Goh Meng Seng wrote a piece titled ‘The greatest fake news is from the
PAP’ in the TRE to belabour the point that the value of HDB flat will
come to zero as the lease expires. This is the stark reality facing many
HDB flat owners. The dream of retiring rich, with a big nest egg is
going to turn into a nightmare for some. The mirage of asset enhancement
has yet to hit many and many are still hoping that it would not hit
them.
Hold on to your HDB flats, the value will only go up. Many took
this advice, some out of no choice. Those whose flats are hitting the 50
year lease are finding it difficult to sell them in the market. There
is no buyer except for those due for en bloc scheme.
As each day or year passes by, the more difficult it will be to sell
these flats. They could only sit helplessly watching the value of their
flats disappearing into thin air. The millions they thought they owned
are simply a make belief. For those who are still holding onto their
million dollar flats and with the lease nearing 50 years, either they
sell quickly or seeing the asset value vanishing. Who would be buying a
depreciating asset that is falling in price unless the offer price is
like fire sale?
This state of affair is going to be more real with each passing year and
many would be wise to let go of their HDB flats fast, if they could,
and still could find a place to stay. Otherwise, it would be just a case
of cannot do anything and staring at the value going to zero. Would
there be a mad rush to sell, would there be panic selling?
The other option to fall back on is the buy back scheme, provided the
value is holding. Remember, it would be based on market price. The
earlier one opts in the better. Who knows, when they is a flood of
people wanting to cash in on this scheme, there may not be enough cash
for them and the scheme would quickly be tweaked.
The story of HDB millionaires turning into ‘million airs’ is still
unfolding and will gather steam in another two or three decades and
going forward. There are more than a million HDB millionaires in the
queue to be ‘million airs’.
Below are some of the comments in Goh Meng Seng’s article.
“The biggest, greatest Falsehood that was cooked up by PAP Government is
the Asset Enhancement Scheme and HDB for retirement financing....
They have messed up the HDB system so badly that there is no way of
reversing the bad scam without causing Huge pain to a few generations of
Singaporeans. In the end, Singaporeans were told that not all of their
HDB will enjoy enbloc. In fact, the majority (96%) will have the values
of their HDB flats turn to zero value when their lease is up. Did they
tell Singaporeans about this critical information back in 1990s when
they keep harping on Asset Enhancement Scheme? A half-truth is selective
falsehood....”
49 comments:
Knn, lucky I was aware so all the properties that I bought along the years were all freehold including the one that I am staying in right now. But now other than old properties, all new properties including those sold by private Developers even if the land is freehold are sold based on 99 years leasehold. So Knn, I worry for my kids
to borrow papies silent slogan - " u die is ur own bziness, don't ever cone here to ask for monies, u spineless dafts & ur told to be self reliance mah"
One hua aunty said in parliemen "..kim shua goon shua long hor yee eng liao liao la"
Lau Goh bought freehold, enhanced your purchase price of leasehold...good, foolish, cunning or bad? You voted for it.
As one NincoMpooh aunty also said in parliemen b4 that CeePeeFxxx isn't your monies ..therefore HDeeBee flats also not yours mah, so u kpkb also no useless, the last time KJ already said u got the gobblemen u deserves mah, not unless these 69.9% dafts Sinkies wakes up if not it's useless, next time even air also costs millions of dollars.
Not to worry lah, PAP will bring in more foreigners, convert them to PRs and citizens, and then they can buy those 40 year HDB properties.
Now only 5.6 million people what, target is 10 million, right?
So PAP can still bring in a few million more from the whole, wide world to make it to 10 million.
So what's the problem, u tell me lah?
Imagine those suckers who paid over 1 million to buy a 30 years old unit at Bishan. Now only option is to stay there till end of lease as its too painful to suffer the loss plus too expensive to switch to another new one
With one stroke of the pen, the PAP govt can easily extend the lease of all the HDB flats by, say, another 50 years. Then the dilemma facing all flat owners will be solved, all will be okay. But of course, with that maybe a fee on the extended lease payable to govt on sale of the flat.
@ RB, quoting GMS:
>> The biggest, greatest Falsehood that was cooked up by PAP Government is the Asset Enhancement Scheme and HDB for retirement financing...<<
The greatest mass delusion of the "no-personal-responsibility-tolong-tolong" Singpore Sheeple is that for decades, they believed the government. (all governments cannot be trusted to "look after" you).
Surprise, surprise...Australia has adopted an HDB-inspired scheme, where due to the high prices of housing, the government will "co-own" your house. You but down 5%, the government covers the rest in a "Shared Equity" scheme. The government then owns 25% of your home. The negative externalities of such a hair-brained idea are numerous. The dying real estate market is now artificially "supported" by taxpayer money, causing prices to be higher than they should in a depressed market.
Greedy landlords like myself will take a haircut in their rental income because now "Why rent? The govt (taxpayer) will cover 95% of the cost of purchase".
Greedy landlords fed-up with the loss of rent will probably unload some of their holdings, getting a nice artificially higher price in the depressed market thanks to...the taxpayer! 😂.
Household debt is likely to increase and sovereign debt...well you get the picture. The bond market is already wonky, and consumer debt levels are staggering---Australian individuals are #1; the heaviest debtors in the world...and no one seems to care.
Back to Singapore: The HDB + CPF + Political Monopoly system was designed to achieve many things, and it has worked MARVELOUSLY. It's Communism, with just the right amount of free-market, to construct an ILLUSION of individual economic "success" and "security". From the very beginning, it was designed TO FAIL. CPF was never yours. In recent times, reality bit really hard. HDB was never yours; it's a lease from the State. Reality bites again.
"Asset enhancement" is pure bullshit. Firstly, personal housing is not an asset---it is CONSUMPTION. An asset earns you MONEY. You use your home to meet a particular, fundamental human need: shelter. Just as food is a fundamental human need. When you buy a plate of char kway teow, or Kotex for your menstrual period, how the fuck are they assets? It's consumption lah.
Secondly, HDBs are leased, with terms and conditions not in your favour. These terms and conditions are subject to change, whether you like it or not.
Here's what is likely to happen: The PAP will move to a more "free market" in public housing or they will just let the leases expire and sorry for you if you get caught out.
Remember, that even if you sell your HDB, you have to "pay back" your CPF for whatever money you took out to buy. Again, you're playing against a stacked deck, imprisoned in the casino the government owns. 🤣 Sheep get slaughtered and turned into mutton. Sheeple too.🐑 ⽺ 🔪
This is something the potential 'million airs' can hope for. But there is another caveat. Can the structure of HDB flats continue to stand after 99 years? This has not been tested yet.
Redbean is right...a buy-back scheme (like Australia, which was copied from the HDB) could be. But...since you are negotiating from a point of weakness, the govt will probably set the "market price", and whatever you "owe" to your CPF, you will have to pay back, leaving you with a sore and bleeding anus which at an advanced age it's doubtful whether you can recover financial loss.
Public housing should never be used like private condos in the "free" market. At the height of the boom, peoples HDBs were increasing thousands of dollars a month, making people "millionaires", and changing their characters to become fucking assholes. No one was complaining then, except for the poor young couples who couldn't afford to buy, and had to pay expensive rent, or continue living at home. All this and more, because the HDB went from PUBLIC HOUSING, to some weird, impossible-to-define "derivative".
Despite these impending storm clouds of doom and gloom, The PAP will win the next GE.
Why?
Redbean left out one idea which is already in law: FILIAL PIETY. You will be , under "improved laws", personally responsible for housing your aging parents if they are left destitute due to their (and your) gullibility in Entitled Sheeple Mindset.
Once again, you lose. PAP win. 🤣🤮 ⚰️⚱️死命 死命 死命 死命 (one thousand generations!)
@ 1016
>> maybe a fee on the extended lease payable to govt on sale of the flat. <<
Most definitely. They will do some fancy legwork with the accounting. Since it is a "new lease", they will expect you to pay up. If you are old and not earning, your family will be saddled with the responsibility to pay or take out a loan (from HDB) under Filial Piety laws.
Filial piety legislation will likely be "beefed-up". Rule of Law lah. No escape.
those staying in freehold property do not be happy
some years ago Simon told me that with a stroke of a pen, the freehold property can become leasehold by the govt of the day
can it be?
"Never let a crisis go to waste". Every savvy political operator knows this...from the office politics maven whose amorality boosts their chances of climbing the corporate ladder, to leaders of a State motivated to increase their power.
It is all too easy to "weaponize" bad law. Filial Piety laws are such laws.
What's the bet that Weaponized Filial Piety Laws are going to be a new, effective POLITICAL tool for the govt (any govt)?
It has the potential to sew brutal discord in families---literally tearing them apart and causing people to take sides against each other. Nothing is more tragic than a family at war with itself.
Those in favour of filial piety laws (the oldies) will be the "supporters" during the GE. Those who are going to be getting old soon and fear for their economic safety, will likely vote accordingly. The younger fucks are going to be stuck with paying all the bills. No problem mate...they can work and work to pay and pay! 😂
Sheeple get slaughtered! 死命!
@ RB: The PAP has a track record of passing legislation which is untested. Float a balloon lah...see how? 😛
@ 1031:
>> some years ago Simon told me that with a stroke of a pen, the freehold property can become leasehold by the govt of the day
can it be? <<
Yes. Under what is commonly known as "Eminent Domain Laws". They used those sets of laws to seize the kampungs etc. for "Nation Building". Under nation building doctrine, The State can essentially do anything.
Complain so much for fuck?!?!?!
You ALL voted for it & deserve it!!! LOL!!!!
Hope S'pore property all collapse!!! Hahahaha!!!!
@ Fucked Forever Fortune:
Please lah, there have been no competent opposition presented to Singaporeans. If there were such "unicorns" (mythical figures), money-chasing Singaporeans would have voted for them already.
The PAP "benevolent dictatorship" even with its faults, is the best choice, in CONCORDANCE with Singapore's conservative culture, who looks to "authority". The PAP understand the hearts and minds of Singaporeans...something the opposition just can't seem to nail.
Politics is DOWNSTREAM from Culture. If you try and bring fancy ideas from liberal and social democracies of other cuntries, they simply won't fly with the voting MAJORITY because most of those ideas are AGAINST the weave of Singapore culture.
Regardless on whether the political system is manipulated for elections, it is the MAJORITY vote which gives the mandate for the govt to do what it does. The average Singaporean wants "authority". That is why sodomy and death penalty laws are still on the books. The average Singaporean doesn't want their kids to be "corrupted by gays", nor do they want their kids to be "murdered" by drugs trafficked by criminals.
The could care less about "silly western ideas" like freedom of expression and speech. When Amos pulled his stunts, it was Singaporeans who made Police Report---not the govt. Amos was assaulted in public, and social media by members of the public....not the govt.
Singaporeans generally don't buy into "martyr parlour tricks", like JBJ going bankrupt or CSJ pulling his Mandella-Ghandi-Martin-Luther-King BULLSHIT, like going on hunger strikes. Singaporeans simply don't process such "sacrifices", they tend to think "Siao kow lah!"...such an individual is truly insane to pull such stunts.
The PAP understand the ground. That's why despite the moaning and groaning, and dissatisfaction with the high govt salaries, they vote PAP all the time.
For some explanations on why, here's a great resource:
Pay attention to episodes on "Learned Helplessness", "The Backfire Effect", "Confabulation", "Tribal Psychology", "Belief Change Blindness" and "The Staus Quo Rationalization". Hopefully, you'll get a better understanding on how easy it is to "weaponise" these scientifically discovered ideas in psychology and neuroscience, to manipulate people with great effect.
>> YOU ARE FUCKED FOREVER! <<
Not necessarily.
>> What are you going do? <<
My 2-cents suggestions: educate yourself, then work on changing yourself. When you have embarked on this "new path", act in your own best interests.
Remember, no con or scam can work on you if you don't become COMPLICIT in the mechanism in play.
Good luck!
Addendum:
Here's the great resource , corrected link
The PAP "benevolent dictatorship" even with its faults, is the best choice, in CONCORDANCE with Singapore's conservative culture, who looks to "authority". The PAP understand the hearts and minds of Singaporeans...something the opposition just can't seem to nail. Matilah
Just wait for the time when the goodness or benevolent dictatorship becomes so evil that anything will do to get rid of them. The consultation on fake news is a case in point. The robbing of the people's CPF is another.
When these 'goodnesses' become unbearable, the people will vote for anything for a change.
" the people will vote for anything for a change" - RB
Yup, make us so dulan we would vote even for a four-legged candidate for change !
@ RB
I'll have to disagree with you on that. The PAP is very clever...they don't push people over the brink. Those who do go over the brink are not big enough in numbers, nor do they have the will to do so.
Granted, some will, most won't. See the podcasts mentioned previously, notably : Belief Change Blindness, and Status Quo Rationalization.
Scientific findings are based on probability. In human behaviour, we are all different, but at the fundamental level, there are more similarities than differences, as we all share the same biology. Psychological and behaviourial studies give results pertaining to a sample set of humans. On the individual basis, there could be more variance.
Also, it is unlikely the politics will change until there's a fundamental change in the culture.
On the CPF thing: the rallies at Hong Lim were total failures. The majority just don't care, mainly because the insurance industries are doing fine in Singapore, as many Singaporeans already realise that the CPF is "nonsense", so these kiasus buy insurance policies.
So here's how the "trade" looks like: You go "long" on the PAP by voting for them. However to protect yourself against the downside, you might resort to a few "hedging strategies"
1. Get PR in another cuntry
2. Buy property overseas
3. Buy private insurance (to hedge failure of social programs---e.g. CPF, Medisave
4. Birth your kids overseas, and educate them until high school. Then repatriate them to Singapore to "beef up" their edu in Singapore Pre U. The males are not citizens, they don't have to do NS.
...and so on, depending on how far they want to take it, and how much they're willing to spend.
On "weaponized" laws. A couple of examples:
1. ISA --- an effective weaponised set of laws used effectively for political gain
2. Public nuisance acts
3. Laws pertaining to slander and libel
4. Public entertainment license act (CSJ kena)
5. Sedition and treason laws
...etc.etc
So it's not unreasonable to assume they'll use filial piety laws in similar ways.
PAP is too000000oooooo BIG to fail!
Unless there is an internal split between the military politicians and the non military politicians.
The people will continue/die-die vote for PAP.
Come next GE, PAP will get 79.9% votes and capturing ALL seats!
Possible?/Impossible?
This is Singapore! Singaporelangs are like that lah!
We shall see.
Hahaha.................
No wonder Every SinkiapoorLang the foreigners will whack them darok darok but can still get away with it. The Sinkies deserves it Lah, stupidity has no cure.
YOU ARE ALL FUCKED FOREVER UNLESS YOU ARE LIKE MATILAH!
Learn from him. Exploit the System.
But first of all, you need to know the System at the back of your hands.
Second, you need to GET INTO the SYSTEM.
Can you do it?
Mostly agree with MS.
The only thing I don't agree is bring back your foreign-born kids to S'pore for A-levels ?!?!?! Firstly, they'll die in the good JCs ... 2ndly after high school they can immediately go into the foreign Uni (remember your kids are foreign-born, at least PR or citizen, i.e. free or almost free foreign education) ... 3rdly having zero S'pore education doesn't stop foreign graduates (especially those from developed angmoh countries) from being seen & treated as talents here in S'pore with good jobs & high pay.
Learned helplessness, status quo bias, loss aversion, cultural/societal norms are very powerful ingrained attributes. Need very strong socio-economic changes plus 1 or 2 generations to make meaningful changes.
If economy (even with 1 or 2 recessions in the next 10 years) and general society are humming along, won't have any change.
PAPies are experts at mass psychology ... they have & will kill individuals ... but they know how to tekan & manjah large groups so that the masses will go along.
Any change/disruption will be slow e.g. loss of Aljuneid GRC & Punggol East SMC in 2011-2012. It wasn't a fatal blow, but a good signal to PAPies to modify some policies.
How? By using a little bit of the people's money (i.e. our reserves & taxes & govt budget) to increase a bit more welfare for the oldies & sickies. Close the foreigner floodgates a little bit. You don't know but we have the biggest median salary increases in the last 5 years. More sinkies are now staying in condos/landed than ever, from 15% to 20%. Today HDB households form 80%, down from 85% 10 years ago. More sinkies are driving cars today than 10 years ago .... >40% own cars.
The median household salary is $10K ... that's $120,000 per year ... YA, 50% of Sinkie households are earning equal or MORE THAN THAT.
More & more Gen X and early-Gen Y have earned/saved/invested enough to RETIRE COMFORTABLY BY 40 ... Some even retired comfortably at 35. WHO NEEDS CPF?!?! LOL!!!!
As a result, MAJORITY of sinkies are now quite OK with PAPies ... hence the retaking of Punggol East SMC & Potong Pasir by PAPies, and the barely hairline win by Oppo in Aljuneid. (Aljuneid will have 98% chance of loss to PAPies in the next GE)
Singaporeans are so lucky. After graduation from the universities and after 2 or 3 years work, they can sign on for a subsidised HDB apartment, ie if they are engaged to be married or already married. In many other places, young people have to work many years before they can start thinking of owning a place of their own. Singaporeans have had it good for so many years. Thanks to the PAP.
Knn very depressed and after reading what 4.49 anon asshole posting lagi depressed
Fresh grads with PROPER degrees from NUS/NTU/SMU are able to get starting salaries of $3.5K easily.
By the time these couples decide to get hitched & apply for flat, their combined salaries are usually above $9K. Many of those I know (in early 30s) exceed $12K and are forced to apply for EC or pure condo or buy resale.
With 1st timer & near-parent subsidies, these graduates barely feel any pain if they apply for normal BTO.
Those complaining are usually non-grads or lousy degrees with plenty of C & D grades. Not surprising if they can't secure good pay jobs or even contract jobs.
The problem with S'pore is that we are high-end expensive metropolis ---- there's no hinterland countryside with small towns and cheap cost of living for less capable people to live.
This is why LKY all along wanted S'pore to be part of larger Malayan peninsula as 1 legal country entity that allows free flow of people, goods & services.
Ever wonder why they suddenly stopped using the upgrading and asset enhancement line to buy votes when it was working like a charm? I think they know that this will be a time bomb and continuing to propagate the idea that upgrading or enhancement will add value to your HDB flat is going to be the mother of all lies.
Many who think they could cash in their flats in old age, would not have thought it was going to be following a PAP empty slogan, telling them that enhancements will add value to their flats when they sell it. Perhaps they thought using the lease buyback scheme would solve part of the problem. But it turns out that not many opt for this scheme because if you do not have the minimum sum in your CPF, a large chunk of the sales proceeds will end up being held to ransom.
Private condo owners who bought 99 year lease do not have this problem because they can buy and sell as many times as they like, but not HDB owners, unless they buy resale which does not make sense if the flat is older than 60 years or close to that.
The Government thinks the problem can partly be solved if the majority who sell their HDB buys into private housing, which is why private condos are springing up like mushrooms all over the island. Is this the agenda of the Government to push HDB upgraders to private housing thus solving part of the time bomb problem?
@ everyone:
I say again, and again...I'm not here to "convert" anyone, so lease don't learn from me!
All I do is put my ideas down here...like a form of "interactive notebook"...where I get to bounce my ideas, have people disagree with me (I love that, BTW), and get their ideas, bounce them back with my thoughts...usually adding a few of my signature "dirt and filth".
As for "exploiting the system", please lah...do you really think I'm the only one doing so? And do you think "exploiting the system" is cost-free...because I can tell you, it is definitely not. Be prepared to pay big prices, and tahan some discomfort, even a little suffering.
Also, the "strategies" I mentioned, are not "gospel". They're just examples I thought up in the moment, and yes, I've done a couple, and it's cost me a lot of money over the years.
FREEDOM isn't and can never be "Free"
@matilah
Probably u r just spreading spate of infos la, others may jus treat it as rubbish, or idiotic ideas or whatever us their bziness as long as u r happy & shiok shiok opined wat an matilah mati u don't care that it , tiok boh?
@ 429 & 651:
Yes, although many people hate hearing it, "open economy" Singapore is a very competitive meritocracy, and there is a lot of LOCAL private wealth around, and the society has enjoyed decades of stunning upward mobility (aka people increasing their real wealth).
Look at the facts, instead of clinging too much to your negative emotions. Singapore is filled with high achievers who, like their HK cousins, are wealthier than many of the "upper middle class" in high-taxed 1st world western-style democracies.
[Notes: Japan is a western-style post WW2 democracy. It's constitution was essentially written by the Americans. South Korea's constitution is influenced by the Americans, as is post federation Australia's which the Americans assisted in also.
Singapore---more British based. Westminster style republican parliament. Singapore's parliament is based on the representative-democratic model.
It is not a direct democracy like Switzerland. In Singapore, the people don't vote on policy, the Swiss do---their vote goes directly to the issues at hand.
In Singapore you vote for a representative allocated by electoral districts. The entire govt is representative...the so-called "will of the people" is to give the govt of the day a MANDATE to govern, which means when they craft policy you don't like, too bad. It is 100% LEGAL. Everything the Singapore govt does is 100% LEGAL...to a fault. Remember that when some nut tries to tell you otherwise at Hong Lim. :-) ]
@815:
Might I suggest you take a course in remedial English comprehension?
I say again, this is an "interactive notebook" for me.
Tiok boh?
Third, you need to have an "Exit Plan", which should have at least two Alternatives. Three would be better.
What is this Exit Plan? It means you cannot use Singapore as your Retirement Country. You have to find a cheap and freer country which is safe enough for old people.
If you are Chinese, your first choice should be China, Taiwan or Hongkong.
If you are Indian, your first choice should be India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan or Bangladesh.
If you are Malay, your first choice should be Malaysia, Indonesia (Batam or Bintan), Southern Thailand or Brunei.
If you are Eurasian, your first choice should be Australia, New Zealand or any of the 43 Commonwealth countries, including UK. (Personally, I prefer South Ireland because cost of living and housing are cheaper and more free to do business. Since it is independent from England, it is part of EU. Therefore, you have access to both UK and EU markets, plus other benefits.
You second and third choice is up to your own and your family's liking.
The Exit Plan must be executed as early as possible, within your means (financial and contacts).
Then, once you have exited Singapore, you have one foot on the ground (overseas) and one foot in Singapore (do not renounce citizenship). Like that, you stay overseas and treat Singapore as your Hotel. You come and go as you please.
You can have the BEST OF BOTH WORLDS! This is what Goh Chok Tong's daughter, Lee Hsien Yang and many others are doing.
Start cracking. The earlier the better. You need to save up or expand your sources of income.
If there is a WILL, there is a way. All the best. GOOD LUCK!
HAVE YOU BEEN SHORT-CHANGED ALL THESE YEARS?
The following is the transcript recorded by icompareloan.com during Q&A when Dr Cheong advised people to pay the price of HDB flat that "should commensurate with the lease", that is, paying the price depending on how long a period the HDB lease would have left:
Dr Cheong: The leasehold question…let me see what was exactly asked.
Prof Chan: The right forum…the people are feeling anxious
Dr Cheong: Understandably…Let me put it in context, in the light of the lecture, I expect you to ask a question like that, when I talk about leasehold. I want everyone to understand Singapore’s limitations. My interest as an architect planner is to bring Singapore into the future right? Singapore SG100…SG200. Given that you are small place, how do you ensure that we have facilities and housing for children, our grandchildren going into the future?
So, in a way the leasehold enables us to recover the land loan…so that is the over-arching umbrella that we are thinking about. Now next step, HDB flats are sold at 99 years lease. In fact, HDB flats you get the full 99 years lease, unlike private developers. Did you better know that? If you don’t know you better check.
99 years is meant for a home. And is enough for 2 generations. It lasts you for 2 generations. It’s a long time. And for most people by the time you live in it – after one generation – in fact they can monetise the home. And there are many ways to monetise today right?
You can sell the larger flat and buy a smaller flat. I build a lot of smaller flats, which a lot of my elderly love. Because now they don’t have to maintain such a big home. And with the money, it goes back to CPF…and you buy CPF life. So there are many ways to monetise.
So, if they want to stay in their own home, they can do a lease buy back. I buy back some of the leases. And then they make sure you keep the leases that will last you the lifetime. The length of your life.
Another way of monetisation is people rent out rooms in their homes. And there are people who actually sell off and go and live with their children. Ok some of you may not want to live with your children, you can buy another smaller flat. So there are any ways of monetising within the period of the 99 years.
And you must remember that actually their children will go on to buy an affordable flat from me. Correct? Now how do you make sure they can buy back an affordable flat from me? Eventually you have to recycle the land. You understand? So, I am trying to paint that broader picture. And there are actually quite a lot of ways to continue to monetise. 99 years is a long time.
Prof Chan: Can I just ask a tag-on question. How many homeowners live in the same flats throughout their lives? Because surely they would have sold it to somebody else, made some money. Or, bought another apartment. Next person who buys a shorter lease will pay much less money. So it is not like they lose the money….(murmur from the crowd?)…They still pay a lot of money is it?…Now I am stirring the pot.
Dr Cheong: There is a mixture. There are a lot who live in their own flats and there are a lot who monetise it. You see Singaporeans move house a lot you know. compared to people in overseas cities. I don’t have the statistics here, but I think quite a lot of people do sell and move on to something else.
So the point really is about making prudent choice. Prudent choice is very important. You should buy a flat, as you say it commensurate with the lease. The price you pay should commensurate with the lease. As you should buy a flat that would last you a lifetime. So, these are prudent choices that you probably need to make sure that you are making.
Apparently, Dr Cheong must have been living in her Ivory Tower for too long?
//..I say again, this is an "interactive notebook" for me.//
Alamak Matilah...u still using notebook? If u come to this island, u probably get mobile phone even poor also get subsidised ones.
//..Might I suggest you take a course in remedial English comprehension?//
Hello, r u saying ur English is GCeeEe O or A level distinction?
Knn that is all I can say.
"Knn that is all I can say"
Knn or cnn, is that all?
There are lots of assumptions & misguided thoughts about HDB prices & trend. The past experiences will be difficult to replicate. The oldest HDB flats are about 60 years old.
With a booming economy from 1960 to 2010, and the 1st 50 years of the HDB lease, the major trend experience was rising HDB prices especially when the key landlord has a view to up prices as "asset enhancement".
HDB older flat prices will steadily trend lower until zero at expiration. This is simple math and the new trend.
Will new HDB flat prices appreciate?
If you have average GDP growth of 7% per annum, then Yes.
However with already a matured economy, the past 10 years of trepid growth under LHL leadership is instructional. With a significantly higher purchase price relative to income now compared to 40 years ago. The probability of new HDB prices appreciating is low as a trend. This is compounded by the fact that new flats are almost exclusively not fringe of the island & hence the chance of en-bloc to resettle out is non-existent.
correction:....exclusively at fringe of the island...
With little chance of en-bloc, older flats with older residents stand little chance of having their flats appreciate in value, even with all the upgrading and asset enhancement features, hence the end of their golden dream of cashing in when they retire.
Further more, older residents probably have already bought their second flat from the HDB, so, moving out into another new flat is out of the question. Neither is it sensible to buy a resale HDB unit that is a few decades old and close to having only 60 years left of the lease.
The time bomb is indeed ticking. The elites who told us about asset enhancement to add value to our flats will have to 'run road' and become quitters themselves.
@ Fortune:
OK, I'm going to flatly disagree with you. You are basing your arguments on the "planning to be poor" model of retirement. In this model, you'll always be negotiating from a position of weakness, and the older you live to be, the more exploitable you'll become, and the less enjoyable your life will probably be. Depression is a very real affliction in old age. By "planning to be poor", you are almost certainly going to end up depressed...which is a "risk factor" in several types of dementia.
Here's my controversial, and uncomfortable opinion: the best place to retire is the cuntry which has the most wealth. If you can afford it, don't be silly---retire in Singapore, or the US or places like Norway and Denmark, Switzerland. You'll have access to the very best medical care, for instance. The benefits are numerous. Security, safety, lifestyle.
Singapore is one cuntry where you can accumulate wealth, grow and preserve it with very little tax implications (lowest in the world lah). Plus it is secure and safe, and being local, you are familiar with the culture (at least you should be)---aware of the "blindspots" and positioned to make decent money, which you will steward wisely and not fall prey to your ego.
Sure, buy a beach condo in Florida or Italy, Spain or Greece, Croatia, Hungary, Chiang Mai, The Gold Coast...wherever...and live there as your muse dictates. But plant your feet firmly in a place where your assets are safe, secure and generating low tax passive income. Avoid the developing world. When (not if, but WHEN) you get sick, would you rather have a 1st world doctor tend to you, or take your chances in China..or Malaysia? Think carefully...
People flock to Singapore for medical treatment. Bloody dictators like Mugabe choose Singapore's medical system. Why didn't they fuck off to China? Castro was treated by doctors from the western world. He didn't call up Najib and request the "expertise" of some half-arsed Bumiputra "bomoh" with a medical degree.
If you are so devoid of personal responsibility and look to govt to look after you, you stand the risk of ending up selling tissue at MRT stations, and it will be your own fault. You have about 40-50+ years after leaving the education system, to get your shit together...that's a long fucking time. If you spend that time playing "keep up with the Jones, no problem lah, I have CPF" then you are going to get a rude awakening.
@ 1014:
>> The elites who told us about asset enhancement to add value to our flats will have to 'run road' and become quitters themselves. <<
You believed them. You kept on voting for them, and then charging them with the "responsibility" to look after you... instead of minding your own business, and only your own business.
The asset enhancement program was a very cruel stunt which prevented many young couples from starting their lives and families, and when they did were put under immense pressure to pay back heavy debt.
The HDB owners were "happy" that their homes (actually leased, not owned) were appreciating not giving A SINGLE FUCK to the struggling youngsters.
So excuse me if I don't have any sympathy for those assholes who conned themselves into believing their govt., became "paper millionaires" from their publically-subsidised homes, at the expense of the next generations' emotional and economic security.
You die, your business, and my entertainment! 🤡
Your not my brother.
I say "tan ku ku" or wait long long !!
Any housing experts (non-govt officials) to advice Sinkapooreans whether to buy (actually it is leasing)or rent a HDB flat to prevent the flat to become valueless in future. Give us the pros and cons. Thanks for helping SG citizens hoping to get their flats.
@ FL
CASH FLOW. Always cash flow. What does the cash flow look like?
Before the sg.gov & HDB changed the rules, it was possible to pay (relative) peanuts for (say for e.g.) a nice high floor big HDB in Marine Parade whilst building a nice "small" portfolio of income-generating PRIVATE REAL ESTATE. I know a few people who did this 😉
One lady (no names here!) lived in an older, bigger HDB and over the years got to own an assortment of around 5 condos and landed property whilst still living in her HDB. The rental income paid off the mortgages, PLUS gave her (over time) a tidy income stream...all whilst still living in her "cheaper" HDB.
If you are a blur-like-sotong asshole in Singapore, who cannot do basic arithmetic to figure out how you can PROFIT from the "free kicks" the sg.gov occasionally gives you then you don't deserve the financial freedom/ success of your fellow, more diligent and action-oriented fellow citizens.
According to a rent Forbes article: Singapore is the easiest and fastest cuntry in the world today to become a MILLIONAIRE. If you aren't at least TRYING, you are a bloody fool and deserved to be left behind. 😂
Singapore is not a "perfect cuntry", but there are opportunities which you won't find anywhere else in the world, or even in world history. People are so concerned with the minutiae---like SMRT breaking down, riots in Serangoon Road, PRC citizens shitting in public, young maids fucking their "Sirs"...or the teenage boys...all fucking nonsense, that they distract themselves from The Game which many Singaporeans play. The "how to make money" game.
Choose your game lah. 😎
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