This is what Swee Say said and I fully agree with him. Setting a minimum
wage is a zero sum game. When you have to make sure the low level
workers be paid a minimum wage that is higher than what they are
getting, it affects the overall payroll. With a cake of fixed size, the
rest will have less to share.
I dunno if this same logic applies to the high pay and bonuses of top
management. Is it also a zero sum game, that when they are paid so much,
the low level workers must get less. Zero sum game is like that. The
total sum is fixed, and when someone gets more, someone must get less.
But there are exceptions. In some circumstances, the top can get as much
as they want without affecting the zero sum game formula, because the
cake can be blown bigger if the supply of income is unlimited. Talented
top management would know how to ensure that the money coming in is
always growing and so it is alright if they are paid millions and
millions. It would not affect what the low level workers would be paid.
Tiok boh? The zero sum game formula thus does not apply.
What do you think?
ReplyDeleteEach time when I patronised hawker centre, I always feel sad whenever I come across local senior cleaning uncles and aunties.
I feel sad for them because they are really paid peanuts, their pays are very miserable, ask them, they will tell you.
Please start appreciating them and start rewarding them with higher pay......with off day!.....
If you increase their pay you have to decrease the top managers pay. How can?
ReplyDelete"Talented top management would know how to ensure that the money coming in is always growing..."
ReplyDeleteRB
Actually not necessary top management lah, just talented will do. Of course talented to be able to make lots of money lah.
No use being talented to write or draw very well but cannot even make enough, let alone lots of money, tio bo?
Or even talented (due to years of experience driving trains) but got terminated also no use, tio bo?
So better to be own boss to make equivalent $5K or $6K per month driving taxis lah.
And if graduates and professionals don't mind being one, why can't 'O' or 'A'level former train drivers?
And even if PAP is voted out, most taxi drivers will still remain as taxi drivers and full time bloggers as bloggers, tio bo?
"And even if PAP is voted out, most taxi drivers will still remain as taxi drivers..."
ReplyDeleteAnon 10:33 am
Not necessary. If these taxi drivers contest, win and PAP voted out in next election, they may even become ministers in a non-PAP govt.
Hahahahahaha
ReplyDeletewhat wrong being a taxi driver when they can earn $4000.00 to $7000.00 a month if they work hard and don't have the gambling hobbies.....
I lately in copishops overheard countlless comments that life is really bad at this critical juncture...many r living on past saving if they have... most r struggling on bread n butters ... going forward its gonna get worst before it get better ...
ReplyDeleteThink rite now business is v good ...I mean for sg pools , casinos , pawnshops n pornshops , moneylenders , ah long , clinics n hospitals (due to no money illness n stress) .
明天会更好吗?我不知道 , 问你妈吧。
... that life is really bad at this critical juncture...
ReplyDelete11:07 am
But 43% still voted PAP even in Jan this year.
If their life is really bad, why they still vote PAP in a by election, you tell me ah.
If by election 43% voted PAP, then for sure PAP will get at least 43% in a general election, tio bo?
ReplyDeleteSo PAP just need to get another 17% as new citizens in order to win 60% (43+17) in next election lah, tio bo?
With 6.9M target, should be no problem, tio bo?
ReplyDeleteanonymous 11.07am ......
You are correct to say that many people are struggling and are living on past savings.
But, pls note that bread and butters are no more cheap in singapore.
Voting for PAP is a zero sum game.
ReplyDeleteWhy?
Because no matter how hard you work, the blood suckers will find new ways to make you pay & pay.
Why argue with Swee Say when he says "minimum wage is a zero sum game"?
Just vote Opposition.
That is how I will debate with Swee Say.
I vote in Opposition MPs to discuss with Swee Say in parliament about minimum wages.
After parliamentary debate, we then have a parliamentary vote to decide on minimum wage.
So you see.
This type of discussion is more productive.
Things get decided and done.
No need to NatCon for one year.
People are blessed differently, some with riches, some with good look, some like RB to be a good blogger, some like some anonymous here to be frustrated by RB but keep coming back for more.,
ReplyDeleteAnd there is Matilah who is sane one moment and insane the next.
Count your blessing dude, even if you are good for nothing but born to irritate others. It is still a blessing.
Carry on with your good work RB. And carry on irritating the useless irritants.
Just vote Opposition.
ReplyDeleteAnon 11:17 am
Too bad lah, you are the 40%, so you lose lah.
@ October 25, 2013 11:22 am
ReplyDeleteYes, you 60%. So you win.
So win already, what are you doing here?
Fuck off already.
This blog is for sore losers of GE 2011.
...many r living on past saving if they have... most r struggling on bread n butters ...
ReplyDelete11:07 am
Also not possible to have 100% happy and money enough lah, tio bo? If can get 60%, very good already.
I have to agree with Swee Say here.
ReplyDeleteA free and open labour market is the most fair and just system.
The minimum wage is discriminatory. E.G. lets say the minimum wage is $10. That means employers will only hire those who's productivity is deemed to be $10 or greater. Those who are less capable -- say $5 productivity -- are OUT of the market and remain UNEMPLOYED.
If you run your own business, often -- especially at the start and in lean times -- your wage is NEGATIVE -- i.e. you end up paying to work.
If you want to earn more, make yourself WORTH more.
There you are . Free advice. Now go buy redbean a kopi. He needs the caffeine so he can gather his thoughts to tekan me :)
If I don't tekan you how to get kopi from you. Isn't it nice spending OPM? Spend and spend and can be generous like hell but never hurt the pocket. Money safe and intact. And if I make it compulsory no one will complain as I don't touch their savings.
ReplyDeleteI have no design on your money: )
Yes RB, there is no need to be thrifty when spending other people's money. 3 kopi kau kau for you. Not enough just say so. No need to be shy. I am very generous with other people's money.
ReplyDelete@October 25, 2013 11:57am
ReplyDelete"I am very generous with other people's money."
Are you from the PAP gahmen?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11.57 am .......
I really like your phase:
"I am very generous with other people's money"
Cheers......
At times like this, I would like to see more unions speak up. Do they agree with their labour chief on his min wage statement.
ReplyDeleteI often wonder whether this labour chief really work for the workers or have their interest at heart!
One big, glaring problem in Hotel Singapore is that there are no independent unions.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first came to Oz as a recently discharged NS man, I got involved with the Australian Labour and Union movement. One of the people I admired, a mentor and a guy who helped me alot was Secretary to the Australian Communist Party. I've marched with my union brothers and sisters, picketed, sang "we shall overcome" and even banged a few of those hippie bitches -- the one's you meet at rallies.
So even as a hard-boiled capitalist, I still hold a soft spot for the unions, and champion their importance in the realm of free trade. Human capital must balance money capital (and vice versa) otherwise there is every chance it could turn into a mess. It's a dynamic relationship. If you have too much capital power, labour gets crushed. If there's too much labour power, capital gets lost or takes flight somewhere else.
Lee Kuan Yew was wrong to get rid of the unions and replace the lot with NTUC. Now NTUC itslef has morphed into a capitalist enterprise, and cartel.
Like I said -- this is WRONG.
The truth of the matter is if lower wage workers are paid more, those at the top will get less. They have to look after their astronomical salaries lah! What do they care about the lower wage workers. They can import more if they want to.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure how many out there still think this guy has any credibility to start with and what he says mean anything. He came across as a complete shameless idiot that shame the entire concept of labour union and turning this country into another sweat shop like any ahneh countries where low caste people are mistreated and abused because they do not know how to organise themselves and demand for better treatments, pay and working conditions. When people lose this concept and culture, the elites will continue to exploit the people - cutting benefits and pay while they pay themselves more and more. It is a step backward from civilisation.
ReplyDelete@ b @ October 25, 2013 4:06 pm
ReplyDelete"He came across as a complete shameless idiot ... "
You think PAP has an unlimited pool of talent is it?
I think their talent pool is actually very shallow and limited.
Lim Swee Say is their best available talent for this job.
After LSS is Tin Pei Ling already.
It does not get any better than this.
ReplyDeleteIt was really shocking to me to note from an article in the "The Heart Truths" blog stating that 26% Of Singaporeans Live Below Poverty Line In Singapore .....I thought all this while that we are doing very very ok....
If the 26% is correct, then it is very sad sad sad.....
With such high cost of living, with so many bills to pay, many will fall into poverty. Worse are those with many children and parents are odd job labourers or only one parent working.
ReplyDeleteSome of the economic policies of the G since 1990 are probably "immoral", "evil" and "detrimental" to the common folks on the street in the long term. Arguably, even the middle class is likely to be very much affected.
ReplyDeleteAfter letting asset prices "inflate" exponentially since the early 1990s through the so called Asset Enhancement policy, opening the flood gate of both blue and white collars jobs effectively means the real wages of these people are almost surely going to stagnate as compare to overall price increase and in particular increases in gargantuan ticket items such as housing and vehicles.
Even without a super talent's talents, it is rather a no brainer to know that in the end, all the so called "surplus and deficit" $$$$$$$$ of majority of its people would likely get sucked by the G like a GIANT vacuum machine. No?
All these policies superficially at first look benefit this city-state's economic needs but long term, it is likely to prove myopic.
The people now are literally trapped between a big ROCK and a super HARD PLACE. To allow the policies to continue unfestered means majority of the people would eventually be literally living in "Hell and High Water". There is arguably no escape. To change this government via the ballot box would likely result in substantial impasse in the first few years if such an eventuality takes place.
What are the options?
The G arguably is playing a game of chicken with majority of its people ultimately. If ever the people can somehow get through the final reckoning by turning this place around, it would likely still imply huge, painful adjustment during the transition which is highly likely a fairly long period of time.
Some people keep insisting how good this place is and that Sinkies are nuts to complain so much.
The ultimate reality cannot be further from the truth. No matter how well this place is built, imagine a very classy, shiny bottle filled with a lot of luxury living. Add to it a huge quantity of rats cramped inside with hardly any room even to stretch its elbow or leg. And to exacerbate the problem, within this finite, fixed size area, more rats are crammed in day by day, year by year with another 40% increase.
Would you think the rats crammed inside this luxurious bottle would have any proper living at all and would thank the perpetrators of such an inhuman disregard for basic human needs? Would the rats not be clawing at each other endlessly in such an environment day in day out? Any decent human dwelling in this place in the long haul making a living disputing such a fact is probably lying through his teeth, every single strand of hair on his body and every single pore in it.
Whichever new govt taking over will have to do a lot of amputations as the gangrene has affected the whole body. The legs and arms would have to go first. It would be very painful and hurtful. There is no way out of this self inflicted economic malaise.
ReplyDeleteAnd they are laying the red carpet for Sinkie scientists overseas to return. They forgot to tell them that to live here they need to put up a couple of million outfront for a decent place to stay and a couple of hundred thousand for cars.
Would they return to pour money into this hole just to contribute to our economy when they could live in sprawling homes and cheap automobiles overseas? And not to forget, if they cannot afford private cars, there is always the possibility of being spat at in public transportation, or enjoy the smell and the crush of very gracious workers from the third world.
It would be quality living of a differnt kind to pay for in the millions.
"And they are laying the red carpet for Sinkie scientists overseas to return."
ReplyDeleteredbean
returning Sinkie scientist not so stupid.
They are negotiating for service apartments at the Four Seasons.
They know that there is no loyalty in their employment contract if they return to Singapore and fail to deliver what the MIWs want.
The returning Sinkie scientists have an informal support group where they teach each other how to extract good employment terms from the PAPig gahmen.
If they are smart enuff to leave S'pore and succeed overseas.
They are smart enuff to know what type of system they are returning to.
Like Grace Fu, they will remind PM Lee of the sacrifices of serving the nation.
Minimum wage is a 'zorro' sum game would be more appropriate.
ReplyDelete