In the political debate on CNA, several numbers were thrown up with the PAP using the 10m population red herring to attack Chee Soon Juan. The accusation is that Chee is 'attempting to mislead Singaporeans by claiming that the Govt planned to increase the country's population to 10 million, and further twisting facts when his falsehood was caught out'. And with this, SDP's integrity is now in question. Accepting that this is how politicians attacked each other and grabbing on any statement made to score a point, there are more to come in the campaigning and politiking for the next few days. Cheng Bock called this as political ploy. Some may call it papsmear or personal attack.
What did Chee said during the debate? Was he asserting that the Govt is planning a 10m population or was he asking Vivian if the Govt was planning for a 10m population? By the way, where did these numbers come from? Who originated these numbers? There is no smoke without fire. I thought I heard Chee asking Vivian to confirm if this is true. Those who watched this programme, please confirm my understanding. If Chee was asking Vivian to confirm, then what was so wrong about it? Cannot ask question meh? Cannot ask the Govt to confirm if it is or it is not meh? Asking a question like that also got integrity problem meh? Children in school better stop asking questions.
The question by Chee brought Vivian to give an affirmative answer that the Govt did not intend to go to 6.9m or 10m. In fact Vivian also said that the Govt did not set such a target. Anyway it would take time to reach 6.9m or 10m. Even if 6.9m is reached by 2030, no one is wiser. Many would be dead by then and no one would be around to settle the score. It is thus a moot point whether the Govt is working towards 6.9m, 10m or 20m. There were some educated clowns talking about 20m is a good target. Oops, cannot call them clowns. Apologies, educated professionals, experts are better descriptions of such people.
This whole issue is about whether the Govt is planning to grow the population to 6.9m, 10m or more. There is no time frame to it and the Govt can say anything. What is important is that Vivian has spoken on behalf of the Govt that it is not planning to do so to assure those who are against this idea. What if the Govt said before the GE there was no such plan but after GE there is?
Another interesting number that was quoted by Vivian was that 60,000 foreign PMETs have lost their jobs in the first 5 months of this year. I hope I did not hear this wrongly. Please correct me if I am wrong. I take this as a fact for the moment. If 60,000 foreign PMETs lost their jobs in the first 5 months of 2020, then how many Singaporeans PMETs would have lost their jobs in the same period? If the ratio is 1:1, then 60,000 Singaporean PMETs must have also lost their jobs, bringing the total to 120,000 in 5 months, ie 14,000 job losses per month. This is just a guess, it could be 1 Singapore PMET to 2 foreign PMETs or a different variation of this. What is the true number of Singaporean PMETs losing their jobs in the same period?
Take another ratio that was put up by Vivian. He said for every foreign PMET working here, there are 7 Singapore PMETs to match. If we use this ratio of 1:7 in a simplistic manner, for 60,000 foreign PMETs losing their jobs, then 420,000 Singaporean PMETs would have lost their jobs, ceteris pari bus. But this is not true definitely. But this 1:7 ratio could also lead to the estimate total number of PMET positions in Singapore. PSP used a number of 400,000 foreign PMETs here. So the number of Singaporean PMETs working must be 2.8m, giving a total population of PMETs at 3.2m. The number does not seem right. 3.2m is about the total working population of Singapore. Then how to account for the 2m or so non PMETs working here, ie the workers? Adding the two numbers together, it would mean the whole population of Singapore, young and old, Singaporeans and foreigners, must all be working.
It is easy to throw out numbers out of the blue and not many would have the full set of numbers in hand to dispute what is true or false. Anyway, if 60,000 foreign PMETs have lost their jobs, are they still here or gone home? Such a big number must have made its presence or absence felt. I don't feel a thing.
On the other hand, how many foreign PMETs were brought in during the last 20 years, with many converted to citizens and PRs. By the way, 60,000 foreign PMETs refers to what, locals, PRs or what? Without knowing the combination, it can be misleading when used in different situations. Are Singaporeans supposed to feel better knowing that 60,000 foreign PMETs have lost their jobs when there are still 340,000 working here, using the 400,000 number quoted by PSP? Or another 60,000 already brought in to replace them? I am just asking questions for discussion only ah, I am no asserting anything.
Then MOM is disputing the 100,000 Singaporean PMETs unemployed figure, coming out with a figure of 39,000 unemployed as at June last year. Trying to make sense or arguing with such numbers can be very tiring and misleading. The figures would only tell one part of the story at a particular time. What about those not counted, like retired after losing their jobs, or underemployed by taking up any job that came by? Using a static number like that is misleading too in many ways. No one is wiser and it is foolish to insist that one is right or wrong just by quoting a number.
What do you think?
28 comments:
20 years ago, our HDB flat goes up in value.
Now.
PAP Lawrence Wong says our HDB flat will be worth nothing.
This is enough reason to vote out the PAP bastards.
20 years ago, PAP promised us that we can take out our CPF money at 55 years old.
Now PAP say cannot take out your CPF money at 55 years old.
Do you still think we can trust the promises of any PAP politician?
Can we trust PAP's Balakrishnan?
Mr RB.
JT and Vivi were saying Seven (7) Singaporeans PMETs in the ratio of One (1) Foreign PMET.
So, 60,000 FOREIGN PMETs jobs lost multiply by 7 Singaporeans equal how many ah?
My Maths always got F9!
Also still 340,000 working here cannnot give to Singaporeans meh
Just only 100,000. They mean to say that these 340,000 are specialists that Singaporeans cannnot do meh?
Singaporeans so mismatched and out of date meh ?
Thought we are one of the World's MOST educated work force!
Study from kindergatten to Unis took nearly 20 odd years.
Only One thing Singaporeans lousy and mismatched is that they do NOT learn and forged Fake Degrees, Diplomas and Certs.
Also, don't know how to sian as good as them. This is also considered a virtue as they very honest.
Anyone can let me know what's Singapore PMETs unemployed if one Foreign PMET employed is equal to seven Singapore PMETs?
Thank you
Cheers
Absolutely disbelieve the MOM's Singaporean PMETs 39,000 unemployed figure.
The MOM cites as proof a Comprehensive Labour Force Survey which is conducted annually that shows 39,000 unemployed, in the Report on Labour Force in Singapore 2019 released in January this year.
Just ask yourself - checking with people around you who you know are unemployed, how many of them have been interviewed by this Comprehensive Labour Force Survey ?
I, for one, unemployed amongst 2.3 million foreigners allowed to work in this country, wasn't interviewed, So are my 2 unemployed brothers, my two unemployed sisters, and my several unemployed nieces and nephews after they graduated from higher institutions.
Are they missing out a huge chunk of unemployed Singaporeans just as they miss out the hundreds of thousands of dorm workers in the COVID-19 fight?
Aiyo, Correct ah!
420,000 Singaporeans unemployed ah!
That's the figure our Opposition and sometimes the PAP slip of tongue quoted.
So, the Opposition is correct ah!
Must employed 7 Singaporeans to 1 foreign employee.
I was at a coffeeshop and some old folks were having a conversation and passing negative remarks on Dr Chee after sharing a news article on him. It was Wanbao which made it a big frontpage news reporting PAP attacks CSJ for spreading misinformation. Is CSJ's question so serious to require such news treatment? This is how the MSM help PAP at every GE. They know the older folks are not into social media and depend on them for news. And blow something much ado about nothing into some major negative news on the oppos.
Perhaps the MSMs may see CJS has an even chance and I do hope he does, of getting elected after noting the performance of the incumbent.
The old people refers to Heng as "goldfish eyes".
There is a 'Trump's syndrome' in the PAP leadership. Trump is used to tell all sorts of lies as long as they benefit him and his agenda. But he is also quick to disown those lies created by him as soon as he found his lies rebounce badly on him that he has to quickly change his tune and coin new lies. Trump as a born seasoned liar does not know what is shame, honour and trustworthiness. He speaks with fork tongue as all white men do. Why does the PAP need to take after Trump's horrible characteristics?
Pro Fair Play
I trust Chee Soon Juan more than anyone in whites.
Hi Anon 9.51
This is the tactic that the PAP played every GE.
To taint the Opposition Candidates any trivial remarks that they made against them. Even they knew that's the truths the Oppo Candidates brought up.
They will slander that candidates and made him or them as scoundrels and dishonest.
Personalities like CSJ and LT are the fiery types which speaks their minds.
Sinkies are been brainwashed that the MPs must be docile, gentle and gentlemanly kind. Even in their hypocrises.
So when they're portrayed as such. They would NOT vote for them.
We need such garang MPs and Ministers to run and protect the Nation.
Especially the Oppo MPs to ask life and death issues
Not just docile and nice smiling Leaders.
TCB and P.S. and even LTK and CST knew their tactics. That's why they kept their demeanour and tempers.
Until they are elected, they will control themselves.
Dr Chee is always a target, esp during GEs by the parti against people. These people like making a mountain out of a molehill, and like a lightning strikes at you, and then follow up with a big thunder !
Beware of venom from the snakes.
Playing With Figures Same As Playing With Fire
1. "Lies, more lies, and statistics!" is a very popular guide when reading statistics. Otherwise, you will be led into believing that the statistics are projecting the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
2. Whenever politicians throw up any isolated figures, without details and elaboration, at you, the public, you must always be very weary and cautious. Never take those figures at face value.
3. Seasoned politicians are experts in deflection and deception. When they are cornered, they will try to deflect your question by asking another question or attack you for asking that question. Failing that, they will try to deceive you by using statistics that only they possess, statistics that the public is not at liberty to have. In other words, classified information in the possession of the government. In this way, you simply cannot argue with them.
4. In addition, one must also always bear in mind that statistics dont't lie but politicians do.
5. When you play with figures, they can backfire and come back to hurt you. It's the same as playing with fire.
Therefore, best is not to play with figures, whether female bodies or numbers!
SSO I disagreed with you lar on playing with figures. Female bodies are a gift to man to play lar very siok ok
@ 1:19 PM
Go and ask ex-PAP MP of Bukit Batok, what happened to his political career after playing with the body of one of his constituents' wife, who happened to be one of his GrassLoots' leaders.?
Or ask the ex-PAP Speaker of the House, of Singapore Parliament, when played with the body one of the PA's senior staff, also somebody's wife?
Aiya, Bukit Batok cough cough voters are as stupid as ox.
Ex PAP MP woman scandal also vote again their own kind
Part time MP no hiew just the MRT staff no check water pump in underground MRT station.
Bukit Batok flats kena fire, the fire hose cannnot work.
MRT underground station flooded, the water pumps cannnot work.
One side fire, cannot work and one side flooded also cannnot work.
Now news this Murali's son in jail for RAPE..
Wow victim some more. Can said I am NOT a good father.
ALREADY part time MP and still no time for family.
Yet, now they trying to bring CSJ down the drain and have him as MP again.
My GOD. If the daft Bukit Batok voters still vote him in.
Don't know what to say.
https://statestimesreview.com/2020/07/04/part-time-father-pap-mp-murali-pillais-son-in-jail-for-rape/
Hi
What will happen if in a four members GRC, one member up lorry before polling day... considered out?
Any expert?
Bukit Batok means Backside Hill or Asshole Hill.
What do you call those who stay in Asshole Hill? Naturally, meaningfully, they should be called Assholes, right?
What can anyone expect from Assholes?
Answer: They eat and think through their assholes and shit through their mouths?
Hahaha Hahahahahaha.....
Really pity on Dr Chee's 10m population but it's also shows how cunning the PAPies can be, pretend pretend then attack in droves mercilessly such is the morality of dirty unscrupulous wolverine of the PAPies, Dr Chee was being 'trick' into this trap set by the PAPies! It makes ones wander now the true figures of unemployed Sinkies here, jus watch out the OPPO Parties fall into their trap about this figure games again, can only guess or predict but we don't hv all the data & the Whites PAPies hv an upper hand on this figures games, remember Don't Fall Into this Figures Trap Again, double or triple check with facts & figures or read out the newspapers cutting but don't jump into conclusions else fall into trap again Remember Unity is Strength. OPPO Unite Be Strong & Be Safe!
The PAP number is 55 years old.
Return back your CPF money.
Did PAP keep their promise?
Why anybody will still trust and vote for PAP ... I don't know.
Dr Chee better watch out from now to polling day!
Dr Chee! Dr Chee! Dr Chee! Dr Chee! Dr Chee! Dr Chee! Dr Chee! Dr Chee!......
Rb anyway the 39000 refers to June last year its totally out of date. Certainly did not reflect the covid 19 situation. Next month when the support ended, sg should see mass firing after the election.
The opposition parties must not let the PAP set the agenda and the narrative for this GE. They must set their own agenda and call the narrative. Mao has a saying, let them fight their war, we will fight our own war. Just ignore the narrative on 10m population. This is a red herring and quite meaningless.
Just focus on attacking CECA and foreign PMETs and fake foreign talents and the return of the CPF money. No more lies, not more changing of rules, be honourable, be trustworthy, O$P$. No more lies, no more trickeries and changing the rules on CPF. Go back to the original undertaking and contract.
Do not respond or reply on the 10m population red herring. Keep a complete silence on it, let the PAP beats its own drums and makes all the noises. It takes two hands to clap. Don't offer the other hand to clap. Stay focus on the above agenda.
Right you are Mr RB.
CSJ had scored a damaging goal into the PAP goal post.
SDP just moved on..Let the masses of Singaporeans kept wondering this issue.
Troubled their mind.
If the PAP kept defending and accusing SDP on this issue, then it shown that it is troubling them as the Truth and further score another own goal into their net.
The Singaporeans will realised that it is the Truth that they are planning for this figure or agenda.
Cheers
They can said 39,000 or 3900, you believe them?
So many things kept secret and cannnot disclose ALREADY said that you cannnot believe them
PooFma but just said it's untrue and won't dare to show proof.
TCB said you can trick one time but NOT too many times.
U eat too full is it? Go curse people for what? U wanted to get sodomized is it?
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