9/27/2010

East Asia coming full circle

China is demanding that Japan apologises and pay compensation for the arrest of fishing boat captain Ding Xiping. Japan had detained him for 3 weeks before releasing him under intense pressure from China. For the uninitiated, Japan annexed the island with the Penghu island group and Taiwan after it defeated China in 1895. It also claimed war reparation and many other rights and territorial claims. It wrestled Korea as its colony and hundreds of tons of silver from China. The weak and defeated China could not do anything but resigned to its dismal fate. And Japan went on to rape China and extort more and more rights from her, creating all kinds of incidents for more apologies and demands. The Marco Polo Incident was etched deeply in the minds of the Chinese populace. The closest equivalent of power between China and Japan then is between Iraq and the US today. The US could do anything to Iraq without any credible response from the Iraqi people. Today Japan is till a powerful military state. But the equation of its military might vis a vis China is that of Germany or England vis a vis the US. The Japanese still did not realise that there is a mismatch of the power equation and not in its favour anymore. For every soldier the Japanese have, the Chinese have 1000. For every military aircraft or tanks the Japanese have, the Chinese have 100 more. The bow and arrow and big sword armies of the Qing Dynasty were long gone. Today China will be making demands and more demands for any Japanese incursion and violation of its territorial integrity. And China does not need to create any incident like the Japanese did. It only needs to claim back all its territories ceded to Japan during the days of gunboat diplomacy and unequal treaties. The Yakuzas in Japan still think that they can take on China in the battle field. They are dreaming. The China of today is even ready to take on the US if forced to defend its national interest and territorial integrity. If Japan still does not take heed, it will be China declaring war on Japan and demanding apologies and war reparation. Naoto Kan said it is unthinkable for Japan to apologise over this incident and that Diaoyutai is Japanese territory. Such a stand will have grave consequences as China will no longer accept the unjust treaties it signed under duress. China will not and cannot back down from this Japanese position or it will be seen as acceptance of the Japanese claim. Let’s see what China will do next.

22 comments:

Wally Buffet said...

Kansan will not apologize to China because he knows that giving in will mean more demands from it's giant neighbour soon.

The Japanese must now be wondering why they signed a declaration not to arm itself after World War 2. If it did not, I can assure you that they may not be an Iraq against the US or a match between Germany/UK and the US. They are very good at innovative electronics and in modern warfare, that's all there is to it. The days when you can send waves of soldiers charging up a hill to their certain death are gone.

Nowadays the PRC Chinese, even with the PLA is almost like us, Kiasi, Kiasu, Kiabo. Life is now too good for them. When you live a life of ease and abundance, charging up a beach or a hill is for the birds because some egoistic politicians say so is for the birds.

China should take advantage of Japan's current weakness and launch a pre emptive strike to recapture all of it's stolen territories. Delaying doing so may mean forever losing it because the Japanese may just not take it anymore and go back to it's militaristic ways.

Now where is my upsized BK meal?

Hehe.

Wally Buffet said...

Sorry guys, some typo error.

Paragraph 3 should read:

Nowadays the PRC Chinese, even with the PLA is almost like us, Kiasi, Kiasu, Kiabo. Life is now too good for them. When you live a life of ease and abundance, charging up a beach or a hill because some egoistic politicians say so is for the birds.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Japan has actually rearmed. The Self Defence Force is probably larger than all the armed forces of Asean combined. It only lacks aircraft carriers and long range bombers. Otherwise it is a powerful force. And that is why it is still so cocky.

But if the Japanese still think they can invade China or defeat China, they must be out of their mind. Even the Koreans could take on the Japanese headon and would not be a push over.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

I disagree with this observation. China, Japan and Korea are not simply countries. They are nations with their own civilisations.

Unlike us, a mixed bag of rojak that we don't even believe that we are a nation but a work in progress. The Chinese, Koreans and Japanese will fight to defend their countries.

I am not sure how many Singaporeans will do that, especially the newly minted ones.

Wally Buffet said...

I beg to differ from your first paragaph.

The JSDF is purely a Defensive force and I suspect, rigidly supervised by the US to ensure that the Japs do not ever go back to it's brutal militaristic ways. The memories of Pearl Harbour are never ever erased.

Please read the article on the JSDF HERE

One of the reasons why the Japanese are very good at military prowess is because of the samurai spirit. Every Japanese is born with it. It is ingrained in their nature. That accounts also for their unspeakable brutality towards the vanquished.

It is my opinion that had the Japanese not been limited with their military might, it is more an "Israel" in the East Pacific.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The restriction placed by the Americans did work to a great extent. But with China seen as America's number one enemy, the Americans are loosening their grip on Japan. We just do not know what the Japanese possess today. They may even have nuclear weapons or other forms of wmd.

Their samurai spirit is nothing more than yakuza spirit. They will turn to animals the moment they are in power. Never trust them. Remember Pearl Harbour and the massacre of Nanjing and the chemical factories where they used Chinese as guinea pigs.

Wally Buffet said...

Precisely my point.

These Japanese yakuzas are like animals once they don an offensive military uniform. So they must never ever be armed as such. The UN and their protector, the US must see to that, otherwise we will have a repeat of their grand designs in world war 2 for the Pacific basin.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

And don't trust the Americans either. The evil empire will sleep with the devil to get what it wants. They are now colluding with the Yakuzas on how to attack China.

Anonymous said...

Wow! fighter jets, aircraft carriers, submarines; charge up the hills, go into the jungle(natural and concrete), kiasi, kiabo!

So outdated! Now they cook you with microwave, radioactive wave and if they want to be cruel, bring some germs and viruses and let the enemies die terrible deaths. It cannot be ruled out that even terrorists can exact chemical and germ warfares anytime and anywhere. It may just happen in the US first for all we know.

And talking about war, me wonders a lot why our soldiers are sent to train in jungles abroad when in Sin the biggest jungle is like bush land in bigger countries.

Japan had created a storm in a teacup by detaining a captain of a fishing boat which had no weapon or espionage equipment. It was in cahoot with the US to irritate China and testing the Chinese reaction. All these are provocative, but me contend that China will not want any war with anybody until it is invaded territorially. China will maintain its' peaceful demeanour as long as it can. Of course if it forced to the last resort, me wish it will do it's best to take over the whole of that trouble maker and ends it once and for all.

We know there were skirmishes between India and China and the Latter ended all the fightings once justice was served. There was never any incursion by China into India, Pakistan or any other country. That's solid proof of a peaceful and great nation.

patriot

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Oh, the Americans are joining hands with the forces of terrorism too.

Anonymous said...

I would like to re-interate that what is past is past...

Post world war 2 international agreements and territorial boundaries must be adhere and respected...

Key Note: The Japanese have being trying to get their "Northern" islands for years from the Russians to no avail. And this are not "covered" by any post world war 2 international agreement.

Please remember folks...it is very easy to start a war...ending a war is very difficult...and what is worse...lousy losers who "has" the BOMB will resort to it to get a "victory" of a sorts...except by then too many who should not die are dead.

Please chew it over.

Only fools wants a war...and only idiots will support such a war...and finally what is the past is the past...can one change the past...to what cost?


Neutral party.

Anonymous said...

To patriot @ September 27, 2010 11:12 AM


Whether it is disputed territories or not...the post world war 2 treaty stated these islands belong to Japan...[Once countries stopped respecting these treaties...where will it end...Malaysia can claim Singapore is theirs because 20,000 years ago singapore was connected to KL/Johor...or the red indians in America can say the whole of Kansas is mine...or the Mexicans can stated california and texas are theirs too...or Germany can claim western poland belongs to them...etc etc...where will it end then?]

Please note that Chinese Boat Captain rammed those Japanese patrol boats..if you examine the photos...you will un-plesantly discovered the Japanese patrol boat has its side damaged by such a "criminal and murdering" act.

So you mean it is okay the Chinese Boat Captain rammmed you with a murdering attempt and should be "forgiven".

Please think it over.

And ask yourself who is benefiting from such a "created" incident.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The robbers and gangsters and yakuzas will agree with you. After robbing, pillaging and plundering a country and then forced the losers to sign away their land and wealth and told the losers to accept the fait accompli. Why can't the losers start reciprocate with a war like the aggressors did to take back their lost possessions?

The Red Indians or Japan could not take back their land because the robbers were stronger than them and they were powerless to fight back. The Temengong ceded Singapore to the British not because of a war.

What is so criminal about a naval incident when the boat captain was in Chinese territory and a foreign navy came to chase him? The Chinese never regard Diaoyutai as Japan's island. It is Chinese territory.

The criminal part is a foreign navy, in this case the Japanese, chasing the nationals of the island away from their own territory.

The treaty is legitimate, so is war. No country will allow its land to be taken from it by force and will take it back when it is able to do so. This message has been told to the Americans loud and clear.

China will go to war with any country infringing on its territories, including Taiwan and Diaoyutai.

Your position is might is right. The treaty signed then was based on this. What is wrong with China using its might to recover its own land?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Just a little bit of history. After WW2, the British returned Vietnam not to the Vietnamese but to the French. That led to the American tragedy of losing a war to the Vietnamese and many American lives.

The Americans too returned the Diaoyutai to the Japanese instead of to the Chinese. And a tragedy is going to happen again.

The British wrote a large tract of land belonging to China to India. Another tragedy will happen if India insists on claiming the land and not to return to China.

China does not covet any land that was not theirs in the first place. It has no dispute with its smaller neighbours like Bhutan, Myanmar, Thailand and Laos.

China is the only country that has not taken back its land lost to the colonialists and imperialists. Even small African countries have taken theirs back.

What is there to stop the Chinese to claim what is rightfully theirs? Or should they accept the robbery as good?

Just because the Red Indians did not do anything is not because they did not want their land back. But they are nearly extinct and unable to do anything. The same applies to the aborigines in Australia and the Kiwis in NZ.

Anonymous said...

To Anon 11:28

me find it ridiculous that a fishing boat captain would rammed his FISHING BOAT onto a (AN ARMOURED MILITARY) fighting ship.

Though not very clever, my normal faculty tells me the Japanese side of the Story was pure bullshit. And me has no doubt that the Japanese Authority is in cahoot with the US.

As for claims to territory; unless You Anon Sir, can tell me that the US, Australia, N Zealand do not originally belonged to some indigenous people. These are 100% looted by aliens. However, me does not care who owns them now.

All that me had commented was/is that China is a peaceful and friendly nation and history has the proof it was and will be a helpful nation to other countries.

Thank You Sir for the Response.

patriot

Anonymous said...

Hi Redbean

I've been reading your writings for quite a while now; much of which I find interesting and at times humorous! Keep it up!

p/s: your post today @12:00pm - I think you meant maoris in New Zealand!

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Thanks anon 4:38. Yes I meant maoris. It just slipped my mind then.

Anonymous said...

To Red Bean and Patriot...

You have to understand this...

You cannot use the past and those who died in the past to "un-make" or "make" a future.

To Red Bean...you mentioned might makes right?...the post world war 2 treaties were written by the "winners" of that war...if China was not supported by the US/British Empire/etc against the Japanese...China would have been in pieces post-world war 2...and pieces and more of it will be given away to the Soviet Union [Lucky the US/British stood by Nationalist China at that time]...and no matter who owns those islands...under post-world war 2 treaty they belong to Japan...and treaties must be respected...else where will it end...honestly who would want a war and to destroy all other international treaties that should be adhere to and respected...if strength is might...then China is just a bully...and who has been helping china's economy from the 1980's onwards...Japan too...so all that is discounted too?

To Patriot...

For your information...that is not a warship...it is a coastal patrol ship...the chinese trawler is almost the same size and closed to its displacement too...as to China being peaceful...yeah sure tell to the vietnam who had already "lost" 2 islands to China's physical occupation of it...please look at the territorial claims of China here...

http://www.asianperspective.org/articles/v31n1-f.pdf


Tell me...who is a bully now? And willing to use its "strength" to push weaker countries around...

You mean it is ok for China now to bully weaker countries because of the "past"...and a bully should be given leeway?

It is wrong to support a "bully" and there are major potential pitfalls to this "support" forced or willing...for everyone in this part of the world in the end.

Please think and re-think carefully is this acceptable to your values of what is right and wrong now and the future moving forward.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Anon 6:10,

The bullies, gangsters,yakuzas, the murderers would want to tell their victims, the past is past. Look at the present, we are all priests in suits and ties. We are no longer murderers or bullies.

They can say that to the Red Indian, the Aborigines. The former had been decimated and is fighting to save themselves from extinction. They will have to accept that. Unfortunately the bullies and murderers did not do a good job in China, in Korea, in the Middle East, in the sub continent. Tell them to shut up and forget the past? Possible if the bullies and murderers return the loot and repent. If they still want to keep the loot and be arrogant, just too bad. The victims will want to stamp their feet if they are able to.

During WW2 China paid its part to fight the Japs. But when come to sharing the loot, they got nothing except their country back with some still given to the gangsters and yakuzas.

Everyone wants to claim the islands in South China Seas. Australia also can lay claims and then denounced China for seizing them. The ownership of these islands is likely to belong to China when they claimed them in historical time. So, do the other countries have a stronger legitimate claim?

Anonymous said...

And as i have re-interate in my post...

You cannot make a future or "un-make" the past because of past "wrongs"...especially based on international laws and as signatories of past international agreements...

By "disregarding" international treaties and "bullying" your way through with "threats" & using the spectre of "economical war/strength" [which the west and Japan gave so "much" rope which in the end they will be "hung" from]...how will it end?...and will continue in the future if international agreed rules & laws are disregarded blatantly...

Do kind note there is an UN international court for this "territorial issues"...do please note China has "made" it absolutely clear it will not "allow" its claims with the various countries in this part of the world to be "brought" to the world court to make a 'judgement' or else...it does shows what the "new elite" in China's government deciding...and this "new elite" ain't so "hot" about human rights or the dignity of being a human being [except for themselves, their cronies and their families]...it is there...just "hidden" in plain sight...

It is important to see the actions of China [and the new elite policies] and to re-think it over carefully what are "these" people "exactly" trying to do...is it for a personal agenda or some other "hidden" agendas or plain bullying [might is right]...we need assess moving forward for the good of many then for the few and do it from the heart and also not from a racial biases...

Because whether we "like" it or not...many of us are from a common humanity descended from only a small number of the same mothers from africa [factually based on the DNA mapping done over the past 15 - 20 years]...all of us of whatever races shared the same genetic gene strands unqiue to these ancestors...

We can either be better for it by doing the rational right thing...or worse supporting for the sake of supporting a wrong. A wrong done in the past and to correct it now does not make it right especially if one uses "actual" threats to do it..

We steadfastly not allow "actions" of others who "forced" or "manipulated behind the scenes" for self serving agendas to benefit the few at the expense and sacrifice of the many. No matter what...

The current "leaders" of China are the new elite..and their thought processes are shaped in the environments they originally came from [no amount of liberal or western elite educations will make them thing of the common good in the end]..and do note over the recent years by their actions of their lower flunkies shown how they "see" and "consider" those of a lower station or can be "used" or "manipulated into" as actually lower order living human forms or lower "class/caste"...

and whatever Wen Jiabao says...do take note it can be a red herring to get the unthinking and passion of the "masses" on his/elite side toward/untowardly.

All of us are better then be "taken" in by these "people"...

We should be all that we can be...not "dictated", "conditioned" nor "manipulated/fixed" or "bluff by propagande" to be what others "demand/wants" us to be.

We are not slaves, peasants or serfs...we are 1st and foremost human beings...and all of us shared that common humanity.

And we owned it to ourselves to make it true, factual and right for the infinite rather then the finite.

Good day.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

I totally disagree with your rationale of the Sino Japanese dispute. You take the position that whatever had been done cannot be reversed even if they were unfair. You chose to look at the skin of history, only today and ignored the injustice of yesterday.

China will not take the dispute to court simply because it was a legal treaty it was 'forced to sign under duress' which the court will ignore.

China will want to take back its lost territories peacefully or the same way it was taken from her.

Your version, you put a knife at your neighbours neck and forced him to sign away his patch of garden to you. 20 years later, his children have grown up and want it back, you said not, because his father signed a legal document.

I say, his children shall ask your children to return the garden politely. If your children refused to, and want to fight, his children should put a knife on your children's neck and force them to sign back the garden.

My form of justice is natural justice. Your form of justice is that you can snatch other people's property and they cannot snatch it back.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

What is the basis of the claims to the islands in South China Sea? Historical records, proximity, occupation, EEZ?

The Chinese were the first to visit these islands and marked them in their maps during the Han and Ming Dynasties. The littoral states of South China Seas were still in a very early stage of their social and economic stages. They were not states at that time and neither did they have the capabilities to navigate and sail to these islands. They didn't even know their existence.

Malaya or Malaysia only became a state after independence in the 1950s. When the British colonised Malaya, was there a state called Malaya? The land was there.

And this applies to most of the other states making claims to the islands. Were they states then when the Chinese were sailing the high seas, marking all the islands in the region?

Just because they mount some spurious claims do not make the islands theirs.