lease.
Not a leasehold property.
But a lease. Just like a car lease.

You are paying HDB for the right to stay in the HDB flat for 99 years.
In other words, you are paying your rent 99 years in advance.

Anybody, including your children, can inherit your 99 year leasehold property.
Because you do not "own" your HDB flat, it is HDB who decides whether you are allowed to transfer ownership of the HDB lease to your children or anybody else.

90% of Sinkies live in HDB flats.
Therefore HDB/government owns 90% of the residential property in Singapore.
Only private property owners (10%) truly own their own homes.
Singapore has the lowest home ownership rates in the world at 10%.

Singapore government has the highest home ownership rate in the world at 90%.

Anonymous said...

We are not citizens in Singapore.
We are just tenants.
The landlord now wants to increase the rent.
Sinkies can't pay. Also not reproducing fast enough to to the PAPigs liking.
So bring in foreign talents who can afford to pay more rent.

The model they are using is the country of Monaco. See Wiki link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monaco

Anonymous said...

Pathetic to know I am paying so much just to be tenants, a lease, meaning i got to return the flat to govt after 99 years.

I think we should vote in more Oppigs into Parliament so that they can change all hdb flats into freehold. The amount sinkies pay for their hdb now is enough to buy a few freehold property in other countries.

What do you think ?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The problem will come when the person who inherits the property is either already HDB owner, so cannot have two HDBs, or does not qualify to own HDB, no family unit, single etc, then must sell.

Anonymous said...

You are given a grace period of 1 year to sell, if you do not qualify to "own" an inherited HDB flat.
Too bad if you are forced to sell at the bottom of the property cycle e.g. Asian crisis or October 2008.

Anonymous said...

Where got problem? The problem will be solved when the property market crashes.

Then the cycle will begin again.

Humans are funny. In life they slog and struggle or cheat to get rich and accumulate wealth, knowing that all those efforts will be nulified at the end of their life. Can they take along their multi-million dollar houses, their antiques or their jewellery?

Rich or poor, the final achievement is being reduced to ashes or food for the maggots.

agongkia said...

The problem is that there are many of those who Chia Par Bo Sai Parng.
When properties prices went down,we are doomed.
Like me or not ,I am one who feel that this is the only thing that our Garmen had done extremely well compare to other policies.Prices should be up up up..
See far ahead. Garmen can only see 10 year ahead.You all must be able to see hundred years ahead.

Matilah_Singapura said...

You guys ought to shout louder. A couple of weeks ago, some of my Aussie friends reveled to me that they're thinking of emigrating to Singapore, not just to pay less tax and fuck Sarong Party Girls and Ah Quas, but to buy property -- especially HDBs.

But I don't blame them. It is the government which creates incentives for people to act, and act they will, for profit, in their own self-interest.

@anon946: It is true that HDBs are not owned, but leased. However the property title of the lease is exchangeable on a (sort of) open market. As long as there is a market where exchange can take place, you will have profit, losses and prices.

A recent example is CDS -- Credit Default Swaps. They are in actuality INSURANCE on someone elses property. It is ridiculous to be able to buy and sell insurance on property that is not your won. But there you are: a derivative called Credit Default Swaps is extremely marketable and the market is alive and well.

HDB is like CDS -- you technically don't own it, but you can trade it in a market.

Got financial lunacy?

Anonymous said...

The problem is how not to pay you with the actual money from your CPF - Medisave, minimum sum, annuity and high property prices. If you can show the government how to transfer to the SWFs or any other means to reduce or deplete your CPF without you touching the money, then the property price can come down.

Anonymous said...

The best, simplest and cheapest way to make property price come down is to have a freak election.

The said...

/// Anonymous said...
Once again ... you are not paying HDB for the "ownership" of the HDB flat.
You are buying a lease.
Not a leasehold property.
But a lease. Just like a car lease.///

Once again, you are showing your ignorance. It is a leasehold property - exactly like a 99 year private property by CDL or WingTai or CapitaLand. And do you quibble that you do not "on" your fancy leasehold condo?

The said...

And do you quibble that you do not "own" your fancy leasehold condo?

Anonymous said...

HDB flats belong to HDB.
If HDB flats belong to you, then you can give your HDB flat to anybody.
No need to ask permission from HDB.
But reality is that you need HDB's permission and approval.
Even the race of your buyer requires HDB approval.

99 year leasehold property belongs to you.
You are the owner.
You can give it to anybody you want.
No need to ask for permission from HDB.

Anonymous said...

"The" is the same PAP internet troll as "theonion".

Trying to gain credibility by pretending to be anti-PAP on minor points.
But on sensitive issues like HDB ownership, will try to confuse everybody.

oldhorse42 said...

I know some one who bought a new 5 room standard flat at Holland Drive in the '70s for $27500.Now the 5 room flats there are transacted at more than $600,000 in the resale market.Not bad for a 40 years old flat! Appreciated 20 times over the years with tweaking of policies(allow PRs to buy,allow whole flat to be subletted out etc) upgrading,SERS,enhanced govt handouts that make HDB living so desirable and profitable.
Could this appreciation be sustained for the next 20 years?
What do you think?

Anonymous said...

If HDB flat really belongs to me.
And is the same as a 99 year leasehold property.
Then why must I get HDB's permission before I can rent it out?

ANSWER
-------
You need HDB's permission because you are not the owner.
HDB is the owner.
You are the lessee.
And HDB is the lessor.
And you need the owner's permission to do things to your HDB flat.

Still don't believe me?
Ask your lawyer friends to double confirm.

The said...

Try giving your 99-year leasehold private property that you "owned" to anybody when the lease expires......

Anonymous said...

HDB flat ownership is a sensitive point because if Singaporeans do not own their HDB flat.
And HDB flat really belongs to HDB/government.
Then in reality, Singapore has the lowest home ownership rate in the world at 10%.

And many Millionaire Ministers will be revealed to have been economical with the truth over last 47 years.

Anonymous said...

Try giving your HDB flat to anyone else BEFORE the 99 year HDB lease expires.
Cannot right?
Must write to HDB for permission.

On the other hand, BEFORE your 99 year leasehold property expires, you can give it to anybody you want.
No need to ask HDB for permission.

No need to trust what I say.
Just ask your lawyer friends to double confirm.

The said...

/// Anonymous said...
Once again ... you are not paying HDB for the "ownership" of the HDB flat.
You are buying a lease.
Not a leasehold property.
But a lease. Just like a car lease.///

Just like a car lease - huh!!! So, I can lease a car, sell the car, and pocket the proceeds?

Why don't you sell your HDB flat after it is fully paid up, and give the proceeds back to HDB, since it is just like a car lease? Oh wait, you can sell your HDB flat since it is only a lease. How can you sell something which you don't own?

Anonymous said...

When you "sell" your HDB flat, you are really selling your lease.
Not the HDB flat.

That is why you must do the transaction at HDB.
Since HDB is the owner.

Think some more about it.
It's just an administrative job for HDB to update it's computerized records of who owns the HDB lease.
Since HDB remains the legal owner.
Ask yourself.
How much is the seller and buyer paying HDB just to update its computerized records?
Think of all the fees you have to pay.

The said...

/// Anonymous said...
When you "sell" your HDB flat, you are really selling your lease.
Not the HDB flat. ///

Now you are getting it. Same same when you sell your fancy leasehold private property with the swimming pool. You are selling your lease. When your Sentosa Cove $25 million property has only 1 year's lease left, it won't fetch very much.

A leasehold property is a leasehold property - no matter whether it is a HDB flat or a private condo. Which part of the word lease you don't understand?

The only reason that HDB imposes certain conditions is that they are "supposed" to be "subsidized".

Anonymous said...

The problem is when you think there is no problem. Get it?

Anonymous said...

Sinkies
Don't let the PAP internet troll confuse you.

HDB flat belongs to HDB. You cannot give the HDB lease to anybody of your choosing without HDB's permission.
Because HDB is the owner.

If you own a 99 year leasehold property.
You can do anything you want.
No need HDB's permission.
You can give the property away.
Rent it out.
Renovate it.
All without HDB's approval.

Nicole Tin said...

The SDP is not bold enough. They should propose free housing. Dubai gives free housing to its citizens.

Anonymous said...

Matilah, for a long time your this post make sense leh. Anyway you are in Australia, Assuie gals easier target to screw compared with sarong party gal?

The said...

Redbean - you have just stumbled upon the greatest truth of the HDB market. Soaring HDB flat prices is not a problem. Deflating and low HDB prices will be a problem.

Let me explain. With 80%-90% of the population already owning their properties, low prices will make everyone poorer - the property owners, property agents and the banks. In fact, many property owners and investors will be hit hard or go bankrupt if property prices collapsed and they go into negative equity.

With high or soaring property prices, those who don't own property and who are trying to buy one will have a problem.

So, to the government - which is the bigger problem? Keeping 80% to 90% of the population happy, or making 10% of the happy?

I think this is a no-brainer. No wonder the government is not really tackling the problem. Like you said, "where got problem?"

patriot said...

Mr Agongkia, Matilah_Singapura and The are the smartest here. Rising property price benefits the largest amount of people and the rest will allow banks and HDB to have good loan business. In a way, it is good all round. Whence the price goes up again, everybody gains.

Those who can make millions can then buy their landed property at other places.

Great Leadership can benefits all the people by 20 times and more.

Lucky Sinkies All.

patriot

Anonymous said...

Tell SDP don't waste time and effort on solutions when there is no need for a solution.

Anonymous said...

You really think there is such a thing as a free lunch?

Rapidly escalating property prices is good?
Escalating prices chokes off all forms of entrepreneurship.

Escalating property prices only benefits the property owners;
a) the government who owns 90% of the land in Singapore
b) 10% of Singaporeans who own private property.

It does not benefit the Sinkies who own the HDB leases.
Anymore than high COE prices do not benefit existing car owners who own the existing COEs on their cars.

reddotsg said...

A house is a home, a place to grow up in, to build memories, not a commodity to be traded, jus to make a few quick bucks, going up 5x 10x 15x what does it matter, when u have to buy your next roof that has gone up 10x 20x 30x without all the memories, enslaved to the system, that u dun even have time to smell the orchids in spring.

Anonymous said...

... and with that we end the discussion.

Anonymous said...

Enough said.

We have have bad leadership here resulting in escalating property prices. That snow balled to high stress and low fertility rate. Our future genretaions who spout fuck as natural as please and thank you can't afford a hdb roof over their silly head.

We should vote for more Opposition come 2016 for Depreciating property prices. Anyway like someone who said here, it doesnt matter because you ain't going to sell your house anyway.

Anonymous said...

And we are paying them millions for not solving our problems.

Anonymous said...

Yes. What the fcuk for ?

Migh as well pay Opposition a fraction and they care for the citizens. At least they will listen to us and try to give us what we citizens want.

Anonymous said...

When the people see the opposition as for the people and the govt as against the people's interest, this will be a game changer in the next GE.

Matilah_Singapura said...

anon 623:

> Assuie gals easier target to screw compared with sarong party gal?

Definitely. If they like you, they'll bang you. Just check the Aussie "fuck buddy" websites.

SPG = $$PG. However, I don't mind. I like monetary exchanges. So don't be surprised if your sisters and your mother likes money, and doesn't mind sucking cock to earn some. Really, don't be surprised...be nice to them. They are your family ;-)

Power to them for their entrepreneurial spirit!

Anonymous said...

Whether the opposition is for the people or anot we won't know until we vote them in. If they are not, we can vote the fcuk out. We vote until one party is for the people. I will vote for anybody who will make me richer and less stress.

In the meantime amidst the chaos and confusion, property prices will surely depreciate and let everybody a chance to go and buy a roof over their head. HDB can go back to its roots in providing cheap housing for needy people in Singapore. Sinkie who served NS can finally afford a roof, a home, to start a family. Then we say that is truly a govt that cares for its people.

Anonymous said...

Mati lah, can't find your mother or sisters name there leh!

Anonymous said...

The biggest problem with the SDP's NOM is that if the govt accepts it, it is as good as admitting that the govt is more stupid than the SDP.

Anonymous said...

Whats wrong with SDP ? SDP is the most forward looking opposition.
WP on the other hand, keeps mum on a lot of issues, although they have been opposition for so long.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

You got a point. WP, where are you?

Anonymous said...

Upton Sinclair was an American author. His 1906 book "The Jungle" exposed the ghastly "hygiene" practices in the Chicago meat industry (kinda like China 2006) and helped to galvanise the food safety laws which, over the last 40 years, have been slowly but surely rolled back to suit the giant agriculture and processed food companies (hint: do not buy US food).

Anyway, the point is Sinclair also wrote this:

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon him NOT understanding it".

And this applies perfectly to the dire straits of housing that we find ourselves in today. The government is so addicted to the excess funds pouring in from selling overpriced slices of land or sky to stupid greedy individuals, that they will never agree to voluntarily cut that source of revenue.