China is
reclaiming and rebuilding the islands in the South China Sea and turning them
into habitable islands with facilities for commerce and human industry. Its fishing boats and coast guards are in the
waters in the South China Sea. And it is being accused of being an assertive
and aggressive power when its fishing boats are being arrested and towed away
by little countries making counter claims to the islands in the South China
Sea. Who are the aggressive and assertive countries? Who are the countries that
are arresting fishing boats from other countries and blowing them up?
What is
inexplicable is that China, being a super power, could easily chase away all
the small little patrol boats of the Asean countries that are threatening the
Chinese fishing boats, arresting them if needed to, including arresting the
patrol boats, instead of allowing
Chinese fishing boats to be detained and blown into piece and Chinese fishermen arrested.
Does China
believe in the 9 dashed lines and that its fishing boats are fishing in Chinese
waters? If so, then China must enforce and protect their safety from foreign
patrol boats. By not doing so, China is indirectly saying that the Chinese
fishing boats are fishing in other country’s waters and therefore illegal and
rightly detained by other countries. If they are in Chinese waters and they
could be arrested and Chinese coast guards could not do anything about it, it
is a sign of weakness, unable to protect its own fishing boats and fishermen.
China has
two options, enforces its claim over the islands if it really believes they
belong to China and protect its fishing boats and fishermen. If it does not
believe so, or believes that the waters are disputed seas, then it should keep
its fishing boats out of the disputed areas. This is only the right and
respectable thing to do. Allowing its fishing boats to fish in disputed water
is debatable. Unable to protect its fishing fleet makes China look hopeless and
weak as a super power. In both instances China is looking very bad to the
world.
What does
China really believes? It is either right or wrong, the claimed South China Sea
region is either Chinese territories or it is not. If yes, make sure the competing claimants
know and to protect their fishing boats. If not, do not cause trouble by
allowing its fishing boats into the area and to be arrested and blown apart.
What are the
Chinese leaders thinking? China must not be wishy washy and invite trouble and
ill repute to itself without a clear position and a clear policy to deal with
the other Asean states or to allow its fishing boats to be harassed and
arrested like illegal fishing boats committing a crime in other country’s
territorial waters. China must not only act tough but also be clear and must
respect other country’s territorial waters if it wants others to respect its
territorial waters.
Anyone,
China or Asean states making claims in the South China Sea would have to
safeguard their claims legally and by force if necessary. The Vietnamese,
Indonesians, the Malaysians and the Philippines are doing so, sending out their
naval vessels to enforce their claims. China too must do so if it is serious in
its claims and arrest vessels in the disputed areas when others are also doing
the same. Failure to do so is not only a
sign of weakness but weakening its claims by default, an act or acknowledgement
that the disputed area does not belong to China.
52 comments:
China claim of the Island is excessive but not without justification. In fact, the claims of China to SCS Island was with support of USA. China plant flag in SCS Islands via warship given to KMT.
Then, Philippines have no claims yet.
While people keep fucking China, the white man media fail to mention Taiwan claim the entire spratley as well. President Ma Ying Jeou eager to have a name in history just visited the Island.
Given if KMT remain in power in mainland, she will also fight the Pinoy and Vietnam.
Taiwan know that being controlled by USA, she cannot play the SCS game. But she tacitly support China by not relinquishing the claims of SCS. NO ONE FUCK TAIWAN -- not fair.
China has actually play restrain in building SCS infra-structure. Right now, NOT a single ASEAN navy with exception of Singapore, is able to defeat even the Taiwanese navy.
Just Taiwanese navy will be enough to finish of Viet, pinoy and malaysia.
Taiwan being USA lackey has not sabo USA plan against China by hardening her SCS asset.
And China is open to negotiation and compromise, not like what USA has portrayed. In fact the one who took the most Spratly is Vietnam, not China. Also China has generally keep quiet on malaysia, a sign that China may have accepted Malaysia hold on her spratly.
The deployment of PLAN vessels will really militarise the region and gives USA opportunity to blow their fog horn in good weather.
China is smarter than that and so deploys coast guard vessels.
These 4,000 tonne vessels scare the hell out of the Viets, Pinoys and Indonesian vessels. As usual, the three countries will bully fishing vessels.
The point is that if China wants to claim, then it must be ready to use force to make the claims real. It is shameful to have their fishing boats and fishermen arrested by little countries and they cannot do anything.
If cannot enforce claims, then don't claim.
They are not little country. They are USA. China must calculate not to fire a shot a USA fleet.
Best thing is to screw USA in Syria, not SCS.
For islands that China already occupies and are developing, there is no need for China to make any claim. China only needs to assert that these islands are China's sovereign lands, and any trespassers who do not heed warning should be blown out of the waters and arrested. These countries that lay claims to the islands did not even exist when China was sailing around the globe. This is the reward China gets for not colonizing these countries like western countries did when China was king of the seas. What audacity for them to now lay claims to the islands.
Next month, we would see the pinoy case verdicts and subsequent reactions from the rest of the claimant states.
If China is determined to claim these reefs, island, whatsoever in these nine dash line by force, then it must be prepared economically, militarily, political to withstand backlashes.
- Militarily - face up to coalition forces + world's most powerful and experienced armed forces.
- Economically- face up the worldwide export ban and have to rely on internal consumption to maintain economy
- Politically - face up internal factions rival and almost no friends in the region.
If China is willing to pay the price, why not do whatever it wants to claim back what it wants.
China cannot escape another 8 nation attacke. The plan was sealed when Obama met the Asean head of states at the California summit. Now another summit at Hiroshima when the G7 will sign an agree to attack China.
China must be prepared to take on another league of nation style invasion led by the Americans and the G7.
The little countries can be left to fight the Abu Sayyaf and the terrorists. Ppines just lost 18 soldiers dead and 45 wounded. Abu Sayyaf lost 5 men dead and 20 wounded. How's that for a mismatch of fighting ability?
Singapore Navy the oni Naval Force in the Region able to deal
n even defeat Taiwan Navy.
Really ah ?
Vietnam kilo class with its klub missile is something that Taiwanese navy cannot handle and may be a surprise even for the Chinese Navy.
Singapore Navy ... dun even have destroyers...maybe the new 219 subs are something.
Agreed.
China is being wishy-washy and it doesn't act like what a superpower should.
Doing nothing but big talks will accomplish nothing. Guaranteed.
Either way, US and the West will still be meddling; so why not take the big stick approach?
Fishing protection is a side dish. The main course is to deploy missiles on these islands. The Dong Feng 41 has already deployed on S China sea Island. Already done in this April. DF 41 is carried by 7 wheels vehicles, firing 10 nuclear war heads barrels independently. Range 15000km. Can reach any nuclear carrier in S china seas lah. The one in changi also boleh kena.
All china arti unit are using missiles now. The second arti corps has at least 2 DF41 for deployment. Everyone knows what can floats in the seas what cannot floats during war time.
US can talk. Nuclear war heads can sink any carrier with US flags. Cannot play play now.
China will just play on paper along. Forget about warheads, the eu and russia will soon have their round and then ua and china can pick up the ramblers.
Hi luckyguy,
Welcome to the blog. China tries to be nice but the Americans and the little countries would not be nice. It is thus better to be not nice than be nice.
The Dongfeng series are game changers in the control of the sea.
Dongfeng were never game changers.
They are originally ICBM meant for nuclear deterance. The ratio of nuclear stockpile of US to China warheads are 1:11.
In any case of scenario over land, air , sea....
If China would to launch ICBM 1st against US, China race would be exterminated on planet earth.
If China would not go nuclear 1st, there is no way to win convectionally and the stockpile is just for show or display.
If China would to arm itself with vast quantities of stockpile to match US. Russia and india, japan, korea will follow suit. And will only get itself to be outcast if does not follow the rules. China enemy will not only be US but Russia will be on the list as well.
If the Chinese deployed DF 41 in SCS islands. That proves these generals are like our sg scholars generals who know nothing.
DF 41 are truck mounted in lieu of silo based and are solid fueled. Being 10K to 15k km in range depending on payload and no. of MIRV, there is no need for them to be base in close proximity with the enemy and in this range, it can reached the US city firing from withing China mainland. Placing them on a island will only make it to be detected easily and destroyed in early stages of deployment.
The question on DF 41 is not on its attack flight path -trajectory (which can change course) which is used to evade incoming anti air missiles. Rather a lot of "expert"s has doubts on whether China satellite will have the ability to remain in air during wartime and has the ability (enough no. of satellites) to detect and identify a moving (dynamic target) US aircraft carrier during wartime in the open ocean. It also needs to transmit new data (resists jamming) to the missile real time due to the moving target. Even Japan has more no. of satellites in the air as reported.
The truth is now Taiwan President and legislative control is in DPP hands. KMT at least for now is irrelevant to Taiwan. The Taiwanese people have spoken despite China's efforts to threaten Taiwanese consequences of voting for DPP.
Now the question is will Mr Ma face the same fate as Ah bian after he stepped down. Mr Ma's "biggest" achievement in Taiwan's history is not so much of securing more land for Taiwan or meetings with China no. 1....but will be remember him forever for his incompetence in party leadership which has cause the utter destruction of KMT brand in Taiwan on top of his poor performance in administration.
In short, Taiwan people would rather be controlled by US than the PRC....Any politician sticking too close to China is deemed as "not taiwanese".
Dengfeng is part of the game changer is indeed. Remember the Vietcon? Vietcon did not have Dengfeng or drone. Technology and money that china has are the game changer. The US was unable to win Vietcon. A survey revealed that only 20% thought that US shd defend Taiwan against China s attack.
There are 2000+ missiles aiming at Taiwan alone. How many Dengfeng missiles are aiming at the US aircraft carriers? We can easily guess in our mind. US s carriers are made of metal sheets welded by heat. Can metal sheets melt in nuclear heat?
BTW, for those living in the east highrise buildings: if the carrier at changi is hit by a nuclear bomb, by N korea or china or russia, the heat will induce strong air from the surrounding to push towards the heat center, the strong airpressure will likely to blow away flats and condos there. The same applies to carrier sailing in ocean, it will like be sinking much faster due to the airpressure. The number of death will put off the US public .s support to have war with china.
Obama shd know the consequences. He will not try. Hillary may be keen to test china, if Taiwan head for independence. Or S Korean pushes troops to head north. China US war will see the next vietnam war repeating in asia.
It is 东风 not 邓风。 pls lah....
It is a complicator but certainly not a game changer. Whether China has proven technology to target a ballistic missile on a moving target in a vast ocean during war time remains to be proven. It has conducted tests to hit stationary targets and not yet in open oceans. Even there is such technology, it does not change the outcome. It just take more numbers to reach that level. And US has more and most aircraft carriers on this planet.
In the event China uses nuclear weapon, US will retaliate in massive number simply it has more stockpiles and launch platforms. There is no reaction time left for the either president to determine public support since 1st launch as it will only take minutes if not hrs to make the decision. Normally, the country (if any is left) will go into martial law where the president (or next in line) will have absolute control.
Take note, a ballistic missile can be detected whereas cruise missile can only be detected when it is near its target.
Game Changer means it changes the outcome. Complicator means the outcome remains the same but it is more complicated. A lot of people (just like China observers) bets on a lot of other varying emotional factors. The point is the guy that has the most/high tech hardware and software on hand has the ultimate choice to decide on whatever it wants to do.
Ask the Americans what is the meaning of A2/AD defence strategy and why they are getting nervy at the thought of it.
They are always nervy of all soviet/chinese/iranian/NK weaponary and strategies. All of these is to get media attention to put pressure of senate budget funding committee to increase funding or not to cut their "dept" or base funding especially in current times. All the defense contractor (who some are also senate lobbyist) are counting on these budgets as well to make their billions if not millions...coy share price.... Remember why our million dollars ministers also holds so many appointments. Also by advocating all these threats, it will also increase foreign military sales...eg. suddenly everybody buying Patriot missiles, Japan buying Aegis defense system.... not cheap....
It is just like your head of dept working in your company projecting rosy outlooks for the market (in fact no hope liao) projecting astronomical figures in order for boss not to cut budget funding (pay increment) or not to cut head count....
The Americans still pumps in USD 600+ billion a year for defense budget (despite in debt) where china budget is 200+ and rising.
China is not being nice. It is barging its way around like a bully.
So many pro-China supporters here you fear if there is war in this region, would these people abandon Sinkie to fight for China. How to trust such unreliable fellow Sinks?
You want to fight China? You are thinking like the pinoys. Want to buy a second hand submarine to fight China's 80 submarines? Or you thinking like the Malaysians, want to send 4 patrol boats to push China out of the South China Sea?
How old are you?
Who wants to fight China? But it looks like the China supporters here want to see a fight between China and the US and/or China's neighbours. Wow. Talking about how we really should worry about the China supporters here who would drop everything to support China and abandon Sinkieland!
How can China be nice? Look how it treats its kids.... like Vaccine and milk powder incidents.
Anon 10:25,
Go and talk about your favourite subject, religion.
10.34, if my favourite topic is religion, then your favourite past time is sexually harassing women on the internet?
"Right now, NOT a single ASEAN navy with exception of Singapore, is able to defeat even the Taiwanese navy."
The idea that our RSN is able to fight wars is ludicrous. Our men and women are not even competent to sail a boat. Remember "RSS Courageous"? It collided with a merchant ship and ended up with two of our women sailors killed. Every maritime sailor, even the Mat fisherman for kampong village, knows that when two vessels approach, you should take the right side. RSS Courageous thought it was smart and decided to go left, in order to "cut into the path" of the merchant ship. Just like kiasu Ah Beng driver who wants to show who is more daring and garang. The result? Courageous backside got rammed and its arsehole was left with a gaping entrance wide enough for a whale to enter. Two female sailors died because while RSN has sopphisticated equipment, it was operated and manned by inept Sinkie sailors.
8:31zm. U want to trust who? "How to trust such unreliable fellow Sinks?
The elites will not be with u when war breaks out. That why best trust for sinkies is to hire professional soldiers from nepal india indonesians, malaysians and pinoys. They will not run to china to take cover, as ordinary citizens while the elites run to australia.
Basis of observation: look at the trend of people seeking jobs when jobless here. The rich educated elites go to australia. Ordinary ones go to china. They all establish lobang there lah.
In war, first thing they do is run off. U can fight with the foreigners if these foreigners are trained to put out fire.
What happened to your racist blog? Why closed down and dare not write again?
BTW, for those living in the east highrise buildings: if the carrier at changi is hit by a nuclear bomb, by N korea or china or russia,
If Sg is hit by Nuclear Bomb (i assume ICBM inclusive) and we know who hit us.
This is the time the west clamp hands and legs and will pull the rest of the worlds nose to dictate whatever they want to dictate for sure.
Nukes are used to give a knock out blow to your worst enemy such that they will cry in your shoulder. Last time it was used on Nippon. Sg is never a target strategic enough to invoke a nuclear sneak attack.... It just does not work out. If used on a big or equal enemy, both side will eat shit for years to come.
I found that racist blog. He is still around. Just note that he is actually a psychologist and not a draughtsman. He always like to put up fake identities to troll and commit his cyber crimes. https://www.blogger.com/profile/05679628160308289045
6:18pm.
Seems no one know US nuclear carrier is parking at changi.
I learned this from CCTV china. The whole china knew it.
The DF41 are ICBMs not anti aircraft carrier missiles. The ASBM/anti aircraft carrier missiles are DF21D and DF26. These are rated as the fastest anti ship missiles today with a terminal speed of Mach 10, unstoppable, too fast for anti missile defence system.
RB
ASBM stands for Anti Ship Ballistic Missile. DF series are all ballistic missile and works on the same principle.
Ballistic missiles are different from traditional anti ship missile.
As for whether they are unstoppable, as mentioned, DF21 has a target acquisition problem ie. to locate the target during wartime in the vast ocean. You can read more on this.
This may be one of the reason why US insists of installing Thaad system in SK at such close proximity on top of the Japan Aegis armed with SM3 in Japan waters. Together with the Thaad system comes with the X band radar where it is also deployed in Taiwan and Japan.
If a missile is ballistic, there are quite a number of loop holes which can be exploited compared to a sea skimming missile. Sea skimming missiles are very difficult to detect to even begin with.
Arent the americans sibei not honest as well??
I suspect our Sg Scholaaaar generals know this as well otherwise why the sg govt dare to openly chose sides and provoke China. I may be wrong on this.
@ 908pm
Nowadays, it is easy to to receive more information. However one must obtain various sources in order to compare.
In my opinion, during wartime. Nobody will know for sure where will be the aircraft carriers.
the simple reason is it will not be in port for sure and somemore these are nuclear powered (no need refueling) and i think can stay offshore for months.
BTW did you see CCTV showing the map of the countries (by colouring) where china's potential enemy are? It is worrying and if Russia flips.... the containment is complete.
The big powers are monitoring every movement of satellites, submarines, aircraft carriers, ICBM silos and mobile ICBMs. Both sides would try to hide and at the same time tracking what the other side is doing.
So many things will happen once hostility is declared. Communication lines would be attacked, satellites would be attacked, all military bases would be attacked, all submarines and aircraft carriers would be attacked, all radar stations would be attack and many more.
The list of things happening in the first hour would be mindboggling. All ICBMs would be launched, it would be a nuclear holocaust. Think of this scenario.
The American experts are talking among themselves that the DF21D's speed of Mach 10 would make interception impossible. Not I say one.
12:20am.
Agree. Dont read the local news too much, about traffic, about elites s lines of teaching. The world is changing fast. From china s parade at tienanmen sept 15 and the restructuring, china s main fire power is missiles. They called arti units. If known that 2000+ missiles are aiming at Tw, any mind can guess how many missiles are also aiming at the "map" u mentioned in po. Sinkies are not crisis concern. Their dear leaders are talking abt taking 4 millions foreigners in 10-15yrs time to have 7mil, then 10mil 20yrs time. Its planning for suicide, man eat man when missiles fire at water supply lines and food chains. Living in sg is no longer life long safe. Have lobang to run at crisis is one sure way. The elites can go nice place like Austrailia where there are bases. Ordinary men can go chuihu or tng swar. Dont discount china silk route, your descendants sure need this route to live on.
RB 8:22, 8:27.
Your mind coincides with mine. I think so, after watching china s parade. Dont miss the russia parade earlier. Sinkies are brand name believers. They think the word US is guarantee for survival. They forget US lost war to Vietcon, even they used chemical weapons to clear the forests. They new normal kind of missile war will not be US carriers can handle. Look at ISIS bombing, the US UK are showing weaknesses. Its russians who help sysria to recapture the lost land, especially the historic site.
Russians are using combined missiles, bombing and some ground troops. US dare not to put ground troops in big number. How to protect sinkies when this group NK, china, russia fire at changi base? US has no more new planes to hide. F35 is the last for the next 20 yrs to come. China also have chang 21 and chang 31. The bombers are almost the same class now. Russians more advance type are not talked about. So US carriers are old concept waiting to be sank at war time. US main land is far from here lah.
The simple anti aircraft carrier strategy has made the American naval fleet obsolete. Cheap, accurate and plentiful unmanned missiles hitting aircraft carriers at long range and the aircraft carriers cannot hit back. A reversal of role. It used to be aircraft carriers can hit anywhere in China and China cannot hit back.
American missile technology has gone to sleep. Now they are depending on Russian missiles to send Americans to space. The DF21D is the fastest missile in its class and the Americans are trying to develop something to counter it. Forget about Thaad. It would not work. Nothing can catch the DF21d warheads.
@ RB
Putting aside the discussion on the physics mechanics of this mach 10 shit thing, why in this case you would want to chose to believe what this "american expert" say. I mean.... arent we suppose to think for ourselves and not selectively chose to believe 100% of what the west say.
If this american expert is correct, could you list out his name so that we can at last follow his "findings" and find out the truth.
Because so many read American reports saying Chinese weapons are shit. So I select one American report to say Americans also say something else.
The media, or American intelligence reports will say the things they want the daft to hear. When they want to rubbish China, they would put up reports that everything Chinese is rubbish.
When they want to frighten the daft, they would say China is a big threat and China has very frightening weapons, got this, got that and going to destroy the daft and their HDB flats in Singapore. And the daft would all hide under their tables. The lucky dafts can hide in their bomb shelters in their flats.
You see what I am driving at?
Oh, I don't believe in anything. Only the dafts believed in them. I just post them for them to read and make their own conclusion. Dafts like to jump to conclusion.
RB, if you take a photo of a daft's father and show it to the daft and tell him this is his father, the daft would not believe you because you said it.
If the Americans show the picture of a monkey and tell the daft it is his father, the daft will believe so, because the Americans said so.
The moral of the story, stupidity has no cure.
See that is where you are biased and drawing your own conclusions.
Most american reports are not saying chinese weapons are shit but are saying american weapons are more superior. In fact, most are saying Chinese weapons have sort of catch up as times have changed with their increased spending. This is a good excuse to ask for more funding despite country in debt. Even Chinese generals admitted there is a at least 20 yr aircraft engine tech gap.
The point here is not about whose weapon is more superior but rather we also do not know what facts lies on the table that make us draw conclusions. Certainly not being transparent about the types of tests conducted and budget spending does not help either parties.
While we cannot 100% trust either parties media especially under current circumstance, we also cannot deny that some groups with intentional or unintentional agenda are trying to smear either country simply by saying things that they themselves are unsure of or one sided. Who really know who is the real devil here? Eg. When one who is not armed with proper knowledge or technical knowledge( u know what i am talking) and starts to stir shit, are you helping China or hurting China more? Because it will back fired and cause more harm than ever if it is not calibrated.
I let you decide whether it is about the daft sinkies who choose to believe or rather about the entire chinese race which you are trying to sabotage.
If Thaad is useless, why China do not want it deployed in South Korea?
I mean should let US spends tons of money to deploy useless system.
Just because you are a useless dog, does not mean you are welcome to park anywhere.
Same meaning. Can understand?
The Americans have nothing to worry about. All Chinese weapons are of inferior quality, old technology from the 1960s Russia. Inaccurate and may not fire. Nothing to worry about. American weapons and technology are so superior. China would be wiped out in one hour.
The US is the only force that can deter China on S China sea island dispute. But US can talk cannot do. US has carriers while china develop the islands as platform for deployment.
eg Woody island, or yong xin doa, the one claimed by vietnam, and very near the one claimed by philippines, but own by taiwan called taiping island.
China hs deployed missile system such as S300 on this island, and its DF stuff. It also has airport and deployed with chang 11 stealth fighter jets. chang 11 chang 20 are jets for F22. Those chang are capable of over the shoulder missile to hit close range jet combat.
The conclusion is US is losing in firing power using carriers to swim around. The chinese will not stop the carriers to waste money to run around like taxi plying the route.
When come to firing power, my guess is: missiles will rain on the carriers bases first, so that they cannot come back, but swim back to america. So changi at sg might not be in the map, if war break out.
Hi Anon 1:03,
The ultimate victor of a war is not determine purely by the superiority of equipment. There are many factors involved.
Anyone thumping his chest to claim this and that is just that, thumping his chest. The victor will appear after a war has end. If there is a war between any of the big powers, there are so many variables to consider. The Americans have proven in many occasions that their military superiority in numbers, in fire power, in technology etc etc, could not defeat the will of a people fighting their their country.
The human spirit will triumph over adversities. And there is also a saying, good will triumph over evil.
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