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8/24/2010

The Philippines commando assault

Against one gunman holding hostages in a tourist bus, the Filipino commandos launched an assault against the gunman who was a disguntled ex police officer. They killed him and at the same time killed 8 Hongkong tourists and wounded several others. They think they are Rambos or Israeli commandos? Or there are more to it than just a simple trigger happy troops thinking they are Hollywood heroes? Hongkong should put a ban on their tourists visiting Philippines for a year and demand compensation and an apology from the Filipino govt. The assault was not only uncalled for but badly executed.

44 comments:

Wally Buffet said...

A banana republic rescue attempt.

That's where our nurses, maids, seamen, construction workers, bar hostesses come from remember?

I won't even step into that country if the trip was fully paid let alone going there at my own expense and at risk of death as a tourist. And I thought the Hongkies were smart people.

Don't worry, the Hongkies are very litigious people unlike Sinkapooreans and they will want a full accounting for this debacle together with compensation.

And the "Morondos" should be sent back to boot camp to train and execute hostage rescue situations without shooting the hostages as well. Fuck! These imbeciles can't even shoot at the right target. The gunman must be laughing all the way to the grave knowing that these Morondos did the job for him.

In a way, the gunman is vindicated because we now know how incompetent the Organisation he once belonged to is.


Hehe.......Haha.

Wally Buffet said...

It seems that Hong Kong just banned all travel to the Banana Republic.

Shouldn't we do likewise?

Matilah_Singapura said...

Putting the emotional (non-rational) aspects of “macho” Filipino male culture aside (just look at their male-centered movies – guns, babes and hard-core violence) consider the facts:

1. Regardless of the issues the ex-cop had with the state, his quarrel is with the state, not with innocent tourists

2. A hostage situation where automatic weapons are involved is a “life boat” situation – i.e. all bets are off in a sense as the objective is to remove the threat as soon as possible by whatever means necessary.

3. In a hostage (life boat) situation, the hostages are already “dead” in a sense that they don’t have the appropriate ability to exercise their free-will to remove themselves from the threat.

4. Therefore the objective, as difficult as it may be is to kill the kidnapper if reasonable attempts at negotiation fail to achieve anything.

5. If any hostages are killed in the raid, then it is unfortunate and tragic. You cannot hold the govt (or any “liberator”) responsible for hostages being killed in a life-boat situation.
6. If the govt didn’t act, the kidnapper may have executed or harmed hostages or innocent by-standers or police. If that had occurred there would have been a public backlash : “Why didn’t the cops fire on the kidnapper? Because the govt didn’t act, now others have been harmed or killed”.

Causality for Dummies -- let's make it simple as A-B-C

Humans instinctively want “easy answers” to everything and they are very bad at handling “uncertainty”.

Life is extremely fragile. Anything can happen to any of us for any reason or no reason at all at anytime. The human mind has difficulty in accepting this – statistics and probability are not “intuitive” to us as our brains seek simple-to-understand “causal” models of the world. i.e. “if this happens, such-and-such should be the “right” action to deal with the situation”.

We are also very bad at dealing with “life boat” situations – those unfortunate circumstances when normative standards cannot apply. E.g. if you see a drowning person in a raging torrent of water is it “moral” for you (untrained and not a “rescuer” in a professional capacity) to jump in and save the person? Not so easy. What are your standards and values? If you have a family and dependents would it be “moral” for you to try to save that person and possibly not succeeding and drowning yourself? What then about your own kids and family who if you died by your own choice in this situation now have to face grief and hardship?

There’s no easy answer to this one. Calling for tourists to boycott the Philippines is completely irrational at best and at worst just plain downright fucking stupid.

I would have expected better from redbean, who appears to fancy himself as an arbiter of morality and moral action, but unfortunately he gives away his "game" by resorting to ad hominem attacks and emotional wailing.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Matilah, who is your 'we'? Aussie we or sinkie we?

Our commandos had done it, with no casualty. Even the procedures were awfully wrong. Heard of stun grenade? Heard of sniper when the kidnapper is in a transparent bus?

One stun grenade with sharp shooters ready to shoot is enough to take the kidnapper down. Maybe you can't understand. Oh, you done your NS!

We should send our boys to teach them how to do it right : )

Anonymous said...

Prataman: Thank God my day of volunteering as hostage is over - time to enjoy my millions

Anonymous said...

Yeah, send our boys to teach them how to catch white elephants.

Even German police and snipers fail to rescue the Israeli hostages taken during the Munich Olympic Games due to miscalculation, what more can we expect from Philippine police.

Anonymous said...

We do not have all the facts nor the circumstances. Even with the best team on the job do not guarantee saving the hostages, whether one or all. With the best of intentions, I doubt the Filipinos would want to jeapordise the lives of the innocents nor their own. To give them the benefit of the doubt, I suppose they did their very best.

I think the remarks made about the country and their people is regrettable. It is not a surprise that many foreigners view us as Ugly Singaporeans, when we have such boorish attitudes, not mindful of the sensitivities of others? Why do we look down on Filipinos because many came here to work to seek a better life? I have live there for 10 years and I have come across many wonderful people who showed kindness, hospitality and love. There are many Filipinos who excel and carve names for themselves and one of them was in Singapore recently, Manny Pacquiao. When will we learn humility and to practice humanity for weaker people. Being educated and wealthy does not entitle one to be called civilised if one is so self-centred.

Look around you and see how the typical Singaporeans behave. Littering, pretend to be asleep so as not to give it up to the less-abled, inconsiderate driving, blocking the way oblivious to others trying to move past, talking loudly in public, etc. Look at ourselves in the mirror please.

I am sorry if anyone here is offended, but I see this everyday and it is not pleasant. Even my daughter's classmates comes into my house and ignore us, her parents. I was brought up to wish strangers when I visit their home and be polite to my elders, and I am teaching my kids the same. Apparently many parents were ill brought up, so their kids too behave like them.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

I must apologise on behalf of Wally.

The situation in this case is a tourist bus in the open with one ex police officer. Though the police officer had some grievances, his demands were not excessive or could be accepted just to get the hostages out of the way. The kidnapper was no terrorists out to kill.

And if there was a need to take him down, it is not easy but not the way it was done with so many casualties. I have spoken to an expert who just shook his head in disbelief. The bottom line, they bungled it like hell.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

By Karl Malakunas
Agence France Presse

MANILA ¡ยช Philippine police conceded Tuesday they made blunders in ending a bus hijacking as outrage grew over the bloody assault played out on live television that left eight Hong Kong tourists dead.

Commandos fired dozens of bullets into the bus and smashed its windows with sledgehammers as they tried to storm it, but were then forced to wait outside helplessly for over an hour as the hijacker used his captives as human shields.

The ordeal in Manila¡¯s tourist district on Monday finally ended when the police fired tear gas into the bus and a sniper shot the gunman in the head, but by that time eight of the tourists on board had been killed.

Amid a building storm of criticism from Hong Kong¡¯s government and people around the world who watched the shoot-out live on television, Manila police commander Leocadio Santiago admitted mistakes had been made.

¡°We saw some obvious shortcomings in terms of capability and tactics used, or the procedure employed and we are now going to investigate this,¡± Santiago said on local television.

He and President Benigno Aquino promised to probe all aspects of the 12-hour ordeal, which began when a disgruntled sacked policeman armed with an M-16 assault rifle hijacked a bus carrying 25 people, mostly Hong Kong tourists....

The above was from AFP.
The fact is that the police officer was a model officer. He only demanded an investigation into his sacking. Was this so difficult to accept? He did not demand for $100m or the release of terrorists or things that were unacceptable.

Or was someone trying to silent him?

Matilah_Singapura said...

The claim that the officer "was a model officer" is as laughable as it is dangerous.

If holding people hostage are the actions of "model" officers (just another stupid label), then there's no hope for the Mahbuhay Cops.

In nature/ life, there are only actions, which lead to consequences. Whether it is sub atomic particles, plate techtonics or human action, opinion, theory or analysis-after-the-fact is subjective and non-existent. What counts is action, and only action.

Oh it is nice and fuzzy to consider "intent" and "humanity" and "people's problems" but the humans choice to act is the one which counts.

The kidnapper was a total idiot taking the tourist bus and its passengers hostage.

The fact that his "grievance" was such a small-time incident only adds to prove that this idiot was not a "model officer" as that asshole journalist would suggest with the "power" of his pen.

Police all over the world are constantly being criticised for "brutality" and "heavy handedness" and in many cases the accusations are warranted.

As with every agency of govt, the fact that the police are inept frequently comes as no surprise to me.

In fact when I saw the news where the cop said "We don't want to use force" I siad to myself "Bullshit. The kidnapper is going to be shot". Cops are trigger happy, get used to it. Solution: don't antagonise the police. Bad idea.

Even worse is the idea that people expect the police (or the govt) to be "neat and tidy" in their actions.

Bullshit. It is wise to expect any implementation of policy to be messy and full of cock-ups -- in this case HK tourists killed simply for being there.

Naturally people feel outraged. But to blame to cops is to complain about govt "services" which is a waste of time anyway.

The guy to blame is the kidnapper -- the disgruntled so-called "model" police officer. Whilst we might understand his frustration, no one can rationally EXCUSE this guy for doing what he did.

He deserved to be shot. He's an idiot, and the human gene-pool just got a little bit stronger from the removal of this guy's genes from our species.

Fuck him. Model officer, my two hairy balls.

Matilah_Singapura said...

I hereby nominate Rolando Mendoza for A Darwin Award

Matilah_Singapura said...

Ah, that macho Pinoy gun-culture trims the herd of inferior genetic material.

Nature. Priceless :-)

Shared Winners, Pinoy-style

Loko loko! Putang ina. Bang bang! 2 Pinoy less!

Wally Buffet said...

Gee.....thanks Mr. Bean but what exactly are you apologizing on my behalf for?

To be honest, I am not exactly thrilled to have 100,000 more of them here and say "Bunk" instead of "Bank" "Buck" instead of "Back". Since I am reasonably fluent in Singlish, the next exotic language I want to learn is Pinglish.

Hehe.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Ahem.

Calling Philippines banana republic when it is not. They not that bad lah. A banana republic is as good as a goner.

Wally Buffet said...

I have a bunch of "Delmonte" bananas at home. Big and yellow perfect bananas and it I was told by the supermarket employees that it was grown in the Republic of Philippines. So out of innocence I said banana republic. Cannot ah?

OK, Ok, I stand corrected.

Anonymous said...

If the Incident was indeed only involving a lone gunman, who according to reports, had allowed some of his captives free, then me would like to say that the Case was poorly and badly handled.

Me thinks the Hijacker was not a trigger happy chap since he did set free some hostages before the Police Actions.

Will comment further later, however me likes to call upon Singaporeans not to be agitated and blanketly blame the Phillipinoes due to this unfortunate incident.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

He was just an unhappy good cop being unfairly dismissed. He only wanted his job back and is asking for an investigation on his dismissal.

Would such a man have intention to kill? He was forced to kill, and the police wanted to kill him, that led to such a tragedy. He did not deserve to be killed.

The anger is on the bunch of incompetence that killed the cop, their comrades in arms, and the tourists. I don't think people are angry with the Filipinos in general.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

And thanks Wally.

Just to note, we have readers and contributors from all over the world, including America and Europe in this blog.

Wally Buffet said...

Good morning Mr. Bean.

I don't understand what you meant by noting that we have readers and contributors from all over the world including America and Europe in this blog leh.

Maybe I am missing something here but are you suggesting that since what we write is being read by these blokes that we must take a condescending attitude and comment with politically correct views? Or are you afraid that Sinkapooreans may be perceived as really "boorish" as one fine and "civilized" gentleman has suggested?

Please let me know what exactly you meant before I comment further.

Thanks bro.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Morning Wally,

With the world reading our blogs, we need to be more specific or rubbing up wrong people. Those deserving of whacking, we should whack. I still said the police had bungled.

I also have to restrain myself from being too generalised.

Cheers.

Wally Buffet said...

Hehe,

Thanks for the explanation but I don't buy it.

When you write anti American stuff, are you rubbing the general American public the wrong way?

I believe that if we have the balls to write, we must also have the gumption to stand by our views, no matter how bias or "boorish". Each and everyone of us is entitled to our opinion. My dream is for you to follow the example of TR and let everyone, save the outrageously profane, have their say.

Americans and Europeans reading this blog? I really don't give a chicken's ass. With your consent of course as it's your blog. But do note that the CIA, FBI, Mossad, M15, ISD, ISI etc. etc. may also be reading your blog.

Cheers!

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Oh, I never censor my blog except profanity and racism that can incite hatred. I respect everyone's view and I thought you did not intent to generalise. My apologies.

The Americans are power crazy, thinking that they are the Empire. But there are exceptions of course, a minority in that. I would like the Americans to challenge my views on their ambition and what they are doing around the world to protect their number one imperial ambition.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Oops, I also often generalised by calling Asians and Africans stupid, in a provocative manner : )

Anonymous said...

As the hijacker had only a simple demand and since he was alone, given time he will be overcome easily. He had to drink, eat and shit, he has to rest and sleep. He would be overwhelmed by tireness and lack of sleep and probably will have to surrender himself eventually.

So, why he(hijacker) had to be subdued in the manner it was done is beyond comprehension.

It was an unbelievable bungle and the Phillippines Authority with its many years of dealings with the MNLF has proven that it is absolutely useless.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

That is the real problem. They were treating him like a terrorist and needed to be apprehended or even killed.

The guy was just asking to get his job back! And they could not differentiate him from a dangerous terrorist and treated him as one.

Wally, this is moronic, I agree.

Wally Buffet said...

OK Mr. Bean,

Glad you understand.

I have one more request to make.

In future, if you see any of my comments that are inappropriate for your blog which also caters to the international audience as I have been reminded, kindly DELETE it.

Please do not apologize on my behalf because I have the balls to stand by what I say.

Also, all my comments are not whims of fancy that I thought out while sitting on my throne every morning reading the Shit Times. They are considered words and I take what I say seriously.

Similarly, you should also not apologize for the fine gentleman who obliquely referred to me as "boorish" because I am absolutely for free speech and everyone is entitled to their opinion. That's what we have been clamouring all along isn't it?

Thanks mate and cheers.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Wally,

At times let me be diplomatic can or not: )

Wally Buffet said...

Mr. Bean,

You're cute!

Can, Can of course can.

Burp! Excuse me. I just had my breakfast. Wow! that big yellow banana is now very difficult to swallow and taste really funny!

Maybe these morons can't even grow a proper banana! Haha.

Hehe.

Anonymous said...

Wally Sir;

It was not a rescue attempt(yr First Comment). It was target practice and even then, not much accuracy.

Utterly disappointed with the Philippino Authority. No wonder, it is perpetually in chaos.

Also wonder why the Philippines Authority did not involve Hong Kong Authority whose citizens were the victims(hostages). Are the Philippines so proud and poor at diplomacy or did it over-rated its own capability?

The result was utterly dismay, however, let us focus more on our own national flaws.

Me taking a Tiger and going to sleep. Have a nice day folks !

patriot

Wally Buffet said...

Hehe

Patriot,

I thought your "poison" of choice is Guinness?

Have a good sleep and hope you dream of how you would have handled the standoff better than the morons.

Anonymous said...

Wally;

patriot takes Tiger to cool down when the weather is hot and when the blogs he reads also cause him heartbreaks.

Recently stopped Guiness because his tummy experienced upsets a few times consecutively.

Before the Laju Laju Case, me was going through some theoretical mind games over the subject of hijack myself for the fun of it. Got to say, it's no simple stuff.

patriot

Anonymous said...

Errr..What is this about?Everyone talking like its a simple task.
Could it be that the ex cop had killed the 8th victim and the sniper came in time to gun him down and save the rest from being killed.May be the commando will claim that during the investigation.Or it could be a fact.Then they are hero mah.
TV footage showing him his family member being arrested for possession of firearm while on the way for negotiation could have made the ex cop lost his patience.

What is the purpose of this discussion?Boasting your country's cop more capable meh?Or your country very peaceful ah?
I am not a professional and not at the scene so I can't say whether can the case be more properly handled......My friend has that impression so I have to buy a sinmin to know nmore about it.

Nevertheless,I still like banana.I still miss Quezon city.I still miss my ex.Given a chance I will still visit,but not during the 7th month.
Travel at your own risk if you choose to travel during the 7th month.Surprise that Hongkongers choose to ignore that.My sympathy goes to the victims and their families.

Anonymous said...

A shallow and despicable mind will equate the botched rescue attempt of the Philippines police with those of their fellow countrymen. Singapore is more akin to being called a Banana Republic than Philippines which has more democracy.

My sympathies goes to the families of the victims. Hopefully the Philippines Government will take firmer and decisive action to bolster the security of the country and promote a better image of their country. The fallout and subsequent damage to their reputation is immeasurable and it will take time for wounds to heal. Let this be a lesson from which they can take stock of how important a country's reputation is, and the negative perceptions other nations have of their country.

Wally Buffet said...

You're absolutely correct. It's all about perception, perception and perception.

My perception is that they only grow good bananas and export reasonably competent maids and pub waitresses of which I have met many.

I am shallow. I am despicable. But I have the balls to identify myself.

What about you?

Wally Buffet said...

Patriot,

This bungled incident could have really been a walk through the park.

All that disgruntled ex policeman wanted was a fair and thorough investigation into his abrupt dismissal. He didn't asked for 10 billion pesos or a jet to fly him to Timbuktu. He wasn't shooting anyone. In fact, from TV footage you could even see him having a friendly chat with a negotiator. He seemed amiable but unstable.

A top man, preferably the Chief himself could walk to the bus, hands up to show his sincerity, speak with the man, give him a bear hug and promise to look into his grievances. The hostages would be released and every one would be alive and happy. The man don't need to die. Whatever he was remiss, the fact still remains that he was a good cop once. Everyone makes mistakes.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Wally;

if You read Comment by Anon on Aug 24, 2010 at 1050pm and on Aug 25, 2010 at 1051 am. You will find that we share almost similar sentiments. Those were comments that me posted anonymously.

patriot

Wally Buffet said...

Hehe,

Patriot my bro. you have been astroturfing!

But it's ok.

Actually I know it's you because you always use "Me".

hehe.

Anonymous said...

Your understanding of the term Banana Republic is way out. Using a pseudonym is not an identification you moron. I call you that as you like to call others morons too.

Wally Buffet said...

Hehe,

Why are you so strung up?

Relac bro.

I became a "moron" when you were still sucking your milk bottle so beat it.

Anyway sorry I've heard the feelings of your Pinoy mother or girlfriend.

A pseudonym registered with google is still better than an "Anonymous" nobody anytime. I put a stamp on everything I say. You? One of the nameless shadows lurking on the net, some brains that need polishing but definitely no balls.

You started off civil enough when you wrote:

"I think the remarks made about the country and their people is regrettable."

then you became a little bit more violent:

"A shallow and despicable mind will equate the botched rescue attempt of the Philippines police with those of their fellow countrymen."

and now you're suddenly afflicted with the kind of psychosis that Mendoza suffered:

"Your understanding of the term Banana Republic is way out. Using a pseudonym is not an identification you moron."

I think if you have an assault rifle, you would truly lose it as what Mendoza did.

What an asshole.

Wally Buffet said...

Hehe

Errata:

"Anyway sorry I've heard the feelings of your Pinoy mother or girlfriend."

should be:

"Anyway sorry I've hurt the feelings of your Pinoy mother or girlfriend."

I'm going for a massage and a Latte. When I come back, I'll see what nasties you've in store for me.

Hehe.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi guys,

Ok you have both slapped each other. Let's call it quits and continue with our chat without becoming nasty to one another.

Cheers.

Anonymous said...

The Filipino police should not get carried away and abuse the power vested in them. They are to look after peace and order and not to serve any private agenda.

And of all things, do not blow it out of proportion. A police force that acts foolishly will lose its credibility in the eyes of the people.

Matilah_Singapura said...

wally buffet:

> He wasn't shooting anyone. In fact, from TV footage you could even see him having a friendly chat with a negotiator. <

TV footage is selective at best, and presents only a "snapshot" from pre-chosen angles at particular times. Situations chage over time. TV fotage is also edited, which means vital info can be deleted. The presentation in TV footage is not "the truth", apply the neccesarry skepticism.

And the same applies to other news reports -- print, internet, first-hand accounts...whatever.

Some reports suggest that the gunman did start shooting at people. The undenial fact remains that he THREATENED to shoot people if his demands weren't met.

A "life or death" threat is not one to play "let's call his bluff" -- it must be taken as a signal of positive intent.

Sure, the Pinoy cops might have bungled the whole thing, but our humanoid species loves to construct the appropriate narrative after-the-fact to explain messy, complex and complicated situations by apportioning blame to some party.

That being said, I'll do the same :-) The gunman was the cause of this nonsense.

Pinoy culture -- banana republic notwithstanding -- is complex. The guys love their guns and "macho" behaviour like banging chicks and getting high.

But karaoke is also big in Pinoy culture. Perhaps (after the fact) it could have come to a non-lethal outcome if the gunman and the cops battled it out in a Pinoy karaoke singing competition...

Now that would have been fun, and a lot safer for those HK tourists.

Anonymous said...

The Police's job is to save life(live).
The army's duty is to destroy enemy.
The Hijacker and the tourists were not enemies.
Can't the Fillipios Government tell the difference ? How to govern the country like that ?