Many countries are signing military alliances with the Americans and having war games with the Americans, practicing how to conduct joint attacks against American’s enemy countries. The war games sound so innocent, like playing computer games but actually a preparation for war, to attack and invade
Not many people are thinking about the significance of war games and military alliances with the Americans. Duterte is standing up to enlighten the unthinking about military alliances and war games. Signing military alliances with the Americans is as good as signing up your enemies, identifying your enemies and declaring to your enemies that they are your enemies. And conducting war games is now very clear. It is about attacking and invading your enemy countries.
The Americans are practicing to conduct war with their allies. And when the Americans go to war, the allies will be part of the American coalition of invaders. And all the soldiers and military hardware of the allied countries would come under the American command. Now it makes sense why they sell weapons to their allies. They did not only make money from it, the weapons would be used eventually to fight on the side of the Americans.
Duterte did not want any of it. Duterte did not want to sign up enemy countries. Duterte did not want to antagonize other countries by conducting war games against them. A friendly country does not keep provoking its neighbours by conducting war games and signing military alliances that said we are your enemy.
Why would countries preach peace, but sign military alliances, conduct regular war games and sell military weapons everywhere? For peace?
Now the Philippines are being threatened by the Americans to honour their treaty obligations. If not more pressure will be exerted on ‘abuses’ especially on human rights and killings of drug lords and peddlars. The Americans are also threatening to rein in the purse strings, ie, no more aids, no more antique warships for the Phi8lippines. Can the Philippines get out of the military treaty signed? It is a case of you can say you want out but you just cannot leave, once you are in?
One funny question to ask, who had invaded the Philippines and colonized the Philippines in the past? China! Wrong, idiot. Next. China! Wrong again, stupid. The first country that invaded and colonized the Philippines was Spain. The next country was the USA. The Americans did the same, conquered and colonized the Philippines. Anymore? It’s Japan. The Japanese also conquered and colonized the Philippines and in the process massacred hundreds of Pinoys like the Spaniards and the American invaders. And some daft Pinoys are asking the Japanese and the Americans, their colonial masters and murderers of their forefathers, to protect them from China!
Has China ever invaded and colonized the Philippines?
Politic is about lies. What we see up front may not be the real reasons behind. The invasion of Iraq still a mystery.
ReplyDeleteThe invasions of Iraq and Libya are no longer mysteries. The two dictators were working out a scheme to trade oil not in US dollar. They must be taken out or the US dollar would become waste papers.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately for the Americans, the US dollar that is basically a piece of worthless paper would still turn into its real form, waste paper.
With the Yuan becoming an international currency, now accepted by IMF as one of the reserved currencies for drawing rights, the fate of the US dollar is sealed.
Has China ever invaded and colonized the Philippines?
ReplyDeleteRB
No lah, of course. But the Philippines is rich in resources. This is what China may be looking at. And knowing Duterte, China is financing to build drug rehabilitation centres to help the Philippines.
You know China went to Myanmar, Africa and even Vietnam for their natural resources. And because China got so much resources from Africa, they even built whole townships there but let it be deserted because Africans cannot afford!
Nothing is free and good in this world lah, RB.
// Has China ever invaded and colonized the Philippines? //
ReplyDeleteTiok.
Has China ever invaded and colonized Singapore?
If not, then who provided the opportunity for economic refugees from China to escape starvation by coming to Singapore?
Did LKY founded Singapore?
Or was it Stamford Raffles?
So who is Singapore's daddy?
LKY or Stamford Raffles?
ReplyDeleteDont play play with China!
China is the new mega economic power!
If you "friend friend" with them, they may give you a bit of the cake!
Want to fill stomach or con't with your war games?
You decide.......you choose!
A lot of people think that the reason the USG go to war is for natural resources. That may be partly correct. But the main reason is to spread democracy and human rights, the USG is also driven by ideology. But democracy simply cannot work in areas with a tribal mindset. They were doomed to failure from the start.
ReplyDeleteI prefer China's way of doing things it is far more pragmatic.
The white man NGO have an anti-development, anti-good, pro-Islam, pro-satan, pro-shit, pro-gay, pro-feminist, pro-black agenda.
ReplyDeleteIf you kill 3000 drug lords (assuming some innocent are killed), you may save 100,000 life in 10 years, who will die in cross fire, kidnap, drug abuse, gang fight....etc. Backward society like philippines has no resource or institution of modern society to be surgical accurate in targeting criminals.
The blunt way is the best way forward. Else the society cannot move at all.
White man elites and Jews knew that exactly. All these NGO are saboter of 3rd world countries.
So who is Singapore's daddy?
ReplyDeleteLKY or Stamford Raffles?
10:05 am
I think should be Stamford Raffles lah. Because of Raffles, heng ah, Singapore has not become another state of Malaysia like Penang, Sabah and Sarawak.
And because of Tunku Abdul Rahman, Singapore was expelled from Malaysia to become independent in 1965. It was not that LKY want Singapore to be independent, u know. LKY even cried when Singapore became independent!
I do not think USA is there to spread democracy and BTW white man international code of conduct is enshrine is Westphalia, sovereignty above all.
ReplyDeleteThe post westphalian model have big problems. Democracy and human right was prioritized over sovereignty, which was then abused by USA imperialist.
For example Libya and Iraq, was better with Saddam and Gaddaffi. The intervention of USA to promote democracy in Libya and Syria was manifested as a pretext, and in reality, the true intention is to roll back humanity and democracy for allowing Sunni scum to take power.
Ya, western style government cannot work for the phillipines, they need a legalist system. The white man only managed to progress by killing off a lot of its criminal population. This reduction in undesirable dna over the course of the centuries is the reason why western society is more functional.
ReplyDeleteBut not killing criminals you are retarding the eugenic process by allowing criminals to pass on their DNA.
The white man society ever prevalence of parasitic NGO is results of capital supremacy and manipulation over political power. NGO is there to paralyzed the state machine using lofty tenets, which is impossible even for a modern society to achieve.
ReplyDeleteNGOs are LIAR. For example, today NGO slam China using coal for destruction of environment. In reality, coal is the BIGGEST PROTECTION of environment. When coal was not there earlier, the result is massive deforestation, a even worse air pollution due to burning wood. Coal in reality result to massive conservation of forest.
Imagine a thought scenario when China abandon coal in favor of fire wood. FUcking NGO will cry foul over deforestation.
In short, the best thing for NGO is that everyone in 3rd world country remain as a cave man.
DeleteUnfortunately, NGOs and
VWOs are allowed in PRC and many Oversea Chinese are in cahoot with Aliens of mostly Whites to spread Christianity, the English/ American Language and Western Cultures into China and other parts of the World.
The Indigenous Folks of all sovereign countries got to beware of these missions in the Disguises of Democracy and Freedom.
patriot
ReplyDeletelt should not be forgotten that the British did try to destroy the Chinese by getting the Latter addicted to OPIUM.
The Brits themselves did not consume the Drug.
And now the White is stopping President Duterte to wean the Pinoy from drugs.
Ex Thai Prime Minister Thaksin was
the First to rid Thailand of Drug Lords and he got into trouble. lt is not too farfetch to suspect that he
was a victim of the White too.
The Thais and Pinoys should learn the Lesson of the Chinese.
patriot
RB has a little under estimate China maritime supremacy and Chinese involvement in Philippines. Below is Chinese armada and their invasion of Java, -- year 1293.
ReplyDeleteIn reality Chinese has set up states in Philippines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Java
The Mongol invasion of Java was a military effort made by Kublai Khan, founder of the Yuan dynasty (one of the fragments of the Mongol Empire), to invade Java, an island in modern Indonesia. In 1293, he sent a large invasion fleet to Java with 20,000 to 30,000 soldiers.
Lycurgus80ofsparta said...
ReplyDeleteA lot of people think that the reason the USG go to war is for natural resources. That may be partly correct. But the main reason is to spread democracy and human rights, the USG is also driven by ideology
What nonsense are you uttering? And here another one.
Lycurgus80ofsparta said...
Ya, western style government cannot work for the phillipines, they need a legalist system. The white man only managed to progress by killing off a lot of its criminal population.
If you cannot understand the nonsense you are writing, one, the US is doing everything for the sake of the Empire, to rule the world. Is that so difficult to understand?
And the criminals that they killed, massacred, asked them if the natives they slaughtered by the millions when they invaded and conquered their land were criminals? The Red Indians, the African negro slaves, the Latin American natives, the natives of Africa and Asia, the natives of Philippines and Indonesia, they were criminals? The natives of NZ and Australias were criminals that needed to be killed?
Whahahhahhhahahhahhha. Please lah.
Regarding Thaksin, what do you guys think about the coup against him ? Was it organised by western intelligence ? If so, what would be their interest there ?
ReplyDelete
DeleteThaksin was not friendly with the US. He was apparently more friendly with China much like Mahathir of Malaysia.
The US of course would like to have Thailand as an ally to reinforce the
encirclement of China.
lf it(US) succeeds, the Encirclement would be more complete.
patriot
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe Chinese pirate Koxinga 郑成功 alone, using his pirate forces are able to take Taiwan from Dutch. He died before his expedition against Philippines. If Koxinga has his way, today philippines may belong to China.
ReplyDeleteThe territorial gain of Taiwan in favor of China is Koxinga's work.
In 1662, Koxinga's Chinese forces raided several towns in the Philippines and demanded tribute from the Spanish colonial government, threatening to attack Manila if his demands were not met. The Spanish refused to pay the tribute and reinforced the garrisons around Manila, but the planned attack never took place due to Koxinga's sudden death in that year after expelling the Dutch on Taiwan.
Koxinga's threat to invade the Philippines and expel the Spanish resulted in the Spanish failure to conquer the Islamic Moro people in Mindanao. The threat of Chinese invasion forced the Spanish to stop their conquest of the Moros and withdraw their garrisons to Manila. Koxinga's death resulted in the invasion being cancelled. The Spanish retreated occurred in 1663. Zamboanga and Mindanao became devoid of Spanish soldiers after the Chinese threat against Manila. The Chinese threat effectively destroyed the Spanish plan to conquer and colonize the Moros in Zamboanga. Governor Bobadilla was the one who conducted the evacuation. Mindanao was just about to be colonised by Christians before Koxinga's planned conquest of the Philippines destroyed the entire Spanish plan to conquer Mindanao. Iligan and Zamboanga were given up by the Spanish.
yes, you are probably right. They are using democracy just as an excuse for moral justification.
ReplyDeleteWasted la if Konxiga suceeded we'd have a Ming dynasty state in the phillipines!
ReplyDeleteRestore the Ming dynasty!
Gas the machus, race war now!
There is a need to study China and SE Asia history carefully that PAP and post colonial government denied to us.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, China could have taken SE Asia.
We missed it.
//////////////
ReplyDeleteRegarding Thaksin, what do you guys think about the coup against him ? Was it organised by western intelligence ? If so, what would be their interest there ?
/////////////
Thaksin was pro China. USA hate him.
Thaksin was too powerful. Thailand is in reality a psedo absolute monarchy. The Royal hate him.
DeleteConcur with Veritas.
patriot
But even if China could settle a lot of colonist in south east asia, my gut feeling is that they like the vietnamese would break away from imperial rule and establish their own dynasty.
ReplyDeleteThe IQ of south east asia would certainly be higher. And confucian traditions be more widespread in south east asia, just like in vietnam. But i doubt that it would remain as one political entity.
No wonder Thailand has become a heaven for western sex tourist. It is the sexual colonization of Thailand. So much for democracy, Thaksin won by popular vote but when he was overthrowed there was no NGos protesting.
ReplyDelete/// In reality Chinese has set up states in Philippines.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Java
The Mongol invasion of Java was a military effort made by Kublai Khan, founder of the Yuan dynasty (one of the fragments of the Mongol Empire), to invade Java, an island in modern Indonesia. ///
October 07, 2016 10:39 am
Since when are Mongolians regarded as Han Chinese?
Since when was the Yuan Dynasty regarded as a Chinese Dynasty?
Mongolians were conquerors and warriors.
Mongolians terrorized the Europeans all the way to the gates of Austria.
Han Chinese were slaves of the Chinese Emperors.
Spent a couple of centuries working as slaves to build the Great Wall of China to hide from Mongolain warriors.
Stupid, these are Han mercenary.
ReplyDeleteMongol and Manchu conquest of China use mostly Han mercenary.
i doubt Chinese influence over south east Asia would change anything in the long run. South east asia used to be heavily influenced by indian culture. But now only Bali has managed to retain a bit of that culture.
ReplyDeleteThe SE Asian has traditional affinity to Chinese culture. And Vietnam is a successful example of Confucian expansion in SE Asia.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Taiwan is another example (Malay being Confucianized)
Chinese is not imperialistic. We do not try to evangelized our culture.
The civilization change of SE Asia is volatile. If we have maintain the maritime supremacy, defeating white man, SE Asian may be confucius ocean.
The weakening of our maritime power gave Islam and white man a chance to spread their culture.
With a few exceptions, the rules of the Mongols and the Manchus, the Chinese Empire or the territories of China expanded/contracted around the peripherals of the land mass. The Chinese did not have designs to conquer other lands outside the Chinese 天下.
ReplyDeleteThe expeditions of Zheng He spoke clearly of the Chinese intent and their respect of other countries and their rights to exist independently. The West have been distorting this truth and many silly Asians, especially of Chinese origins, are also spreading this myth. I just wrote a piece on ending this stupid western myth.
Singapore is the biggest culprit with the most silly pricks singing the American/western myth. You can read them in the msm almost daily. Know your history, know your facts and not be misled by western myths.
Don't be a banana that got confused with its own colour, not sure it is white or yellow.
@Chua more lies again?
DeleteHan and Ming Invasions of Vietnam.
Sui Invasion of Korea.
Song Invasion of Liao.
Qin invasion of Bashu.
Tang invasion into Central Asia.
Only thing was China never developing mercantalism never saw a need for a merchant marine and a navy.
Zheng He certainly did not recognise or respect other nations. Of course not.
ALL were subordinate to the Son of Heaven. Chinese historians regard recognising other rulers as equals to be humuliating.
Also. So much racism on this site. So are you a racist or you just like them?
Koxinga war is personal effort not an act of Chinese state. Koxinga in essence is a pirate.
ReplyDeleteSingapore is the biggest culprit with the most silly pricks singing the American/western myth.
ReplyDeleteRB 11:54 am
Doesn't matter lah, as long as Singapore(read PAP)leaders have the strong majority support of Singapore voters.
With this strong support, how can Singapore leaders be silly pricks? Or are you implying majority Singapore voters are even more silly pricks? Like it takes for a greater fool to be conned by a fool?
RB raised alert of an interesting issue Duterte faces. From reports, Philippines are to allow US navy to use its ports as and when, where ever they want. Philippines govt must act in accordance to US s advices. US gives Philippines $180 millions aids. We knew $33 millions already used on acquiring the Judgment of "international laws" against china.
ReplyDeleteThe future is a problem: Philippines want to buy certain weapons, but US refuse to sell. Duterte said Russia was willing to sell all the requested weapons.
Obama left with 4 months to go, will not bother with Duterte, as Hillary is likely to take over. So Duterte is likely to taret taret so that he can get cheaper prices for the weapons from US.
From Taiwan s reports. Taiwan paid for outdated US weapons at more expensive prices. This is the real US Allied s consequence. Taiwan cannot buy other s weapons. It cannot develop powerful weapons like nuclear. U can see the future is stuck.
The Philippines FM, frequently said after Duterte s hash words, that Philippines does not want to be US s "little brother". Philippines wants to have "independent" foreign policy. From the FM s words and Duterte s fire phases, we can know Philippines politicians are very unhappy. So Obama wants to stop Philippines to clean up drugs pushers on the streets was taken as a way to colonize Philippines again.
Who does not agree that drug is a way to rule a foreign country?
China had fought the Opium War with the western countries. And lost HK to UK after the war.
Drug is deep inside many US s colonies. Taiwan especially the southern parts are heavily affected by drug pushers on streets due to their loose legal punishment.
US wants Philippines to follow its carriers to patrol Scs with Japan is pushing Philippines into war front with China.
US s carriers are monitored by China s satellites which can image object of 50m, while Carriers are 300m long. And DF21D are programmed to be guided by the satellites. This is reported in mass media, no secret. If Philippines wants to follow US s carriers, they will be the targets.
That i think is a reason Duterte does not want to be the war front dead lamb. Of course, the Japanese are not afraid of dying, and one little country also willing to do so. But US carriers never carried out the promised of ensuring " freedom of navigations" by patrolling at Scs every 3 months. Why? Its already 5 months passes.
That can be a good reason for Duterte to panic. How to rely on US? Will US support Philippines when pinoys attack Huangyen dao, the island near Philippines, but owned by China s 9 dashlines, but declared illegal by the Judgment?
If readers look at the US s chicken out behavior, there is reason to understand Duterte s needs. What?
From Duterte s fire words to US, I think Duterte wants to buy powerful weapons. He wants Philippines to be a regional power similar to Indon. Not dependent on US. Jokowi and Duterte have some similarity. They are independent of US in minds.
Bear in mind. Malaysia is also using Russian jets.
Indon is having a war game at Naturna island to declare it owns Naturna island. Jokowi is there. U know, Indon has Su 35 and other Su su.. jets. These are real jets can bomb, not the US jets that cannot (according to Mahathia).
Philippines wants to be like Indon, not with straps on its neck.
Allied with US is like the attack dogs of US, what Philippines did in the past, to get into a "legal" issue, but US lacks the power to implement against China. A country future is spoiled by US s interest. US dies, these countries also kena kicks aside in future.
Better pray for US s USD will not collapse when Saudi and China let go of their holding of US bonds.
For those who dont know what is "bonds". A Singaporean holds S$8millions of a Sin Co bonds. Now the bonds are able to return him $0.02 per dollar because the co is bankrupt.
So if US is bankrupt, Sin will be the regional power as US allied force in future?
@ October 07, 2016 11:13 am
ReplyDeleteIf say like than SCS case has much to discuss. And Mongol should breakoff from China.
When in favor of PRC you support , not in favor of PRC you deny. That's f*** up.
In the end , no difference. Equally BS , objective just to win.,
@ No wonder Thailand has become a heaven for western sex tourist.
ReplyDeleteSo you think Thai sex workers who they prefer ? The Ang Mo tourist customers or PRC tourist customers ?
@ " We should slut shame all Chinese women who date white men. "
ReplyDeleteWhat talking you ?
So you are saying we should learned from the Muslim?
All cover up or throw stone at them ?
We should deemed Schooling at zero instead of a gold medalist. We should praise Li jia wei for returning back to China after she's rich.
@ Lycurgus80ofsparta @ October 07, 2016 12:14pm
ReplyDelete/// ... its called rice cooker. It refers to a Chinese/japanese/korean woman who has a kid with a white man. Because after u cook rice it turns from yellow to white. lol. ///
-------------
Who are you calling a rice cooker?
Do you think Singapore will still have an Olympic Gold medal champion?
Duterte is very strong in the Philippines. So he can do what he likes in the Philippines.
ReplyDeleteHsien Loong is very strong in Singapore. Which Sinkie still doesn't know this? So Hsien Loong can do what he likes in Singapore.
If "Singaporean" were a race.
ReplyDeleteDo you think 70% of us are race traitors?
Why are Singaporean rice cookers marrying with pigs and giving birth to so many white pigs?
Do you think 70% of us are race traitors?
ReplyDelete1:53 pm
Traitors to who? Daft and money no enough Sinkies?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHow is cross breeding good for us ? Since we got the highest IQ 2nd only to Azkenazi Jews. Any sort of race mixing will generally lower IQ. But the worst problem is that it dilutes cultural identity. The Singapore government because it promotes civic nationalism is very much in favour of race mixing, hence the loyalty of an individual will no longer be to his tribe but to his nation state. This is what the globalist crave, a rootless cosmopolitan, population which cares not about the tribe but about the the latest I phone.
ReplyDeleteTrue diversity is found by keeping the races/castes separate.
Chinese race achieve greatness due to cross breeding. No such thing as pure Han.
ReplyDeleteCantonese, Hokkien are Yue 越。
Ningxia Hui are half Turkic.
Yunnan are mix minorities.
This is true, its the same for Ayrans (indo europeans). No race is a 100 percent pure. I generally don't mind cross east asian breeding because korean/chinese/japanese/vietnamese look alike it is easy to blend in, to a lesser extend with Melanesian. Mixed marriage with caucasoids on the other hand makes the offspring looking neither east Asian nor caucasoid. They will not be welcome in white society nor east Asian society.
ReplyDeleteI'm not 100 percent against mixed marriages. But it should be kept to a minimum should our people retain their identity.
My opinion is different. Han is not really a race but in reality, Han is something like Islam, anyone who defines themselves according to Han culture is Han.
ReplyDeleteSo anyone is free to join, so long you identify with us. Problem is not breeding but after inter-racial marriage, people tends to find shit culture like caste system, suicide bombing sexy.
This is in part PAP fault. PAP denigrate our culture so much, exulting White man, Malay and Hindu so much that Chinese hybrid normally take up someone else identity.
if we don't continue to sing American praises n plp the Americans..what will become of the billions we spent on the useless planes etc..looks lie our dice already cast..what happens if American warfare technology becomes obsolete or
ReplyDeleteare overtaken by the Chinese n Russians..all our neighbours have everything but American..then how?
This is a very dangerous way of thinking. If this is the case China could import 20 million Africans and 20 million Arabs. If they believe in sinic confucian culture it would be ok.
ReplyDeleteIt is just like western countries concept of bringing in migrants in the hope that they can assimilate to western culture.
This will not work because people will group up with others who look similar for their group interest. Hence african americans seperate from white americans even though they have the same culture.
The Japanese way of seeing Japanese as a race with the same ancestry is a far better.
I was a school teacher having Malay students. Some of these tell me they experience Chinese racism.
ReplyDeleteI am not too sure if these "racism" really make them fail and fail. They fail because they keep playing. Chinese do well because we keep on studying.
But looking at their face, they are undaunted, and they are determine to blame fucking chinese racist for making them a loser, for puting on job ad with Mandarin language requirement.
And ALL these hate have been contributed by Straits FUCKING TIMES, who keep trumpeting Chinese racist.
Mahathir and some Malay elites are more honest. They said FUCK you Malay, you deserver to be loser.
Our ST masturbated too much grieve into Malay shit brain that some of them keep trying to bomb and kill us. All these are Peranakan evil plan of de-sinicization.
@1:47 pm
ReplyDelete"So you are saying we should learned from the Muslim?"
Yes, but they are not extreme enough.
"All cover up or throw stone at them ?"
yes
"We should deemed Schooling at zero instead of a gold medalist. We should praise Li jia wei for returning back to China after she's rich."
You like men from other tribes fucking women from your tribe. You are a cuck, go kill yourself.
Uas domination will come to an end but there is a price - a WW3. It will throw all back to stone age. Will not do anyone good. Its okay to be second and no need to be number one. Only when number one becomes very weak, it will make sense to takeover.
ReplyDeleteI certainly do not encourage mass migration. This is dangerous.
ReplyDeleteAnd the Chinese way of sincization is China expand very slow. For 2000 years, Chinese empire expand till now 200%. So, Han can absorb minorities easily.
Veritas, Chinese and Muslim are the oldest allies. - Ming dynasty.
ReplyDeleteChinese also helps Muslim sultanate to defeat European power.
Ming dynasty display high respect for Muslim sultanate.
Veritas, Can you tell me anything about relationship between Ottoman empire and Ming dynasty?
ReplyDeleteChinese ally with Muslims and even USA before.
ReplyDeleteBut now Allah damn Sunni core state Saudi open Jihad camp for Uighur training suicide kid to kill a lot of Chinese.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteIf "Singaporean" were a race.
Do you think 70% of us are race traitors?
Why are Singaporean rice cookers marrying with pigs and giving birth to so many white pigs?
October 07, 2016 1:53 pm
This is quite extremist view. The world is gradually turning into a mixed pot of rice and we should not be so dismissive and negative about mixed marriages. There are many positives and even benefits in mixed marriages. It is not just negative.
The problem is the mindset and how people got a mindset planted in their heads without knowing why and take on very strong views determined by other people. This is the sad and dangerous part.
Eh the relationship betweem Islam and China go way back to the Yuan dynasty b4 the Ming. The first mosque in China was built by the Persian sailors in the Fujian province around 1300s. It was b4 the ottomans who really came to prominence in the 1400s.
ReplyDeleteAs for the relationship between Ming and ottomans. I don't think there was one. But Zhu Yuanzhang viewed them quite favorably.
ReplyDeleteNo. Firs contact of China and Islam went back Tang Dynasty, during the earliest day of Islam. There was a famous war between China and Abasid Caliphate, Battle of Talas in today Kazakhstan/Kyrgyzstan.
ReplyDeleteThen Chinese expeditionary force lost. This war has far reaching consequence that Central Asia get Islamized. if China won the war, Central Asia may be Sinicized.
Shortly after the war, The Tang dynasty imploded and it was until Qing Dynasty that China is able return to Central Asia, which is mostly Muslims by then.
// Then he fuck fuck fuck local persian (the ancester of today Sunni central asian).. Fuck fuck fuck and Li Bai was born. //
ReplyDeleteOctober 07, 2016 5:30 pm
Then he fuck fuck the local Singaporean ... Fuck fuck fuck and the Singaporean-70% was born.
So who fuck fuck and give birth to the local Singaporean slave?
How many times and extent did China invade her neighbhors over 2000 years vs Caliphate and Rome, over their short life time.
ReplyDeleteAnd Korean was China province and before Tang, war of Korean is something like Civil war. How about Tang? Tang are mix Manchu/Mongol/Turk and Tang emperor speak Turkic. They view such war as civil war as well.
Just like Qing emptire whose elites are manchu. They view fight the Oirats Mongol as something like Civil war.
@Veritas?
DeleteWhich China? Which Rome? The Eastern or Western Empire? Specify.
Nope. Korea was a vassal state but at no point were they considered Chinese. Also Korea has been a separate kingdom since the end of the Han. The Sui invaded Goreyo and LOST.
No. The Tang documents clearly state they were there to subdue foreign tribes. It was a war of conquest. None of those nations were part of the Tang.
Ah yes. The non Chinese Manchu.
China proper is so big and she was almost frozen for 2000 years.
ReplyDeleteGo compare caliphate. around 30 years after Mohamad, she spread from Spanish Cordova to Korazan (Afghanistan).
How about Roman? 200 years from a small hill top city to making meditteranean a inland lake.
China as a unity state from Qin Dynasty.
ReplyDeleteRoman Republic since punic war.
The earliest written record on Gojoseon, the most advanced polity on the Korean peninsula based in Pyongyang has been found in Shang-Shu-Da-Zhuan. It recorded the founding history of Gija Joseon which, according to local legend, was established by Chinese Shang dynasty descendants in the 12th century BCE. Chinese political culture was influential in Gojoseon; for example, the term Wang (Hangul: 왕; hanja: 王) was shared between China and Korea to describe their respective "King"s.
ReplyDeleteIn 194 BCE, Wiman, a former Yan Chinese general, took over the throne of Gojoseon after disposing of its former ruler, and relationships between Han China and Gojoseon deteriorated. The Gojoseon–Han War occurred in 109 BC, resulting in the defeat of Gojoseon and the establishment of the Four Commanderies of Han to govern China's Korean provinces, the largest one - the Lelang Commandery - lasting 400 years
////////////////////////
The status of Korea was somewhat like warring state of China. Morover, the entire elite class are Chinese, native are Chosun. Naturally it is naturally Korea get absorb into China proper.
In fact, statlets like Fujian and Canton then is even less Han than Korea.
It was a Chinese province for 400 years, firmly in China. The next 200 years, she was in China on and off. Finally after Tang dynasty she got her independence.
@Veritas.
DeleteWhat a pack of lies. The end of the Jin Dynasty saw China devolve into 10 kingdoms and 5 dynasties.
There was no unified Chinese state during that period.
The Korean Penninsula was already effectively a sovereign kingdom by then. You are claiming cultural similarity equates political unity. It does not.
China post Qin spends centuries with several contending peer powers. That China exists as a singular polity since the Qin is a myth. The concept of nation statehood did not exist in Chinese political thought till the late Qing anyway
The point is when a united China breakup, so long it did not get united back, "neo Chinese" will be form.
ReplyDeleteAnd the breakup of China after Jin saw minorities like Xianbei, Tibetan, Mongols, Turks controlling China. They could easily evolve into different people.
These Northern nomads did control Korea one time or another.
Korean did not become Chinese because the unity China state Sui and Tang no longer interested in waging war to bring her back.
There is no such thing as India or Indians until British come and fuck their ass.
In China, there records of appointment of imperial officers, tax collection.
To say the Xianbei et al were minority is to ignore a fact. At the time of their invasion they were FOREIGN. Most of them remained so till the foreign Manchus conquered them. But thanks to the Russians Mongolia is a free country today.
DeleteThe Sui certainly wanted to subjugate Korea. But they lost so bad the Sui collasped.
And again you ignore the large swathes of history of these 2.2 k years where they were under foreign domination or were several independent kingdoms.
When much of these records were by bureaucrats serving different sovereigns, they are not part of the same Chinese state.
@Anon.
You know what they are not also?
Chinese. Veritas proves he spouts propoganda contrary to actual written Chinese history
Chinese as a nation state lasted around 2200 years. The most important such feature is tax collection, appointment of governors, and very importantly the ability to mobilized soldiers from the southern most Guangzhou province to fight in Manchuria.
ReplyDeleteAnd ancient China even able to mobilized korean to fight in Xinjiang.
ReplyDeleteJayf, dont repeat those mistake too on history of Korea as sovereign entity.
You are also claiming cultural similarity equates political unity.
it is also a myth that Joseon, Goryeo and Three kingdoms of Korean are actually same entity.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFor 2200 years history, most of the time China is united. Give me any other states like China? India? Rome? For such a long history and such a big empire, some punctuation of fragmentation is extremely normal.
ReplyDeleteChinese minorities empire are foreign but that does not mean China have no central government. Or maybe you can interpret fragmentation of Vietnam and Korea from China to show there is no central government.
You think Normandy or Elizabeth I Britain have as good central control as China?
All Chinese strong dynasty went into Korea. By Sui time, she has slowly out of the priority as a target for unification, though she is being seen somewhat as China.
The war of unification by Sui by Wendi include Vietnam but not Korea.
By the way, Norman are French/Scandinavian from Normandy, Stuart are Scots, William III of England is Dutch invader of Britain, George I are Germany, is Britain a state or not?
ReplyDeleteYes. The United Kingdom in her current form since the Acts of Union with Scotland fits a modern state definition.
ReplyDeleteNeed I remind you those were non Chinese dynasties that ruled China. The Yuan for example claimed parts of a far larger Mongol Empire.
During the Yuan, the Chinese state did not exist. There was the Mongol Yuan and the Jurchen descended Manchu Qing. But no native Chinese state.
LOL. There are 5 Khanate, Yuan was under Kubilai. There are central government. Qing are Manchus. These are Chinese minorities and there are central government, bureaucrats.
ReplyDeleteThere are imperial exams.
Is there no states?
Go look at wiki.
Well no.
ReplyDeleteThe Mongols did not come from China proper. Kublai Khan and the Yuan ruling class maintained their cultural identity as Mongols until they were driven out. The Manchu at the time of the Qing Conquest of China were explicitly foreign-not Chinese.
The term Chinese minority didn't even enter the Chinese lexicon until they borrowed the concept of minority nations from the Soviet Union and borrowed nationalism from Meiji Japan.
You are applying late modernist terms and thought to an early modern period polity like the Qing and Ming empires. Why not consult the Ming archives how they regarded the Jurchens and the Mongols?
Oh right- foreign barbarian tribes- aka NOT Chinese.
The Chinese cultural identity and sense of nationhood evolved and changed under both native Han culture and under latter foreign domination of the Manchus. But the Chinese STATE however had collapsed. Mulriple times, on several occasions.
The Manchu centric Qing certainly wasn't the same as their successor State the ROC, nor is the MArxist- Leninist PRC the same as the ROC.
The Chinese imperial exam in any case differed greatly under each dynasty. Under the Mongol Yuan it differed depending on the Emperor, with several more purist monarchs outright abolishing it.
In short, learn to history.
Say what you want to say. We still have central government. Europe is still fuedalist.
ReplyDeleteThen Normans, Stuart, Orange? No England?
If Mongol are chinese or a part of chinese then the argument china never invade other countries does not stand.
ReplyDeleteThe amount of people the mongol killed during their conquest already in guinness world record. The atrocities Japan committed pales in comparison
We got central government. PERIOD.
ReplyDeleteNope. Chinese terms Hu and Yi are a generic and degrading term which referred to anyone not Chinese. The Chinese used the term Hong Yi on the Portugese and English as well.
ReplyDelete@😁 Veritas.
Not during the Tang post An Lushan. Or during the collapse of the Sui and Yuan. Nor during the Qing Conquest. Or the Warlord period.
The current United Kingdom exists after union with Scotland. England has had Parlimentary Sovereignity since the end of the English civil war. Who reigns is not as important as who controls Parli.
In short Veritas. Your statement of a unified Chinese state 2k years old is false. Much of those years there was no unified Chinese state under a singular Son of Heaven.
And they were just as warlike as the other great powers. Only thing was most of it were against other Chinese states.
We got a central government.
ReplyDeleteCleaner than Indian scion of devedasi,
ReplyDeleteThe Chinese used the term Hong Yi on the Portugese and English as well.
ReplyDeleteChinese terms Hu and Yi are a generic and degrading term which referred to anyone not Chinese
____________________________________________________________________________________
Because those European are barbarian -a savage.
Did Chinese call Indian people? Hu? Yi?
! Anon
ReplyDeleteSo barbaric that the Chinese ultimately adopted their system of government, science and medicine.
Anon.
ReplyDeleteSo if the West is more advanced in science medicine and government who is the barbarian now?
Hint. It is the one that was left in the dust. Starts with C ends with A.
Greeks? The culture that was absorbed into the Roman upper class society which in turn was the grandaddy of all Western nations?
Are you able to understand what you typed? Since when did anyone say Greeks were not Western?
Jayf, you repeat mistake again
ReplyDeleteBarbarian does not equate to the notion - "less advanced in science, medicine, governance"
Roman are barbarian.
The current United Kingdom exists after union with Scotland. England has had Parlimentary Sovereignity since the end of the English civil war. Who reigns is not as important as who controls Parli.
ReplyDelete_________________________________________________________________________________
How about Northern Ireland? Wales?
How about voting right of ordinary people and general election?
UK dont even have fucking civil service until 18th century. China have bureaucrats since 2200 years ago.
ReplyDeleteI dont want to argue with Moron JayF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_Majesty%27s_Civil_Service
ReplyDelete//////////////
In 1806, the Honourable East India Company established a college, the East India Company College, near London. The purpose of this college was to train administrators; it was established on recommendation of officials in China who had seen the imperial examination system. The civil service, based on examination similar to the Chinese system, was advocated by a number of Englishmen over the next several decade
//////////////
UK admit their most advance form of government system -- the civil service is copycat from China.
He is a keling liar, very very common among keling. Lie lie lie lie lie non stop.
Lol.
DeleteIt is good to know that Veritas despite his Nanman heritage realised that the UK Civil Service learned from the Chinese yet avoided the awful abuse of power, nepotism and all round corruption that plagued them. Not to mention outlasting the imperial state.
If the Chinese only had the ICAC like HK did to clean up their act.
At Anon.
So the PRC is now a barbarian state? You anti Chinese racist!
Veritas. Someone is insulting your Han masters. Be a good Nanman pet and fight them.
Jafy,
ReplyDeletewhy cant India have ICAC like HK to clean up their act?
Why cant British have ICAC like HK to clean up their act?
Why cant US have ICAC like HK to clean up their act?
By the way, ICAC did not successfully get rid of corruption in HK. Corruption in those " democratic nation" is much worse than China.
And Genghis Khan , Temujin is actually a Han Chinese - exiled to Mongol grassland.
He think quite differently from other mongol tribe.
Because an Indian ICAC will be staffed by Indians.
ReplyDeleteBecause they have the London Met who keeps the UK as a low corruption risk country.
Because they have the FBI and RICO act.
You got a source for that😀? Because China recent anti corruption drive was so hard hitting their domestic consumption dropped.
I repeat. Chinese corruption was so endemic their economy took a hit when it was affected.
You got a source for that? Because all Mongol and Chinese primary sources listed his genalogy as a son of a tribal chief murdered by a rival.
Or are you talking out of your ass like most of the others here?
Indian corruption worst in world. Thats how china win india lost. Goi cannot build toilet
ReplyDeleteIndia where got corruption? USA, Japan and Europe where got corruption?
ReplyDeleteIf got corruption the western media would be writing about them everyday.
Tiok boh?
lol, this is a rather interesting discussion. But i think you gents have larely strayed from the original argument about Chinese expansion.
ReplyDelete@Lycurgus
ReplyDeleteNot so much strayed as it is Veritas getting all salty from his tears when I blew out his claims of muh Chinese superiority and peace loving hippie nature. You know, his claims that China was so united despite spending centuries of her history post Qin being divided among several Chinese descended states.
That the concept of nationhood is a Western idea that the Chinese imported from a Westernised Japan and Europe after they saw their worldview crumble in the face of Western science and thought appears incomprehensible to Veritas and several Anon.
You know, like the one who's somehow saying that science, government and law somehow isn't what defines a society.
Have May 4th movement? For someone who is so fond of China, they appear appallingly ignorant of actual Chinese history.
Chinese claims of them being peaceful during their long history is as mythical as Emperor Jinmu of Japan. China is plenty warlike throughout her history. That they have minorities in the double digits, with so many differing cultures is proof of Chinese military prowess and aggression.
China in the SCS is engaging in outright revanchanism. The problem of course the last time a rising aggressive power engaged in these, we got the World Wars at worst, the Prussian-Franco Wars at best.
No nation prior to import western idea? No such thing as caliphate, safavid, mughal?
ReplyDeleteBtw china hack care nation state western idea.
ReplyDeleteOf course. We are talking the Chinese POV yes?
ReplyDelete普天之下,莫非王土
This sums up the worldview of the Chinese dynasties until the West convinced them otherwise.
Everything belongs to the Emperor who was sovereign over everything. All foreign tribes, who are barely nations, only vassals to be cowed or rebel bandits to be subdued are not nations.
The idea of a country, where the people paid a part was laughable. The Empire was the Emperor's land. The Son of Heaven was sovereign. The idea of a people having ownership, popular sovereignity was alien to them. Certainly, some Chinese thinkers had thought of them during the pre-imperial times of the Hundred Schools, but the imperial system certainly didn't believe them.
China heck care the Western nation state idea?
So why is there a PRC and ROC Constitution? Why does the PRC exalt socialism and Maoist, Leninist, Marxist thought in their PRC Constitution. Why are political parties a thing?
The China you dream about. Racially pure, culturally superior didn't exist. Great Chinese minds like Lu Xun was lambasting people like you, mocking people like you in Ah Q.
Hopeless fools who cling to the idea of a Great Chinese superiority which never existed.
You talk about nation state?
ReplyDeleteOr you talk about no states before western nation state existed?
ReplyDeleteI talk of the concept of nationalism. Something alien to the Chinese where power rested in the lineage seated on the throne.
ReplyDeleteYou understand the meaning of nation states?
ReplyDeleteMore than you. Do you understand the language your are typing?
ReplyDeleteEverything belongs to the Emperor ho was sovereign over everything. All foreign tribes, who are barely nations, only vassals to be cowed or rebel bandits to be subdued are not nations.
ReplyDelete________________________________________________________________________________-
jafy,
It is typical European viewpoint of the outside world.
Constitutional monarchy in UK did not abolish the idea that Everything belongs to the Emperor ( the Queen)
British MP and Soldier continue to swear their loyalty to the Queen.
Prosecutor are acting for the Crown. ( Monarchy)
Parliament exercise the power on behalf of Crown. (Queen)
According to Western historian, Ming dynasty is a modern nation statehood.
Not after the English Civil War and Post Glorious Revolution it was not.
DeleteJust ask the beheaded English King if you disagree.
And a Song and Ming subject will likewise refer to himself as a subject of such than use the term Zhongguo ren.
What was the point you were raising? We were discussing China.
India only exist as modern nation statehood after British Raj.
ReplyDeleteThe term " India" or Indian originated from European.
Those Kingdom does not refer themselves as India or Indian.
Moghul is not Indian too. They are Mongol.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYes you are Veritas.
DeleteWhat is the point? Reading without understanding, knowledge without intellect, what a waste of time.
ReplyDelete