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5/24/2012

Making fallacious political statements



Everyday I am bombarded with points that Png Eng Huat is a NCMP reject, honesty or integrity in question, and WP is not respecting Hougang voters by insisting on offering them a reject. I am finding this line of thought a bit amusing and could be turned around and played up as well.

Notwithstanding that Png Eng Huat’s nomination to be NCMP is a totally different issue. Nothwithstanding that even if he was a reject by his CEC, lets look at how would this apply to the PAP candidate.

Desmond Choo was a reject by the Hougang voters in the last election, not rejected by his CEC. His predecessor was a reject over and over again by the Hougangkia. This is direct rejection by the voters, not something that is remote from the context of the election, to ask for the voters acceptance.

Next, why is WP not respecting Hougang voters and forcing them to accept a reject to a NCMP post? Or put it the other way, why is the PAP not respecting the Hougang voters and forcing them to accept candidates that have been found not good enough and have been rejected, in Eric Low’s case, over several GEs?

The other point is about integrity and commitment to serve the Hougangkia. Over the last 20 years, were the PAP there for the Hougang residents when its campaign line is ‘Always there for you?’ Yes, they were there, but many things that the Hougang residents needed and wanted were out of their reach while the PAP was there.

Would the same be the same again if the WP wins? Would Hougang be at the end of the queue for goodies and handouts? Would PAP respect the wishes of the Hougangkia and offer them a better candidate in the next GE and not another reject?

Political arguments are full of holes and can be twisted and turned to suit whatever purposes at the moment. Just bite on a little error or misquote a word, and don’t let go. Shaft the knife in and give it a twist to make sure it sticks. But most political arguments cannot hold water and are made only to score a few points for the moment, if they could agitate the emotions of the listeners. When one steps back, cool down, think about it, most political arguments are just plain hogwash, like mine : )

48 comments:

Anonymous said...

Is HARD TRUTHS an honest book?

Hougang voter said...

So Redbean, in essence what you're saying is that this by-election is a contest between two rejects. Maybe I should just spoil my vote. I don't want a reject representing me in Parliament.

Anonymous said...

Redbean, please explain slowly that one is claimed to be a reject for NCMP which is not an election, and one is officially rejected by the Hougang voters in a GE.

That would make it clearer and simpler to understand.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The first casualty of the by election is going to be Chee Hean. He is going the Chok Tong way.

Hougang voter said...

Sitoh in Potong Pasir was also rejected many times but in the end, he prevailed. I think, for once the WP is feeling very vulnerable in their stronghold, hence all the defensive posturings from their top brass.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Sitoh won by default because Chiam See Tong field a very weak candidate. Even then, the margin was so small. A stronger candidate would easily retain Potong Pasir.

Hougang voter said...

In a first-past-the-post system, a win by even 1 vote is still a win. Likewise, a defeat by even 1 vote still constitutes a defeat.

CST only has himself to blame for not nurturing a successor. In the end, the best he can give the poor residents of PP after being loyal to him for so long is his politically inept wife. Not surprising that PP voters rejected him. Likewise for Hougang, after all the trouble with Yaw, the best WP can come up with is an NCMP reject. No, Redbean I suspect the biggest casualty on Sat will be WP itself.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Hougang voter, I still put my money on WP to win.

There are just too many factors in favour of the WP. Desmond is a good chap but on the wrong side of history.

Anonymous said...

For those of you who are not familiar with Potong Pasir.

There was a lot of en bloc projects in Potong Pasir in the 5 years just prior to GE 2011.

2 rows of landed properties with maybe 15 households who have been there for 30 years.
Around the St Andrew's School area.
Were sold en bloc to developers.
Who built 4 to 5 apartment/condos housing about two to three thousand new households.

These new households swung the votes.

Anonymous said...

Png Eng Huat is a product reject internally from the company that made them, e.g, tainted milk powder rejected internally by QC Dept not fit for human consumption. He had only 1 vote support. Then the company put him up for sale again in HG after laying on the shelf for 1 year. He was also not truthful when confronted, saying he was not interested when in actual fact, it was CEC that rejected him.

That is the big difference. Of course, it is important for Chee Hean to point this out to consumers this important fact. Ultimately it is Hougangers who will select who to represent them to fight for their estate interest. If it is expired milk powder they desire, then so be it.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

My view on Potong Pasir is that Chiam made a poor choice and has to live with the blunder. The new comers could not have swung enough votes around. It was a seat lost not a seat won.

As for Png being not considered for NCMP, it was a decision of a few WP CEC members. Nothing to do with the voters decision.

Cannot compare that with tainted milk. Tainted milk belongs to the category that cannot be transparent, cannot explain, cannot tell....like how much to build a HDB flat, how much was lost,...like when a bank said 75% of employees are Singaporeans AND PRs but not telling how many are Singaporeans and how many are PRs.

Anonymous said...

And Chee Hean is very competent to pass comments on quality because .... ?

Are Singapore's borders sufficiently secured against fast limping terrorists like Mas Selamat?

Or do we need to buy more multi million dollar fighter jets?

Or bring in still more foreign experts to help our millionaire Ministers understand the difficulties of managing a small country?

Anonymous said...

GE 2011 Results - POTONG PASIR SMC

PAP - 7,973
SPP - 7,859
Spoilt - 242

Difference in votes between PAP and SPP is 114 votes.

The few thousand new households from the en bloc developments could swing the GE 2011 election results.

So could the 241 spoilt votes.

Bottomline:
Don't spoil your votes to register your protest.
Vote Opposition instead.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Technically you are right. Every vote counts. What could likely to happen in Potong Pasir is that the new voters will be split 50:50. And yes, that 100+ votes could make a difference in a close contest.

Anonymous said...

Respectfully redbean.
The new PP voters would likely follow the national average.
And vote 60:40 in favour of PAP.
Not 50:50.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Ah yes.

Anonymous said...

Why bring up ncmp issue in the first place? It is insignificant since ncmp not elected by the people. How effective can ncmp be in parliament? Aren't there bigger issues to resolve first. This is a distraction ploy.

Anonymous said...

well said. DC to lose his deposit !

Anonymous said...

Don't distract voters from Hougang with insignificant ncmp. Will this help singaporeans cope with inflation and ever rising cost of living on this tiny island?

Anonymous said...

Why talk about Mr Chiam? The by-election is at Hougang, remember? Again, flogging the dead horse, in this case ncmp.

Hougang voter said...

Harlow Anon 12.10. Maybe it is insignificant to you but to us the voters of Hougang, it is of the utmost importance. We need to know about the candidates who are asking for our votes. First time around, WP put up a person of questionable moral character. We didn't know, so we lan lan voted for him. This time it is good that their candidate has been exposed as a NCMP reject. So, if we vote him in and he underperforms, then we only have ourselves to blame.

Anonymous said...

Mr Chua, why bother answering this question at all? Ncmp in the first place was created by pap for their benefits. Ncmp are no threats to pap yet they want to use this to distract voters from real national issues affecting all singaporeans including the Hougang voters. A big joke.

Anonymous said...

And how will the result of Hougang by election resolve the inflation problem? Png got magic wand is it?

Sinkies are definitely daft said...

So typical of Sinkies. When they lose the argument, they sulk and say "Don't want to talk to you". Just like little children at the playground. No wonder the FTs are walking all over you.

A reject is a reject, no matter if it is for the post of NCMP or mahjong kaki.

Anonymous said...

You are speaking as if the ncmp is some kind of MP equivalent. Why not get to the point that pap got no other constructive solution to win over Hougang voters. Are you an Hougang (PAP) voter?

Anonymous said...

Anon 12.30, you daft or what? PAP is the incumbent government. They can do things WP can only dream of. It's a simple choice. Either Hougang vote for change and move forward with the rest of the country or choose to remain a slum.

Anonymous said...

Whether Mr Png get elected or not the ruling party is still the majority. A win by Mr Png is a wake up call by Singaporeans to the PAP to deal with inflation. The victors will be the voters.

Anonymous said...

Like what the old man says, we Singaporeans are daft. That means all of us.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hougang is the real turning point. If WP wins, it is a very strong message to the PAP that they need to change their policies to favour the Sinkies and the middle and lower income groups. If they choose to ignore this message, 2016 will be the end of PAP.

If PAP wins Hougang, it is a vote of confidence that PAP is doing the right thing and will go on and win the next GE.

Desmond Choo and Png Eng Huat are just pieces in a chess board but the finale is the end game, which player/party wins and what follows.

Anonymous said...

So, you admit, Png doesn't have a magic wand that can lower inflation. Inflation is a problem every country on this planet is facing. What does that tell you? What do we all have in a commmon? Answer: The fiat-based fractional reserve banking system. You're barking up the wrong tree. You want zero inflation? Go back to a gold standard monetary system. Problem is the IMF will not allow any country to do that. Any country that attempts to do that will instantly be transformed into a pariah nation. So, you see my daft Sinkies, WP/Png/Low/Sylvia and the entire WP+opposition rag tag team will not be able to solve the inflation problem any more than the PAP can. They'll make it worse yes, but they won't solve it.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

So you are saying that Desmond Choo can lower inflation like one minister claiming that opposition parties cannot bring down oil prices, as if he could.

The fact is that Desmond too cannot do anything about inflation. Even the minister and PAP also cannot do it. They could not even bring down property prices or hospital bills.

Please tell everyone here that Desmond Choo can.

Anonymous said...

Redbean, I don't want to call you daft, but can you read carefully what I wrote:

"...WP/Png/Low/Sylvia and the entire WP+opposition rag tag team will not be able to solve the inflation problem any more than the PAP can."

I never said Desmond or the PAP can. I specifically mentioned inflation is a problem caused by the fractional reserve banking system that all countries on the planet practice. Desmond won't be able to lower inflation but at least with his election as MP, long suffering Hougang voters will finally get some attention. Those Sinkies who want WP to win, maybe at the next election you vote in an opposition MP and see how fast your neighbourhood turns into a slum.

Anonymous said...

You are the daft one and calling Redbean daft. You are the one who brought up the issue of Png did not have the magic wand to bring down inflation.

Why brought it up when you know that Desmond would be equally dumb on this? dah dah.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1.30, this thread seem to be full of daft Sinkies. Go and read the entire comment thread. Anon 12.16 was the one who first raised the subject of inflation.

Anonymous said...

I truly find it amusing that there are people who think that because Low mentored Yaw for 10 yrs, he has to know Yaw's alleged affairs. Last I look, Low is still a human, not god. If Yaw did not tell Low about the affairs, I dont know how Low or anyone would know. And to those above, 'if' you are screwing around in your work place or around town, would you have shared the 'exploits' or affairs with your boss, friends, or even a stranger? If you said yes, you needed to get your head check.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mr Chua,

I too remembered that one Dr Lim said about the oil remark during GE06, but I was not able to find anything online.

Would love to find that for archive :)

Anonymous said...

try the discount ministar.

Anonymous said...

I disagree with redbean.

One shouldn't interpret too much if PAP doesn't win Hg. Hg has been a stronghold of WP - they are expected to win. The people in Hg like the atmosphere there- slow, balmy, kopi shops, no need pay extra costs because no upgrading, fewer FTs, all locals, kar ki nan, teochew nan, with LTK as Village Chief. In fact I will be very surprised if WP lose Hg.

If PAP wins Hg, it means something. It means Hg has waken up that WP has taken them for granted. Giving them quality rejects after another. Malfunction equipment.

Anonymous said...

fiat-based fractional reserve banking causes inflation??? this is the same as saying people who already own houses and cars do not feel the effect of rising property prices and COE costs..last i heard, Philippines is handling their inflation problem vey well.. i am quite sure they are not an international pariah and practise "fiat-based dun know what u are talking about " banking system..

Anonymous said...

Oh well, one shouldn't interpret the boast that PAP is always there for Hougang. Always there? You mean always there throwing spanners into the works that WP wanted to do?

Oh well, one shouldn't also believe what the PAP said about the WP taking Hougangers for granted. Taking away facilities after losing every election is not taking Hougangers for granted? They are indirectly alienating PAP supporters as well. And that is not taking Hougangers for granted? And they still expect to win?

If they win, something is really fishy going on.

Anonymous said...

I believe that that many PAP rejects from Hougang, Potong Pasir and now Aljunied GRC are still probably sitting on top of statutory boards and Government agencies.

So, what is the issue about rejects? It is just a matter of interpretation.

Anonymous said...

Haha. no wonder Fts are running over sinkies ...even locals would

Anonymous said...

Singaporeans who support an extremely well paid under-performing self-serving party undermining locals' interests, taking in lots of foreigners to replace Singaporeans do not understand the basic difference between Nationhood and Betrayal.

Self-enrichment of leaders from its population is a very bad vice not virtue.

Anonymous said...

Hahaha....
tainted milk and anything else are put into the market everywhere 'm the World by unscrupulous and foxy folks.
So, until one becomes the victim, no one can be sure of the quality of the product.
However, consumers, unless daft, should know it is not likely anywhere as touted.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Someone is still saying they are underpaid. It was lucky Aljunid went to the WP. Or else they would have given themselves a big pay rise instead of a pay cut.

Anonymous said...

Remember how they attacked Gomez? Sorry must also explain. At the end, must also say sorry and to explain.

Biting an innocent person like a pitbull is not a good thing to do.

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