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2/18/2013
How many people were at Hong Lim Spring?
I was there for nearly two hours. I walked around the whole park taking photos along the way. My estimate is that there were at least 5 to 6,000 people there at its peak. But I don’t think anyone will trust me because I am not a reputable newspaper like Reuter, AFP, AP, CNN or the ST.
Who is the most authoritative or suitable party to give a good estimate of the number of people on the ground? A foreign media or a local media, an interested party like the organiser or a non interested party like me?
The number of people present and quoted by the various media ranges from 1,000, 1,500, 2,000, 3,000, more than 4,000, 5,000 etc etc…. I am just a blogger, with no official credential and professional tag on my chest. And my estimate is just layman and subject to error or not as good as the professionals. But when I look at the numbers quoted by the professionals and their media, they were so silly and hilarious. Anyone quoting a number below 3,000 obviously did not know what he/she was talking about. One can guesstimate but cannot be so far off. How could these authoritative media and professional journalists or reporters get their numbers so wrong and so wild?
And bearing in mind that many are foreign journalists, not that counting the number of people is rocket science, I would rather believe the local professionals than someone from another corner of the world. This is Singapore, and we are reporting news in our own backyard, and shouldn’t we be the most authoritative on such matters? Do we need to depend on the foreigners that came from afar to tell us what to report and what was the number of people present?
On this basis, other than trusting my own estimate, I should rightly quote the numbers from ST as the most authoritative media on this issue. Unfortunately ST did not commit any number and instead quoted a number from AFP! ‘…Straits Times reported the event with the following headline today (17 Feb) – “White Paper protest draws big crowd”. … No official figures on the number of people were available as police said they were not monitoring the crowd size, though organisers claimed close to 5,000 turned up. An Agence France-Presse report put the number at 1,000 to 1,500.’ And why AFP and not another foreign media with a bigger number? AFP more credible than the rest?
This ST quote was lifted from an article in TRE. What is happening? ST did not send anyone there and needed to use a number from AFP which is as good as another estimate? Would it be better for ST to make its own estimate and let the foreign media quote from ST? After all this is Singapore and Singapore news and ST must be the authoritative source for foreigners to fall back on in a local event. If not, there is another authoritative Singapore news source, mysingaporenews that is a local source of news. : ) It would be nice if one of the major foreign news agency quote my estimate in their reports. Heh heh.
I do not find the inaccuracies of the foreign news agencies staff abnormal. They are experienced folks but are they talented and or intelligent??
ReplyDeleteIf they were Whites; excuse them, You see; each Whites are about the size of 1 and a half to 2 and a half of the locals. So when the foreigners look at the volume and guesstimated, it was likely to be much less.
Another possibility maybe that they arrived early or late such that they were not around to have witnessed the peak.
And maybe one more possibility; they might not be actually at the Scene but relied on pictures and or hearsays.
Or they were peering into the crowd from the fringes as it was a rainy day.
As for the S Times, how many Singapureans trust it now?
But I don’t think anyone will trust me because I am not a reputable newspaper like Reuter, AFP, AP, CNN or the ST. (RB)
ReplyDeleteHi RB,
I trust you precisely because you are not from any news group or govt agency!
Incredible right. I had early morning breakfast in the field with two Germans. One Japanese and four Malaysians. I told them of how a historical protest was taking place in HLP. I told them every major news provider regionally and internationally covered it. Then I told them the state runned ST didn't even count the heads and instead quoted the AFP.
ReplyDeleteThey were all flabbergasted!
Chin Leng, this Sid why we need the internet. This is why we need to protect and if possible defend the Internet with our life. As from this incident you can alll very well see what will happen if we just trust them.
You all decide for yourself whether they are worth trusting.
Darkness 2013
My point which all of you have taken, is that what happens in our backyard we must be the authority to report on it and other news media should be checking with us for to substantiate what they want to write. Unless we are so screw up ourselves, for whatever reasons.
ReplyDeleteAs for the foreign media, the reputable ones, it is their names that are reputable. But the quality and experience of their reporters on site could be a separate issue. They could have sent in their rookies or the one supposed to be there were not there.
The Shit Times did not receive instructions on the number to report.
ReplyDeleteSo the career saving move is to report what a "reputable" foreign news source reported.
Which "reputable" news source to quote?
Quote the one with the lowest number lah!
Revision Lesson
---------------
MIW: Recruit Chua! What is 2+2?
Recruit Chua: Sir! What number do you want me to report Sir?
MIW: Very good. Definitely Orificer material.
Report for OCS Training tomorrow.
9.35am I like your humor
ReplyDeletereporter: sir, there's a BIG protest.
ReplyDeleteboss: what?
reporter: sir, there's a small protest.
boss: what?
reporter: sir, there's a small gathering at HLP.
boss: report that truth.
Haha 10.22 am I like it too
ReplyDelete50 times the crowd at PAP rallies, without free chicken rice and free buses.
ReplyDeleteIMO, less than 50,000 no pakai.
ReplyDeleteGood effort. Ineffective, but try harder next time.
"Largest protest since independence" -- folks, it's time to raise the bar...like...SERIOUSLY raise the bar.
The organisers cannot provide chicken rice and free buses for 5000. They do not have enough dignity to provide like the PAP can but only a few take up PAP's offer of chicken rice.
ReplyDeleteDignity? What dignity?
DeleteThe Singaporeans were there on their free will and conscience. They do not go there because of party affiliation or were herded there. They voted on their feet as true blue Singaporeans.
ReplyDeleteOne is known as 'Shit Times' and that means a paper that is used to wipe the arse after shitting. Can you believe in what they say?
ReplyDeleteAs for Media Corpse, just take it that corpse cannot think and are basically dead as stone. What is there to believe in what noise they make?
It is good that the PAP is going to believe that the people there are just enjoying an afternoon for fun and just to see the show.
ReplyDeleteIt is probably the same reasoning that they gave when commenting on the crowd at WP rallies and will not translate into votes.
People power is building up for 2916. Just wait and see. But let the PAP enjoy its peaceful slumber and arrogant bliss for three more years.
/// Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDeletePeople power is building up for 2916. Just wait and see. But let the PAP enjoy its peaceful slumber and arrogant bliss for three more years.
February 18, 2013 2:14 pm ///
3 more years? More like 900 plus 3 years. I don't think I will live that long to see it happening.
;)
If Afp reported 6k, then rb will shout long live afp. Now afp reported 1.5k. Rb not happy lor.
ReplyDeleteAlthough the number matters, the most important is the spirit. I think more will be there if it was not raining. Maybe 10k. Unity is strength.
ReplyDeleteAny official newspaper are subjects to political influence. THe best is to trust own instinct.
ReplyDeleteIt is very simple, it is crowded and everyone standing and thus the equation = area of HL square divided by area occupied by a person while standing (i.e. one foot square).
ReplyDeletehere is a blogger who can do some simple maths on the hong lim crowd.
ReplyDeletehttp://yawningbread.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/crowd-numbers-at-population-protest/#more-9353
Simple maths:
ReplyDeleteCrowd at peak 5,000.
3 Hrs, Rain, Covers:
Sinkies coming & going all the time into and out of HLP.
Every 30 mins about 500 leaving...over 3.5 hrs...total 3,500.
Another 1,000 hiding at shelters, buildings, bridges, MRT.
Total estimate of Singaporeans attended: 5,000 + 3,500 + 1,000 = 9,500.
If not in CNY & raining....probably double.
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