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2/09/2010

The revelation of Pastor Rony Tan

I was told to watch the Youtube video. I did not want to bother. Then it came over the news that Pastor Rony Tan of Lighthouse Evangelism was called up by the ISD and made a public apology. Now it sounded serious enough for me to want to know what actually happened in the video. There were 3 videos actually, two on a Joseph Wee and a third on a woman named Rita. One was a former monk and the other a nun, and both were interviewed by Rony Tan on stage in front of his congregation. Immediately it was very obvious that the two interviewees were ignoramus as far as Buddhism is concerned, though they claimed to be monk and nun. Or at least they portrayed themselves as two simpletons who, after spending so many years in the religion and claiming to be quite devout, could not make any sense of the teaching. Or maybe they were simply a bit dull. In fact the interviews came across as a stage managed process all out to ridicule Buddhism. And Rony Tan was given the opportunity to make comments like being under the influence of demons, blind leading the blind, and false religion. He came across as the wise man and the other two like fools. But then he commented that Joseph was good enough to become a pastor and doing very good work in converting children to his religion. Everyone had a good laugh at the two silly interviewees and Buddhism. The message that Rony Tan was making was that his was the only true religion and others were false religions. And he knew where he was going while the rest were led by the blind. I am very sure that he knew where and what heaven is all about while the Buddhists did not know what is nirvana. He implied that since the Buddhists did not know nirvana and had not been there, there were talking about things that they did not know. This also implied that Rony Tan must have been to heaven or his believers must have been there and they knew what heaven is all about. As far as I know, the Bible said there is no Christians in heaven! Then how could Rony Tan be so sure about what heaven is all about? And he must have been conducting funeral rites for his followers that they were called home to be with the Lord. The other revelation is that he believed other religions were false or the blind leading the blind. I wonder what he would say when in the company of other religious leaders? Would he say, 'I respect what you all are believing in and your religions.' Then when he returned to his church, he could continue to preach his sermons about other religions according to his belief. Or maybe he will tell them the truth as he is not supposed to lie. Now he has been called up by the ISD and has apologised. Is he sincere in his apology and would not do it again? Would his apology be in conflict with his belief, after all he believes that he is on the right path and is telling the truth. Some comments in cyberspace said it was alright for religious leaders to preach about other religions to their followers within the confines of their religious abodes. Is it really alright? Or have religious leaders been doing such things all the while in their own sermons to their believers, running down on other religions? Now we can understand why some religions are so divisive and so hypocritical. Preaching one thing behind closed doors and putting on a smiling face and embracing the devils and demons in public.

210 comments:

1 – 200 of 210   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Should I say more... no,just this, this type of trashing of other religions is mostly done by Evangelistic Christians( I am going to hell oohh).

Anonymous said...

I have had colleagues who made anti christian remarks before in the office n numerous other places. My question is, do I call up the ISD each time some incident like this happens? I guess as a Christian I will be very busy if I do so. Perhaps the ISD should drop in on mosques n Buddhist/Taoist temples and listen in, if they understand the chanting.

Jaunty Jabber said...

A colleague who's a christian came to ask me one morning......
Colleague: "JJ, Do you want to go to the Heaven? Over there, everyone is so beautiful, there is no aging, everyone is happy, do you want to be beautiful and happy forever? quickly take action to qualify yourself to go to Heaven!!"

Me, munching my morning bread replied: "are you asking me to die? need to die before going to Heaven, right?"

Colleague: ".........."

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The chantings of Buddhists and Taoists are based on ancient mantras and scripts that have nothing to do with other religions or which religion is good or bad. The chants are for the well being of the chanters or the human race or mother earth, with no religious colourings.

I am not too sure about sermons for many values and beliefs are added into them, including modern living issues and politics. Sermons are humans trying to make sense of religion and life. And the intelligence of sermons is as good as the intelligence of the preacher/priests/monks or whoever is standing there.

I recalled Rony Tan quoting Shirley MacLain about her understanding of reincarnation and the purpose of life. And that was Shirley's version according to her intellect. Maybe Rony Tan has a higher intellect and understands life better than her.

Could Rony explain the purpose of creating planets that go round and round the sun for ages, non stop? It is just as meaningless as life of man and animals, eat, reproduce, sleep and die. What is the purpose of these repetitive activities and life cycles?

Each man will have his own clever interpretation. Who is right or who is cleverer?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Jaunty, should ask her if she has been to heaven. She seems to know a lot about heaven when no one has been there to tell and live to tell the truth.

Oh, I may be wrong here. One has been there.

Kaffein said...

Put it bluntly, if I were to tell you I have been to heaven and back. Will you believe?

Probably you will be asking me to prove myself, eg like taking something from heaven and back to show you.

Then I produce a kind of stone which I claim to 'prove' that it came from heaven.

You will then ask to give that 'stone' to the scientists for study.

And even when the scientists claim that they haven't seen such a stone in their lives or in any recorded papers, will you still believe?

Because you will find other reasons not to believe. So we are back to the beginning.

Because faith takes greater leaps than just sight and touch. If you can see and touch heaven, then you don't really need to believe at all. It's so simple, eh?

Hence it was said "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe (in Him)."

:P

Kaffein

Anonymous said...

isd and isa(watever they call themselves, fbi, mi5,snitches) are always present at mosques,even religious police exits in Saudi Arabia and Iran.
I have NEVER heard trashing of any other religions in khuba(friday sermons) around the world, usually teaching of Islam to us ignornant muslims,except media and their distortions and great satan for their foreign policies and double standard.

In halaqa I may say there might be light hearted trashing and humiliation of other religions in context of debate.

Anonymous said...

I think we should criticise the person and not the religion. Remember that all religion preach for peace and harmony.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

when discussing religion, the people in the discussion must be up to it intellectually. no point having a few dull people trying to talk about a subject that even the wisest man would have problem understanding.

and when discussing or debating, the basis must be reasonableness and logic.

if one chooses to believe, then it is not about discussing but about believing. discussion/debate is in a different world from believing.

Wally Buffet said...

Watching the videos, you immediately form an impression about this man. Yes, I said "man" not a pastor. Trying to win a following by denigrating other beliefs is really the basest form of preaching.

I truly believe he just got only a slap on the wrist by being invited to coffee.

He should be charged under the maintenance of religious harmony act.

I disagree that he is smarter than the ex monk and the ex nun he interviewed. In my books, he is downright thoughtless and stupid.

With evangelist the likes of him, the next time anyone of his ilk talks to me about converting to christianity, I would just ask him to shut the F@#k up.

Salary said...

Kaffein,

Does the following applies to other religions as well:

Hence it was said "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe (in Him)."

"Because faith takes greater leaps than just sight and touch. If you can see and touch heaven, then you don't really need to believe at all. It's so simple, eh?"

That is what you should tell Pastor Rony Tan regarding his comment on other faiths.

Anonymous said...

You guys must be kidding. Other religions don't bash Christianity?

Truth is, what the pastor did is milder than some of the venom spitted out against Christianity if you care to venture more into some of the blogs and comments. Even popular blogs.

Truth is, this episode is just a whole lot of pots calling kettles black.

Wally Buffet said...

huh?

If I recall, none of them got invited to coffee.

Anonymous said...

I think the videos make both the Pastor and Joseph look absolutely stupid. The Pastor for thinking that Joseph is telling the truth (or feigning ignorance, in which case he should find out the correct interpretation) about Buddhism, and Joseph for making a complete fool of himself, really.

Buddhism is not about becoming more powerful than God. In fact there is no God in Buddhism. Buddhist acknowledge Buddha as their great teacher, the enlightened one, whose teachings can help them get out of the cycle of rebirth. I say help, because how far he can achieve his/her goal depends on the person's ability to practice his faith.

The other point that Pastor Tan should have made an effort to confirm was the claim that a Sri Lankan Buddhist Temple was willing to make Joseph the head, which is absolutely nonsense and a big fat lie which anyone could see. One day Joseph is going to claim that the Vatican is looking for him to take over the position of the Pope!

India, Sri Lanks, Burma and Tibet have more qualified Buddhist masters and they do not need to appoint, abeit an ignorant fool like Joseph, who knows practically nothing about Buddhism, to head their temple. Many Singaporean Monks and Nuns have gone to these countries for further studies in Buddhism.

I could not help laughing at the two of them. Yeah, it was the blind leading the blind alright.

On a serious note, if such method of preaching is prevalent in Churches here, it does not augurs well for the country. The image of Christianity has been tranished. No doubt about that if you read what they said in the blogs.

Anonymous said...

Rony Tan has insulted the intellects of the believers, non believers and free thinkers.
Post ISD kopi session, he turn around and tell his followers to respect the "fakes"...So much for his resolve in what he preaches. Why did he not choose to die to ISD security and then go heaven?
Go figure!

Anonymous said...

I have not personally seen a video or blog by HIGH RANKING monks, Nun, Islamic teachers or whoever calling another religion demonic. Please note the word HIGH RANKING.

Show us the video, blog if you have seen 1. Thanx.

I believe a senior pastor should be high ranking in Christian community. Please pardon my ignorance if that is not true. I am sure you will as I believe there is god too. And I believe he teaches people to love.

I believe if someone can teach religion, he should be high ranking and know the religion in depth. I will also support them to spread their religion. But will despise them if they defame other religions too.

I believe this will not be a big issue if the person making such impression of other religion is not a SENIOR PASTOR.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Salary, welcome to the blog.

I doubt the claims made by Joseph as he revealed that he is totally ignorant of the teachings of Buddhism. Buddhism is not about gods. It is about buddha nature in each and everyone of us. What Joseph uttered about being more powerful than gods was total rubbish. Buddhism is not about power or which is the real religion. It just say go and practise and discover your own buddha nature. And if one seeks and attain the state of nirvana and buddhahood, good for him.

And Buddha is not there to cure his bleeding arse. He should have the common sense to see a doctor or seek medical help.

Anonymous said...

I think I will just go to Sorry Rony's church this weekend to see him in person as he is now quite a celebrity.

Wow! what a way to get free publicity. Who knows, I may even believe his hogwash and become one of his flock!

Anonymous said...

'He should have the commson sense to see a doctor or seek medical help'

Err Redbean, perhaps he wants to follow the footsteps of Anwars' aides, that is have more 'soto mee' to cure his bleeding arse.

Anonymous said...

Why have Christianity come to this?

Years ago, when my children were in lower Secondary, they had people waiting outside the school gates trying to get them to attend church gatherings. In other words they even tried to catch them early to convert them. How could they do such a thing, when the child is still so young and gullible.

Anonymous said...

Pastor Rony is a good Pastor. Although I am not a member of his church (really, I am not). But I have attended his church service. I even brought my mum to the church.

I have gained lots of wisdom and knowledge through his sharing. He gave many helpful advices to his members on how to deal with life problems.

As for my Mum, she has stop practicing what she used to do.

Anonymous said...

GOVT. PLEASE INVESTIGATE ALL THESE INDEPENDENT CHURCHES FINANCE!! May have more NKF and Ren Ci!! They are swindling all the honest churchgoers who are seeking guidiance and answer to life. PLEASE ARREST RONY!!

Lastly, pls screen through all MPs, Editors, Govt Agencies Decision Makers, making sure they make good judgement and not influence by their religious affliation. Current Korean PResident is very Christian and he is so bias that Korea map only show churches but no temples. He forgot his family roots!

Anonymous said...

Being a good or mediocre Pastor is beside the point. The thing is he made all attempts to make use of Joseph to misinterpret, insult, belittle and poke fun directed against Buddhism, in front of a congregation.

That is wrong.

Anonymous said...

"If I recall, none of them got invited to coffee."

Because nobody was malicious enough to duplicate/download the content and create a ruckus?

Because that is true tolerance?

Let me tell you guys, there will be Buddhists who will be invited to coffee if someone reported the Buddhists who used to proselytise and give out tracks along the pedestrian path under the MRT track at the traffic junction next to the Tampines MRT.

There will be bloggers charged with sedition if someone reported the seditious remarks in blogs.

Kiddies can go to Tomorrow and adults to 3in1Koptiam and start exploring for yourself.

Now, ask yourself why they aren't invited for coffee with ISD.

Anonymous said...

"Show us the video, blog if you have seen 1. Thanx."

Ask yourself why there is no big hooha created instead.

Ask yourself whether it is that easy to tolerate the noise and din created during funerals, the cancerous smoke from incense and burning hell notes, the altars placed along walkways in public areas.

Ask yourself what would have happened if someone complained.

Chances are, he would be condemned for being intolerant, just like the man who reported a seditious blogger a few years ago.

Maybe you have forgotten, but netizens were also all up in arms, in favor of the seditious young blogger.

That is the reason I speak here. It's all hypocrisy - the guilty condemning the guilty.

Anonymous said...

"Because nobody was malicious enough to duplicate/download the content and create a ruckus?"

Because others do it surreptitously and quietly without fanfare and our Great Deliverer Sorry Rony did it the American way with expensive state of the art video recorders, sound systems, stuff that only his rich congregation can afford to buy?

Anonymous said...

"Because others do it surreptitously and quietly without fanfare and our Great Deliverer Sorry Rony did it the American way with expensive state of the art video recorders, sound systems, stuff that only his rich congregation can afford to buy?"

Will it be 'mild curry'-turned audacious-sedition if videos of those Buddhists proselytising were loaded on the Net? Sedition is sedition, whether you do it quietly or not.

Or is the problem not sedition, but the wealth of those Christians that bothers you?

Do I smell a green-eyed monster? No wonder some chaps were dead set on writing and maintaining colorful wikipedia entries of rich mega churches. While you are at it, do compare those entries of JP and KH with that for the Buddhist monk.

I thought the understanding is that each should mind his own business in his own backyard?

Anonymous said...

And where are those human rights activists? Aren't they supposed to champion free speech?

Not that I agree with free speech without responsibility.

But see what I mean? The double standards and hypocrisy is appalling.

Anonymous said...

You are actually barking up the wrong tree. Stirring up religious hatred is in the category of free speech? I suggest you view the videos once again and judge for yourself whether this man is entitled to his "free speech" by the way he belittles and denigrates another religion when preaching his own. Clearly, he has overstepped the bounds of good decorum and etiquette. If you are selling food, you don't have to say your competitor's food is rotten, you just have to promote yours and say it's better.

Anonymous said...

I think the ISD acted fairly in this incident.

We live in a multi religion society and should respect each other.

If Rony Tan intend his teachings for the ears of his followers alone, why upload it to his website for everyone's viewing?

There is no need to blame others for duplicating his videos and reporting it to ISD.

Or feel slighted and now go on a witch hunt and find fault with other religions.

The Ren Ci incident is unfortunate but Buddhists took it in their stride when the facts are presented clearly.

With the apology by Rony Tan, this issue should be closed. Netizens are not naive and can see for themselves what is right or wrong.

Let's be clear, the fury of netizens is against Rony Tan alone.

I don't think any Buddhists is going to lose their respect or not cherish their Christian friends just because of this.

Alan Wong said...

I once remembered that I was told by some evangelists that it was plain stupid for anyone to pray to wooden and stone tablets.

But for themselves to pray to their own God which is cast in a stone statue, it is not stupid meh ?

Anonymous said...

"Call for restraint"

"Singapore Buddhist Lodge chairman Lee Bock Guan urged restraint on the part of Buddhists so that tension does not escalate. He said: 'Buddhism teaches us to forgive; everybody makes mistakes.'"

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_488301.html

So now friends, will you heed this advice from the religious leader or will you continue to fan the flames?
----------------------------
"Stirring up religious hatred is in the category of free speech?"

Then what is free speech that human rights activists are harping about?

---------------------------------
"If Rony Tan intend his teachings for the ears of his followers alone, why upload it to his website for everyone's viewing?"

Because there might be members who have missed the session?

In fact, you know what will help keep the harmony? ISD are you here? You should warn those who maliciously go to other people's backyard to copy and distribute materials which they already deem seditious and purposely fan more ill-feelings and disharmony.
-------------------------------
"If you are selling food, you don't have to say your competitor's food is rotten, you just have to promote yours and say it's better."

This I agree. I am not defending his action but highlighting the hypocrisy and double-standards that exist on the Net.

Do we really want harmony or are just here pick fights?

The pastor has already apologised and they have taken down the videos even before it became viral. What else do you want? Blood? Is that what Buddhism is about? I don't think so.

-----------------------------
"But for themselves to pray to their own God which is cast in a stone statue, it is not stupid meh ?"

Ignorance goes both ways here. Christians do not pray to stone statues.

Anonymous said...

everyone should have a cigarette and relax. one stupid pastor doesnt mean the whole religion is at fault. just like one stupid ex-monk or ex-nun doesn't mean buddhism and taoism is nonsense.

every major religion has its fair share of fundies and zealots.

Anonymous said...

Here you go:

Offences.
4. —(1) Any person who —

(a) does or attempts to do, or makes any preparation to do, or conspires with any person to do, any act which has or which would, if done, have a seditious tendency;

(b) utters any seditious words;

(c) prints, publishes, sells, offers for sale, distributes or reproduces any seditious publication; or

(d) imports any seditious publication,

Multiple choice question:

Which offence is a person who reproduces and distributes seditious materials committing?
(a), (b), (c), (d) or all of the above?

Anonymous said...

Anon February 09, 2010 10:37 PM,

I don't smoke, can I have kopi-O?

:D

Anonymous said...

"There were no immediate comments from Archbishop John Chew, the President of the National Council of Churches of Singapore (NCCS), a body bringing together the major Christian denominations and churches in Singapore."

[http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/02/09/angry-netizens-protest-against-lighthouse-evangelism-senior-pastor-rony-tan-on-his-facebook/]

Those anti-religion zealots at Temasek Review should get their facts right. The church concerned is not a member of NCCS.

Maybe they are too eager to fan the flames of inter-religious hatred and disharmony, they forgot to check their facts.

These are the real trouble-makers. ISD need to extend their radar and tell them to mind their own business.

Anonymous said...

本是同根生,相煎何太急!

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

ISD has done its job to nip this issue before it gets too wild. What I am afraid is that the light slap on the wrist could become a precedent and some jokers may do a repeat and then think that doing a public apology will be enough to get a way with it.

The message must be very clear. Do not ridicule or denounce other people's faith. No faith is superior to another. Oops, that's my belief. But for those who believe that theirs is the only true faith and others are false, it is going to be very difficult to put on an act and tell the believers of other faiths otherwise.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

And welcome to the blog, salary and Alan Wong.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The reason for Rony Tan to say that the blind was leading the blind is that the Buddhist monk has not reached the state of nirvana and could not tell Joseph what nirvana is or how to get there.

Using the same logic, if Rony has not been to heaven, and if he is to teach his believers about heaven and how to get there, would he too be the blind leading the blind?

Anonymous said...

To e anonymous church basher on 9 feb 4:47pm...u wanna a full investigation of the finances of independent churches. Come! bring it on... BTW u seems jealous over the wealth of Christians,are u? Let me tell U! we members give to the church with a cheerful heart and we don't need to solicitate funds from the public to build our church building and in record time also:)

Anonymous said...

That's where you Christians are wrong again. Buddhist don't solicit funds from the public to build temples. They do it to help the sick, homeless and the poor. That's the difference.

Giving with a cheerful heart for a selfish act of church building? Does it benefit the sick, homeless or poor? That's nothing to crow about.

Anonymous said...

Rony Tan ( what kind of name is that anyway) didn't teach me much about Buddhism, coz I know Buddhism is a lot more than what he is trying to insinuate. But I learnt a lot more about Christians.

Anonymous said...

You must be a Christian if…

1. You believe that an ancient Book of Myths filled with
contradictions, absurdities, atrocities, myths, fables, and plenty of
nonhistorical "history" is somehow magically the inerrant, infallible
"Word of God".

2. You believe that a Magical Being magically brought the universe
into existence by speaking a powerful magical spell from Nowhere
approximately 6000 years ago.

3. You believe, concerning the origins of mankind, that a Magical
Being magically made us by fashioning a doll from a mound of scooped
up dirt, which he then somehow magically brought to life via His Spook
who is also somehow magically Him.

4. You believe that Three Magical Beings are somehow magically One
Magical Being, and that the Three Magical Beings who are One Magical
Being are somehow magically Each Other.

5. You believe that mankind "fell from grace" and deserves to be BBQed
eternally because two primitive people who lived in an awesome garden
located somewhere in the Middle East listened to a lying talking snake
and ate some forbidden magic fruit from a magic tree.

6. You believe that this Magical Being who magically created the
universe and us is "all-knowing" even though He lost track of Adam in
the awesome garden and that he is "all-powerful" even though He has
trouble with iron chariots.

7. You believe that you possess some sort of magical inner spook that
is the real you. You believe that this inner spook can be magically
transformed by a Sky Spook and even lived in by an Invisible Sky Man
via that same Sky Spook.

8. You believe that because the first two magically created people
disobeyed the Magical Being due to the influence of a lying talking
snake and some magic inner spook-killing fruit, that all men are born
with their inner spooks killed and in need of a magical transformation
courtesy of a Sky Spook.

9. You believe that an Invisible Man who lives in the Sky is going to
kick a talking snake's ass by sacrificing Himself to Himself and then
Magically Undeadening Himself. You believe that if we believe that the
Invisible Man is Magically Undead, that a Sky Spook who is also
somehow magically the Invisible Man will Magically Undeaden our inner
spooks and magically live inside of us and at the same time will
"seal" our inner spooks as His so that it is kept safe from the
diabolical attacks of the Talking Snake and his evil spooks.

10. You believe that this enormous universe which consists of
approximately 125 billion galaxies was created specifically for
mankind, and that human history reflects a cosmic battle between an
Invisible Man who lives in the Sky and an evil spook who enjoys
manifesting as a talking snake. You believe that humans are divided
into two groups - those who serve the Invisible Sky Man and those who
serve the Talking Snake.

11. You believe that since we "fell from grace" because of some magic
fruit and a lying talking snake that we need redemption, and that to
accomplish this the Magical Being sacrified Himself to Himself to save
us from Himself. But, you also believe that the Magical Being's
sacrifice somehow magically doesn't count unless we believe it and
accept it.

12. You believe that a Magical Being somehow magically became a man,
and that this Manly Magical Being murdered Himself and then Magically
Undeadened Himself three days later via the Sky Spook version of
Himself so He wouldn't have to toss us into an eternal flaming torture chamber because of the unfortunate incident involving the lying talking snake and the magic fruit.

13. You believe that a Sky Spook who is somehow magically the Magical
Being raped a woman named Mary who somehow magically remained a virgin
after being raped, and that this glorious union produced a child who
was somehow magically the Magical Being embodied.

Anonymous said...

anonymous 4:03pm.. what makes u think christians don't help the poor? we don't need to blow the trumpet to tell the world that we have done good deeds unlike some of u just want pple to know the amount that u donated to some so called charity show :( There is no need for us to perform stunts(jumpin from one buildin to another :O) just to cook up sympathy to raise funds lah...

Anonymous said...

Anon 4.59

Ok, I believe everything you said.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi everyone,

While we are discussing about Rony Tan and his video interviews with Joseph and Rita, I know that many of you would be dragged into a bigger discussion on Christianity and religion.

Are we up to it to discuss them, the doctrines and beliefs, without being personal and attacking one another? I think we would have move up a level if we can rationally talk about them factually and logically, without the emotions. If we are unable to do so, then we are not doing justice to everyone reading the blog, believers and non believers.

As a belief, we should just leave it to everyone to believe, and if someone says I believe this and that, there is nothing wrong with that.

If we can just stick to facts and logics we could bring forth many enlightening views on the subject and it will benefit the readers. Just stay calm and cool and avoid emotions and name calling.

Cheers.

Anonymous said...

If Jesus still alive, he will be condemning this pastor. Because Jesus loves peace and not spreading offensive remarks. So what was heaven he talk about?

Anonymous said...

Christ condemns not.

Neither does the reasonable man.

C'mon. He was behaving like a clown, along with the other 2, is all.

Anonymous said...

Well if Rony the clown wants to discuss Buddhism, why didn't he invite the scientists, neurologists, psychologists, world leaders, successful businessmen -- truly intelligent people who are experts in their own fields to comment on it as what Dalai Lama does regularly in world conference, instead of using 2 dimwits who pretended to know Buddhism very well. Can't he afford better actors?

This is just a showmanship by a pastor who's gone way out of line. Yes quite entertaining, nothing more than a C grade performance - a real cheap shot to make a false superiority of Christian over Buddhism.

By the way, look at the crowd he draws, this is another discomforting fact, how many will walk thinking that Buddhism is a disguised form of Satanism? Dangerous....

Julia said...

I used to be a devout Christian but switched to Buddhism many years back.
I remembered I used to look at Goddess of Mercy / Buddha's statue and thinking that I was looking at devils and the worshippers are poor misled souls and would ask Lord to forgive them and would pray for their salvation.

I will not go into why I forsake Christianity because it will mean that I have to say the cons, anyway whatever religion you are in, don't try to create US vs THEM, don't condemn others to make yourself look good, don't be disrespectful by talking bad without understanding the fact and don't be proud thinking you are always better. THink you can do that, Rony?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Thanks for the comment Julia. And welcome to the blog.

We should let everyone to choose their own religious path and answer their own callings. Just be happy with what you have chosen and no need to claim that yours is more superior than another person or yours is the truth and the rest are false.

And don't condemn others as devil worshippers or demonic. No one is wiser.

Anonymous said...

To pple of other religion just in case u don't know.. Christianity is not a religion but a relationship with God our Heavenly Father through Jesus Christ the Son of God,OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR.

We believers are SAVED not by good works(which we will never be able to achieve) but through the loving GRACE of our Lord Jesus Christ who shed His Blood on the cross for our sins and simply accepting Him as our personal Lord and Saviour.

GRACE is a gift..its unearned,undeserving and unmerited.

To Julia,its sad that u chose the current path...maybe due to the letdown by some so called "Christians" in life.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

After what Rony has done to the Buddhist and Taoist faiths by painting a very ridiculous nature of their doctrines and beliefs, an apology is not enough.

He should honourably conduct an interview with some knowledgeable Buddhists and Taoists practitioners in front of the same congregation to dispel the misleading statements and comments made. And he should post it in his website to clarify the falsehood that were expressed.

This is only fair and the right thing to do if he is sincere and repetance for his misdeeds.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Anonymous 9:42,

There is no need to feel sad for Julia. The feeling can be vice versa.

Whether Christianity is a religion, a belief, a relationship with God or whatever, no one is going to disagree with you as long as you don't go and tell pp that they are believing in the devil and yours is the only right path to God. Pp will respect you and your belief as long as you respect other people's beliefs.

You are entitled to believe in all beliefs and relationship with God. You sincerely believe you are right. Other believers too believe that they are right.

I don't believe in the God of Israel.

Nick said...

If that is cast in stone, wood, clay and metal is not holy, then I don't think that any religious building fashioned out of the same materials can be considered holy places.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Nick, Welcome to the blog.

The temple of god is inside you. Who resides in the temple of god?

Nick said...

I was about to say that. Our heart is where the temple is. Lets not leave the heart behind when we leave the temple. i think you get the drift. That's the irony. Some people condemn clay and whatever shit and they still regard their building fashioned out of the same materials to be holy. This is not idol worship or what.

Nick said...

If theist dun evangelise, we will all go to heaven. I like it this way. Ignorance is BLISS

“Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" Priest: "No, not if you did not know." Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"”

Nick said...

Why do SWINE exists?
Ans: Becos BIGOTS exist.

Anonymous said...

Watch This

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xajCUE6oHkI

Kaffein said...

@Redbean:" The temple of god is inside you. Who resides in the temple of god?"

Thought you had just answered your own question. Temple of >>GOD<<

:P

Kaffein

Anonymous said...

Dear mr Chua

Have u ever ask yourself why Christianity is constantly being attack and the most hated religion in the eyes of other religion and free thinkers?U will never fail to hear pple talkin bad about us but not other religion. Why is it then? There must be something special in us who knows the TRUTH that u pple can't stand :)

I thought u Buddists are peace loving and tolerant? Please check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PykosGP3VuU

Anonymous said...

@ anonymous, 1.01pm:

Are you sure you wanna talk about this?

How about South Korean Christians burning down temples and mosques?

How about the tens of thousand of people died under the hands of cult? Their root is basely on Christianity.

How about hardcore believers destroying their families like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOpva_iit-8

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Thank you Kaffein,

Hi Anonymous 1:01,

There are religions, doctrines and believers and deviants. Compare the doctrines of the religions. In Buddhism, it is all about compassion and not killing or taking lives. Then you may want to ask why got fighting monks. The monks could choose to sit down and let the other party kill them just like turning the other cheek. But no average buddhist will invoke the name of buddha to kill.

In Christianity, God is there to help his believers to kill. And a believer can invoke the name of God to kill. Just ask George Bush if you have any doubts.

As for believers they are just ordinary men and women. Some smarter, some as dull as Joseph and Rony. If Rony is smart enough, he will not have to apologise to the devil worshippers. Are the devil worshippers now more superior to him?

Then there are deviants in all religions who will kill in the name of their gods, and in glory, go to heaven some more.

The deviant buddhists will know that killing will have its own karma and they cannot escape from their acts.

Why is Christianity always come under attack? How do you expect people to react when you approach them and tell them that they are devil worshippers and believe in false religions? And you are there to save them? By the way, do you know how to go to heaven?

Or how would you react or feel if I were to knock on your door and tell you that your God is demon and your religion is false? I will not do this to anyone unless invited into a discussion.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Nick,

The Eskimo will not go to hell, but he will know go to heaven either.

No one can go to the father except through me. I am the way. Amen.

john.kohlm said...

Problem is not the pastor apology , it is the audience that he had influences , this is the issue. Young people are there too , this is worrying

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi John.Kohlm, welcome to the blog.

This is exactly what I had in mind. He has done a lot of damage and planted misleading ideas about Buddhism and Taoism in some impressionable minds. The least he should do is to repair the damange and harm he has done.

An apology is not enough. ISD and the monks/priests should insist that he does some damage control and corrective actions if he is sincere.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:01

Anyone can call themselves Christians but who are the real believers but through the fruit they bear:) Your youtube link is no surprise to me really:) You call that woman a Christian just because she say she is..?? You ask me i say she needs deliverance..haha

Anonymous said...

I agree with John.kohim.

This brings me to the point about OB markers. Is this case the result of not having much discussion about religion for fear of overstepping these markers, such that each religion has now reached the stage that even a senior leader of one religion has little understanding about other religion? And the worst part is that having little understanding, they still want to talk and discuss other religion. Sounds absurd and very worrying.

Don't kids study history nowadays? Oh, sorry, not all do.

Anonymous said...

Yo, Redbean

From my experience, I do not expect Reverend Kwang Sheng to do more than accept the apology. Such is the nature of someone steep in the teachings of Buddhism. To do otherwise would go against their belief.

In any case I think the more devout Buddhist followers will now let the matter rest.

Anonymous said...

"In Christianity, God is there to help his believers to kill. And a believer can invoke the name of God to kill. Just ask George Bush if you have any doubts."

Dear Mr Chua,u believe in what this man said just because he is the President? Have u heard this being preached in the churches before?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

That I have to agree with you. The Reverend would not ask for a pound of flesh nor any punishment. I think it would be perfectly fair for him to be invited to talk to Rony's congregation and clear up the misconception and untruths that had been spread.

And Rony may want to correct himself by confirming his thinking that the Buddhists were like the blind leading the blind, and it is a false religion. He may get some enlightenment on the meaning of rebirth, reincarnation and karma.

His flock of sheep too will benefit from a knowledgeable discussion instead of listening to simpletons like Joseph and Rita.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Bush is a modern day believer. If you have the time, go and read the Old Testament.

Anonymous said...

I thought George Bush talks to God directly.

Anonymous said...

Yo, Redbean

Inviting the Reverend to talk to Rony's congregation is another Taboo. Unlikely to happen.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mr Chua,

Since u ask me to read the old testament, can u kindly tell me which book of the old testament,chapter and verse u are refering? And in what way it is related to George Bush and the modern day believer?

U also have not answer my question i did ask u from the last statement of ur quote of George Bush whether its being preached in churches.If not,please don't lump it with the church as a whole. U are talking dangerously down here my friend.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Anonymous, in the first place I never say it was preached in the church. I said George Bush asked for the blessing of God to go to war in Iraq.

I know you are not familiar with your bible. Go and read Deuteronomy 20:10-17 and Numbers 25:1-6. These are only a few verses of how God would kill for his people in the Old Testament. There are many more which I thought you would be able to enlighten the non believers.

Anonymous said...

Dear mr Chua

askin u to quote the verses to support ur argument does not mean i'm unfamiliar with the bible.

BTW,ur understanding of Numbers 25:1-6 is totally wrong:)God in these verses kill His own pple for worshipping a foreign god(Baal) and not as what u interpret helping His pple to kill their enemies when they go to war which is only true for Deut.20:10-17.

Anywy what's wrong with the President asking God's blessings on his troops to go to war? Don't tell me u never serve NS and carry weapon and when our country is invaded will u fight in a war?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

So anonymous, am I talking dangerously or am I telling the truth? My comment started on the premise that Buddhism is a religion that does not advocate killing against a God that kills, own people or enemies, it killed. You want to post here what were written in the Bible that I quoted.

The God is not the all loving, all kindness and all forgiving God that we were told to believe. Did I say something that is dangerous and untruth? The only untruth here is that someone is telling half truth or a lie.

Going to war as a solider to defend one's country is an entirely different issue than a believer going to war and calling to God, 'so help me God!' George Bush declared war on Iraq, sent his soldiers to kill and asked god to help him in his killing. He believed his God would help him to kill.

You would never hear a Buddhist saying, 'Help me Buddha!' when he is going to war or to kill.

This Buddha 'demon/devil' does not kill. The God you believe in killed. So which is more demonic or devillish? The one who killed or the one who was against killing?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

What's wrong with Bush calling God for help in going to war? You don't see anything wrong in that?

It is blasphemy to give the impression that God will help him to kill innocent people. But then if you believe that it is alright to kill innocent people and God will help Bush to do it, then I agree with you, nothing wrong.

It only confirms that God kills. Not all loving and kindness. You want to tell the non believers that this is your God?

And while we are discussing something serious, please use a nick instead of anonymous. At least I know which anonymous I am talking to.

Jaunty Jabber said...

Dear Redbean,

Wow, a long chain of comments.
Where is Matilah ah? Did not see his comment on your blog for a long time.

Anonymous said...

Dear mr chua,

U r reading the bible in bit and pieces and even out of contexts and wanna make good in ur understanding of it:0

The difference between a unbeliever and a believer is an unbeliever read it like reading a story book of tales but a believer reading it with revelation from our Almighty God.

It quite alarming in ur understanding of the word Blessings. U seems to believe that its all about to kill and kill :0 when u quote what Bush said to the troops.My interpretation tells me its about safety,well being,protection and favour. BTW,im not a fan of Bush and his foreign policies and please don't lump it as all Christians are like that;)

You also seems hellbound in wanting the authorities to take harder action on Pastor Ron. That doesn't really speak of the forgiving nature of your believe;)when the Head of ur Clan wants the matter to rest.

i love redbean said...

Hi Mr Chua,

i'm the anonymous 7:12pm sign in at ur request :)
let me go for dinner first and get back to u in an hour :)

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Iloveredbean, thanks and welcome.
But don't keep putting words into my mouth can?

I have never ask for tougher action against Rony. I just say that it is only fair that Rony invite some more authoritative Buddhists to dispel the controversies and misleading remarks made by him, Joseph and Rita to give a more correct picture of what Buddhism is about. They have done great discredit to Buddhism and the buddhists in an audience and in the internet.

I am sure if you or your religion is affected in the same way, you would want a chance to clarify the matter instead of letting the grey cloud hanging over your head.

This is something like the right to reply.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Jaunty, ya, I miss that bugger. He must have lost his way.

Matilah, mana lah pergi?

i love redbean said...

Dear mr chua,

U lack faith in ur brethren that they will be swayed by the pastor's teachings.If ur friends are strong in their Buddhist faith why must they be bothered by this man? He is only addressing his congregation members only really no need for u guys to be fumming mad and get so workup unless there are really some Buddhist in the congregation waiting to cross over when they found the Truth

John 8:32 (New International Version)
32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free

If that's the case ...Praise the Lord Jesus...Alleuia..Thank you Jesus. Amen..Amen..

Anonymous said...

1)Rony Tan asked what determine a person sex during his/her first life.

Ans: Regarding karma and rebirth, to be born male or female depends on the individual's powerful karma, whether good or bad. If one has no such powerful karma, sex will depend on the cultivated and accumulated sexual characteristics of the individual.

http://www.fsscconference.org.uk/journal/1-1/pipat.pdf

2)Rony Tan said Buddhism scale of thing is a man is higher than a women.

Ans: In Buddhist text, physiological sex is no obstacle to achieving enlightenment because in meditative practice, one's body is only a "form".
The concept of gender equality in Buddhism is first mentioned in the Tripitaka Vinaya, where the Buddha, when pressed for an answer from Ananda, proclaimed that it is possible for women to leave their household life by becoming bhikkhuni (female monk). He also stated that it is possible for women to achieve different levels of enlightenment. Therefore, he allowed women to be ordained. Many of women in the Buddha’s time attained enlightenment at different levels,according to the Theri Gatha Sutra in Tripitaka.

3)Rony Tan claimed that Buddhism is demonic. Rony Tan said when talk about false religion it about satan and demons coming to people mind. Rony said when Rita is into Buddhism, demonic power will put idea into the monk and her mind.

Ans: Meditation is a form of mental development toward perfection of mind resulting in Five Supernatural powers. These include mind reading, the ability to talk to the dead, see past lives, walk through solid objects such as walls, walk upon water, teletransportation, traveling to various realms of existence and others. Today, even early child development on right brain development emphasis on sharping the 5 senses to achieve Telepathy or Clairvoyance.

4)Rony Tan said there no truth in reincarnation. He claimed that Buddhism engaged in David Copperfield trickery.

Ans: The difference between the reincarnation of Hinduism and rebirth in Buddhism is that the former involves a soul transmigrating from one life to another; the latter does not. Buddhism teaches that there is no soul to be reborn. The question on rebirth can be answer in The Questions of King Milinda
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/sbe35/sbe3505.htm

5)Rany Tan claimed that the dying Buddha's last words was "I am still searching for the way."

Ans: The last words of Buddha can be found in Mahāparinibbāna Sutta. The followings are some translation of the phrase, the Buddha's last words

"Behold, O monks, this is my last advice to you. All component things in the world are changeable. They are not lasting. Work hard to gain your own salvation."

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/lifebuddha/2_31lbud.htm

All compounded things, all experiences (mental and physical), all phenomena by their very nature decay and die, and are disappointing: it is through being not-blind-drunk on, obsessed by, or infatuated with, the objects of the senses that you succeed in awakening, or obtain liberation.
http://www.jayarava.org/buddhas-last-words.html

6)Rony Tan then claimed that Jesus appeared and told Buddha that
"I am the way."

Ans:Buddha predates Jesus by 500 years. Therefore, more likely that Buddha teaching has showed Jesus the way.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi iloveredbean,

It is not my concern whether people of other religions will be converted to Chrisitianity by Rony's misleading and false testimonies.

Here is an issue that people, including christians, were up against. Misrepresentation and ridiculing another religion out of ignorance.

As for your interpretation of the Bible with the help of Almighty, it is as good as hearing the good stuff. Today, many people have enough education and knowledge to read the Bible with a little effort. It all depends on what or how you want to read it. You will see only things that you want to see.

And Anonymous 3:15am, thanks for your comments on some of the concepts of Buddhism. I have read some and the concept of rebirth and reincarnation is not easy to understand. What is being reincarnate, the soul, spirit, consciousness or whatever? And it will be worst for someone who did not bother to find out or understand the subject to make ridiculous remarks about it.

I wonder if Rony did attempt to understand what rebirth and reincarnation were before he laughed at these concepts. It needs exceptional high intellects to be able to explain what they are.

Anonymous said...

As Christians, the best way to evangelise is through our daily conduct. Be kind and patient to our neighbours and even people who hate us. Keep all the amen amen and hallejuia away when witnessing to non christians. Only by good conduct, you attract the non christians to believe that Jesus is special. Condemning the people or the other faiths does not constitute to good conduct. Non believers of Christianity, please do not benchmark Christianity to the misdeeds of Rony Tan for what he did in the videos does not represent true Christianity.

Anonymous said...

"As a belief, we should just leave it to everyone to believe, and if someone says I believe this and that, there is nothing wrong with that."

But why then is everyone up in arms when some Christians say they believe other religions are demonic?

Live and let live lah.

Look at the comments and you will find specimens that are seditious against Christianity.

But has anyone called the ISD yet?

Anonymous said...

"Or how would you react or feel if I were to knock on your door and tell you that your God is demon and your religion is false? I will not do this to anyone unless invited into a discussion."

Of course I will be angered and maybe rebut you but I will not haul you up to have coffee with the ISD.

Anonymous said...

"The God is not the all loving, all kindness and all forgiving God that we were told to believe. Did I say something that is dangerous and untruth? The only untruth here is that someone is telling half truth or a lie."

That is where you are wrong. Loving a people does not mean not allowing them to be punished. And in the context of Christianity, death is better than life on earth because it is a transition to a higher place.

There is much more I can say but that might invite more misconceptions and arguments because of lack of knowledge about what Christianity is about. The comments here have shown that ignorance is not restricted to the now infamous threesome.

Perhaps that is the problem. We tend to judge others' religion or beliefs based on our own set of expectations.

You have shown that you do not fully understand Christianity too. And if you talk about logic, religion is not all logic, including Buddhism. So to me, that is a waste of time.

Anonymous said...

I would Said RELIGION DIVIDES and SPIRITUALITY UNITES !

See how a certain ignorant leader of a certain religious dogma can create disharmony without exercising his limited wisdom or should i said none at all based on his hearsay .

Judging from the way he speaks and his use of tone on speeches to anchour in the mind of sheeples , i can tell he is a hypocritical ignorant FOOL who is not fit to even be a pastor !

He is Creating Disharmony & conflicts in the society by mocking on others beliefs & cultures . From my point of views he should stepped down from being a pastor and stopped preaching since his preaching are all based on fairy tales with no scienctific facts either !

If you point a finger at a person you see 3 fingers pointing back at yourself , so is this not cause and effect in a logical sense ?

Please USE YOUR BRAIN however ignorant you are , LEARN to THINK and Analyse !

Lastly please GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT !

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

When I take out a coin, someone will shout head, but I only see tail. And a third party looking from outside will say it is head and tail of a coin.

But the person who says head could insist that he is right and the other party is wrong. In fact he could be so dogmatic that the other two parties are wrong. Only he knows what is right.

The fact is that a coin has two sides. Do not say someone is wrong because he is not looking from the same side as you. You could be the one that is wrong.

But this is totally different from a stupid fellow who did not know what is on the other side of the coin and mock at the person who said it is an orchid flower. And worst still is for the person looking at the orchid flower and said he did not know what it is and laugh as well.

64 BITS said...

You are right when you use 2 sides of a coin as an analogy , how nice if at least 70% of the world population had the frequency like you , then conflicts will lessen .

Anyway i am the one commenting above your last reply , sorry i forgotten to insert my Nick as 64 Bits , as i am commenting in a hurry last hour ago .

All i know is when i do good or help someone i feel GOOD , when i do bad i feel uneasy , i need no religion to tell me how it all begins i only know that one day all of us who once commented here will ends .

What most important is , how we live our life in a meaningful manner and nothing else really matters ..

64 BiT said...

You see the Problem with Dogma Groups are always at war since ancient times .

Dogma Groups leads to attachments leads to Ego Leads to fear leads to Politics leads to Conflicts Leads to anger leads to War .

Thats is why i always stay clear from any dogma institutions which doesn;t helps me to be a better person in life .

I understand that relgious dogmas are like a double edge sword , it's existence is nevertheless essential in a growing society to cultivate morals when taught at a young age so as to help build a better world to co exists , nevertheless it can also backfire when a hypocritical ignorant self proclaim leader led it's group astray , worst creating DISHARMONY and Conflicts !

So people please anaylse the leaders when you intend to join that particular dogmatic groups , if this leader uses words to create conflicts in this society - LEAVE IMMEDIATELY .

BONJE said...

Mr Chua Chin Leng


From all your comments something tells me you are not so confident of your faith.

Firstly, I thank God and the government of Singapore for allowing all types of religion in Singapore.



These are some of the mistakes you have made about faith and religion.



Mr. Chua On February 10, 2010 6:18 PM you stated.

I think we would have move up a level if we can rationally talk about faith and religion factually and logically,
without the emotions.

You also stated that,,If we can just stick to facts and logics we could bring forth many enlightening views on the subject and it will benefit the readers

THE TRUTHFULL ANSWER IS-

When it comes to religion and faith, none of them as got facts and logic, because none of them can ever be proven beyond reasonable doubt by any human or scientific method
Buddhism believes in rebirth while Christianity believes in the soul judgement after death...can you explain or prove this with facts and logic?





Mr. Chua On February 11, 2010 1:44 PM you stated.

In Buddhism, it is all about compassion and not killing or taking lives. Then you may want to ask why got fighting monks. The monks could choose to sit down and let the other party kill them just like turning the other cheek. But no average Buddhist will invoke the name of Buddha to kill.

In Christianity, God is there to help his believers to kill. And a believer can invoke the name of God to kill.

As for believers they are just ordinary men and women. Some smarter, some as dull as Joseph and Rony. If Rony is smart enough, he will not have to apologise to the devil worshippers. Are the devil worshippers now more superior to him?

THE TRUTHFULL ANSWER IS-

The truthful answer is that it is true that Buddhism preaches about compassion and not killing!!!LET ME SEE... Try telling that to the Singapore or Chinese government, or any government for that matter. Just tell them you are Buddhist and you will not be doing national service or join the police or army since you do not want to learn how to kill people. I promise you your next blog will be from changi prison.
I wonder how many Buddhist are presently in the Singapore and Chinese army. KARMA OR NO KARMA,, you must defend yourself your country and the people you love when the need arises.

And YES!!!! The God of the Christian kills to save lives and help his people,,, Just read that in your bible. NO BIG SECRET TO THAT!

And yes he is not a stupid God he will kill you if he want to and there is nothing anybody can do about it. just read about how he killed the Egyptians in the bible he as killed before and he will even kill again... and yes if Singapore was under attack I will also pray to God to give me and Singapore the strength to kill all our enemies and anyone trying to destroy our nation. WOULDNT YOU KILL AND PRAY TO SAVE SINGPORE FROM THE EVIL ONES.


I know Buddhism don't believe in any God but they believe in living in a peaceful and harmonious way of life which is a good thing, but i must say, such peace may never become a reality when wicked and many bad people such as Saddam Hussien are still roaming around the world. To learn more about Buddhism please copy and paste http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism to learn more about Christianity just get a copy of the bible in any language.

BONJE said...

Mr. Chua On February 11, 2010 2:13 PM you stated.

An apology is not enough. ISD and the monks/priests should insist that he does some damage control and corrective actions if he is sincere.
He has done a lot of damage and planted misleading ideas about Buddhism and Taoism in some impressionable minds. The least he should do is to repair the damage and harm he has done.


THE TRUTHFULL ANSWER IS-

AN APOLOGY IS NOT ENOUGH? are you joking MR CHUA or what? from what i know he did not kill anyone neither did he lead a mob to beat up the Taoist and the Buddhist believers ...from what i understand some Buddhist convert went into his church by themselves to give a testimony by themselves about there old faith,,,, I NEVER HEARD THAT THEY WERE FORCED TO GIVE THOSE TESTIMONY IN ANYWAY, THEY DID BASED ON THERE OWN ACCOUNT and BELIEVES. What damage control do you reckon he does? who was damaged you or who? or do you reckon that Rony should now say he believes in Buddhism.
Or what on earth are you talking about? Pastor rony will never say he now believes in Buddhism or that his faith believes were wrong. what he only apologised to was that he was sorry for stating out his believes to the public in a way that condemns other religious believes in Singapore which may bring up religious stirrups in Singapore. The government as done well in this part,,, ALL religion are entitled to there own believes,,,but don't condemn, belittle or criticize any other religion publicly by speech or attitude simply meaning humanity before religion.
Pastor Rony Tan is sorry for the public condemnation and he as apologised and he is truly sorry for this... But he still does not believe in the teaching faith of Buddhism..... Ask any of your Christian or Muslim friends and family members in good faith they will tell you the same.The truth is that everyone believes his or her own religion is the only way to heaven the only thing is that our government warns that don't judge or criticize anyone simply because they do no share your religious believes.





Mr. Chua On February 12, 2010 8:34 AM you stated.

It is not my concern whether people of other religions will be converted to Christianity by Rony's misleading and false testimonies.
Here is an issue that people, including Christians, were up against. Misrepresentation and ridiculing another religion out of ignorance.

Today, many people have enough education and knowledge to read the Bible with a little effort. It all depends on what or how you want to read it. You will see only things that you want to see.

on some of the concepts of Buddhism. I have read some and the concept of rebirth and reincarnation is not easy to understand. What is being reincarnate, the soul, spirit, consciousness or whatever? And it will be worst for someone who did not bother to find out or understand the subject to make ridiculous remarks about it.

I wonder if Rony did attempt to understand what rebirth and reincarnation were before he laughed at these concepts. It needs exceptional high intellects to be able to explain what they are.

THE TRUTHFULL ANSWER IS-

Mr Chua you and many of the people on this blog are just done exactly the mistakes made by pastor rony,,if not worse, the only difference i see is that his was recorded on a tape and yours are done on a blog on computer,,, I can only tell you guys to be a little careful about what you type about other religious believes or you will be the ones doing the next apology TO NCC and the churches.
Come on grow up everyone,,,

When it comes to religion, Knowledge and education as nothing to do with it. FULL STOP!

It all comes down to access to religious information, personal experiences, the rights to practice , upbringing and background of were an individual comes from.

BONJE said...

ACCESS TO RELIGIOUS INFORMATION - Were my parents came from as a child, his father, my grandpa was a witch doctor, But when Christianity and Islamic preaching and information came to his country my father became a Christian and his elder brother became a Muslim, while the rest continued as witchdoctors and practiced witchcraft and acts of magic


PERSONAL EXPIRENCES - My father taught and tried to raise me in the Christian ways but i prefer the witchcraft and voodoo ways of my grandpa, so my father and i started a religious war in the house while growing up. I became voodoo grandmaster i had powered to invoked turns of demonic stuffs and spirit until one day the queen of the sea requested for me for some great assignment which i refused and i ran for my life. VERY LONG STORY!!
But thankfully after running for my life for many years Jesus SAVE ME. I have had a personal experience with Jesus. I cant prove it to you but i know him and the bible to be true,,, But i will never publicly condemn any other religion in Singapore but i can tell you and anyone the reason why i became a Christian, I will tell the story to anyone that cares to listen.

RIGHT TO PRACTICE - Some religious believes and practices are not allowed in some countries such as only Islam is allowed in some countries while Christianity is the only religion allowed in some. My fathers country only Islam ,Christianity and voodoo is allowed. no Hindu, Taoist, Buddhism. One of the Christian denomination which i believe is band in Singapore are the Jehovah witnesses Christian church, you can ask the government for this reason, I personally support the government on this.

UPBRINGING AND BACKGROUND - If was born in Saudi Arabia i probably will be a Muslim, if i was born in India i probably will be an Hindu, if i was born it Italy i probably will be a catholic, if my parents were Malay i have greater probability of becoming a Muslim, Same goes for my Singapore chinese and indian brothers and sisters.

I became a Christian because by Gods grace and because i had access to information about Jesus Christ, I believe the information by faith and not by knowledge proven fact or education and it as worked well for me,,, I believe what the bible says about doing on to others what you want others to do to you, which includes not badmouthing and criticize anyones believes or faith. The bible says we are to lead by examples not by hurting peoples feeling and scare tactical teaching,, but winning people over with love.

Jesus Christ only condemned the hypocrites in his religion (Jewish) pretending to be good, he never condemned people of different faiths rather he won them over by love and kind deeds.

BONJE said...

FINAL EXPLANATION.

This are my believes and the reasons i became a christian,, you can believe anything you like and i will respect your believes, faith and still love you like my singaporean brother or sister.

I believe Jesus is the son of God.

I believe that Pastor Rony made a mistake by putting down another religious faith believes openly and publicly. I believe that he is truly sorry for doing this and that was the reason he apologised but that does not imply that he now believes in Buddhism, but that he his truly sorry for hurting peoples of other faiths believes without empathy when he was teaching and preaching in his church.

I am a Christian because of my personal experience with Jesus and because it is the only religion that promises total healing from any sickness by faith in our lord Jesus Christ including cancer, HIV and any other chronic diseases or sickness, just name it.

If you doubt it kindly go to Pastor Rony's Church on any Saturday night miracle service to get healed of your chronic sicknesses and yes Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu, Eckancar, Armoc, Voodoo, Witchdoctor's, Babalawo, yemonja, Ogbanje, Aborisha, Ogboni, all types of christians and every religion are welcome to see the power of God healing the sick every Saturday night at lighthouse in pastor rony's church.

Thank GOD for the Singapore government for giving us the rights to practice our religious believes freely but with empathy.

HOPEFULLY ONEDAY I WILL HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF BECOMING A CITIZEN OF THIS BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY!!!

Please all Singaporean's cherish your peace unity and enjoy your multiracial and harmonious country. you will never know what you have till you lose it all.

GOD BLESS Singapore.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi 64 BITs, welcome to the blog.

In blogging, we should attempt to blog logically and sensibly. We would have contributed something if our chats help people to iron out their thoughts or trigger them to think clearer.

I agree with you that if our conscience is clear and can sleep well, that is enough.

Anonymous said...

Please uncles and aunties, make your comments short. I just almost fall asleep.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi BONJE, welcome to the blog, and thanks for the long post. Let me clarify a couple of points. I do have a copy of the NIV. And I have read it many times. Also, I do not call myself religious and I am not a buddhist nor a taoist. I was brought up in a family that pray to all kinds of 'shin', the nearest correct version is shintoism or shamamism. Today I just look at religion as religion, nothing more nothing less.

If you want to have a decent discussion on religion it should be about religion. If you want to discuss politics, just talk about politics. Anyone of these subjects is complicated enough. Mixing the two will only make it more confusing.

I did mention that if you want to discuss about beliefs, better not. Leave everyone to his/her own beliefs. I have no quarrel with you or anyone's belief. The only thing that can be decently discussed is factual stuff like what did the Bible say. What were the last words of Jesus? Eli, Eli, lamasabachatni! What do they mean? These can be discussed.

If you want me to believe in your conversation with Jesus, I won't doubt you and neither would I want to discuss it. It is futile.

The govt of China and Singapore are secular. They would not bother if you are Christian or Buddhist or anything. They run the countries by secular laws. A citizen, no matter what religion, is governed by secular laws and better obey the laws.

Yes, many religious people criticise other religions, mock and ridicule other believers, calling them names. Just don't be caught doing it in public or on video. Preaching is the profession of religious leaders. And they very well know the law of this country regarding how they can go about it.

Two jokers of different faith arguing themselves out in a kopitiam can be a personal matter. But when they post it in the net, it is a different matter.

I also say, are we up to it to discuss religion in a sensible and objective manner? If not, then don't discuss. The law does not forbid sensible discussions by mature and reasonable people. But when name callings start, threats, ridicules, mockings, then the law will put a stop to it.

This country will forbid any religious leader, no matter how big is his god, to ridicule another religion.

Jesus said, If your faith is as big as a mustard seed, you can move mountains or drink poison. Amen.

Anonymous said...

The Url of the Video clips of Pastor Rony Tan blasting and attacking Buddhism as below:


Pastor Rony Tan Blasts Buddhist Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIrtk5V_t-Q


Pastor Rony Tan Blasts Buddhist Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKBzyatd880


Pastor Rony Tan Blasts Buddhist Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfQwBu5ZWE


Pastor Rony Tan Blasts Buddhist Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4wKGg4mJ1g

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Oops, I forgot to tell you, BONJE. I have no faith. So whether my faith is strong or not is irrelevant.

I am waiting for a believer whose faith is strong to move mountains or drink poison, to prove that his faith is bigger than a mustard seed.

Jaunty Jabber said...

Hi Anon @1.03pm 12 Feb

I am asking this question because I really don't know, please pardon me if my question turned out to be offensive or silly.

You mentioned "..in the context of Christianity, death is better than life on earth because it is a transition to a higher place."

Based on the above line that you have mentioned, I have this question: What is christian's point of view over suicide?

64 BiT said...

People please Let this SAGA ends and don;t act More fuel to the Fire .

Vis a Vis Let this be a Lesson to tell us ALL that we should not ridicule others' beliefs system based on egoistic " Instinct " .

We are all born from our mother's Womb , we bleed the same Color Blood and we Shit the same smelly poo .

So for once practise love and Respect to one another regardless of whatever beliefs - and learn to analyse things and sort out your thoughts everytime before you go to sleep because frankly life is really that short and unpredictable for you to continue ranting here and there looking at things in a dualistic manner .

I wish you ALL a Meaningful Loving Life

GOD'S SEEKER said...

I agree with Bonje 100 %
Please brother just close this religious chapter,,, All the religious scholars in the world cant even solve it
The truth 100% truth is that most religion are against other faith.

Islam believes in just one God called Allah and that an angel appeared to a man to pass on a message about God to mankind.

Christianity believes that God is 3 in 1 and that God the father sent his son to save us and also to teach us ways back to God by paying with is life.

Buddhism believe that a prince became wise man by starving himself and denying himself of worldly enjoyment he somehow became wise and some how realises that we need to do good. The Hindus believe that cows, monkeys, and elephants are Gods.

The truth is that according to the books of Christianity and Islam, Buddhist & Taoist and the Hindus are all seen as idol worshipers in the sites of both Christians and Muslims...

The Government understands this so they have to take a stand on humanity first before religious believes.

Obama's father was a muslim but he his a Christian.


So just stop this blog and shut it down and pray to the God that created heaven and earth to show you the truthfully way.

REMEMBER!!! for over 2000 years after the death of Jesus Christ his people the Israelites are not yet christians

So i can guarantee you beyond reasonable doubt you will not solve religious problems on this blog....

So just practice you religious believe with empathy, think of others feelings.



For Christians and everyone that as got a bible, if you read and believe in it, I want you to read and ask yourself what really happened in this chapter

please read the book of ACTS chapter 3 verse 1 to 10

READ IT AND ASK WHICH GOD GAVE THIS PEOPLE SUCH POWER TO DO THAT? OR IS THE BIBLE A BOOK OF LIES?

This is something we can talk about, faith versus other faith is just to sensitive please stop. I DO NOT WANT A FATWA ON MY HEAD

Anonymous said...

I am a Christian all my life, find what Pastor Tan did is offensive and wrong. I believe I am not the only one.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi GOD's SEEKER, welcome to the blog and discussion. I know you meant well, and so are all the bloggers here. Shutting up is not a solution because people don't shut up and are continuing to talk about it in the kopitiam or in places of worship, in parties or behind closed doors. In the days when people are ignorant, it is good for them to shut up and listen. We used to have this kind of mindset even in politics and now the govt is also worried that the people are unthinking and apathetic to what is becoming to their country. They will just pack up and go when they are not happy. Because they were not allow to talk about their unhappiness and the only other way it out.

We should and must talk about issues, even sensitive issues on race and religion, but only if we can engage them objectively and as mature adults. Don't flame, attack or threaten anyone, don't mock or ridicule, discuss sensibly, calmly and with reasons. We are no longer ignorant kids or peasants. Are we up to it to talk about such issues?

What Rony did has been brushed of by some as something trivial and need not be raised again. Just look at the reactions here when I or the bloggers have not come anywhere near what Rony had said. There were anger and threats. Why so angry and at the same time telling others not to be angry of what Rony did?

We should talk about these issues and try to clarify any misunderstand and misconceptions that have been caused. Or it will be something like a lawyer telling the jury something detrimental about the accused only to be overruled by the judge. And the judge telling the jury to ignore what was said. But the seed of misunderstanding and mistrust have already been planted.

And GOD's SEEKER, your comment that 100% of all faiths were against other faith is a false premise to start with. I may not know much about all other faiths, but I am very sure the Buddhist and Taoist faith, and Hindu faith do not have doctrines or beliefs that are against other faiths. They did not bother about what other people believe in. You can witness the buddhists, taoists, the hindus, the 'pai shin' Chinese going to all the houses of worship and even join in the activities.

You are right only in the faith of Christianity and Islam. Both faiths claim to the true faith and others were false. I may add Judaism. In the days of Jesus, they don't allow the gentiles to enter their synagogues. They don't enter the homes of the gentiles. Acts 10:27.

The person you referred to in Acts 3 is an Israelite or from the chosen race.

Anonymous said...

All religion are equal, no religion is superior or the others. A good religion is one who preaches us to do good. Any teaching otherwise is deviant.
For Pastor Rony Tan, based on what you said to belittle Buddhism, I can only say your understanding of your religion is still lacking. Maybe you should take a year off and reflect on your action and improve on your understanding of religion.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Allow me to take up Jaunty's question and Anonymous 1:03 who said "..in the context of Christianity, death is better than life on earth because it is a transition to a higher place."

Is this true, that death and paradise are better than living here on earth?

In Genesis, God warned Adam from eating the fruit of knowledge, for he shall die if he ate the fruit. Can I conclude that living in the garden of Eden, forever is good and dying is bad?

But dying, like Anon 1:03 said, means one can go on to paradise. Without dying, Adam shall remain on earth in Eden. Which is better? If paradise is better, then we should thank Adam for eating the fruit. Or thank Eve for tempting him. Or thank the talking snake for telling Eve about eating the fruit.

Eve and the snake made it possible for man to die and go to heaven. So for those men and women who are going to heaven, because now they can die, why are you not grateful to Eve and the snake?

Anonymous said...

Thunder of God is listening with his white warriors. BEWARE! You could all go to hell.............!

Anonymous said...

Allow me to take up Jaunty's question and Anonymous 1:03 who said "..in the context of Christianity, death is better than life on earth because it is a transition to a higher place."

"Is this true, that death and paradise are better than living here on earth?"

I said and will say it again, it is "in the context of Christianity" death is better than living on earth and that it is only a transition, and well call it heaven, though I do not know what your 'paradise' entails.

I will not reply you further because it is obvious you do not seek to understand, from your negativity. If you wish to know more, I suggest you read the Bible with an open-mind and not judge it according to your own set of references.

Otherwise, you will never understand.

Happy CNY to all!

Anonymous said...

Before anyone jumps on the bandwagon driven by ignorance again, there is also this concept of eternal life and eternal death which are different than life and death as we know it which is only physical.

Also, to those who insist that everything has to have a logic and because religion is not 100% logical, it is hogwash.

To these individuals, try asking yourself, is love logical? Are fear, greed, jealousy, hatred etc. all that logical?

Why is human kind obssessed with love if it is not all logic? Why are we so driven by things that aren't as logical as we think they are and even justify our actions with those things?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Rony Tan pronounced that the Buddhists were like the blind leading the blind because they did not know what nirvana is. Now you said, 'I said and will say it again, it is "in the context of Christianity" death is better than living on earth and that it is only a transition, and well call it heaven, though I do not know what your 'paradise' entails.'

If you do not know what paradise entails, isn't it similar to Rony's logic of the blind leading the blind? Or you know what heaven is and where and how to get there?

Jaunty Jabber said...

My question posted on 12 Feb @5.09PM is asking about the christianity point of view over suicide, I am not asking for logic or logical answer, I am asking about perspective.

By the way, I discussed this with someone and was told in the Christian's belief, our bodies are the temple of God, therefore it is our responsibility to take care of our bodies, not supposed to cause harm to our own body. Suicide is destroying own body thus = destroying the temple of God deliberately.

Anyone with other point of view or other understanding, I would appreciate the sharing.

Anonymous said...

If your body is the temple of God, then only God can reside in it.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Today's paper has a half page coverage on Rony Tan. He was remorseful and contemplated leaving Singapore. His believers were so touched by his honesty and sincerity. Another Christian, a Mr Tan, who used to attend his church thought the apology was a long time coming.

I am still waiting for him to show some real sincerity in inviting some knowledgeable Buddhists and Taoists to speak to his flock to enlighten them and correct the misleading statements he made.

When the loan shark runners came to paint a flat with ugly graffitis, they should be made to clean up the mess, scrub the walls of all the paints to make them look right again. Letting them off with a warning is too light and easy. I will like to see loan shark runners cleaning the walls they painted in front of the owners.

Of course it would be unfair to expect Rony to say something good about Buddhism or Taoism, for he knew not of the two religions.

Anonymous said...

'Of course it would be unfair to expect Rony Tan to say something good about Buddhism or Taosim..."

Even if he had good knowledge of these two religions, it is against his teachings.

Read 'Yeap Chee Seng's blog' for an insiders view of their thinking.

Anonymous said...

The punishment a person receives should be tagged to his or her influence. For example, comparing a school teacher and a taxi-driver breaking the same law, the former's punishment tends to be higher, since he has greater impact on the society. In view of the fact that Rony Tan was let off so lightly, I was a little surprised, especially with his impact on his entire 12,000 believers. This is especially so from the point of view of the stability of Singapore and of the religious harmony we have achieved so far. This further shows how fragile our society is - one stupid person can influence 12,000 others - which is really "blind leading the blind". If we have more Rony Tans, the Singapore society would be endangered....

Anonymous said...

What I think is Rony Tan's case is the tip of the iceberg - a greater problem surfacing. i spoke with a few Christian friends. What they feel is that there is NOTHING wrong with what Rony Tan says - rather, he should do it "behind closed doors".

Anonymous said...

There is only one word to describe the man namely; Rony Tan, he is very dangerous !

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Well, he has vowed to promote religious harmony. Let's wait and see what he will do. If he could start by saying that Buddhism and Taoism are not false religion or Buddhists are not influenced by demons.

That would be a good start.

Anonymous said...

It is hopeless to wait for him to clarify that other religions are not false religions. If he were to speak like this, that shows that previously he has lied. In fact, by apologizing, he is already not standing to his faith.
Go back to the basics, this type of belief is extremely dangerous for a small vulnerable nation like Singapore.
Unfortunately, if you go to other blogs, he does have many "supporters" - this is even more dangerous.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

He is remorseful, very sincere in his apology. He regretted what he had done. He vowed to work for religious harmony and to respect other people's beliefs and religions.

Let's be patient and wait.

Anonymous said...

Rony Tan has supporters, no doubt about that.

What is troubling me is whether he is the only one doing what he does or are there others?

The lack of condemnation from those in charge of the various Christian faith is not reassuring. It denotes more than what is apparent on the surface.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The awkward part is that are we prepared to face the truth or pretend that everyone is honest and telling the truth?

The adult world is full of hypocrisy. Just like Japan is allowed to continue to hunt for whales in a big scale when whaling has been banned. But Japan said it was killing the whales for research and everyone closes an eye and let it be.

So Japan continues to go whale hunting...for research.

Same thing, how to tell someone to own up and tell the truth, that he believes that his is the only truth religion and others are false and worshipping the devil? For him to embrace and kiss the devil worshipper is first class hypocrisy. For him not to do so and tell the truth is not permitted.

How?

Anonymous said...

38 Point-by-point Clarifications of Misconceptions in Pastor Rony Tan’s Vids can be seen @
http://tinyurl.com/ygerfp3

Anonymous said...

My late father(born 1913, died 11 years ago) told me that he found Chinese who believed in religions queer. He said that the Chinese worshipped only ancestors only before aliens introduced religions into China.

When I asked why worship our ancestors ? He explained that without ancestors, we would not come into being.

I find the ancient Chinese very wise without religion.

atheist me.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The Chinese, the Indians, the early Jews, they called themselves differently, and many other races practised shamanism or worshipping to the spirits of all things. The Chinese called them 'shin'. It is a kind of living in unity with nature, co existence,believing that all things having some spiritual lives in them. See Avatar.

In such a situation there is no religion to compare and fight about. No division and no hatred because one claims that one is true and others are false, and even want to change others or save others to one's belief. This is the danger of religions that are unforgiving and have no room for the existence of other religions. The seed of division and war is planted in such religions.

Jaunty Jabber said...

Further to my question over the christian's perspective on suicide, I am curious over the christian's point of view towards euthanasia.

If my body is the temple of God, I will have to take care of it. Taking care of myself shall include eliminating damage and reducing any pain to my body, as much as possible. In this case, if I were to be terminally ill and my body is deteriorating, would euthanasia be an option to shorten the destruction to the temple of God?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The hit squad has left, or not responding. They have been gagged.

Anonymous said...

Dear all,

Although I am a Buddhist, I have alot of Christian friends too. They do not condemn our religion so I sincerely believe that this is a isolated case.

Please let the matter rest. I do not wish to see another religious issue spurring out in Singapore. All is fair and equal.

Let's cool down and love one another again q(^;^)p

Love,
Angeline

Jaunty Jabber said...

No heat, the climate has cooled down in this blog post. Questions raised are for interest over the religion.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Angeline, welcome to the blog.

I think we are all sensible people and discussing about a current issue that is of interest to everyone. And we have been very cool and sensible in our coments. You should have read the comments in other blogs, it will frighten the daylight out of many readers.

Not talking about the issue will not remove the problem. It stays hidden. We should be mature enough to talk about it without getting personal and trying to hurt each other. Or are we so incapable of engaging in a adult discussion such as this?

Anonymous said...

There are two aspects to take note: (i) personal cultivation; and (ii) social responsibility.

At a personal cultivation, it is important that as Buddhists or practitioners of any religion, we don't get overheated. Have compassion for the moronic speech and the speaker.

As a social being, we HAVE the responsibility to play a part in maintaining racial harmony. As a Buddhist myself, i think it is important that we should NOT allow such thoughts to take its roots in such a vulnerable small nation. Even if Rony were to speak ill of other religions like Islam or Hinduism, I believe we shall point out the problem and "educate" him. Unfortunately, he is not "educated" after giving a less than sincere apology.


The Singapore society will get into trouble if there are so many "calm Buddhists" who keep quiet and forgive, and let this type of radical thoughts grow. I believe that the society will become chaotic if those in the right mind would not speak up to the potentially dangerous thing that has surfaced.

This is especially worrying if the Christians simply remain quiet and argue for Rony by quoting freedom of speech......

We need to remain calm, but at the same time play a part for the Singapore society. It is important that such wrong behavior must be rectified.

Jaunty Jabber said...

This pastor got himself into another trouble. Some 85 people lodged police report against his offensive comments about the gay men and lesbians.

http://www.fridae.com/newsfeatures/2010/02/18/9670.police-reports-lodged-against-singapore-pastor-over-offensive-gay-and-lesbian-remarks

APOSTLE Paul said...

I AM A CHRISTIAN, I LOVE EVERYBODY OF EVERY RACE. I OPENLY DO NOT SUPPORT THE BIBLE AND I WILL ALWAYS DISCOURAGE GAY, LESBOS, ADULTREY, FORNICATION AND ANY SIN MY BIBLE CONDEMS OR DECLARES AS SIN.I COULD NOT CARELESS HOW YOU FEEL OR WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ME OR THE BIBLE,,, AS LONG AS OUR GOVERNMENT DOES NOT CRIMINALIZE THE BIBLE, I WILL STAND BY IT TILL I DIE.. GAY, LESBOS AND HOMOSEXSUALITY IS A SIN IN MY EYES AND MIND, CALL IT BLUE OR RED. CALL IT WHATEVER YOU MAY. ALL REAL CHRISTIAN THAT AS EVER READ AND UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE KNOW THIS FOR A FACT AND I REPEAT..... REAL CHRISTIANS!!! KNOW THIS FOR A FACT. I OPENLY DECLARE TO ANYONE THAT CARES TO LISTEN THAT TO BE GAY IS A SIN ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE! BIBLE! BIBLE!

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Apostle Paul, welcome to the blog and thanks for your comment.

I somehow find your view pretty strong. The Bible was written many thousand years back and their knowledge on how babies are made and why there are gays and lesbians may be dated.

Today we know that some of them are born gay or somehow not the norm. Maybe we should let them live as they are as they have no choice on how they are made. If God wants them made that way, it will be so.

Jaunty Jabber said...

Sorry if my sharing of a piece of news caused some people to be upset. I did not report the news, I did not make any judgement. Even when I have some questions to ask, they are pure things that I am keen to know.

I do not love everybody because I cannot love anyone that I do not know personally, when I do not know them, love cannot develop.

Love is so previous and meaningful that I will only give my love to those who I can develop my love with.

The above paragraphs are off-track, apology to take up this comments space.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Jaunty,

What you have posted is nothing new. It is in the papers. You can't expect everyone to react to such news calmly. Everyone will have feelings and emotions and values and beliefs.

What is important is to be able to keep calm and stay sensible : )

Anonymous said...

Thanks Redbean >.<

As an adult, I believe that we are matured enough to discuss certain "Tabooed" issues. It is just that I see that the discussions are getting heated up e.g. Whose god is the true one, which is more almighty etc..

I seriously believe that regardless of the Gods we believe in, we should not be condemning other religion. Unless u die, there is no way of finding out whther is there Heaven or Hell.

Personally, I have encountered my Maid being possessed before. Two ebled man can't even restraint my maid. But when my uncle arrived, he made some prayers, took some joss stick ashes and sprayed onto the maid's face. Immediately, the maid slumped to the ground and no longer struggling.

Although I am not the supersitious type of people, I am amazed at the entire unexplained encounter. But despite this incident, I do not believe that my religion is the sole / supreme one.

I do believe that non of the religion ( Except Cults ) instigates the followers to kill or enter war. Peace / Harmony and being Humane to one another should be the main piority of all righteous religion.

Co-existance of religion is not a difficult thing. We just need to understand and learn to accept the differences in everyone, including charecter and believes. In the end, we are all human beings and to err is human.

Let us work hand in hand and make Singapore a better place to live in ^^

Angeline

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Angeline,

You are looking at the issues from a reasonable man's point of view. Unfortunately some religious text are pretty unforgiving and steadfast in their doctrines. They are prepared to kill in the names of their gods.

When the colonialists conquered the American, African and Asian countries, they went with their guns and their gods and killed many natives who didn't believe in their gods.

How I wish all religious books are written by reasonable men. The truth is that they were not. People avoid talking about it, but believing in it seriously. Unless religious texts are expunged of all the wicked thoughts and violence, it is just a time bomb waiting for the right moment to blow up.

For the moment everyone is pretending that all is well and all religious books are against violence. This is furthest from the truth.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

If I were to start a religious order, the first thing I will do is to edit the holy books, rid them of all the heresies and blasphemous verses, with the guidance of the almighty of course.

Then teach the believers to believe in the good stuff, but also be thinking and discerning.

Jaunty Jabber said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jaunty Jabber said...

Hi Angeline, I have a question to ask, hope you don't mind.

About your encounter of the maid being possessed, how do you know that she was "possessed"? What happened?

64 BIT said...

Everything That has a beginning has an End

When this Universe Ends in regards to a Big bang or whatsoever in destorying all lives on earth as it is .

All beings will returned to the primordial Source , and ALL answers shall be Known .

Just know that there are no demons out there , but only demons in your mind who befriend your EGO since your birth .

So the most important thing to do in life is to know the demon in youself and not constantly find faults in others , learn to Cultivate yourself to be a better person and to benefit the society in everyway that you can .

when you can achieve this stage you will have a understanding that religion will not be needed anymore .

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Wise saying 64 Bits. What if there is no beginning and no ending? It just goes round and round?

The big bang is not the beginning. Many conditions must be ripe for the big bang to happen.

Anonymous said...

Not far off. Melting ice, sick earth, infertile soil, exhausting oil, all kinds of genetically altered food from animals and plants. Soon, very soon, we will know the result of eating such food.

We will destroy ourselves.

64 BIT said...

Sir Mr. Chua , Everything like Birth and Death , War and peace , Beginnning of Any events leads to Ending it eventually for certain , and this Rony tan Saga will be forgotten someday and Precisely that is what i mean by Everything that has a Beginning Has An End ( For this Saga ) : ))

On the Big Bang Theory ( if we do believe that it had and does happen ) which is entirely base on hypothesis of cosmology . It Begins with a " BIG BANG " and keeps expanding where someday it will ends too , then follows by another Big bang and a new beginning again til it Ends . This are all theory by scientists of course if you believe in them , for me i am open to such thoughts .

You mentioned that certain conditions must be ripe for the Big bang to " Happen " . Yea i had read that somewhere too regarding these , well who really knows the " TRUTH " out there and can we really verfied it ourself ?

I Myself doesn;t know for sure , but perhaps only when we are dead and back to the " Source " we will find answers to our " Purposes " in Life , Or Maybe we all will never know at all and will never be allowed to know given our limited capabilities on this " seemingly " plane of Existence .

Perhaps we are all simulations or programs living in a high tech virtual reality environment ( something like the Sims ) , where our real " purposes " is for " their " enjoyment ?
, and Needless to say What most important now in life for us all is to have constructive thoughts and behaviour .

One thing for sure , we will Die one day so Die with a sense of Fullfillment and without regrets .

So people Make this LIFE of YOURS a Meaningful One NOW this very second !

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Yes 64 Bits, live now, live the moment that you have. Paradise can wait, for it may not come or we may not be there.

The big bang theory or whatever theory, is still a cycle that goes round and round. The end is the beginning. The beginning is the end. To be born is to die. To die is to live again. All life cycles follows this formula. But some religion believe that it is only a straight and limited path. One has no past. Born and exist today and no longer exist after death. Then wait to be awaken on that faithful day to live forever, or to vanish forever.

Two completely different formulas. No one knows for sure which is the truth. But some believe they know.

Anonymous said...

Form those who believe in gods, i believe in You.
What i find baffling is why are there 'true' Christians, 'true Muslims, 'true' others(religious) ?????????

Secondary School Student :| said...

HAHAHAHA.

this be srs bsns.

For Rony Tan to use a dumb fool who doesn't know a single thing about buddhism. DUH. I mean. Of course that Joseph is left unanswered by being a buddhist when HE HIMSELF is BELIEVING in the WRONG thing. I mean, he's just being a buddhist so that he can achieve Nirvana and be a status higher than God? What Bullshet . oh my Rony Tan I feel so sorry for you to actually believe that you believed him. If buddhism was the case as what Joseph had described, then why are there many buddhists in the world? And oh-please ... Buddhism is not about achieving god-like status, but it is a believe to follow, that teaches us about doing the right things.

AND OH YEAH! bah I have to agree with you Mr Rony Tan to say that Joseph is a "lousy monk". Cause he really is. IMO he's not even fit to be a monk, when his mindset was so self-centred.*-derail-derail-

Furthermore,how the hell does he know that a DEMON from SATAN had engulfed the so-called-ex-NUN and the Tibetan Monk to have the same views of the so-called-5-past-lives-she-had? Is he implying that Buddhism is OVERRULED by a demon?

Outrageous.

RONY TAN:

Buddha-I'm still searching for the way...*dies*

Jesus- I am the way.







wut?!

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Secondary School Student, welcome to the blog.

The last words of Jesus, 'Lord, Lord, why have you forsaken me!' He didn't believe that his death was planned by God to save him and man from his sins.

Maybe that is the reason why we are still sinners.

Anonymous said...

Ha.a.a.a Uncle Rony Tan, he finds Singapore too peaceful for comfort and stirred it up a little.

Ex-monk...NO lah! that one hor, not a monk yet..but novice. Before he can crawl he wants to ran. Nivarna...of course he can't find, even if it is already on his palm, he thinks it is bluff one. I hope he can find heaven under Uncle Rony Tan because this poor ignorant person just assisted in creating Hell.

As for the girl hor, I 'clap clap' her lah! Call herself a ex-nun, lucky she no nun anymore...shame, shame. I am sure all her ex Buddhist teachers, gurus, monks are DEVILs, they love her and guided her once lah!. Even now hor, you go ask all these people she called FAKEs hor, they still will have compassion for her...lost sheep ma! Must sayang wan.

I wonder hor, whether Uncle Rony dare attacked the Muslim and Hindu as well and complete the set. He needs the ISD to give him some senses as to what is country harmony...this type of religious leader hor... I become terriorist also don know why leh!

Oh mi tou fo lah!...Uncle Rony you have more curses on your back than praises. Now people laughing not at you but those that follow you de. Blind follow blind mah! How can you hurt other fellow citizens...your head inside blur blur huh? Leader leh, how come no think properly before open your BMW.

Follow you go Heaven, no follow you go Hell ah? What...you think your Lighthouse exclusive club to God's Heaven huh?

Buddhist hor...no wan Heaven and no wan Hell lah. Uncle, you know the ultimate goal of Buddhist or not? Next time, before you say say only, study a bit Sun Zi Bing Fa.

Ah Huay from my Country, my Home...Singapore lah!

64 BiT said...

One of the Definition of " RELIGION " is an outward act or form by which human species indicate their recognition of the existence of a " god " or of gods having power over their destiny, to whom obedience, service, and honor are due; the feeling or expression of human love, FEAR , or awe of some superhuman and overruling power, whether by profession of belief, by observance of rites and ceremonies, or by the conduct of life; a system of faith and worship; a manifestation of piety; as, ethical religions; monotheistic religions; natural religion; revealed religion; the religion of idol worshipers .

To End this comment i have a very beautiful Quote to Share with all over here , it's from a Roman philosopher named seneca

“ RELIGION is regarded by the Common People as True, by the Wise as False, and by the Rulers as useful ”



PEACE to ALL

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Mao said, Religion is the opiate of the people: )

Like taking ice, feel damn good, and hallucinate lagi shiok: )

frz665 said...

REPLY TO JAUNTY JABER:
haha good one no wonder ur college is speechless

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi frz665, welcome to the blog.

The silence is due to an edict from the high priest. They have been told not to reply.

The sad thing is that no one will even dare to engage in logical discussion. Unthinking? My advice to everyone is to use the grey matter to its fullest. Once you surrender your logic and reasoning power to anyone, you stop being a thinking person.

Jaunty Jabber said...

I am really looking forward to answers to the questions I asked. Things like the christian point of view over euthanasia and what has happened to Angeline's maid when she was "possessed".

Bernie said...

The problem that so many people are making anti christian remarks in the first place is that christians have always been converting people!! Many things go on behind the closed doors of Churches. One is denigrating religions.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Bernie, welcome to the blog.
Yes, there are irreconcilable differences betw Christianity and its other variations and Islam versus other religions. Pretending that they can co exist is hypocrisy.

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi said...

According to His Holiness Maharaj Sahab (1861-1907), the 3rd Spiritual Head of Radha Soami Faith, “during satyayuga,………..in consequence of their greater spirituality and of the high purity of their heart, had no difficulty in getting access at times into the astral planes and holding communion with the departed spirits.” (Source: Discourses on Radhasoami Faith). Greater Spirituality as mentioned above is linked to the size of pineal gland. In Satyauga pineal gland was highly developed but in Kaliyuga the pineal gland is a rudimentary (undeveloped) organ. This is downward evolution of humankind. We should ascertain the period taken from highly developed pineal gland to undeveloped pineal gland. This will determine the Age of Human Existence on this Earth Planet. Other arguments, as I think, will not help much.
In Bhagavad-Gita Lord SriKrishna says to Arjuna:
“I taught this immortal Yoga to Vivasvan (sun-god), Vivasvan conveyed it to Manu(his son), and Manu imparted it to (his son) Iksvaku. Thus transmitted to succession from father to son, Arjuna, this Yoga remained known to the Rajarisis (royal sages). It has however long since disappeared from this earth. The same ancient Yoga has this day been imparted to you by Me, because you are My devotee and friend, and also because this is a supreme secret”.
At this Arjuna said: You are of recent origin while the birth of Vivasvan dates back to remote antiquity. How, then, I am to believe that you taught this Yoga at the beginning of creation? Lord SriKrishna said: Arjuna, you and I have passed through many births. I remember them all, you do not remember.
1. Radha Soami Faith was founded by His Holiness Param Purush Puran Dhani Huzur Soamiji Maharaj on the prayer of His Holiness Huzur Maharaj who later on became second Spiritual Head of Radha Soami Faith. The prime object of the Radha Soami Faith is the emancipation of all Jeevas (Souls) i.e. to take the entire force of consciousness to its original abode. There is a tradition of succession of Gurus or Spiritual Adepts in Radha Soami Faith. I am one of them as is evident from the following facts or ….
“My most Revered Guru of my previous life His Holiness Maharaj Sahab, 3rd Spiritual Head of Radhasoami Faith had revealed this secret to me during trance like state.
HE told me, “Tum Sarkar Sahab Ho” (You are Sarkar Sahab). Sarkar Sahab was one of the most beloved disciple of His Holiness Maharj Sahab. Sarkar Sahab later on became Fourth Spiritual Head of Radhasoami Faith.
Since I don’t have any direct realization of it so I can not claim the extent of its correctness. But it seems to be correct. During my previous birth I wanted to sing the song of ‘Infinite’ (Agam Geet yeh gawan chahoon tumhri mauj nihara, mauj hoi to satguru soami karoon supanth vichara) but I could not do so then since I had to leave the mortal frame at a very early age. But through the unbounded Grace and Mercy of my most Revered Guru that desire of my past birth is being fulfilled now.”

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Thanks for the post, Anirudh Kumar Satsangi. And welcome to the blog.

The Indians have been practising meditation for centuries and have a very deep knowledge of the different planes of existence. But such knowledge will only be seen as occult or demonic to the Abrahamic faith. It is a waste of time trying to explain what these are.

Anonymous said...

This Article and the Comments have been the MOST ENLIGHTENING.

Even the Questions posed by Jaunty are enlightening.

Wonderful !

Anonymous said...

Hi Mr Chua
You said you are not a believer in christianity, yet you quote the christian bible in some of your posts. May I suggest you do not do this as you will misrepresent christianity.
thank you.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Would you rather listen someone who claims to be a Christian and misquote the bible or someone who is not a Christian and quotes the bible as it is?

Or are you going to push for a ban on all non Christians from quoting the bible? Like only muslims can used the word Allah?

Seek ye first the truth. And the truth shall set you free.

I was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel.

Are you a gentile or the lost sheep of Israel?

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know of anybody, especially scientists, with proof of a world flood that was said to have happened on Earth.
Was there ever one?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

In matters of faith, you don't need science. I am sure many things happened in the lighthouse that beat science and science cannot explain.

64 BiT said...

HahahaHa Science are just like religion , to further Delude the so called " SMart " People who thinks they knows all .

Blunt as i am , Mixed some truth into a pack of Lies and Walla ! Abracadabra !

SCIENCE + RELIGION = ??

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi said...

On 23rd May a news appeared in various news papers that Craig Venter had created artificial life. He was working over project this since very long along with his team mates. You may also have heard that Johnjoe McFadden has given a Electromagnetic Field Theory of Consciousness/Mind. We all know that Physics describes four fundamental forces in the universe. They are Gravitational Force, Electromagnetic Force, Weak Nuclear Force and Strong Nuclear Force. They are responsible for the creation of particles, subatomic structures, atomic structures, molecules,elements etc. For natural things (life etc.)to be created, natural forces (God Forces) act in natural ways. When man operates and manipulates these forces and creates some new things or old one it is said ‘artificial’. For me everything is natural. Since man is the part of nature so everything created by him, in-vivo or in-vitro, using Forces of Nature is also natural and not artificial.

I have given a theory of consciousness and mind as below:

“Gravitation Force is the Ultimate Creator”, I presented this paper at the 1st Int. Conf. on Revival of Traditional Yoga, held at The Lonavla Yoga Institute (India), Lonavla, Pune in 2006. The Abstract of this paper is given below:

“The Universe includes everything that exists. In the Universe there are billions and billions of stars. These stars are distributed in the space in huge clusters. They are held together by gravitation and are known as galaxies. Sun is also a star. Various members of the solar system are bound to it by gravitation force. Gravitation force is the ultimate cause of birth and death of galaxy, star and planets etc. Gravitation can be considered as the cause of various forms of animate and inanimate existence. Human form is superior to all other forms. Withdrawal of gravitational wave from some plane of action is called the death of that form. It can be assumed that gravitation force is ultimate creator. Source of it is ‘God’. Gravitational Field is the supreme soul (consciousness) and its innumerable points of action may be called as individual soul (consciousness). It acts through body and mind. Body is physical entity. Mind can be defined as the function of autonomic nervous system. Electromagnetic waves are its agents through which it works. This can be realized through the practice of meditation and yoga under qualified meditation instruction. This can remove misunderstanding between science and religion and amongst various religions. This is the gist of all religious teachings – past, present and future.”

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi said...

Thanks for the comments Chu Chin Leng. You said: "It is waste of time trying to explain what these are." Why Mr. Leng? How can a matter of scientific study be termed as waste of time?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Anirudh, I repost my earlier statement here to give it its proper context.

'The Indians have been practising meditation for centuries and have a very deep knowledge of the different planes of existence. But such knowledge will only be seen as occult or demonic to the Abrahamic faith. It is a waste of time trying to explain what these are.'

When I said it is a waste of time explaining, I meant to the Abrahamic faith followers. They would not believe a wee bit what the Indians would tell them about meditation and all the theories and principles behind them. They already made up their minds.

In science and the scientific approach towards discovery of new knowledge, the mind must be open, study, question, research, and objectively try to explain a theory or whatever with empirical data and evidence.

In the minds of believers, they chose to believe what they want to believe and reject whatever they want to reject. So it is a waste of time in that sense.

Anonymous said...

'I think and therefore I am........'
So just be what You think You are and keep it to yourselves.
The weak follows, the fool imitates and the imaginative deludes (oneself).
Me thinks one should be useful, peaceful and enjoy living whilst alive.
Time and space are infinite and therefore impossible to decipher. Whoever
'pretending' or 'claiming' to know something undecipherable must be having the most wonderful high in ones' life.
Surely, one can enjoy ones' belief privately and get all the high one wants without bothering others.
OR AM I ALSO GUILTY OF INTERFERING FOR SAYING SO?

Anonymous said...

Believing in Rony Tan
is worse than believing in the talking snake.

Anonymous said...

BBC documentary, etc. etc. recorded that Jesus could have been a Buddhist. May be but he was definitely a Jew.

The Bible was written by a council set up by the Romans, i.e. those who discriminated the early Christians.

Jesus said he is the God (a God) and he talked to his father, also the God (a God). Christianity, a religion of 2 Gods. + the holy spirit. 1=2

Or rather, did Jesus actually say he is God? Elvis is God too to some.

Salvation is free. So be sinful, then convert. Nice marketing call... for the fools, by the church (some churches).

Anonymous said...

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