11/16/2012

The Govt cannot be sued?

In the latest incidents when two NSmen were killed while on training, someone pointed out that Ng Eng Hen, Defence Minister, said that the SAF/Mindef or the Govt cannot be sued for such accidents. In these two cases, both victims lost their lives because of breaches in safety procedures, which meant the incidents were more than just accidents. There were negligent or misconduct or serious violations of protocols involved. Is it therefore true that the Govt/Mindef/SAF cannot be sued for such incidents when they are more than accidents? I also read that though the officers involved could be court martialed, the police are also investigating and may commence to prosecute the officers involved. Does this mean that only the officers can be sued but not the organisation or Mindef/Govt? Aren’t the officers appointed by Mindef/Govt and the latter should be ultimately responsible for the officers’ conduct or wrongdoings? If Mindef/Govt is not responsible, does it mean that if the officers were found guilty, it is only between the officers and the victims to settle their grievance and compensation? Also, the NSmen are conscripted by law, by Mindef/Govt for national service and their welfare and well being must be the responsibility of Mindef/Govt? I think there must be a miscommunication or misquote of what Eng Hen had said. It is, from a layman’s understanding, that Mindef/Govt must be ultimately responsible for what happened to NSmen under its authority and administration. And that the people could seek redress and justice from the Govt in cases of injury or death and compensation.. It is frightening to know, if it is true, that Mindef/Govt is not responsible for the death of NSmen in active service. Where is the responsibility, who is responsible and where should the buck stop? Anyone can enlighten on the legal responsibility of Mindef/Govt when NSmen are injured or killed in active service? Responsibility and accountability are key to the actions and performance of an organisation. If an organisation is not accountable for any mishap or wrongdoing, you can expect that only lip service would be rendered at best. Only when someone’s head is on the chopping block would real actions be taken to be tip top and zero tolerance for accidents and negligence or failure to perform.

26 comments:

Anonymous said...

Government can do no wrong. Thats why government never apologise for the failed policies so far.

Anonymous said...

You want the Millionaires-In-White to apologize?
Vote Opposition in GE 2016.
It's the only way to get any accountability from the Pro Alien Government.

Death of NS men.
Make the Defence Millionaire accountable.
Vote him out in GE 2016.

Padaly said...

If you really can't sue the govt but you can still change the govt right? You have a choice when the time comes. Just remember what is said abt this case. Few isolated cases won't dent the powerful elites. Only the combined voice of the people can decide the destiny of this place run by what sort if ppl. That's the ultimate redress.

Anonymous said...

If ever Felicia Seah decided to sue the government for culpable homicide, i will donate to that cause

Anonymous said...

You cannot sue, you can only sack.

patriot said...

If the Government is not responsible for the men they conscripted, ,WHY should the conscripted soldiers be bothered with the Country?

patriot

Anonymous said...

Looks like no one wants to be responsible for the safety of NSmen. So any problem with the NSmen, only the immediate officers are responsible.

Briliant accountability structure.

Anonymous said...

The problem is not that the Government cannot be sued. The reality is that any attempt to sue the Government is throwing good money after bad.


What is the point of suing in Singapore courts when the verdict is so predictable?

Matilah_Singapura said...

No one can sue the government for death during military training.

It is just ludicrous. Military training is dangerous...the risk of death and serious injury is UNDERSTOOD implicitly and explicitly.

Don't be stupid lah. Not every NS man dies in service or training. However some will.

Get fucking real lah, and stop bitching like a bunch of immature children who have no idea of what proper justice is.

Anonymous said...

Where does it say govt cannot be sued? Just because some minister says so doesn't mean it is so. He is no legal expert to make such a pronouncement, if he indeed did make such.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Eh, what's happening to you today? Too young to be senile you know. But may be so in your case, with so much drugs and abuses to your system. Go read the papers and get the facts before you utter your nonsensical rubbish.

This is no accident, daffy.

The said...

/// Matilah_Singapura said...
It is just ludicrous. Military training is dangerous...the risk of death and serious injury is UNDERSTOOD implicitly and explicitly. ///

True, but.....

Ours is conscription army. If I sign up voluntarily to be a soldier, of course you know what you are getting in for. If I am a mercenary, of course I know I am paid risk money.

But being drafted? Can I tell Ng Eng Chicken, I mean Hen, that I want out because I UNDERSTOOD NS is risky and dangerous?

No wonder so many of them mati lah.

Yo, your otah sudah mati?

Anonymous said...

This is negligent, not accident.

Anonymous said...

That is why people should migrate. When there are no more boys to go NS, maybe the pips "would have planned better" to get FTs to serve NS.

Anonymous said...

Too bad we are not in North Korea where joining the armed forces is highly prestigious and less likely to starve. We are lucky we are not having 3 generations of Kims lording over us yet.

patriot said...

Just like to say here that Matilah Singapura had lost his sense of proportion whence he equated peace time military training casualties to battle ground casualty.

Luckily he is not a commander in SAF, otherwise there could be more NS Casualties. Having said that, Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen's explanation of the Issue did not fare any better either.

Sad to note that live of our NS Men are so cheap in the eyes of some Singaporeans.

patriot

patriot said...

'You cannot sue the Government, at least we can change the Government', so well said Padaly. My salute to You.
When Singaporeans cannot change the Regime, they sure can learn from voters from Aljunied GRC and Hougang to have some nimcompoops sent off, sacked. There are many worse than George Yeo still formulating edicts on the people.
Some are slave driver, swee talker, sly marketeer and most take the people for granted.

Singaporeans should take Padaly's idea seriously, not that it will bring us much difference, however there certainly will result in less wanton policy implementation.

patriot

Matilah_Singapura said...

@The

Conscription is legal (but not necessarily moral).

If you are a conscript, you are already "property" of the state.

So if you die...too bad. (I know under the circumstances that might sound tad harsh).

Matilah_Singapura said...

@anon901:

>> Thats why government never apologise for the failed policies so far. <

Every government failure creates profit opportunities.

Governments don't and should never apologise for failed policies. If they do it is an admission of guilt, which opens up the floodgates to compensation, litigation etc.

Government is constant force and the threat of violence. It's nature is not to be "fair" or "nice" or "understanding" of your petty individual problems. If you think differently, then please run full speed into a concrete wall -- making sure your head gets a solid smack.

reddotsg said...

Political parties will come and go, but Nations will stay the same.

Got National Service? You say?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Steady lah Matilah. The more you post the more you sound like a minister.

Got prospect.

Matilah_Singapura said...

patriot:

>> Just like to say here that Matilah Singapura had lost his sense of proportion whence he equated peace time military training casualties to battle ground casualty.

Where did I imply that? My point is that once in NS, you are "property of the state". You have no option but to follow orders given to you.

>> Sad to note that live of our NS Men are so cheap in the eyes of some Singaporeans.

There's nothing you or anyone can do to change that FACT.

NS ma's life IS CHEAP --- why? Because it is taken under the threat of force, by law, which "cheapens" the lives of individuals because the system treats everyone as a NUMBER, not a living breathing farting shitting human being.

That being said, why the fuck should anyone give a flying shit at what happens to the cheap lives of NS men?

People, get real lah. No one cares!

Matilah_Singapura said...

Oh redbean, the only govt position I would take is Defence Minister.

I would bomb the fuck out of UM-NO?!?, capture their leadership then proceed to conquer and occupy Malaysia, and install a Chinese or Israeli puppet leader.

Got sense of humour?

patriot said...

No one will be surprised if i say i like the Reply Matilah gave to my comment. Many could have expected that Response.

Matilah will outperform any Cabinet Member past and current. The Fact is that none in the Cabinet can think like Matilah. However, he will never make a good Defence Minister. His forte is in making money and to make Sin rich, he should be the Prime Minister.

Matilah will achieve economic progress and the best of him will be his ability to make Sin rocks and Sinkies dancing to the music..

Give the Man his tiger and tigress.

patriot

Matilah_Singapura said...

The best way to make Singapore and Singaporeans rich, is to leave the the fuck alone and let them do what they like to make (or lose) money.

You don't need me to do that. The fact is: you don't need ANYBODY.

All the govt has to do is to arbitrate conflicts and uphold property and contract law...and you don't even need a government to do that.

Privatise EVERYTHING. That's the way you get the BEST PEOPLE to to the job and the most effective use of PRIVATE capital and resources.

Got free market?

Daemonic said...

I think this is not true. I always thought the claimants must first sue the officer-in-charge for negligence. Once, it is found that the officer is negligent then the claimants can proceed to sue the Government.

In any case, it is kiasi-ism that is preventing people from testing an injust situation by suing. Just like the $1 compensation for compulsory land acquisitions by the state. Even LKY, himself, admitted that if any of those owners had the balls to fight those land acquisitions all the way to the Privy Council, the state might had lost those cases. But none had the courage to stand up to bullying, sigh.