Do not be envious of the guy owning a million dollar HDB flat. You could
be richer than that guy even if you are living in a $300k HDB flat. The
real value of the flat is not what it is quoted. It is the real market
value and the market value of HDB flat is what the market is willing to
pay for it. After 50 years, the real value would take a plunge and the
dive will get steeper with each passing year.
Why is the guy owning a $300k HDB flat richer than the guy in a $1m HDB
flat? The value is time, the number of years left in the lease. As an
example, the $300k flat could have a 90 year lease left but the $1m flat
could be left with 50 years. So in 50 years time the guy will consume
all the remainder of the lease and be left with nothing. The $300k guy
would still have 40 years of lease or value.
In the Singapore context, many would be left eating up the remaining
lease if they are not able to sell off the flat in time. For those who
bought direct from HDB, they are luckier as they would not outlive their
lease. For those who bought in the open market, resale, especially the
younger buyers and buying flats with shorter leases, they could outlive
the lease and ended up surrendering their zero value flat before they
mati, and become homeless.
Remember, the value of your flat is measured mainly in time, the
remaining lease available and the market value will fall drastically as
the lease nears its expiry.
Be warned when you are considering a resale flat. Watch the years left
in the lease. You could buy yourself a time bomb that would blow up in
your face before you realise your folly.
The fake balloon of an ever appreciating HDB flat is about to be
pricked. Conned? No, you choose to believe the con man. It is your fault
for not thinking. In the game of musical chair, don’t be the one
holding the can when the music stops.
Would someone in Parliament one day blurb out that the HDB is not yours
just like your CPF money is not yours, but a longer rental, like the
cars with a longer COE.
36 comments:
to fight that the HDeeBee flats r urs is a lost cause unless u can vto the current ruling party. A Dr Cheong also said few days ago that ur flat value would decline in accordance to the remaining lease & eventually become zero value when the lease is up. All that Promises Again Promises r are hoax to brainwash the masses into believing that ur flat can appreciate according to time but the reverse is true now, the 69.9% dafts Sinkies can only blames themselves for they got wat they deserve & can't kpkb as KJ told them already.
While in the past it was true as population increases and unit in short supply. The unit increases in value even though the leases shortened. I know of people selling units with big profit with shorter leases and migrated. Not so in the current situation whereby the leases are left with 60 to 70 years as u need a sucker to take the unit off from u. If the sucker lived there for 30 years it mean the leases would have dropped to 30 years and unless selling based on rental yield value, it will not be possible to find a buyer. Example assuming u can rent out your unit at $1,000 per month, a 30 years unexpired lease would fetch $1000x12x30 or 360,000. So if you have paid $500,000 for your unit, you would lose money and unable to preserve its value not forgetting that the 360 k is worth much less with inflation.😰😭😰
Just out of interest, has there been an instance where HDB flats have expired their 99 years lease? I believe none so far. So what uncle RB has written is just guesswork. When the day comes when the first HDB flat expires its 99 year lease, the PAP government could easily extend the lease for another 30 or 40 years. What say yo RB??? Please do not be so negative,
Faster sell your flats and switch to freehold or 999-year properties! Grab before too late as supply very very limited!
914 of course no such case yet becos oldest hdb was built 50 yrs ago. But 99 yrs lease is 99 yrs lease; it is rock solid fact. It will go to zero when the lease expired. Options at maturity have zero time value. Dont stay in the dreamland of to hope for bailout like en bloc...almost zero chance for such a mass product esp with a govt so "guai liu".
Ya,ya, they will extend your lease for sure.
But, do you have the monies to pay another flexi lease??
Most retirees living from hand to mouths.
Best keng following the shrew pioneers selling when there is still a value.
Down grade to studio or now flexi lease flat. Best option sell at Sin $$$ and rent or buy one cheap cheap apartment in Matland.
Balance Sin $$$$ for Genting and six square meals.
There is always the possibility of Selective En-bloc Redevelopment Scheme. In fact, I think SERS was introduced to "solve" this political hot potato. It is really buying more time - kicking the can down the road.
Another point. Why don't anyone point out the obvious? That private 99-year properties also face this same problem. And these owners pay even higher prices.
The lease may be extended another 30 years? Sure or not? Go and read the transcript of the Q&A given by HDB's Chief Planner first.
Secondly, most important point, can the HDB flats physically last 99 years?
Looking at the length of time old HDB flats are being repossessed en bloc to make room for redevelopment, i.e. around 30 to 35years, it indicates to us that the HDB flats may last at the most around 60 to 70 years without safety problems.
That could probably be one key reason why the LeasevBuy-Back scheme was introduced?
Think hard now. Dont leave things to chance, at the whims and fancies of the Power-Broker, who has no qualms to increase taxes, increase prices, passing new laws and hold you ransom to continue to vote for the wolves in white sheep skin.
Virgi49: //Balance Sin $$$$ for Genting and six square meals.//
Uncle, u are rt.
Make more sense to retire for 200 days in cheaper Malacca and another 150 days in even cheaper Balai or Karimun. Balance just in transit or lay over in 5 star or 6 star airports in Hotel Red Dot or at most $49 Hotel Nice Smell for a few nites
Better to live like a king in Malacca than worse than pauper in the world's most expensive city
Established cities apartments are priced by the rental yields. For leasehold properties with short tenure that will be the key pricing mechanism. Not a speculation vehicle for capital gains anymore. No more premium. Good example is to look at the short term office n "industrial" office sites...almost all are low priced based on rental yields. Buyers are buying just for usage. Housing is consumption not asset enhancement unless it is prime freehold landed properties.
Just like the 10 years COE for car, the 99 year lease for HDB flats can also be extended. Why not? the question is the cost of this new lease.
Go Ipoh, Penang, Malacca, rent or buy. Every month take bus/flight to Hatyai or Bangkok to extend your stay in Malaysia. Always cheap and good there.
Comparing a HDB flat ti a car is like comparing apples with oranges.
A car after 10 years is still in a very good condition. Everyone knows. In fact, to scrape a car at 10 years old is not only stupidly wasteful but also mortally sinful.
Moreover, if a car has safety problems, you can send to a workshop for repairs or replacement of faulty parts. The send for inspection for safety.
A HDB flat after 99 years, nobody can be sure how the safety conditions will be. Not even all the architects and civil engineers in the world can guarantee you that.
Even if you want to repair it, you still have to get HDB's consent. And if the structural foundation is weakened, after prolonged usage, you can't even repair. You have to demolish the whole building and built a new one frim scratch. Remember the Pidemco Building near Hong Lim Park? Why was it demolished after only 10 years or so?
If you want to believe that when the 99 year lease expires, the HDB will extend the lease, it will still remain a time bomb, unless the HDB, like the Fed, can keep on adding digits to their debts indefinitely. It will still be a time bomb that will just pass on to the next generation and the next.
Instead of hoping that they will extend the lease, I think they were thinking of making it a 60 year lease not too long ago. But that could not be done without the time bomb exploding faster in Sinkie's faces. That must be the problem which prevented them from looking at the 60 year lease idea. Otherwise, would you think the PAP would not try to squeeze out the last drop of juice from daft Sinkies without their knowing it.
11.09am //That must be the problem which prevented them from looking at the 60 year lease idea. //
But in China how many year is it based on the "tricks" they supposedly learned from old fxxt?
To start with, many china brand new properties start with less than 60 years when they get the keys?
And they have like hundreds of millions of units at sky high prices
Just like the elites, they have their best brains such as vice-premier Liu He to solve such "time bombs" ...
Anyone out there know where are the freehold properties in China?
Always the possibility of en-bloc? Hahaha. That was exactly the problem that gave rise to this discussion. En-bloc development only accounts for a tiny, weeny fraction of old HDB flats. And non other than the Minister for National Development warned HDB owners of old flats not to expect that option to accelerate. Waiting for that to happen to your old flat is just like hoping for TOTO first prize.
Keep dreaming, vote PAP and get screwed.
The stupid Sinkies are those who are greedy & believe the PAP bullshit & got into the herd mentality to max out their salary & CPF and buy the most expensive properties in 1996, 2007, 2013, and now 2018 (starting again).
You deserve it right??!?
I know quite a few young people in their early-30s ... earning combined salary of $10K ... still go for 4-rm BTOs @ $300K to $350K. Most don't own a car even if have babies / toddlers.
These people are the smart ones ... many of you will say they are stupid, earn so much & live like beggar. Too bad, these people will be those who can afford to retire when they reach 40 or 45 yrs old.
By 40 yrs old, these people will have sufficient funds & dividend paying portfolio to take it easy in corporate world or semi-retire.
While majority of you will (or still are) slogging into your 50s, 60s, 70s.
PAP loves people like you ... coz they know they got you by your balls.
@11:19 "Anyone out there know where are the freehold properties in China?"
Currently only Macau got freehold properties. Dunno why ... maybe historical??
HK follow UK (like SG) ... max 99 yrs leasehold.
Rest of China is max 70 yrs leasehold.
Officially ALL LAND in China is State Land. So even Macau freehold can be confiscated at minimal or no compensation at whim of CCP or mass communist mobs.
S'pore smarter ... we do "By Law" way using Land Acquisitions Act .... in wartime can also use the Emergency Powers (Resources) Act.
WTF IS GOING ON?
You all have a Prime Minister who has been on the job for 14 years, one of his most important primary responsibilities is to groom a successor to take over the PM's job. Until now, he tells us he still does not know who the next Prime Minister will be. Not only that, worst of all, he indicated that there is no cohesive team ready yet to help the next Prime Minister to steer the country! So, we must all scratch our heads and wonder:
WTF HAS HE BEEN DOING IN THE LAST 14 YEARS?
Got the face to accept the World's Highest Salary plus obscene BONUSES of 19 months. Work one year for 12 months and get paid for 31 months! Yet cannot deliver. And dare to speak so shamelessly like that in public!? Gagi Buta!
Speaking at a public forum organised by Temasek Holdings in Shanghai, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong admits that he is still unable to determine who can be the next Prime Minister. To worsen the matter, the Singapore dictator said he has another problem of finding the next team:
“he issue of who will be Singapore’s next prime minister goes beyond finding the person most suited for the post. More important is having a capable team that can work well together…We have to find a competent team that can work closely together, win the confidence of the people, lead them, and meet and solve challenges together, carve out a new path, and make Singaporeans proud.”
Yah, make Singaporeans proud? Make
Singaporeans don't know where to hide their faces!
@Anonymous April 13, 2018 10:57 am
//Go Ipoh, Penang, Malacca, rent or buy. Every month take bus/flight to Hatyai or Bangkok to extend your stay in Malaysia. Always cheap and good there.//
As a point of discussion, heard from some uncles that their retired friends rent out their flats for S$2,000+ per month and live in neighbouring countries. After deducting rental, expenses etc they are still left with about 30% on the rent collected in sgd. Is this true?
On top of that some still have other passive income sources and retirement payout cashflow. Once a month they will travel to some other places in the region on budget to make up for the travelling they missed out during younger days.
And they supposedly meet up with their children a few times each year? Every week they also keep in touch through video calls with their children and grandchildren via wa?
@anon 12.59pm
Well, Long gor is right as u can't blame him. What he is trying to say is that he is too bz fixing his opponents & oppo parties & to make matter worse he is also fighting a big monster called the DOF monster who gone wild Rampage the whole entire tiny island, he is getting a Mad Dog Murugun to help him solve the mystery. Last but not least, he can't find a competent & capable/cohesive team because most of the talented ones already migrated or become own CEO or working in some large corporations, so what's left r all the 阿兵哥 or paper gens & their jobs r Yes Sir Yes Sir 3 bags fool, so u can't blame him Lah.
Working 12 months a year (all expenses paid by government, with a PMO Annual Budget of $45 - &48 million to spend) and get paid (pays himself) 31 months salary. That is more than $7 million a year. Who want to resign and step down and hand over the Power and lose $7 million a year? You tell me lah.
So must pretend to Wayang as long as possible to delay handing over lah.
PM = Power & Money!
The PeeAm can't handover power lest he become like Matland ex- PeeAm Dr M, maybe that's why he doesn't want to handover mah. Or maybe his Jingle wife will lose one stronger backer & goto explained the everything to the new Leeder on the mystery account of tamasick. Or PeeAm wants the 4G to swear in front of him to handover power to his son after being a sickwarmer, if there is no promises he can't simply just handover power to any Heng Ah or KeeChio or Kang ah. Lastly, he also can't find a 'abang adik' type of team who will die die fight against the oppo party & support each other by hook or by crooks, see being a multi miliion air PeeAm in Sinkieland isn't that ez Leh.
Only the AMK GRC voters can make him step down.
"More important is having a capable team that can work well together.... We have to find a competent team that can work closely together ...." ~ PM Lee Hsien Loong.
What he has admitted is that the present 4G Ministers are not competent and also cannot work together. And also they do not get the full confidence of the people.
That means there is an internal split within the PAP. Probably into three camps: LHL Camp, LKY Camp and Lau Goh Camp.
And who are those incompetent ministers?
1. DPM Teo - treated nurses as low-grade manual workers; unable to convince and negotiate with China; headed the secret ministerial committee and took one long year to come out with the same options which have been determined one year ago.
2. DPM Tar-man - unable to steer the economy to a greater height. In fact, the economy is dying.
3. Finance Minister, stroke-man, unable to manage national budgets and financial resources. As a result, seeks the easy way out by the reckless, excessive and rampant increase in taxes and creating new taxes with impunity. (Hope he will get retribution by Divine Intervention soon - before the GST increase).
4. Transport Minister - unable to solve the MRT problems yet continues to increase fare and personal financial gains. Only Good in giving excuses and talking cock.
5. National Development Minister - unable to foresee infrastructure requirements ahead of time. Unable to budget for Terminal 5. Unable to solve long-term "affordable" housing problems for Singaporeans.
6. Health Minister - created the compulsory Medisave and Medishield Life to hookwink the citizens and siphone and deplete their CPF savings prematurely. This is the single most cruel scheme of all money-sucking schemes.Yet still unable to solve the short, medium and long-term health requirements of the citizens and foreigne workers.
To continue ...
Shiok!!! Hope to see more sinkies die.
Remember you voted for it!!!
@ RB:
The "real value" of the HDB flat is Z E R O . Because it is not property. What you have is a depreciating lease---tick tock tick tock---from 99 - 0 years, according to the PAP's sales pitch "good enough for 2 generations". Whatever "value" you can monetize, comes from some screwball sort-of-"free"-market where leases to property are traded. You don't own JACK SHIT.
When you truly own something, you can essentially do whatever the fuck you want with it, provided you don't affect anyone else. In a private condo situation, you cannot set your apartment on fire because that would affect the whole complex. Private condos have strata titling and you have to abide by "rules" or "by-laws" set up by a management committee or something similar. The arrangement essentially is by private, voluntary contract.
In HDB, the regulations are restrictive. Some of the regulation has been repealed, but I'm just going to shoot out a few from memory:
* Race quotas in HDB dwellings---can only sell to buyers of the same race
* Must lock up one room when renting out the flat (WTF? Public housing can rent out for economic gain ah? Then lock up one room...insananity at play here)
* Cannot keep cats as pets
* Cannot cover up those fucked up ugly water and gas pipes. Ugly electric conduits running all over the flat. (OK, new ones better lah)
* The bat-shit insanity of a BOMB SHELTER , which raises the cost unnecessarily. 😂 (I better don't laugh. Someone probably got a promotion for this "brilliant idea")
* Long waiting lists
* Insane vote buying (but you pay lah) "upgrades" which sent HDB dwellers into fits of joy and frustration; like trying to paint a turd in the hope of making it "better". Older shitty flats should have been demolished. Thankfully, many have. "Upgraded" flats have higher "value". (another case of mass delusion and insanity)
...and so on.
So no, it's not "your" property. It is PUBLIC HOUSING, many which are built on lands appropriated by fiat by the govt.
The idea of "asset appreciation" is false, and now when leases are counting down, the reality is biting. This is a scheme which has run for decades which had the intended effect of misleading people into believing they were RICHER than they actually are. They bought a LEASE from The State, which created a false market where people got trade leases. The "cash top-up" during settlement was seen as "profit". But whatever you borrowed form "your" CPF, had to be paid back...to "yourself".
Did they consult with Bernie Madoff when designing this scam? 🤣
So, could you make money? OF COURSE! That's the whole idea!. If not, the ruse won't work. Pass the hot potato round and round, until the poor sucker somewhere near the end...alamak, cold potato. You let people make money...for awhile, and they vote you back again and again.
Then DECADES LATER...some people go..."Eh, what the fuck...". Too late bro'. They already got your money...
HDB + CPF, brilliant lah. Simply Brilliant. Use CPF to buy HDB from govt? Self-funded public housing, disguised as "private" because people thing that a lease is actually title to a property. No, it's not, and can never be.
Asset ah? Kepala butoh lah sial!
@ 144:
>> heard from some uncles that their retired friends rent out their flats for S$2,000+ per month and live in neighbouring countries. After deducting rental, expenses etc they are still left with about 30% on the rent collected in sgd. Is this true? <<
Absolutely true. I was one of them. During the "crazy years" when people were flooding in to Singapore to seek riches beyond their dreams, rentals shot up like people were high on drugs. I was collecting 3k a month from a nice Indian-Malaysian doctor and his family on contract.
Since I already owned (technically no, I don't "own" anything, it's in a family trust*) the place I lived in in Australia, I just moved everything "home" (best of 2 worlds lah) I earned a nice bit of dosh over 5 years. I think I replaced one water heater and an aircon. Nothing. I raised the rent incrementally to 3,500...so the new water heater and aircon didn't cost me one cent. And then I moved back to Singapore, back to the heartlands, like a good Patriot! 😂
There are other uncles who are doing the same. I know one who rented out his Orchard Road (not HDB) condo for 12k a month, and had a glorious time in Australia, where he rented a big place, bought a boat, and a nice SUV to tow the boat.
C'mon lah, we are Singaporeans. Find the lobang, and exploit it. And NEVER give up your Singapore citizenship, unless you really have no intention of returning, and want to get all "your" CPF.
* In Australia placing your assets in a trust is the way to go, otherwise the taxman will rape you...repeatedly every year.
Smart sinkies just loved the PAP to bring in another 5 millions.
The demand for rental flats is high. Retirees no need to work in hawkers centres and limp all the way to collect crockery.
Just either sell your 9800, 24,500 or 45K flats brought cheep cheep and have capital gains of 200K, 600, 800k.
Second option rent for 2K,2.5K or 3.6K for 5 room flat.Stay with children or rent or buy one in Matland. Condo at Melaka rents only RM800.00 over looking sea front.
JB shop house 72 tenants type of rentals only at RM200. Some more those talkative ones at night can talk cock and bull stories with bar girls, pimps and prostitutes to keep you from dementia.
Still virile can have fast one without going anywhere.
No travel hassles at Checkpoints for three to five hours. From there can sojourn up North,South,East or West. Matland visa 30 days. Either to sinking land, Thailand or Indonesia and back with another 30 days stay again.Feel bored go to KL and see demonstrations or protests.
DONT care whether the farking pinoys,Burmese, Ah Nehs or Chinmen disturb your neighbours or not.
You are not around to see these unpleasant happenings.After all Sinkies deservedly need to be screwed by these trashes to make them wiser.Any foreigner just observed one day on the behaviours of Sinkies ans they knew that they can be easily intimidated and many too scared to fight and complain.
The worst is that they knew that the Male Sinkies some more do Military and Civil Police training. They are worst than their women folks back home.
So tame and meek and easily intimidated. All just MYOB. You die, you business. I three monkeys attitudes. See nothing, hear nothing and talk nothing.
So smart Sinkies know how to make MONIES on the miseries of others and just enjoy themselves.
That's why you seldom see Sinkies smile in Singapore. Only in Matland having a good time.
Thr real value of HDB flat IS the cost of construction, minus the value of land.
Legally, the HDB cannot charge the value of land for various reasons.
Therefore, the true value of HDB flats are as follows:
1-room flat $8,000
2-room flat $10,000
3-room flat $15,000
4-room flat $20,000
5-room flat $30,000
Construction of car park cannot be charge because it is used to collect monthly parking fees, same as business outlay.
Construction of roads leading to the car parks should be included under construction of car parks.
Construction of sewage and drainage should be charge to Public Utilities because taxes have been levied on water and electricity, toilets and water-borne fees on monthly basis. It is like doing business rental.
Therefore, every single leasee has been many times over-charged by the Leassor for staying in a government low-grade public mass-construction housing scheme.
PAP take the citizens as fools and has been lying to them for years on many schemes. To cover themselves, they create new laws like a camp commandant giving routine orders.
@847
Legally you're not supposed to make money from subsidized public housing.
However in Singapore culture "situational ethics" means laws can suka suka change for "national interest".
$$hiok lah!
@ Virgo,
Aiyah, why over ANALyse? Just shoot lah. Use PAP's "free kick" to further your own self interest lah. Just don't con yourself that the party will continue FOREVER.
In every Ponzi scheme, all you have to do is make sure you are not the sucker at the end of the chain. 😂😎
The HDB flats are not subsidized by the government. It is the citizens snd PRs who "subsidized" the Government through the HDB by over-paying with interests for the over-charged low-grade government housing.
Whoever continues to state that the HDB flats are subsidized by the Government is a con man or woman who does not know when to stop conning the people.
You can bluff some people all the time. You can bluff all the people sometimes. But
YOU CANNOT BLUFF ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME!
@ 425
The sg.gov spends billions on getting us a good STEM education. How come you seem like you ponteng class🤣?
It's a numbers game. Some fool had to subsidize the HDBs... otherwise you'll be paying true market rates, ie private condo prices. But you buy cheaper then pocket the profit when you sell HIGH during a boom. Good deal lah. Why you complain? 🙄
Also, back to numbers: you DEFINITELY CAN fool most of the people most of the time. That's GOOD ENOUGH for profitability.
That's how markets work...can you make a profit from the market deploying resources to a market of "buyers"?
The govt deploys fake news to the market aka SHEEPLE. Does the govt make a "profit"?
You bet your arse it does!
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