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6/03/2010

Praying for abundance

The City Harvest Church is in the limelight for the wrong reasons, and many quarters are pointing an intimidating finger at it. Some remarks were not very pleasant. I have heard a little about what CHC is doing and the very positive comments by the believers on what they are doing, and the wonderful pastor in Kong Hee. I look at CHC as a revolutionary church, one that is taking the Christian movement to a new age. When wealth is everywhere, there is no need for poverty. Yes, we should be praying for abundance, give more and receive more in return. Generosity will be rewarded. There is no necessity today to want to be poor, to live in a state of poverty as a precondition to go to heaven. Why should people who work hard for what they have be wrong because they are too rich, and theoretically should not be in heaven. This concept or belief will rule out many of the successful people from being in the company of God. Let's celebrate wealth and richness. Let's be rich and live a good life of abundance. Let there be no guilt for living well and wanting to live well. And with wealth, many good things can be done, to be generous and kind to the less fortunate. Without wealth, it is difficult to even offer help and assistance. Wealth and abundance are good. Many non Christians are practising this all their lives. My parents too have been visiting temples to pray for abundance. Many of other religions or no religion too have been visiting houses of worship to pray for wealth and abundance. I am no exception. Anyone think that it is wrong to pray for abundance and live in abundance? Anyone does not want to live a life of abundance and want to live like Mother Teresa?

12 comments:

Wally Buffet said...

The founder of the christian religion, Jesus must be proverbially turning in his grave to see it degenerating into myriad sects with charlatans purveying redemption in return for a full tithes basket.

Organized religion has become an organized business. Mesmerize the congregation and all those fools will give until they break their hearts and start to cry. How melodramatic!

Showmanship, fakery and panache will not convince me that I am giving for a just cause or that my money will be used to alleviate someone's suffering. Instead, I am more convinced that it will enrich some people's private coffers instead.

The next time you are at a foodcourt and you see an old lady going around hawking tissues, give your donations to her instead even though she committed a little sin of marking up her tissues by 200%.

Everyone wishes to live in abundant wealth sometimes forsaking abundant health. Trouble with money is, the more you have, the more you want. To have enough to live comfortably is the ideal but alas, Man being man will always clamour for obscene and ill gotten wealth.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Jesus led a group of very poor and outcast of society, and poverty was their way of life. Religion in a way was like a drug, giving hope to those who have nothing, to have more in heaven later. The rich practised their religions of abundance on earth.

Today, the rich are also practising Christianity. It is difficult to ask them to give away their riches and live the lives of the poor to earn the right to go to heaven.

And not many got their wealth from ill gotten means. There are legitimate means, professional means, selling skills and expertise, etc etc. I am very sure many good people are with CHC and earn their abundance through ethical means.

Matilah_Singapura said...

You are talking about “prosperity gospel” – which is all you say it is – trying to reconcile new age spiritualism, abundance and chrisitan values and beliefs.

And of course, the result is a confusing mess, but appeals to many people especially in uncertain times.

My personal opinions about religion are well-known. For those newbie and of piqued interest, a visit to my blog will sort of “give you a feel” for what I’m about :)

I am an “equal opportunity offender” when it comes to religious and other mystical spiritual beliefs. However I also hold that people are free to believe what the want and engage in any private activity as long as the rest of us still retain the choice to ignore them and are not involuntarily affected by their actions and beliefs.

So CH or Benny Hinn or whatever ding-dong “god is love and money” church and their followers are welcome to celebrate their stupidity and pray to some invisible angry asshole who apparently lives everywhere, all the time.

Fuck em. Let them enjoy :) BTW, fuck Mother Theresa too --- but make sure to but a paper bag over her head :0

Anonymous said...

I wanted to say something, but I now rest my case.

Kaffein said...

The only requirement according to the bible for a person to have eternal life is this: Believe in Jesus Christ. I don't know where the other prerequisites eg. poverty came about.

The Greek word for 'salvation' which Jesus used is 'zoe'. If you read the meaning of it, it encompasses to be saved, healing, wholeness, prosperity and health. If we who are humans know how to give good things to our children, how much MORE does our Father in heaven?

If you have a choice to have both wealth and health, would you take both? Of course. If Jesus died to give you both wealth and health, would you take it? I sure would. Well, if any of you readers here don't want your prosperity (be it from God or an inheritance), I will gladly take it... anytime. Don't worry I won't feel even a tinge of regret or condemnation.

For the naysayers, if we are so vocal about abundant wealth, next time should a job promotion opportunity come up, please pass it by and give to other more 'greedy' colleagues and let them be condemned. For you at this moment, it is good and holy for you to have just enough so you won't be greedy.

LOL :)

Cheers,
Kaffein

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Jesus said, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:24. Similar verses are in Mark 10:25 and Luke 18:25).

Ok, not that a rich man cannot go to heaven. But it would be much more difficult than a camel passing through the eye of a needle. He has his wealth to worry about. But he must put God before his wealth.

Matilah_Singapura said...

Exactly. That is why the Bible is bullshit, and Jesus was a fraud.

Christianity is based on theology -- the theory of made-up stuff trying to explain made-up stuff.

In other words, you can make the bible mean anything you want it to me: justify killing, war, slavery, polygamy, etc etc etc.

But, people have the right to believe nonsense and give their money away to the purveyors of nonsense:

"You can't cheat an honest man".

Kaffein said...

Dear friend Chua, I am quite sure you have misinterpreted the bible verse “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:24. Similar verses are in Mark 10:25 and Luke 18:25).

If going by your words, then Jesus have contradicted God because the bible also tells me God made Abraham very rich. What about Solomon when God told him that because Solomon asked for wisdom, God gave him riches and honour too.

If you read the passage carefully, Jesus was saying those who are rich towards themselves but not rich towards God (ie always looking at their own efforts to achieve and also justify themselves) will never enter.

Jesus never said rich people cannot enter heaven. One can be a poor person and yet think about money day and night. Such a man is so full of himself (and not looking towards God for his providence), this person will never accept Jesus because he is a self-made person.

Also going by your words about being rich, then Zacchaeus disqualified himself. The truth was Jesus proclaimed 'Today salvation has cometo this house.'

Let's take this discussion a bit further:

Jesus said those parts of our bodies which cause us to sin (eyes, hands, etc) should be removed. It is better for anyone to be maimed and enter the kingdom than for the whole body to be thrown into the lake of fire.

Does it mean Christians are all amputees?

Of course not! Jesus is setting the standard that anyone who trusts in himself and his own works to enter heaven will fail. He is telling the Jews that the Law condemns the best of us. Hence Grace through Jesus came so that whomever believed in Him will enter the kingdom. Grace saves the worst of us all.

I hope what I have written will cause you to rethink those verses. I am not defending the gospel. I have nothing to prove. I'll leave it to you to see it for yourself.

Cheers,
Kaffein

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Dear brother Kaffein,

I think you have misinterpreted what I wrote. I never said that the rich cannot go to heaven. According to Jesus, it is more difficult. Jesus also did not go against the God by asking his followers to be poor except on one occasion when he told the fishermen to give up what they were doing and follow him.

One thing for sure, his congregation was poor and mostly poor people.

Anonymous said...

If praying and prostration bring prosperity and peace, me would have been on all four for all, even if meself is not allowed to ever stand and gain from the blessings.

patriot

Kaffein said...

"One thing for sure, his congregation was poor and mostly poor people."

Sorry it wasn't. The congregation consists of both rich and poor. The man Joseph who took Jesus down from the cross and placed him in his own tomb was a very wealthy follower. One needed to be rich to have an own tomb. So was Zaccheaus. Simon Peter was a rich fisherman. He owned a fleet of fishing boats. Matthew the tax collector was a rich man as all tax collectors were. Lydia the disciple in Act and a purple cloth merchant was a very rich person too. So was Cornelius because if he wasn't rich, he wasn't able to give to the poor.

Though Jesus was born into a poor family (Mary and Joseph), He brought them riches. Contrary to beliefs, the wise man did not visit Jesus when He was a babe.

Matt 2: 1-2, 7-11
1 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”

7 Then Herod, when he had secretly called the wise men, determined from them what time the star appeared. 8 And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the young Child, and when you have found Him, bring back word to me, that I may come and worship Him also.”
9 When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great joy. 11 And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him. And when they had opened their treasures, they presented gifts to Him: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

Truths to share:
1. Jesus was a young child below 2 years old. Else King Herod would have specific all babies to die, not young children <2 yrs old.

2. When we read on, Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt. They must have had a lot of money to flee to Egypt to live there for two years.

3. They were presented gold by the wise men. Did we ever think they would travel all the way to bring just a small amount? They were going to meet the King of Kings.

4. Frankincense during that time is about 4 times the cost of gold.

So again, I do not know where people have this concept that Jesus' congregation was poor if Jesus Himself brought riches to His earthly parents.

Alright enough of biblical discourse for now.

Shalom,
Kaffein

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Cornelius only became a follower after Jesus death. Other than the eye of the needle episode, the sermons at the mountain, thousands were fed by a few loaves of bread and a few fishes. Many of the followers were living like vagabonds.

The rich then were the Romans and the Pharisees and the merchants. The one noted as rich was Joseph who owned a tomb.