I have reposted this article from TRE which I think many Sinkies are in the same fate, victims of the Govt policies.
HDB unfair policy: I’d rather trade places with PRs
HDB
There is something seriously wrong with a country that penalises its citizens and fawns at foreigners. One such flawed policy which clearly demonstrates this is HDB’s policy on the eligibility to buy new flats.
Under HDB’s policy, a family nucleus consisting of at least one Singapore Citizen is eligible to buy a flat direct from HDB. This means that a family nucleus consisting of PRs can effectively buy a direct HDB flat as long as one of them is a citizen.
This is an unfair policy that allows foreigners to exploit loopholes in the system. A foreigner who buys a flat direct from HDB (with another citizen) effectively enjoys the subsidy which a citizen enjoys because he buys the flat at a subsidised rate. In addition, he enjoys the novelty of owning a brand new unit.
I am a citizen in my twenties. I do know of university peers who are permanent residents. They are two years younger than me because they did not have to do national service. Now, they are the future co-owners of HDB BTO units because they applied for BTO units with citizen counterparts. Also to note, their income was beneath the income ceiling, one of the eligibility criteria to buy a flat. I myself with my partner, also a citizen, are not eligible because our combined income is higher than the income ceiling. Even in the HDB resale market, we are not eligible for any subsidies.
This is great injustice. While I have spent 2 years of my youth in NS and am saddled with ongoing NS reservist liabilities which is disruptive to my career, I am worse off than a free-loading foreigner. The foreigner pays less taxes because of his lower income but is unreasonably rewarded simply because he meets the income ceiling criteria. He enjoys the full subsidy and perks of buying a flat direct from HDB which only a citizen should enjoy. The foreigner did not have to provide any service or commitment to this country to earn this subsidy.
Singapore is now facing a shortage of housing supply. This policy has to be reviewed to put as many citizens first, and to prevent the wrongful disbursements of subsidies to undeserving persons.
I read with interest about suggestions by the Ministry of National Development to raise the income ceiling for buying of HDB flats. However, this must be complemented with more stringent criteria of disallowing PRs from being co-owners of direct HDB flats. Otherwise, the raising of the income ceiling would also mean more foreigners unjustly enriching themselves through this loophole.
In that case, I would rather trade places with my PR peers. Singapore citizenship would be nothing but a liability.
Mr N D
Redbean
ReplyDeleteI am sympathetic to Mr ND, but seriously you are talking of families who earn more than S$12,000 per month.
HDB is public housing meant for the middle income and lower income.
In that case, if there is no cap, will most be be happpy that multimillionaires families can buy HDB.
See the uproar over the EC penthouse.
rgds
The PAP Government should immediately close this loophole that unfairly penalized indigenious Singaporean families in favor of partial "new citizens", whose loyalty and commitment to this country is questionable based on empirical evidence that many "take profits" and abandoned ship once their personal agenda were achieved.
ReplyDeleteThe government and its officials must stop pretending that this is not a serious issue and act blur.
Time to wake up, Generals!
Hi theonion, I think you must be very rich. A $1.2m or $800k public housing is for lower and middle income? How many of them could really afford without loans from papa and mama?
ReplyDeleteredbean
ReplyDeletelet me put this way,
12K per month excluding bonuses.
means the family has MINIMUM income of S$144k per year.
if they do not want to spend 800k to 1.2M which I believe are good areas or basically EC with condo living conditions.
They can live in further areas which is a lot cheaper.
Further redbean, considering that income gap is constantly harped upon in your blog. I am find most amused on dichotomy of your article here.
Than one way to reduce it is to ensure that the median rich pay their fair share thru other means and boost the economic liquidity.
For hawker centres, yes, rentals should be kept low.
But for this housing aspect, you are to me causing welfare transfers to those who are more than capable to look after themselves.
regards
redbean,
ReplyDeletein that case, lets see
based on salary sg
72K per person means the person earns more than 67% of everybody else,
144K means that you earn more than 79.4% of everybody else which means that you are in the top 20%.
I rather than the money be used to help those more in need such as teachers, taxi drivers, bus drivers, lower level managers and executives.
By the way, do you support than million dollar penthouses.
So what to you is a fairer cutoff level S$20k per month?
theonion, these young people are even disqualified from exec condo. And forced into the private market, many would have to empty their savings and take on a big housing loan to service.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very wicked thing to do against the young people who are just starting life. They will be servicing that huge loan for a big part of their lives.
And the biggest bitch is that many have served NS but new citizens did not and are given priorities and even make money from them.
The difference betw a public flat and a private flat can come to a few hundred thousands. Why is the govt penalising on these young people and allowing the developers to fleece them when all they want is a 4rm HDB flat?
Any parent will be pissed off with the govt when their children are affected by this wicked policy.
Dear Mr N. D.
ReplyDeleteVOTE OPPOSITION if you want to change HDB policies to favour Singaporeans.
Better still.
Convert your friends and relatives to also vote Opposition.
60% of your friends & relatives voted for the PAPigs.
So 60% of your friends & relatives are responsible for your inability to get a new HDB flat.
HDB flats is a government monopoly.
ReplyDeleteThere is no reason why there should be a shortage of HDB flats in the first place ... other than an incompetent government.
Every citizen should have a right to an HDB flat regardless of income level.
Just as every male citizen is liable for NS regardless of income levels.
Be careful of sneaky PAPig arguments.
For HDB flats they say we must discriminate against rich Singaporeans.
Then for estate duties, they favour the rich Singaporeans.
2013 is the year of the snake.
The feng shui favours PAPigs snake like behaviour.
@ theonion
ReplyDeleteWhich $2 PAP company pays your salary?
Hope it's not listed in the Punggol East SMC Town Council books.
Redbean
ReplyDeleteNo, I am not rich because I have to support both my aged parents and parents in law.
What do you think is a fair cut-off level than?
to me, maybe max S$15K per month.
To you Redbean I guess S$25K.
Frankly, you are than enabling the children of the rich than to ripoff the system further.
Yes, to me the price of housing should be reduced but as far as the cut-off level, is concerned, based on the statistics used by salary.sg, the cut-off level is within reason.
/// Frankly, you are than enabling the children of the rich than to ripoff the system further. ///
ReplyDeleteI'd rather let the rich kids ripoff the system.
Than to see the poor kids deprived of their HDB flat.
In my universe, there are more poor kids than there are rich kids.
As if rich kids would want to be caught dead in an HDB flat.
Voting Opposition is like making love.
ReplyDeleteIt get easier with practice.
Say cheese!
theonion, as anon 11:16 has said, all citizens must be treated equally just like they have to serve NS, regardless of wealth or status. Every citizen that has served NS must be allowed to buy a flat from the Govt. The shit ruling on income is a PAP crap used to disqualify Sinkies from buying HDB flats and to rob them of their savings.
ReplyDeleteWhat are these NSmen training and to die for when they can't even buy a HDB flat when new citizens can without having to serve NS. I call this fuck Sinkie policy. Pardon my language.
The income ceiling is rubbish. The govt must build enough for its citizens needs. Not building is not acceptable and cannot be used as an excuse.
Minister hss reiterated today that he has made and is making housing affordable.
ReplyDeleteY are Sinkies still so cynical???
Redbean
ReplyDeleteThanks for clarifications
In that case, all the tycoons and their progenies of Singapore will be happy to purchase one and enjoy the profits as per your ideas.
regards
Anon
ReplyDeleteAre the poor kids whose household earn less than S$12k per month deprived.
No, it is only those who you claim are poor whose income is above S$12K per month.
Rich kids does not need to stay, it can be their stay away pad.
If I am rich enough, I will pay cash on the line for all my kids than.
Poor little rich kids
First point, when the govt builds enough flats, the price will not rocket like now when there is enough supply. Second, the tycoons would not want to buy public flats. This was the case when the prices of flats were stable and every citizen who wants a flat will have one waiting.
ReplyDeleteYour mind is fixated on the current faked conditions when supply was turned off, demand increases, including speculators, local and foreign in the property market.
PRs irregardless of age can buy HDB resale. Sinkies can only buy if above 35 years of age. Lesson to learn:1) Never vote for pro alien party. 2) Never vote for dead frogs.
ReplyDeleteIf so angry with them, better to get a job and migrate to somewhere where you can buy big houses and big cars at a fraction of the HDB costs.
ReplyDelete"They can live in further areas which is a lot cheaper." - you mean JB?
ReplyDeleteBy the way, just saw thru your archives in 2005 10 Nov 2005 (see after my comments)
ReplyDeleteAgreed that govt should build many flats and hopefully crash the markets.
Hopefully, it stays low than.
Hope you would not complain later as you did on 10 nov 2005.
Have a great day
Regards
By the way, as long as there are profits, everybody would like a slice of the pie.
You were complaining that the govt build too many HDB flats and cause negative equity in private flats.
Frankly, I raise my voice in the forums than saying let it be.
Frankly the govt listen too much to people like you who could never well leave enough alone.
See your article below
From redbean 10 Nov 2005
"the poorest singaporeans are still rich by $100,000
this was reported in today's paper with statistics supported by hdb, the biggest housing developer in the country. stripped of everything, even when they have hardly any money to live on, the poorest singaporeans still have an asset worth about $100,000. how true is this number? how many of these flat owners, with flats bought at peak prices during the property boom, will have any money back if they sell off their flats now? how many are still holding to negative assets, a flat that they bought say at $500,000 and now worth only $300,000 and an outstanding loan of maybe $300,000? it will be nice to know how many singaporeans are in this category of asset rich but poor people. or how many actually owe the bank more money than the value of their flats."
RB is right. The G should build enough flats for all eligible citizens to buy,regardless of income level. Such flats should be no frills and just the basics.
ReplyDeleteThe rich would be able to discern and afford better and nicer exclusive accomodation ie private properties.
After all, its not as if the G is
giving real subsidies, but market subsidies -ie no acutal transfers of tax monies to home buyers.
Unless HDB is prepare to open the books for all to see
/// Minister hss reiterated today that he has made and is making housing affordable. ///
ReplyDeleteI don't trust a PAP Minister anymore.
I don't believe they are on the side of Singaporeans.
I will only believe an Opposition Party Minister.
@ theonion
ReplyDeleteYou are obviously a Pro Alien dog like your masters.
I would rather see rich Singaporean kids who have served National Service benefit from HDB flats;
Than to see foreigners who have never served National Service benefit from HDB flats.
I'm pro Singaporean, rich or poor.
PR + Sinkie = Sinkie
ReplyDeleteWe need sinkies to breed, so we give sinkie (who are poor) subsidy buy flat so they can breed. Nothing wrong.
Now this 28 year old sinkie, having done NS and thinks the nation owe him a debt, demands his subsidized HDB, cries unfair, what do you think ?
The rules are there, have been there, and he earn so much can go buy ECs and private. Why KP ? This type of ugly sinkie might as well don't breed, breed already bring more problems.
@ ANON: February 05, 2013 4:40 pm
ReplyDelete/// This type of ugly sinkie might as well don't breed, breed already bring more problems. ///
This "ugly" Sinkie is my brother-in-arms in the army.
What's wrong with a Singaporean getting benefits from Singapore?
I prefer this type of "ugly" Sinkie to traitor dogs like you.
They are always winners and whiners in everything. Frankly, if we all live in floating houses, there will be enough land. Just google some modern floating houses, they are affordable and actually quite nice. No need to pay for expensive land.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, the world will be flooded soon, it may be more safe to live in floating houses than landed.
ReplyDeleteRedbean
ReplyDeleteLets say that Govt builds enough flats to excess that same surplus of 160,000 flats are overbuild.
Prices drop to say 2003 levels (around 500K for private), can
I assume that there will be no more articles like yours on 11 Nov 2005.
if yes, will happily applaud you than.
regards
Actually, It's so good to see all those 60.0% daft are now dancing to the tuned of samba, tango, hip-hop, line-dance and etc, that PAP is playing right now. As the useless president had said, so "Fulfilling" !!!
ReplyDeleteIn GE2016, don't forget to cast your vote again to PAP and PAP team "B" (WP).
So that you, your children, your grandchildren, your great grandchildren and the future generations to come, can dance 24/7 on the streets begging for a living.
PS : Dance harder, jump like a monkey and maybe, just maybe, those foreigners can take pity on you and drop you a dime. Now enjoy this moment while you'll still have it. Enjoy Daft !!!
Anon 3.47
ReplyDeleteLook at the rules in the HDB website for resales
It applies to both PRs and Singaporeans.
Singaporeans will get the Housing rebates for resale, PRs do not.
Not sure which rules have you read.
see www.hdb.gov.sg
By the way, for those who say rich also deserve, out of curiousity, if MBT and Ng Teng Fong can also than buy correct, so can i guess all of you will applaud.
/// By the way, for those who say rich also deserve, out of curiousity, if MBT and Ng Teng Fong can also than buy correct, so can i guess all of you will applaud. ///
ReplyDeleteWhy MBT and Ng Teng Fong cannot buy?
They not Singaporeans meh?
They didn't do their NS meh?
They don't pay taxes meh?
Why Singaporeans cannot buy?
But Aliens can buy?
Bloody traitor dog.
If circumstances allow, I would encourage younger Singaporeans to consider leaving this country for goods as the 6.9m population target will eventually lead us into chaos.
ReplyDeleteIt's either young Singaporeans leave
ReplyDeleteOR
Young Singaporeans votes out the Traitors.
Old Singaporeans.
If you want your children to stay with you in Singapore.
And watch your grandchildren grow up.
Vote out the Traitors.
They are not Pro Alien Politicians.
They are just Traitors.
Plain & simple.
GE 2016.
This is likely your last chance.
"This is great injustice" - Haha, injustice is everywhere. This is nothing compare to many others imprisoned without a trial under ISA. Is it "just" for you to earn so much money just because you are a local born? Many can take half your pay and produce twice the amount of work. If you are so good, try to go overseas and not depend on your gov to create a job for you.
ReplyDelete/// If you are so good, try to go overseas and not depend on your gov to create a job for you. ///
ReplyDeleteA lot of Singaporeans have already migrated.
We have the highest emigration rate in the world.
Our Millionaire Ministers should migrate themselves, if they are so world class.
Instead of staying in Singapore.
Creating low class cleaning jobs for the elderly.
No more Philip Yeo.
PAPigs don't know how to attract good jobs into Singapore anymore.
And our boys should stop subsidizing the PAPigs with National Service.
They should be paid market rates.
In exchange for being put in harm's way.
VOTE OUT THE TRAITOR PIGS.
theonion, the 2005 article was about the housing fiasco caused by the 1998 world economic crisis. The problems were very serious. It was bad and many property owners, private and public housing, ended in negative assets.
ReplyDeleteBut you have not seen anything yet. The property price today is so badly managed that it is pumped to the fullest and a full blown crisis is waiting to blow up. Bedok reservoir will be too small for the bodies that will jump in. Many people are taking loans of half a million, a million or more compared to the last crisis when the loans were in a few hundred thousands or less.
Please wait, be patient and when the bang comes, don't say I did not tell you. You can act smug now. Many young property owners are highly strung, in debt to the tune of millions.
Thanks to the high property price and asset inflation. Sure I say thanks to the govt as well?
theonion, the 2005 article was about the housing fiasco caused by the 1998 world economic crisis. The problems were very serious. It was bad and many property owners, private and public housing, ended in negative assets.
ReplyDeleteBut you have not seen anything yet. The property price today is so badly managed that it is pumped to the fullest and a full blown crisis is waiting to blow up. Bedok reservoir will be too small for the bodies that will jump in. Many people are taking loans of half a million, a million or more compared to the last crisis when the loans were in a few hundred thousands or less.
Please wait, be patient and when the bang comes, don't say I did not tell you. You can act smug now. Many young property owners are highly strung, in debt to the tune of millions.
Thanks to the high property price and asset inflation. Sure I say thanks to the govt as well?
So property price go up or go down, you blame Govt lah.
ReplyDeleteProperty crash (Due to global financial crisis or recession) you will blame govt for over supply of HDB flats.
Property boom (Due to low global interest rates) you will blame govt for under supply of HDB flats.
You will conveniently leave out the true cause which are in brackets and you will twist the facts to suit your purpose.
anon 9:03 you sounded like a child. How old are you?
ReplyDeleteIt is undeniable and indisputable that the government has done and is doing its best to enhance the current high standard of living much further. The parliamentarians must have been spending much of their efforts and time raking their minds to do that.
ReplyDeleteTheir dedications to the people might have caused and cost them many sleepless nights. They might even have neglected their spouses, children and parents. 真是忠孝两难也. It is difficult to be filial and loyal at the same time.
My greatest respect and gratitude to our leaders and may they live long to serve us.
Redbean
ReplyDeleteMake up your mind.
Do you want high prices or low prices or medium prices, by the way, define medium Redbean
For myself, low prices as than more money can go into businesses and enterprises.
You complain not enough flats and prices too high.
Yet when I say I will applaud when housing prices drop to that level, you than say do not be smug.
So that our kids and grandkids can purchase at cheap price.
I thought that was the purpose of your recent articles.
If not, Anon 9.03 comments would than be most apt.
Thanks in advance,
Anon 9.27 am
ReplyDeleteAge has got nothing to do with argument.
When it comes to welfare statism --and HDB is a clear example of welfare statism -- there is no "right" and no "wrong" way of going about it.
ReplyDeleteThe state ultimately decides who needs the housing more: lack lustre lazy locals, or can-do enterprising and ambitious foreigners.
HDB and CPF are used as political and policy tools by the state. It is pointless complaining:
==> YOU ASSHOLES <== bought into the system and as long as you benefited from it by upgrading and profit-taking from sales, or buying "cheap", everything is "good".
"Public" housing policy has to be tied to the policies of the cuntree's progress if social and economic engineering goals are to be achieved.
People get the government they deserve. As long as you place the government in-charge of your home, then you have to take what the government dishes out.
There is no such thing as "freedom" in the HDB/ CPF space.
If you think otherwise, then good luck on the rest of your "wishful thinking".
Got private property?
You are either for or against this kind of social engineering and the way it is distributed. But it is not welfare. It used to be but now a big ponzi scheme that exploits the people's income. It is robbing away the people's saving. Get it?
ReplyDelete@anon 203
ReplyDeleteYou misunderstand. I am neither for nor against social engineering, welfare, government corruption or massive ponzi schemes run by the government.
I am merely an observer and sprouter of opinion. I have very little contact with government (any government) , and conduct myself so I don't run afoul of their (mostly stupid, reckless or nonsensical) laws...and allow The Sheeple to choose their government, and the destiny of their mother-cuntree according to whatever means they like: democracy, socialism, fascism, aristocracy, plutocracy etc etc...I don't really give a shit.
My objective is self-interest, based on private property and individual sovereignty and nothing else.
Got self-determination?
"It is undeniable and indisputable that the government has done and is doing its best to enhance the current high standard of living much further."
ReplyDelete@ February 06, 2013 10:05 am
You must be from Sweden, Denmark, Finland or Norway.
SOURCE:
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21571136-politicians-both-right-and-left-could-learn-nordic-countries-next-supermodel
Please help us.
Our useless Traitors don't even want to retire when they reached their age of senility.
>> SOURCE:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21571136-politicians-both-right-and-left-could-learn-nordic-countries-next-supermodel
It's just another version of essentially the same thing: centrist political economy. A little bit of socialism, financed by a healthy dose of corporatism/ capitalism -- a regulated sort-of "free market" economy with a government-mandated medium of exchange -- fiat currency -- is used as the standard of account, exchange and measure of wealth.
>> Please help us.
Our useless Traitors don't even want to retire when they reached their age of senility.
Absolutely no outside help, please. The Sheeple of Singapore are entitled to their own self-determination. They must get used to accepting the responsibility for choosing their Dickheads-In-Office, and accept that they, The Sheeple are human and thus prone to being deceived, misled and coerced; but desperately need to get beyond their neurotic mental states of self-imposed victim-hood, go toe-to-toe with "authority" and their fellow citizens if need be, and kick, and fight, and punch and duck until the government they deserve is the government THEY WANT.
P.S. If they are too comfortable and/or kiasu-kiasi to TAKE ACTION, and instead choose twiddle their thumbs and play with their balls waiting for 2016 election, casting their one-lousy-vote, then I'm afraid The Sheeple are a lost cause.
ReplyDeleteStay the victim, Singapore. You did it to yourselves!
"My objective is self-interest, based on private property and individual sovereignty and nothing else."
ReplyDeleteYou can lose all these if you get the wrong type of government. They just need to change the constitution and you will end up on yoiur way to a concentration camp.
But I agree the sinkies are like lost sheeps and they go whatever their shepherds make them go including down a cliff. Thoe smart ones already get away into the wild wild world. To a certain extent,the people have onl themselves to blame for their present situation.
ReplyDelete@anon456
ReplyDelete>> you will end up on yoiur way to a concentration camp.
The possibility of that happening is always present. Even now they have the ISA and legal "emergency" powers -- which means they can do whatever they deem necessary.
Life is full of risks, uncertainty and the probability of something happening means it will happen -- its only a matter of time. Life is full of ugly shit which threatens our very lives and our freedoms...
...however, one still has to live one's life. IMO, you have to give it your "best shot" regardless of all the things that can go wrong which are not your fault.
Be wary of any reports from economist. Nordic countries have huge natural resources. Swedish people actually live in very small flats but they have a country house somewhere where they spend their holidays. They have high taxes despite their huge resources. They are not a top model to follow. There are certainly better places.
ReplyDeleteYes, but they chose that model and believe it or not, high taxes and massively regulated society not withstanding -- happiness index is very high.
ReplyDeleteThe political economy will always be aligned with the culture, because culture essentially drives everything. Singapore culture adopting Nordic political economy models: NO WAY. Perhaps when S'pore is fabulously rich, maybe. Probably not in my lifetime.
Go Vikings!
>> There are certainly better places.
Absolutely correct :-)
Redbean
ReplyDeleteGuess that the low prices for housing should your answer BASED On Your Silence and based on your 10 Nov 2005 article.
So a better and cheaper housing for us and kids and grandkids.
Regards
Hey! This post could not be written any better!
ReplyDeleteReading this post reminds me of my previous room mate!
He always kept chatting about this. I will forward this article to him.
Fairly certain he will have a good read. Thank you for sharing!
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