For about US$100k one can get a freehold landed property with 3 bedrooms and a garage. For a little more it comes with 2 garages in Atlanta. This is being advertised here by Reapfield Property Consultants. For the same amount of money what can we get here? A Mercedes or BMW would cost more than that.
I presume that these houses are for the average American families. They looked very good though not at good as our top end bungalows here but easily beat our terrace or average semi Ds. Good, decent and cheap housing is the basic to a good life anywhere. And the price being offered to own these properties must be well within the reach of the average Americans. These are great places to bring up children and raise a family. The quality of life cannot be worst off than the average 3 rm or 4 rm flats that the average Singaporeans are cooped in. And for that, the Singaporeans are paying double or more for the little space for 99 years.
And as we keep increasing the population given the limited land that we have, the prices of owning the right to live in smaller spaces will keep escalating. On the other hand the salary cannot keep on going up without driving our workers out of the market. The real international market forces for labour will definitely hit our workers badly.
Is there anything with the kind of housing and prices that the people are paying? The only reason we keep hearing is that we are different, we have no land. But we have a big plan to bring in more and more people to this ‘no land’ island. And the people will have to suffer the consequences of this wild and reckless agenda.
Qatar is the richest country in the world on GDP per capita. It has a population of 1.7m. But they are different, they have oil oozing out from the ground to give them the wealth. Luxemburg is the second richest and has a population of 500k. We are third and with 5m people and not enough and must increase some more. Would we use Luxemburg as a model for comparison, a tiny country with one tenth our population and doing better than us?
No matter how creative and innovative the planners are in squeezing more people into tiny shoeboxes and claiming that the quality of life is not affected, it is not what the people will agree. Sure, give the genious a free hand and they will tell you this island can be comfortable for 20m people or more. I also agree.
What are the cost and the consequences? I believe every average Singaporean would like a bigger space for living, like those in Atlanta and a car to drive around for leisure and convenience and not having to spend a life time paying for them. If we continue with this relentless drive for more people in this rock, we would end up worst than Hongkong with smaller and smaller space for everyone, and forget about car ownership. Are these the quality of life that we are working so hard for and looking for in the future or a future for our children?
Small house may be bad enough, we are also loosing all our greens. Do u notice lesser and. Lessee greenery around ? Even In par saris , the green fields are sold to build new projects !
ReplyDeleteI even hv difficulty breathing sometimes. Every where u go, u see more foreigners then your own kind. Where are we going to end ? How many are enough ? Till all natives are replaced ?
That day, I just over heard a prc pr saying they hv built a big landed property with many rooms, a garden and garage back in nan jing. She is going to retire back there.
In the mean time, she is doing a tui nah buz here. How she dodge income tax and cpf and so on.
What can I say, they do have more choices than us. Moreover, who has open the door to let them walk all over us ?
Sad but true !,
This little piece of rock is all we got. Sell it and it will be gone like Christmas Island, gone forever if freehold.
ReplyDeleteMany are already moving out . In the end , this place is best treated as Hotel Singapura.
ReplyDeleteYou won't end up with "smaller space". You can have as much space as you like. All that will happen is that you'd probably have to pay more for it.
ReplyDeleteGiven the technology now, 5 million for a modern and modernising city like Singapore, is just the beginning.
Double the population? No problem.
People like redbean are scaremongers, naysayers and negative spirits which impede the progress of the cuntree and it's sheeple. This anti-growth, anti-wealth, anti-success, no-joy, no-self indulgence, no-fun attitude is a real downer.
Life is for living. You have ambition, work hard in order to provide for your kin, and have a good time (lfe is finite) with those you value. Multiply that a few million times, and you have a great cuntree and an awesome society.
But the negative spirits will never agree. They'll never change their minds, and they'll never provide any positive evidence to back up their claims of "unsustainability" of larger populations in Singapore.
Such is their intellectual dishonesty.
Please lah Matilah. Early in the morning you start to talk nonsense. The space will be smaller and smaller and cost more and more. This is an undeniable fact. No one will believe in your rubbish if you continue to spurt them.
ReplyDeleteWhen the average household income is about $4k to $5k, how are people going to pay for million dollar properties? Can we simply ramp up the salaries of our workers and get away with it?
Enough of your jokes. Thank you.
Redbean, so early in the morning and you've forgotten what I say time and again.
ReplyDeleteI do not, and never will write on your blog or any other internet chat or forum for the purpose of being "believed".
For starters I'm a card carrying skeptic and atheist -- we reject "belief" as an idea relating to knowledge. In the intellectual realm adopting a belief is to take a very weak position.
Which is your weakness... Since you're making the claim.
Where are your hard data to support your hypothesis of "big population bad for Singapore "?
Got data? Got evidence... Or do you just have a "belief"?
700 sq km is the data. You can divide 5m or 10m pp by that. You can build how many properties on that, how many roads, how many green lungs, how many reservoirs etc are all limited.
ReplyDeleteOh you can say build up and down, unlimited space. Really?
That we are 'a little red dot' as coined by Habibi is the real down to earth unadulterated fact.
ReplyDeleteRedbean, your case is weak, tosay the least. You provide data primary school children know and expect that to back up your claim of unsustainability?
ReplyDeleteThey'll laugh you out of parliament lah, if you ever tried to make a so-called "serious" case there.
Ok, ok, you are right. Let them laugh all they want.
ReplyDeleteI must agree that if a team of planners is told to plan for a 20m population in this island, they will say 'yes, yes' no problem.
And another team will also say no problem if it is tasked to plan for a 50m population.
To me, 5m is already seeing things breaking down. The quality of life is going to be severely affected. living in a 10,000 sq ft property, a 1,000 sq ft property and a 300 sq ft property will affect the quality of life of the inhabitants.
You are free to disagree.
I'm only disagreeing with you because you consistently fail to support your claims with positive evidence.
ReplyDeleteAll you provide is opinion. Ok, ok at the end of the day it's all opinion, but opinions backed up by facts (independently verified from a myriad of trustworthy sources) is superior to the run-of-th-mill kopitiam philosophy.
Personal feelings and observations is not evidence. It's anecdotal and therefore subject of your own world view, emotions and state of mind.
In other words: completely unreliable as far as planning for the future is concerned.
What is technically possible is one thing. And I agree that 50m pop is possible.
ReplyDeleteWhat is comfortable and acceptable by the people as a good place, good quality of life is subjective. You no need to agree with me and neither I agree with you. It is just like your taste for ice cream and my preference for kopi.
There is nothing wrong even if it is opinion. And where are your facts, or are you expressing an opinion as well?
Mr Chua,
ReplyDeleteWhy you waste time writing to Matilah Singapura?
Just want to split hairs.
I dont really give a shit whether Singapore can support 6mil, 20 mil, or even 100 mil people comfortabily.
It is already too crowded at 5 mil. And i dont want to share the space or the cost of having a higher population. Period .
Hi anon, everyone is a friend here. Matilah may have his own views but it is necessary to dispel his thing so that others would not think that he is right.
ReplyDeleteGlad you agree that 5m is just about the limit. The MRTjam, the COE, the housing prices even at today's level is already hitting the pain threshold.
Thanks Mr Chua for your response
ReplyDeleteThe nearest MRT/Shopping centre is already bursting with crowds and the best part is that it is still 'not crowded yet' as there are new housing developments being built nearby.
Can you image what it is like in 10 years time when even more developments are built?
I guess in 10 years time, Sg will experience a a major exodus of Singaporeans.
USD 98,000 for a landed propert up north also , any takers ? $8 CABG already hinted some time ago.
ReplyDeleteI share the same sentiments with Anon 10:53.
ReplyDeleteI share the same sentiments with Anon 10:53.
ReplyDeleteBefore the internet the people do not have a voice. They could hardly tell the govt what they think or what they want things to be. The internet gives the people a voice to tell the govt and demands the govt to listen to the people.
ReplyDeleteWith this tool, the people must take advantage of it, take ownership of their country and home, and tell the govt how they want this country to be run. Giving up and letting a few individuals to decide the fate of your life and your children is pathetic and those who chose to be apathetic, not to do anything, deserve everything they got thrust into their faces.
The people only need to speak up, gently, to let the govt knows what they want. This is your country and this is all you got. Do not let any politician or political party sell out the country against your interest and you claim you cannot do anything about it.
Speak up, use your voice and your vote. You have power in your hands. Use it for your own good. Use the net wisely and for the good of yourself and the people.
anon 1146:
ReplyDelete> I guess in 10 years time, Sg will experience a a major exodus of Singaporeans.
People come and go all the time. at present the Singapore diaspora is about 200,000 (est)
redbean (in a stunning display of intellectual dishonesty)
> but it is necessary to dispel his thing so that others would not think that he is right.
I never claimed to be "right". You are the one making the spurious claim that a larger population is not sustainable...and now you are getting even more subjective: "desirable".
How the fuck would you know what 5+ million other Singaporesans find "desirable" or not?
I'm sure you are not a mass mind reader.
And putting me down still doesn't get you off the hook for not providing positive evidence or data to back up your claim.
It is good that this record is public. I'm all for free speech and the battle of ideas in the free marketplace.
Matilah, you are taking a position that you never said you are right. But in the same breath you are saying everyone is wrong. It is like saying the sun is red and calling everyone wrong for saying the sun in not red. Then you try to humble yourself by saying, look I did not say I am right.
ReplyDeleteWhat the....
Ah redbean, now we are getting somewhere.
ReplyDeleteAs big fan of skeptical and critical thinking, I go with the evidence and only the evidence to support a claim.
The "open borders" policy makes no claim about "sustainability" -- just open up the borders and let the people come and participate in the meritocracy. 9 million seems a decent target.
Sure it will be a bit more crowded...but the barriers to building have been lifted -- can build as high as you like now, infrastructure is being upgraded, even the water issue is being tackled.
....but then come the naysayers and the "anti progress" people with truckloads of emotionally-charged "theories" why this CANNOT BE POSSIBLE.
...and they have no evidence.
All they can say is: "Wah so crowded leh!"
And thus concluded: "9 million sure chiat lat wan!"
In a flash of scintillating brilliance they come up with a sure-fire solution:
"Don't vote PAP in 2016!" Actually add more exclamation points !!!!!!!!!!
Fuck lah. If is wasn't so predictably sad, it would be hilarious!
You talked about progress and anti progress as if they are absolute terms. Let me regurgitate this story about progress/quality of life.
ReplyDeleteThis islander was lying on the beach enjoying his sun, sea and sand. This entrepreneurial tourist advised him to go out and fish more, acquire more fishing boats and earn more and be rich.
The islander asked him then what when he is rich? The tourist said he could then enjoy a great life under the sun, free from all financial worries.
The islander said he is doing exactly that, enjoying a great life under the sun, with no worries.
What is progress and quality of life, 9m people chasing banana money, and living in shoe boxes, paying $20 every time passing thru an ERP, $1m for $3rm HDB flat, drive 3 hrs to the beach just to walk on the sand?
The Sinkie equivalent. Used to be able to buy a 3rm flat with one income at $7k. And got plenty of time to catch spiders.
ReplyDeleteNow got to work ten times harder with two pay packets, no time for family and children, just to be able to buy a 3 rm flat at $300k.
Great progress is it?
The only good thing I want to say about this peesai land is this : The Singapore Dollar - very the good , very the strong. I feel power whenever I go jalan in neighbouring countries. That's about it. Otherwise , all other things sucks ! Wink. You know what to do.
ReplyDeleteYou forgot to lick your pink meat.
ReplyDelete"The internet gives the people a voice to tell the govt and demands the govt to listen to the people.", unquote.
ReplyDeleteDont think that Singaporeans demand the Government to listen, though the people have been pleading all these years. Ideas and calls have been made foc by better educated and enlighten Singaporeans to no avail. The Rulers have long reminded Singaporeans that they are the best to be found in Sin.
So! They have no need for ideas and suggestions, therefore your articles and comments are not relevant.
Blogs are only for DAFT Singaporeans to banter with one another for fun. Matilah Singapura is one very entertaining person here. He is the most enlighten one, jeering at Sinkies in power and the ruled all the time. And he enjoys most in Sinland, he is a realistic, pragmatic man that other sinkies have to learn from.
Blogs can be for some fun but at times some serious feedback will get through.
ReplyDeleteThe govt can continue to ignore the people and do as it pleases. How long it can continue to do it and get away with it is hard to tell. No matter how hard the govt tries to preserve its power, when the people had enough, it will be voted out. It is only a matter of when.
If you are really trying to feel the pulse of the people, you must have sense that things are not so rosy for the govt anymore. If it is, they will be charging to Hougang and calling for a by election immediately. This is a govt that is struggling to hold on to power.
You may disagree and have a different take of the situation. Wait for the by election to have a better picture of the ground support.
There was a cheaper offer in France as reported in CNA News just days ago.
ReplyDeleteA plot of land with a few unoccupied brick buildings were going for slightly over a million US and freehold.
Seems like there are plenty of foreign properties that many Singaporeans can afford.
Why are Singaporeans not buying them?
The freehold property was reported to be slightly over half a million USD by CNA. And the Newsreader said something liked You can now own......
ReplyDeleteThere could be potential Singaporeans buyers. Who knows?
patriot
Anon 5:31 PM and patriot, in most cases owning property in a country does not automatically confer long term residency rights there. What's the point of owning property there if you can only stay for 30 days or at the most three months at a time?
ReplyDelete