Every time I heard of more schemes and training programmes for the PMEs
my blood pressure goes up. Only people with vacuums in between their
ears would think their hare brain schemes are brilliant schemes to solve
a self created farcical problem. The only way to put something sensible
into the vacuum is to make them PMEs and make them go through their
hare brain schemes, put them through their silly training programmes to
become dishwashers or table cleaners.
What is the problem sacked and retrenched PMEs are facing, or what is
the cause of their problems? What are you going to teach a 30 year
experienced PMEs with a string of degrees and technical certificates on?
Dishwashing or sweeping the floor? When I look across the job market,
it is so exasperating to think that all those middle management jobs are
far too sophisticated and difficult for the PMEs when they were in the
jobs for several decades.
And I find it a silly joke that 3rd world villagers from chapalan
universities have the required skill sets and technical expertise to
replace our PMEs who have been practising their trades and professions
in a 1st world economy, a knowledge based economy for decades. Who were
there to teach them to be better than our PMEs? How many of the jobs
given to 3rd world villagers cannot be done by our PMEs? How many of
these 3rd world talents possessed better qualifications that are real
and from better universities than our PMEs? I have seen many Apapa and
Amama universities that straight away raised a red flag.
Do they know what are the real problems on the ground? No, they do not
want to know. They only want to bring in more 3rd world villagers and
their cousins, and to believe that they are the best talents to bring
this 1st world economy and city back to the 3rd world.
Start with a few simple and effective solutions. Civil services, stats
boards and GLC companies must stop employing 3rd world half bakes and
fakes from chapalan universities. This will stop the PME problems
immediately and give back dignity to our PMEs. Please don’t treat them
like little lost children that need more training, or like lepers that
should be shunned.
Do not betray your own citizens with funny and silly schemes. This is
the last straw and they will vote you out in the next GE. If you do not
want to take care of their interest and only think of taking care of
foreigners, they would not take care of yours either. Every PME losing
his job is a family in trouble and a family of votes that would go with
them. With a life span of 80 to 90 years, it is a nightmare to lose
their jobs at 50 or 60. They have another 20 to 30 years to live and
being jobless or a cleaner is not the way to go.
Think, think. Fill the vacuum with something useful, not money and more money.
Kopi Level - Red
69 comments:
Some local PMEs in their 40s and 50s have attitude problems, exhibited either during interview process or work. The interviewers who are 30s or 40s, will invariably choose to employ humbler and hungrier people who are younger.
I think we need re-training schemes for PAP Ministers;
You know ... all the Ministers without Portfolio and Ministers In The Prime Ministers Office.
Just think.
If we had a re-training scheme for Ministers;
Maybe George Yeo and his Ministerial team will still be working in Singapore.
I think we still have job openings as crane operators and taxi drivers.
Anon 9:39, that is the most sensible and right answer. We should get rid of all the oldies that have attitude problem and replaced them with young, hungrey and very nice foreigners. Then we can have a new Singapore with new people, hungry and dynamic and very talented.
I hope you as as hungry, dynamic and talented as them, or else I am not going to feel sorry for you and your children.
I think, undoubtedly, the best training schemes for older PMES has to be taxi-driving and security, with the most popular being the former.
Any other scheme is invariably a waste of time because employers take one look at their age, and tend to look down on their abilities, and will offer them down the gutter salaries.
Of course, a few will get the good opportunities and blow their trumpet with the help of the MSM and NTUC.
But what is so bad about being a cleaner.Many of those Pmets that i came across are too proud and arrogant.
Sometimes its good to see them being turn into worker as this will indirectly train them to become humble or respectful to others.
Today i still see local Pmets showing colour or finding faults.How to pity them losing their jobs.
"What is the problem sacked and retrenched PMEs are facing, or what is the cause of their problems? "
RB
Please lah, do not assume most Sinkie PMEs were sacked and retrenched, or have problems.
Only daft ones, and a minority too, maybe 40% or less, even in worse times than now, like in 2011.
Can u expect 100% Sinkie PMEs with no problems, u tell me lah?
U cannot expect 100% Sinkies to vote for PAP.
Similarly, u cannot expect 100% Sinkies are happy and with no problems.
If Singaporeans vote wisely again in GE 2016, we will need job re-training schemes for PAP Ministers.
Or else increase the number of mayors to 20.
Hr Policy Singapore - Old aunt cannot bear S$1-S$2 to buy simple food for meal . Parent cannot bear S$200-S$300 to purchase school book for child . Employer cannot bear S$3000-S$4000 to get experienced local for company
- Hands-On Green Matters
It's like the drugs for fighting cancer. It can cause bad side effects, but can't be helped lah, tio bo?
And Sinkies no enough is a cancer which PAP fights with the drug of getting lots of foreign talents.
And some of the bad side effects being some Sinkie PMEs lost their jobs and become taxi drivers or security guards lah. But can't be helped lah, tio bo?
The foreigners are trained by the best professors in their village universities with the most modern management techniques and knowledge. Anytime better than the expensive professors in our top universities.
No wonder they are so good and our local students are so bad to the point of unemployable.
How many of you believe this shit that has been floating around for so long? Can't you smell the shit?
I think we should send our President scholars to India, China and Philippines universities for their degree programs.
When I was working in Samina-Sci at 2 Chai Chee drive, foreigners do not know how to Google to do a double axis on excel, do not know how to reset password, wear ESD smock and shoe to canteen and smoking area, do not know how to use computer, gave me a lousy Pentium 4 computer with 512 DDR ram, IT department expect me to install memory ram myself but gave me DDR2, Scream, Vulgar, Shout, Hit, Push,
11 millions worth of inventory on hold which the big boss is so damn unhappy about - he make great sense as he mention if he where to send a machine to Batam, he will sent the best one as there is no support there - great to be working under smart guy with no character problem - the worse kind of person is when you do not know anything but you want to show your authority - and most of the time foreigner will network with foreigner - gave them high pay cos they can buy a car - tell boss no internet at home so cannot work from home after office hour - what era is it now - no internet at home? but got money buy car? joke.
expect me to have great interpersonal skill when I have tons of excel report to be done - I am not a sales man - you employ me to work - expect me to smile for 8 hours? - expect me to walk pass everyone and say hello?
feel that the canteen food is damn disgusting - go out for lunch break for 2 hours - As a Singaporean I can eat the canteen everyday - what is wrong - you telling me your 3rd world country food any better?
send them go penang plant to help them, after that come back, no one ever want to go penang plant again - still feel singapore is better - even they come from 3rd world country, they would not want to go penang plant ever again and prefer to stay in singapore - you telling me singaporean are choosy - they cant even swallow the canteen food.
The Way I See It
there is really no way PAP is
going to make all PMEs happy.....
as long as the PAP can make MORE
PMEs happy (which PAP currently
is doing fine), PAP will get the
happy PMEs votes.....
those PMEs left behind can only
kpkb but very sorry, no "devil"
use.....
what say U.....
cheers.....
Hi folks,
I see you all still live in the myth that "my university good, your university shit."
Employers look for RESULTS lah. i.e. they want people with the ENTHUSIASM TO GET THE JOB DONE. Most of the training required is done "in-house" and "on the job" anyway.
At the end of the day, uni degrees are increasing becoming more "worth-less" because the fucking world of work is changing, for starters.
Also many of thse in business long long time have long suspected "academic inflation" -- now you need "qualifications" just to take a piss with your own cock lah... it is ridiculous.
The number of "degrees" has increased worldwide as the cost of a basic bachelor's degree, which is not worth shit these days. Employers want people to do the job better, faster and at a reasonable cost. We live in a 24/7 world now. If you still want to go home at 5 or 6 pm, join the govt lah you lazy bum!
I present you a Forbes article from this year, 2014:
College Degrees Aren't Becoming More Valuable -- Their Glut Confines People Without Them To A Shrinking, Low-Pay Sector Of The Market
To redbean specifically::
Hey man, every day you flog this dead horse. IMO you are doing the local PMEs a huge disservice by giving them false hopes, and by implying "the govt is responsible for giving me a job" -- which is ridiculous. There is no govt in any free cuntry -- like Singapore (yes, Singapore is a free cuntry) -- which can guarantee that. even in a command economy, such an idea is unsustainable.
I cannot know for certain your reasons for doing this: maybe you are really concerned and have "good intentions", maybe you're hell bent on generating traffic and "click-baiting"...I don't know..
What is obvious is that you are way out of step with what's really going on.
This is just my 2 rupees and pesos. Your blog lah, write what you want.
Local PME's: better for you to accept the FACTS of reality. Then you can move on with improving your life. However, i you're still believing in fairies, then I'm sorry to tell you that your life is going to suck even more as time goes on.
Very sincerely, Best wishes.
Matilah, I can accept that some PMEs are real pain in the arse. No doubt about it. But don't generalise to say all PMEs are like that.
Politically, the govt has to look after the people's welfare and interest. If they don't, the people will simply VTO. That is democracy.
There are so many govt jobs and GLC jobs that there is no reason why our PMEs are begging to get a job. You cannot live for 20 years without an income. You cannot even live for 6 months without an income in this expensive city.
For those PMEs that are a pain, blacklist them and they deserved to go unemployed. But many PMEs are good workers and want to work and have no choice but need to work.
If the govt fails them, don't come back and cry when they are booted out in the next GE. The politicians' first priority is the interest of the people and country. Foreigners should be on a basis of ok, we have excess jobs, here is one for you and you.
Foreigners must not be allowed to dominate the job market and dictate who get employed and who don't. Has the govt lost control or losing sight of why they are in govt?
There is only one PME you losers have to think about and that is the Prime Minister's Ego.
I'm sorry to hear that that happened to you too. Very often those foreigners would give jobs to their own kind (especially when they're given the rights to do so) even they're not as good as locals. Oh but they have the certificates to prove that they're qualified for the jobs. They're hide their incompetence by passing on tasks to the local staff (or get their superiors to pass the tasks).
Then it's the Singapore staff that have become not as good/qualified as compared to them.
Politically, the govt has to look after the people's welfare and interest. If they don't, the people will simply VTO. That is democracy.
RB 11:32 am
VTO? And were things in 2011 better for PMEs turn taxi drivers and security guards than now?
And by your logic, VTO should happen in 2011 but it didn't, tio bo?
So why should it happen next GE, u tell me lah?
Anon 12:49, are you the coward that put up a challenge that PAP would winn everything but went into hiding when I challenged you?
Anon 1:16 pm, Why r u anon when u challenge? R u a bigger coward?
R u a bigger coward?
Anon 1:33 pm
Tiok. It takes a bigger anon coward to challenge a anon coward.
It takes a bigger fool to be cheated by a Fool. Or to be ruled by a Fool.
Hahahahaha.
What I like about the PAP. It encourages people to be passionate and be proud in what you believed in. Be transparent, identify yourself and be credible.
How many of you believe in this statement of the PAP? I am sure PAP is not saying you people be transparent and PAP does not need to be transparent. All has to be transparent and be proud about it.
PAP is already very transparent, because one look only can see clearly PAP is both good and bad lah, tio bo?
PAP good, so get 60% votes during election.
PAP bad, get 40% votes, also during same election.
So PAP is very transparent to show good and bad lah.
1/2
@RB:
>>But don't generalise to say all PMEs are like that.
Although I did generalise, I did add a caveat to state (if you read carefully) that there do exist PME's who are good folks. BTW, I hire these people occasionally. I think I can tell the difference between my left shoe and right shoe, so I'm not that dumb. Far too many PME's have a really stinky attitude -- at least out of the total I've had the displeasure of saying "thank you, best of luck, goodbye".
Anyway, back to the grist of my previous comment -- the problem, for me, is your attitude towards these PME's, blaming the govt for the mess and more than implying that "every local deserves a job in their chosen field" (clearly untrue even to the most economically uneducated adult).
You also:
1. Give them false hope -- what they are experiencing i.e. "structural unemployment" is a global trend, as our dumb species reorganises itself in the work, social and political areas.
2. Adding more fuel to the already negative fire -- these folks are HURTING. Ok, I have tekaned them in the most merciless ways, I'll admit to that. However you seem to come across as if to say that they have NO NEED for personal responsibility because it is not their fault.
Here's the thing mate, in the world of adults, one is required to take personal responsibility EVEN IF some unsavoury event is not directly your fault.
Sure, you are allowed to "be a victim", but not forever and ever. Only children who believe in fairy tales believe that "someone is coming to save me" attitude, or that the world is fair and just -- i.e. "I'm good, therefore I deserve good things. He's bad therefore a thousand curses be unto him!!".
IMO, you seem to be propagating these myths which doesn't serve anyone, except maybe for your own Google rankings. <<== cheap shot, delivered without a sliver of evidence.
Please lah, if you really want to help the local PME's, then be genuine/ effective about it. That's what I'm saying.
2/2
I have 2 friends (yes, hard to believe I know, but i do actually have real friends in the real world!) who have been out of full-time work -- they do "odd jobs" here and there -- for 2 years going on 3 already.
Due to the stress of being out of work and over 50, they started neglecting themselves. Both attitude and personal self-image deteriorated quickly. They got involved in bullshit Herbalife and other assorted Ponzi MLM schemes, and of course lost plenty of their precious money. Their personal relationships went south. Mutual friends of ours started avoiding them -- block calls on handphone etc.
Even their conversations with me would start out cordially then degenerate into hostility. How dah? How to help someone who has quit on themselves?
They are over 50. They start to put on weight -- due mainly to drinking and eating far in excess, blood pressure up, blood sugar getting dangerous. I said: "Hey fat fucks, get to the gym before you kill yourself" (I'm not one to mince my words).
Go to bed early and SLEEP 8 hours, stop surfing the internet late at night, eat healthy and for fucks sake find 20 mins where you can just sit quietly and still your shit-stirred monkey mind".
This was 4 months ago. Today they are still only working part-time, but they are no longer hostile pains in the ass, they are more "centered" and have stop blaming the govt -- although they still don't like the govt, which is ok.
I'll start by making my own small contribution here to the local PME's and to those who feel "stuck" or "pissed off" in Singapore.
1. What has happened to you although not your fault, is still your responsibility when it comes to forming MEANING and choosing a RESPONSE. Own it.
2. What has happened to you is a global trend, which won't stop. You'll need to make changes.
3. Spend a significant amount of time Looking After Number 1 -- give it a solid month or 2. Meaning:
4. Get your full 8 hours of QUALITY SLEEP. Use ear plugs and eye masks if necessary to shut out all light and extraneous noise.
5. Eat properly -- you know the drill. Mind the alcohol intake.
6. Exercise everyday. Yes, everyday. Do something ACTIVE and PHYSICAL.
7. Contemplate. Some call it meditate. Join a class or go online to learn. It is very easy to do, but also very hard to do. (huh? Try it, then you'll know)
Yes, folks, this shit works. There is a fuck-tonne of science to back this up. No, you don't have to believe in space fairies or gods if you don't want to.
8. Be nice to everyone in the real world. Greet strangers. Smile. be polite. Say "please" and "thank you" (very few people act this way in Singapore -- sadly)
Do do "road rage" -- let it go. Don't shove on the MRT, let it go. Don't fight with neighbours, let it go. Whatever you can let go, let the fuck go.
9. Make sure you don't neglect your friends and those close to you. Don't be "needy" with them. Act "positive" even if you feel like shit. They might also feel like shit. Be the one to bring some joy to the table.
10. Have regular sex. Don't laugh. I'm serious. Plenty of science to back this up too.
Use this as a checklist. This is basic list of "things to do" to recover, if you fall off the rails, and we all fall off the rails occasionally.
Good luck. Redbean, your contribution please.
What structural unemployment? We have full employment, over employment by 2m foreigners. Why is it so difficult for our PMEs to get a decent job? I am not referring to those pita cases. Many want to work and are desperate to work. They got another 20/30 years to tie over.
Go visit Transitioning.org for a glimpse of the problem. Go ask the PME taxi drivers and all the PME underemployed and unemployed.
This is no longer a joke. It is very serious. The only joke is when they are trying to retrain these experienced PMEs to do lower grade jobs.
The retrenching of middle age PMEs is like a trend now and more and more of these people will be out of jobs. And when I look at their replacements, I only shake my head.
@ redbean:
I have to correct a few more myths:
>> Politically, the govt has to look after the people's welfare and interest.
Haven't they done that? HDB? 1st class education for the kids...where do you want to draw the line?
Singaporeans get THE BEST start in life comparable to anywhere in the world. To suggest that the govt "doesn't do shit" is a tad extreme and unreasonable.
No govt is "perfect". But the Singapore govt is about the best you're gonna get in this world lah. I am NOT a fan boy for the govt., but I have lived more than half my life in Aust -- and with 3 separate govts -- state, local and federal, it is still no where NEAR how the PAP just gets the fucking job done, kicking and screaming if necessary.
>> If they don't, the people will simply VTO.
One day every govt will get voted out. So what? Does that mean the new govt will be better? If you look at history the answer is NO, because the people in govt come from the same CULTURAL POOL as the people who vote them in. Politics and style of government emanates from culture. That's why western govt exhibits traits of western civilization and Asian govts exhibit traits of their local Asian culture.
>> That is democracy.
Regardless of the pledge which people recite like robots but no one actually follows -- i.e. like prayers in mosques, temples or churches -- Singapore IS NOT a "democracy" in the true sense of the word. Please stop saying that it is, because it in simply NOT TRUE!!!
Singapore is a REPUBLIC (check the constitution please), and the representatives are chose by democratic process.
The constitution of a republic has safe guards against the "tyranny of the many" -- i.e. to prevent the mob from trampling over the rights of the minority.
You cannot just simply vote your whim into existence in Singapore -- no matter how strongly you feel on the issue.
>> If the govt fails them, don't come back and cry when they are booted out in the next GE
The prerogative of everyone at the ballot is to be able to vote with their conscience. So be it.
Has the PAP "failed" the PME's?
IMO, no they haven't. What has happened is a global trend. Singapore runs an "open economy" because there is no other viable, sustainable choice.
@RB:
>> What structural unemployment? We have full employment, over employment by 2m foreigners.
Of course there's structural unemployment. The new structures are done with less people, on less pay but with heavier work loads -- that's the nature of the beast.
If you are aware of the content on transitioning.org, you will find tons of articles on dealing with depression, anxiety and overwhelm.
THAT is what I'm talking about. You, redbean, only contribute to the negative side by this thing about the "govt can solve this". No they cannot, not in toto anyway. But they can help, and to be fair, they are -- much better than the dole/ job support you'll find in Australia, UK or the US. If I were to score those cuntree, I give them 5/10. The PAP get a score of 6.5 to7 in my arbitrary ranking.
>> The only joke is when they are trying to retrain these experienced PMEs to do lower grade jobs.
At least that's a start. What you want meh? To reverse global trends? You're being totally unreasonable!
>> The retrenching of middle age PMEs is like a trend now and more and more of these people will be out of jobs.
100% agreement there. So what, you want the govt to fix this? It is a TREND lah. Sooner or later you cannot rely on the govt to take care of your own personal "bad luck". At some point, you have to own it.
Yes, it is your opinion and my opinion that doesn't gel with yours. And PAP also has its own opinion. We can only share our opinions and no one is wiser.
But it is good to have different perspectives of things. Whether PAP has failed the PMEs and Singaporeans would not be settled by your opinion or my opinion. No need to argue unlike face turned green. Just state your opinion and walk away.
In this kind of things, only little kids would argue and quarrel and would want to fight it out. Mine is bigger than yours is to be settled by the fists.
Once I called the nursery to change the soil and turf the garden. The driver (most likely a local Chinese in his early 50) and a few FTs (a PRC and 2 Indians) came. PRC and 1 Indian and the local Chinese all around same age.
The FTs toiled hard, sweat, carry heavy work, while the local sit in his lorry smoking or just sitting on the pavement outside doing nothing for 2 hours. Yes 2 hours. About half an hour before work finished, local came in with grudging face started helping out by putting new turf. Since I saw him putting, I reminded him politely to remove the old weeds, as I have for other workers earlier. The other workers were very polite, said Yes yes, we know, we will. But local face turned red, kept quiet for a few seconds, then retorted "Cant you see, I did, I have been ??".
So it is not prejudice. Some locals really have a attitude problem. They really need to reflect upon themselves. Nobody owes them a living.
I agree. Some of the oldies don't deserve to be helped. In the kopitiams, I rather be served by the young and fresh and polite China girls than the grouchy and unhappy and rude oldies. Their attitude to serving and cleaning the tables are appalling.
But I am very sad to see so many PMEs having their jobs snatched away from them by dubious foreigners.
Australia very happy signing a free trade agreement with China but still concern about jobs for its citizens.
'ACTU President Ged Kearney said there was a risk that Australian jobs could be lost as labour mobility between the two countries was made easier.
'The last thing we need is for our government to trade away our jobs and our kids' future,' she told AAP.'
many of you mentioned that some of the oldies ......
have attitude problems.....
grouchy.....
unhappy.....
rude.....
etc etc etc.......
do you know WHY they are behaving this way.....
think think think........
Its the same like many men divorcing their old wives and get new and dubious background ones from third world countries. The world can only be better socially if it is ruled by women.
Unless the PMEs have special talents, it is a natural course for the new to replace the old.
and thus PMEs must try hard to establish 'connections' with powerful people to make themselves still useful for employment before they get the x.
Of course, to work outside, after work attitude, one needs basic EQ, especially with the boss. Without basic EQ, how to get promoted and even stay on the job?
To do well, must always swim with the mainstream, don't swim against the stream, sure lose.
"So it is not prejudice. Some locals really have a attitude problem. They really need to reflect upon themselves. Nobody owes them a living."
November 17, 2014 3:32 pm
I agree.
For National Service we should replace all Singaporeans with FTs.
This will teach young Singaporeans that nobody owes them a living.
"So it is not prejudice. Some locals really have a attitude problem. They really need to reflect upon themselves. Nobody owes them a living."
November 17, 2014 3:32 pm
I agree.
For CPF, we should return all the money back to Singaporeans.
And replace the money with money belonging to FTs.
This will teach Singaporeans that nobody owes them a living.
@426:
>> Australia very happy signing a free trade agreement with China but still concern about jobs for its citizens.
Actually, no. It is divided. Business wants a free (freer) labour market. The unions don't. But, union membership is down, so unions are not that strong.
>> ACTU President Ged Kearney said there was a risk that Australian jobs could be lost as labour mobility between the two countries was made easier.
Not 'could be'. It is definite 'will be'. However the service industry is growing, so that's where the 'new' jobs will be.
>> 'The last thing we need is for our government to trade away our jobs and our kids' future,' she told AAP
Typical asshole union president with "entitlement mentality" -- if it goes wrong, blame the govt.
Aust average wage weekly fulltime wage is ~ AUD 1400-1500+ , about SGD 7k per month.
Minimum adult wage is ~ AUD16-17 per hour, or ~AUD 640 weekly for full timers. <<<=== this is what you have to pay your workers if you are a boss! Can you make it in business? You'll be struggling, I guarantee.
The Chinese govt and business community are already planning to bring over their own labour to work in the businesses they already OWN in Australia. Why not?
Who the fuck are the unions to tell them who they can employ and what they ought to pay? That is nonsense. Now there is a FTA, so Aust has to comply. Fait Accompli.
Will there be riots? Probably. Aussies like their freedom to protest and make lots of noise. But it will last a short time, then the mood will return to normal.
Interesting to read the differences of view between RB and Matilah who appears to be an employer rather than an employed and who appears to have lived 'half his life in Australia'. Compared to Australia with its unions, high basic wages etc, of course Singapore is a wonderful business-friendly place where 'results' are all that matters. Maybe that's why he prefers doing business in Singapore. Harder probably to be as successful in Australia because of high wages etc.
So it is not surprising that, for him, the SG govt has done well, better than Au, UK or US. Better because it is much easier to do business and make money than these other countries with their 'unnecessary' encumbrances. So why don't Au, UK and US, or for that matter the Swiss and the Scandinavians follow the Singapore model? The answer appears to be because there are other societal considerations such as the need to take care of the less abled, the less talented and the vulnerable. There is such a thing called the right to live a dignified life EVEN IF ONE IS NOT WONDERFULLY TALENTED. Not everyone can be as successful as Matilah. A government's priorities do not always equate with the needs of business. It has to consider the needs of the 'employed' or the 'employable' as well. Its policies, including immigration policies, can affect their prospects. Yes, of course I agree with Matilah that there are likely to be those mature PMEs who may have a 'attitude' problem, but when you consider that foreigners make up some 40% of the workforce (if I am not wrong) then this is certainly vastly disproportionate compared to most other countries that we might care to consider. Having lived much of my life abroad as well, I can quite categorically say that foreigners by and large are not more able than Singaporeans; just that they are more articulate and 'thick skinned' and more prepared to make a fool of themselves to learn what it takes to produce results. Being less sensitive to criticism helps give a kind of 'false' confidence. Ultimately, it is about opportunities given and taken. Yes, personal responsibility must be accepted for one's fortunes, but there is a 'Matthew effect' at work that creates circular traps like the 'poverty trap' for instance. On can find oneself in situations, not of one's making which can render oneself helpless to help oneself. This is when the naïve notion of the 'American Dream' from a bygone age can only remain always out of reach; a dream and not a reality. Structural and institutionalised biases can prevent one from 'bootstrapping' oneself out of the employment 'hole' one finds onself. This 'reality' is something that some governments recognise.
Sinkies are caught in the Dalit Making Process.
A govt that does not serve the interest of its people would be booted out by the people.
@106:
Quite correct. I live in Oz, I produce in Singapore.
With its AUD 6000 average monthly wage, even with the higher tax (which has come down substantially), Australia is a great place to be a wage earner, and enjoy a high quality lifestyle-- especially if you enjoy nature and the outdoors as I do.
With its open economy, great infrastructure, efficient government, crystal clear laws, and low taxes Singapore is a great place to conduct private enterprise.
I'm merely doing the most obvious thing -- take the easiest way out.
BTW, I do not consider myself "successful". I do alright for a small-timer. But in the 30 or so years it has taken me to "get my shit together", there have been very troubling times.
The reason I am doing this now is because I was thrown out of my nice cushy, obscenely paid expat corporate job in Singapore just before the 1997 crash. So yeah, I know what it is like and how it feels to be UNEMPLOYED. I left Singapore angry and feeling really fucking down, feeling like a worthless piece of shit.
Luckily I managed to get a part time lecturing job at one of the universities here in Oz, and so I slowly built myself up and recovered. Like I said, Aust is great place to be a wage earner.
The uni were paid me AUD 60 per hr, plus a few small perks and superannuation (retirement fund, better than CPF). So I was OK. My former colleagues in Singapore were still down and out. No one was hiring.
Being a greedy Singaporean, I had a side line. In those suaku Australia days, people had learnt a few new words like "internet" and "web site". Since I could code HTML, I built websites for about a year, until the competition came in and the prices went down.
By SHEER LUCK, one of my ex-classmates in Singapore ventured into an internet startup and roped me into his team. We built up the business and were finally bought out 2 years later by some rich Hong Kong dude. In this time I was making contacts and networking, which led me to spend the next 11 years in Thailand mostly, with stints in Shanghai and the Bay Area of Northern California.
In all this time, the people who gave me the most hassles were governments. You need this permit, that permit...blah blah, work visas. For a small operator this saps your time and energy. Which is why I simply mistrust, loathe and avoid govts as far as possible. Fuck all of them.
So I do not agree that people are "entitled" to things like welfare, or a basic living wage. It is up to you to plan your life, follow your passion if that's your bag, go out and make friends with people, and BRING VALUE to people so that they will in return PAY YOU for your contribution.
"Entitlement mentality" is alive and well, and it is not only the "losers welfare queens" who exhibit this behaviour. Banks, multinationals, billionaires all think they are "entitled" to rip off customers, grab tax payer money (with the aid of their govt friends), kick natives off their land and steal the minerals. Wives think they are "entitled". Children definitely think they are "entitled". Pop stars and celebrities wake up everyday believing themselves to be entitled.
Entitlement is pervasive, and that pisses me off on some level, but also is a cause of self-sabotage to those who deserve to be whacked because of their entitled assholery which makes me happy I begin to delude myself that there's "justice" in this impersonal universe.
Whilst many will disagree with me on a many of my views, suffice it to say, no one here likes the idea of an Entitled Asshole -- defined as someone who thinks themselves so fucking special that the norms and rules don't apply to them. so they cut queues, don't deliver on promises, litter and spit in public, think that they are worth much more than you...you know the type...
Matilah, the people who think entitlement are those assholes that needed millions to survive as a wage earner. And they conned the daft by putting it in such a way that the daft are the ones suffering from entitlement mentality. You are one of them who thinks like that also.
Many of the PMEs have been robbed of their jobs by fucking foreigners and needed only another job, not necessarily million dollar jobs and not necessarily the same paying job. They need just a decent job commensurate with their experience, even a bit lower paying.
And they are fully capable of doing the jobs well.
But they were kicked out of the job market by the system and foreigners gaming the system.
They are not suffering from entitlement mentality. They needed to gang up to fight for their rights to a job. They have got their act together. They will.
And there are many smug assholes like who think you are damn smart because you got out of it. And some of the asses hiding under anonymous who think they too are very smart. Wait till they lose their jobs and become cry babies like the PMEs of today.
Don't worry, their turns will come, sooner or later.
@ fellow entitlement hater redbean:
Here I disagree:
>>They needed to gang up to fight for their rights to a job.
Unfortunately there is no such thing as a "right to a job". The best you can do is have freewill to apply for a job.
When you say a "right", means you obligate some other party to furnish that right, which means you FORCE a cost on them without or against their consent.
"Ganging up" means at the very least using collective force. Remember the double edged sword: the employers can also "gang up" against you. No one wins this zero-sum game.
>>They have got their act together. They will.
I will believe it when I see it. So far, all I hear is incessant bitching.
===
You have read me wrong: although I support the idea of high govt salaries, is akin tpaying "protection money" to the gangsters you cannot fight without incurring expensive costs -- i.e. it's cheaper to "pay off the thugs", so that you can exist in relative peace and get on with your enterprises.
I loath govt, and most of the people who work for them. They are leeches. I dislike and distrust all of them. They don't do jack shit the private sector can do at far lower cost. They epitomise the ENTITLEMENT ASSHOLE, and they have the power to BULLY and COERCE -- legally, which they do!
If you work for govt, you will not get invited to my home and the only way you're going to get in is with a WARRANT accompanied by threatening armed police. So fuck you.
>> Many of the PMEs have been robbed of their jobs by fucking foreigners [...] They need just a decent job commensurate with their experience, even a bit lower paying.
Please lah. You sound like those white supremacist racists of the Aust circa 1970's-80's panic stricken by the "Yellow Hordes" about to "invade" the cuntry.
Such emotional language, such hyperbole -- doesn't serve to solve their problems.
Bad luck happens to everyone. That doesn't give you the automatic right to make a claim on someone else.
Foreigners didn't "steal" anyones job lah. They were offered the positions and had to apply, just like everyone else. Was there an "anti-local" bias? Perhaps. But that is quite within the confines of the law. No one was forced out of their job at gun point, so you might want to "relac bruther" with the emotionally-charged lingo.
>> there are many smug assholes like who think you are damn smart because you got out of it.
Sure. Haters are going to hate. Nothing can be done about that. Point is, I don't consider myself "smart". I'm very average.
The credit I take for my "recovery" is only about 10-20%. I am so grateful to the very good people who gave me a break when I was down. 80-90% of credit goes to them.
I have many such people in my circle. and I do likewise for them when it comes my turn to help. Although I fuck people about "belief", I have one which I hold dear: Quan Xi / Guanxi. If there is one idea I am RELIGIOUS about, that would be Quan Xi.
Non quan xi people are the welfare-grabbing entitlement assholes who believe that they can make a claim on society because of their (self-inflicted) 'bad luck". So to you folks I say: FUCK YOU, EAT SHIT AND DIE. I'm am laughing my balls off at you and I hope you get worse! kekekekeke... This is my "smug response" to those assholes.
Are you down and out, and all fucked up? Then have a good hard, painful look at your attitude and your relationships. I can predict with a good degree of certainty that those are the areas you need to attend to -- immediately.
P.S.: There is no difference if you lost your job to a foreigner or the implementation of hardware/sofware systems.
In the 1980's banks had to fire staff when new "smart systems' were implemented. Nowadays, most people don't even go into banks -- all done online.
Similarly, airline deregulation gave us cheap fares. Lot's of people were fired and those jobs are now HISTORY.
Very soon, robotics will become way cheaper, smarter and more reliable. Yes, many people will lose their jobs.
Driverless vehicles will be on the roads in 5-10 years. In some Rio Tinto minesites in Aust, robotic dump trucks work 24/7, controlled from a control room in Perth (several 1000 kms away). The $100+k per annum dump truck driver job is going, going...and soon gone. However the remote truck operators are on quite big money.
How can any rational person or govt expect the rest of society to "pick up the tab" for all these people who lost their jobs? And the job loss is mostly temporary -- new jobs are created, may be lower pay, maybe higher pay...who knows?
If yu drive a bus, truck or taxi, your days are numbered. If you don't own a car, soon you will be REJOICING -- you'll have access to driverless cars / taxis which don't even have to be parked, unless they are refuelling or charging. No more "midnight charge" shenanigans. Safer, faster, cheaper.
There is no more "job security". Get over it. The future is almost here.
Ganging up could mean political association or unions or some kind of organisations. What do you think the unions are for?
As for the way the foreigners are cheating the locals of jobs, this you must go down to ground level to see the truth. It is very ugly down there, and it is so pathetic that Sinkies are on the receiving ends and getting the shit and allowing it to happen. The daft Sinkies deserve to be wiped out if they dare not defend their rights in their own country.
This is no joking matter. It is a country going to the dogs. You can continue to disagree, but I still believe that when there is a country there is such thing called citizen and a govt to look after the citizens. If the govt forgets this, they deserved to be kicked out and I support the call to VTO any govt that betrays its people and sell out the people's interest. It is treason to do that.
@ RB:
>> What do you think the unions are for?
Collective bargaining. You are talking to an old union man -- the "real" type -- not the "talk cock only" type in Singapore because to strike is illegal -- who has organised picket lines, engaged in legal action against asshole employers, and have actually had people arrested for non payment of wages. My first mentor in Oz was the Secretary Of the Communist party. Although I'm a free market capitalist now, I'm one of those rare ones who supports unions. To this day, I am still a member, I still pay dues.
There is a time and place for collective union action -- like unsafe workplace, bosses witholding pay etc. However "demanding a job as a right" is not one of those cases, because bosses are entitled to spend THEIR MONEY in the best way -- in their estimation - to get the best return.
How can you justify holding a person -- conducting peaceful, lawful enterprise and his private property hostage to the demands of the mob? Get real.
If the bosses are allowed to choose what they buy and from whom, they are similarly allowed to hire who they want for what reason and offer any sum they see fit.
Similarly, you as a consumer (boss) can "hire and fire" any shop, contractor, maid etc. in accordance with your objectives. For e.g. some like Coke, some like Pepsi. You simply cannot in a FREE SOCIETY -- force people to drink what is not their choice, if they are spending their own money.
>> As for the way the foreigners are cheating the locals of jobs, this you must go down to ground level to see the truth.
What makes you think I haven't? AFAIK foreigners are not "cheating", apart from a few fake degree holders here and there. Most of them work diligently and are glad to have a job in a place like Singapore.
>> It is very ugly down there
"Ugly" for WHOM, exactly?
If so, how come the foreign labour doesn't seem to mind? If they can take it, how come wimped-out ENTITLED Singaporeans refuse to do so? Your argument simply doesn't gel. Sorry.
>> If the govt forgets this, they deserved to be kicked out and I support the call to VTO any govt that betrays its people and sell out the people's interest.
Hey man, I along with many of my fellow citizens are also "The People", and we happen to agree with the globalization of a cosmopolitan Singapore. What makes your world-view right, and mine wrong?
Sure, everyone has the right to vote how they want. Throw out the PAP govt? Sure, go ahead. Your choice at the ballot is your business. Go for it. Note: I've stopped voting. If required by law, I will spoil my vote. I simply don't want, ever again to Encourage The Bastards :-))
>> It is treason to do that.
Please lah. You're being hyperbolic/ hysterical again.
Let's see what happens at the next GE. If the govt is doing the right thing and the majority is benefitting from its policies, it will still be around.
If it is the other way, we will have a new govt.
That will be the truth. No need to sweat the small stuff.
I'm merely doing the most obvious thing -- take the easiest way out'.
Looks like Matilah is no different from other Singaporean PMEs he criticises for wanting the 'easy way out' of their unemployed situation. The only difference is that he can AFFORD to migrate whilst his fellow Singaporeans can't; back to individual circumstances. Not all are given equal opportunities at birth and therefrom the Matthew effects kicks in. Yes, there are exceptional instances; I consider mine to be. But this must not detract from the fact that those who are unable to must be given support to realise possibilities BEFORE the easier way of importing foreigners liberally, not least because of the social, cultural and integrational consequences of such immigration policies. Like all things, there is a price to pay for 'taking the easy way out'. Matilah is grateful for those who helped him, gave him a chance. Is he also prepared to give some of these PMEs 'with attitude' a chance? Like him I am also grateful for the opportunities afforded me which were not available in Singapore. Like him I took my chances abroad at great risk and great cost, only to realise that government policies do make a difference both for locals and 'foreigners' like me. Properly developed countries are what might be called 'second (or even third) chance' countries. This is what Singapore at least owes to its loyal, NS-served citizens.
BTW Matliah offes a very interesting checklist for Singapore PMEs which includes the following:
8. Be nice to everyone in the real world. Greet strangers. Smile. be polite. Say "please" and "thank you" (very few people act this way in Singapore -- sadly)
Do do "road rage" -- let it go. Don't shove on the MRT, let it go. Don't fight with neighbours, let it go. Whatever you can let go, let the fuck go
I wonder if he practices what he preaches? But maybe that is expecting too much!
@sardonic 424:
>> I wonder if he practices what he preaches? maybe that is expecting too much!
Yes, too much expectation. I'm human, I've moods. I’m imperfect. Who can be 100% perfect 100% of the time?
Here’s a breakdown of the points you raised: I ALWAYS say "please" and "thank you", no if's no but's. I NEVER do road rage now (30 years ago, yes) -- why endanger myself? Anyway, I own firearms. If I’m charged an offence which clearly displays I can’t control my temper – goodbye gun licenses. No way, I love my guns too much ;-) In Oz, strangers greet and smile at each other. How much does it cost? NOTHING.
On "letting go": Most things are simply "minor annoyances", so just let that shit go.
However things you cannot "let go" require action e.g.: someone being cruel to an animal, or abusing kids – those require appropriate responses.
>> Is he also prepared to give some of these PMEs 'with attitude' a chance?
Of course! Good people are VERY hard to find. The "easy way out" is to get the best people possible. Consider the opposite case where you get the worst people...how do you reckon that story ends?
>> Matilah is no different from other Singaporean PMEs he criticises for wanting the 'easy way out' of their situation.
Sure, I'll cop that. But "wanting" something and "achieving" it are different things.
I had lots of support. But I built up those personal relationships previously. Those PMEs I criticise (your words) expect The Ugly Govt to “help” them. Did they build up solid relationships previously? I don't know. You want the answer? ASK THEM ;-)
>> The only difference is that he can AFFORD to migrate whilst his fellow Singaporeans can't;
Can afford? Yes, barely...I came here after ROD (22 yrs old) with very little money (those days exchange rate SGD 2.8 to AUD 1). I slept on friends' couches. My first shitty car cost $500. I worked weekends.
>> Not all are given equal opportunities at birth and therefrom the Matthew effects kicks in.
Our universe is impersonal, unfair, and probabilistic--it doesn't care about anyone. It rewards and punishes for no reason.
Smart political con artists frequently use the "Equality" word to garner support, then POWER. Good luck to you if you believe that nonsense :-)
The rich, if they are good stewards, will get richer. Most of the poor, will stay poor or go down further. The Matthew Effect, as well as Gravity are FACTS. The only (lame but obvious) solution I can offer is try not to fall from great heights, and do what you can to improve your circumstance if you’re broke.
Some people believe "the govt can/ has an obligation to help me". I'm not one of those people :-)
>> I took my chances abroad at great risk and great cost, only to realise that government policies do make a difference both for locals and 'foreigners' like me.
It is very difficult to escape from ALL the effects of govt policies on your personal life. If you like "good policies" but hate "bad policies" think and do what you will.
For me, I try to avoid "govt effects" as best I can. I don't trust governments-- not ONE IOTA.
I prefer LOW TAXES -- i.e. pay the least amount of "protection money" to the gangsters.
On NS: NS (conscription) is govt force. Every male is forced into it by LAW. Like Section 377A and the CPF Act, the NS Enlistment Act are BAD LAWS and should be repealed. (fat chance!)
My 2¢ "advice": Do the NS (easier than going to jail), then let it go. Don't so needy/ greedy that you "expect" something in return because, by definition, that would make you dangerously close to becoming ENTITLED ;-)
Don't talk cock. What you done then was like the economic refugees coming here because their countries were in a mess and could not give them good jobs.
Today we have a rich country with millions of jobs. Why give to economic refugees and not to your citizens?
Your thinking is fuck! But can be expected from people without a country. Singaporeans must take back this country and not to give it up to foreigners.
Wake up Sinkies. This is your country and you have every right to demand to have a piece of the pie instead of letting the pie go to foreigners. How silly to pay foreigners in the millions to pluck the fruits we planted for 50 years.
@ mixing his durians with nagkas and cannot tell the difference Redbean:
>> What you done then was like the economic refugees coming here because their countries were in a mess and could not give them good jobs.
"Economic refugees" is a specific term given to illegal immigrants. Except for the mass of Geylang street-walkers on tourist visas, the foreigners working in Singapore -- from labourer to maid to CEO are all in Singapore LEGALLY, and employed in LEGITIMATE enterprises. i.e. they are not, by definition in LAW (remember, the "rule of law" ?) "economic refugees".
So who's "talking cock"? (your words) .
>> Why give to economic refugees and not to your citizens?
Uuhh...because some of the imports appear to be "better value"? I don't know. I don't know and I don't give a fuck actually. Bosses can hire who they want -- so you'd better ask them ;-)
>> Wake up Sinkies. This is your country and you have every right to demand to have a piece of the pie instead of letting the pie go to foreigners.
Stay cool Singapore! You have the right to demand to share your homeland and invite folks to be a part of the Great Big Awesome Party.
Redbean has yet to answer the question:
what makes his worldview "right" and mine "wrong"?
Silence. Typical.
You suffering from dyslexia also?
I wrote to wait for the next GE for the result.
@ I still don't get it Redbean:
Are you deaf as well as dumb?
I told you time and again that I don't care about elections or voting. ;-)
Singapore, stay awesome and rocking!
Ok, so you win lah.
@ passive-aggressive gamer Redbean:
No, no. Please. You must be the winner. It is so obvious. So crystal clear. (It never occurred to me we were having a "contest". This must be a cultural thing on RB's part -- everything also must "fight")
Allow me to be the one to free you of the hostility you desperately try to hide. It's ok, let it out... It's healthy...if you keep it in, it will explode and you might end up kicking a puppy and making a child cry...we don't want that now, do we?
Good yah? To be a winner, that is...
Wah you so generous. Cannot provoke lah. Better take your medicine ok.
There are so many things that, like you said, are opinions. Why arguing until face green green?
I just enjoy posting to make people cracking their brains out. Don't squeeze too hard, not much juice left: )
@ not-satisfy ah? RB:
Wah, uncle, still want to twist and turn ah? You no satisfy izzit? Win orleidi, go in grace lah.
Why spoil the moment?
Haha........
Reading the exchanges here between
Redbean and Matilah is like re-reading the Duel between Thrasymachus and Socrates in Plato's Republic(those interested can read it upin the Internet). It is extremely interesting as the Intellectuals expostulate their understandings of living.
Do keep at it philosophically rather than emotional or (too)scientific.
Humans are sentient beings and luckily are also reasonable beings.
patriot
@patriot:
I'm glad you enjoy the entertainment. However I take exception to comparison with the great Greeks: Thrasymachus and Socrates.
IMO it is 1 apek (me) trying to reason and the other apek (he-whose-name-shall-not-be said) turning it into a fight -- you'll find several references.
Have you seek 2 uncles fight at the kopitiam? It is fucking hilarious. Both of them think they're Jackie Chan :-))
Similarly, the protests at HL are full of aunties and uncles brimming with piss and anger. C'mon lah, they have no idea how silly they look and I don't blame any of the youngsters for laughing their balls off at them.
But this is the internet. Fighting is ok and to be expected. I, for one enjoy it ;-)
At your age still got the word fighting in your vocabulary?
Now who is the Ah pek thinking he is Jackie Chan? I only type with my fingers. Ah Pek must know that he is Ah Pek, no more thinking of fighting. Leave that to those Ah Pek still thinking Jacky Chan to fight. Tok gong ya : )
They sent a divisional director of a MNC in supply chain for training to become a waiter.
@1000:
Good for him. At least he has the common sense to do what is necessary.
Who knows, one day waiter, in a year restaurant owner? Quite possible, he has the management training, and the experience.
He might start a restaurant and be the one to hire out of work PMEs.
There are 2 kinds of people in the economy:
1. Those who create jobs and hire
2. Those who are looking for jobs
The division director showed them the middle finger plus a lot of expletives.
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