7/22/2019

Wayang is a disease of people with no ideas

There is so much feedback and truth on the internet, why not tap on these and move the country forward? why make feedback fake? proper channels? yes but the info has always been tweaked. this show one thing, in this new economy, the top will not last long. thankfully i hope. may the next better player take over.
There is one thing i learnt during my 2 years serving the nation, it is this word called wayang. a good balance is good but too much wayang is bad for the country.

A concerned citizen


The above is part of a post in TRE under the title 'Singapore is spiralling downwards'. Just a week earlier there was this big wayang conducted by MAS inviting remisiers and people in the industry to share their thoughts on why the stock market is dying. I was not there and did not know what was actually spoken. Did they admit that the stock market is dying or just going through another wayang to show that they are doing something, to want to save the stock market? The fact that such a meeting was called is an admission that something was badly wrong despite the regular rhetoric that the stock market is doing fine, doing so well, that derivatives trading volume has been trending up.

The calling for such a meeting said two things, one, confirming that Singapore is spiralling down, and two, yes, another big wayang. why?

The fate of a stock market is a result of many decisions by the authority and would not be resolved or saved by the views of a few laypeople that attended such a meeting with their impromptu opinions, mostly not well thought through, and mainly gut feels. How could such meeting on such a serious topic be of value to save a dying stock market.

Ok, some may think I am being presumptious, that I am wrong, the stock market is soooo healthy, the best in Asia. The fact is, the number of remisiers in the industry has dropped to half, and many still around are about to fade into oblivion. Many are earning less than a cleaner in the foodcourt or hawker centre, or even an office cleaner. Many are evening receiving subsidies for their low income.

And the insane thing about this sorry state of affair is that anyone stupid enough to want to join the industry must sit and pass a series of examinations and pay hefty fees for lessons and license to earn a few hundred dollars a month. Can you believe that? A cleaner or a security guard could earn more without the next to sit for stringent examinations!

Ok, what is the beef? The problems of a sick and dying stock market are serious problems that no ordinary laymen could resolve. And if people noted as super talents earning super talent pay cannot solve the problem, did not know what is happening, how could they expect the laymen, the low down no brain laymen to tell them what to do, to come up with solutions?

This is a fundamental flaw in the thinking and approach. The highly paid professionals and management that are supposed to make the market better have failed so badly that they are looking at straws to save the day.

Come on, let's face it, if the experts and super talents are lost and clueless, no one on the street can be of any help. And when the experts and super talents are running out of ideas, the way to go is down, spiralling down. No amount of wayang is going to help.

Seriously, what really came out of that meeting? Anything useful? Did they go back and study what was discussed or it was just a show, everything forgotten the moment they stepped out of the meeting?

Do they know what is wrong with the industry? Do they want to know what is wrong with the industry? Do they have the will and guts to want to right the wrongs in the industry and save the industry? Is there anyone having sleepless nights thinking about these problems or are they just crossing their fingers and hoping that it would last a few more days before game over?

Maybe there is really no problem and nothing needs to be done. The industry is just like that, nothing can be done, like fourth stage cancer.



27 comments:

Frog Outside Glass said...

Joke Of The Century

One fine day, this one-sided conversation was heard at the PMO, immediately after a meeting in the cabinet:


Minister-With-Nothing-To-Do: "Pay correct, Sir! There is no problem in the Stock Exchange and the Stock Market. Everything is in order. They are in good hands.

Don't you worry sick unnecessarily. Be careful of your health. Otherwise, your cancer might come back or you might get a stroke. Then jialat liao!

You are an excellent paymaster. We need you to be around. So, please don't worry yourself sick. As I said, they are in good hands.

Now, Sir, may I ask for a raise in my multi-million-dollars salary and an extra six months bonus this year? I think we are still underpaid. And moreover ...."

PM: "Get out of my office now!"

Virgo 49 said...

Mr RB, they should have invited WSG and that Matilah to be their Consultants. Sure market boomed!
Or bust with their stupidty.

Forget Mr Peter Lim.Now into what's cycro currency or Bitcoin or Bit the Coins.

Famous words by our Top Leaders as scripted by their Script writers.

"We must enmpower the people" Nice quote.

They made their silliest mistakes and now they wants you to give them ways of how to save the Nation by saying "Empower the people".

They are taking all for a ride with their Wayang.

Having the citizens to sabo one another like borrowing knives to kill someone with dirtying their hands.

They allowed the PMDs to maim and killed some and the the idiots also have themselves killed that now they want the public to enforce the stupidity of their acts by reporting the offences to them.

Also, so many caught fires in their flats and they can only recommend buy a fire extinguisher in your home.

Just simply not finding a solution but just whitewashed their follies.

Getting opinions from laymen to save the industry or industries in dying Sinking Land.

Whereas they still accumulate their millions and you suckers tried to find solutiins for them

Virgo 49 said...

LKY would have chopped off so many of the Chia Liao Bee cocks.

Kim would have them tied to the cannons and fired into SKorea and the U Ass A.

Anonymous said...

They claim derivatives are doing very well, excellently well. They love derivatives. Derivatives can replace stocks. All the listed companies can get delisted, they will still have derivatives to play with.

Wait for this bubble to blow up. It would be billions of times worse than the Lehman bonds.

Anonymous said...

The industry is just like that, nothing can be done, like fourth stage cancer.
RB

But will this make the opposition strong, united and ready to be govt to take over from PAP and do a better job?

And if so, will it make PAP lose 2/3 majority or even lose coming election?

If not, fourth stage cancer but so what? ("So what" is LKY's favourite phrase, in case u dunno).



Anonymous said...

@RB,

You're wrong to say MAS & SGX talking to layman --- remeisiers & brokers are among the bloody professionals in the system --- and you're all licensed and bound under the Securities & Futures Act.

It's similar to MinLaw & Law Soc talking to lawyers, or MOH & SMC talking to doctors/surgeons, or Acra & ISCA talking to accountants.

Basically these type of talks --- the professionals in whatever various industries will simply feedback to the regulators to make it easier for them to earn more $$$$$$$$$$. That's the main purpose & outcomes for these types of talks. LOL!!

If MAS & SGX were talking to people in the street or in the MRT or in your blog, then yes --- they are talking to layman.

The problem may be the quality of the professionals (remeisiers & brokers) in the securities industry is not good enough.

The trend of Private Equity & use of structured products (using derivatives) is already there since 5-7 years ago.

Add to all of this --- S'pore financial market is too small & there isn't a critical mass of investors (retail, institutional, govt) that are big on S'pore stocks in general.

So far, most local retail are overly-focused on REITs and Trusts --- making them overvalued & driving down yields. Sinkies (including govt) are all rent-seeking, yield pigs!!! Hahaha!! Just lucky for retail investors that the whole world now is re-starting easy monetary policies & reducing interest rates, which have helped to surge yield plays like Reits & trusts.

S'pore & SGX may need to consider stock-connect with HK & China to achieve quantum leap in liquidity & listing possibilities. Of course to maximise the possibilities it would mean S'pore & SGX giving up some amount of sovereignty & control.

Of course Sinkie remeisiers & brokers who are not as hard driving & go-getting as Hongkie or Cheena ones will die cock stand even faster!! LOL!!!!

WSG

Anonymous said...

The problem may be the quality of the professionals (remeisiers & brokers) in the securities industry is not good enough.
WSG 10:33 am

This one I give u 98/100 marks.

And 2 marks gone for saying "The problem maybe..."

Should be "The problem is..."

And a lot of these remisiers & brokers look like old folks. They may be doing this just as a pastime to have some pocket money to lim kopi.

And if u happen to see a very young remisier or broker, I think something is wrong with him/her, I mean in Sinkieland lah.

Anonymous said...


Hahaha.....

Sg is a wayanging tiny city state!

You don't know meh?

The top wayang, the bottom wayang, here wayang, there wayang and everywhere also wayang!

Yes! Sg is wayanging!

Hahaha.........

Anonymous said...

So far, most local retail are overly-focused on REITs and Trusts --- making them overvalued & driving down yields. Sinkies (including govt) are all rent-seeking, yield pigs!!! Hahaha!!
WSG 10:33 am

This is no laughing matter, I mean for the Sinkie economy.

If not REITS, Trusts, property, govt spending on infrastructure, or maybe to some extent money laundering and casinos, how to grow GDP even 1%?

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ Chicken Little alarmist: “The sky is FALLING”!

>> TRE: 'Singapore is spiralling downwards' <<

Utter nonsense. Hotel Singapore is rapidly growing in awesomeness

>> Just a week earlier there was this big wayang conducted by MAS inviting remisiers and people in the industry to share their thoughts on why the stock market is dying. <<

Please lah. You don’t ask remisiers and other industry DINOSAURS who are all about to be replaced by computer hardware and code, if they haven’t already. You ask people who deploy capital to the markets --- fund managers, prop traders, family offices, lawyers…WHY aren’t they investing...and according to what most of us already know:

1 Fuck the SGX, delist, go private. Can do anything now...structured finance, joint venture...etc. **Note: The USA is one cuntry where there’s a trend in delisting public companies and taking them private.


2 Re-list on Hong Kong or China’s exchanges. Why? More money lah. Much much more. People in Singapore bo-lui lah. Kanninah, every month pay mortgage/ car loan/ $$$ etc in a cuntry where the cost of homes and cars are astronomical, and the cost of living high...no money left for stock market lah!!


3 I dun know shit about the SGX. Then some time ago I had a look….aiyoh WTF?? A few big companies dominate the market...the rest look like a champalang rojak of small timers with low values and bullshit trading volumes. Like I said, I don’t know...I’m only commenting on what I see.

FinTech is awesome

Last week I did an “experiment”. I spent the whole day out without my wallet, only using a cheap China smartphone to get around Singapore, shop, eat, meetup etc. I thought I could go the whole day WITHOUT CASH...and I nearly succeeded...until I chanced on a kopitiam which had a well-known mee pok stall, and zir cha kitchen. At places like “Food Republic”, you can use your phone to pay...at my neighbourhood kopitiam...they are still “old school”---CASH only.

Lucky for me! I spotted a couple of uncles who I’ve met many times previously since we’ve all been patronising this kopitiam for years. I asked them if any of them could spot me 20 bucks so I can order me pok and ta pow zircha. I’ll use DBS PayLah! to reimburse them.

So did the cashless experiment fail? Not really Although the kopitiam didn’t take electronic payments, I found people who were willing to exchange physical banknotes for digital transfer. So in that respect, yes it is possible to go completely CASHLESS in Singapore, like it’s already done in China.

The only reason that’s possible is because of FinTech Singapore’s FinTech is awesome.

When Redbean (and others) concern themselves with “saving the industry”, do they mean the actual industry or the humans who work for wages/ compensation in that industry? There is a difference. The finance and banking industries are doing A-OK So many new things, thanks to tech, AI and big data. Can invest and trade from phone. Previously it was from computers...and that was already awesome. Then brokerage prices rapidly fell...and now smartphones. Can buy and sell crypto. Can shop online. Can order taxi, rideshare etc. The smartphone is a financial tool which EMPOWERS the individual.

Less humans, less mistakes, more coolness for a lower cost Very fucking cool!

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

WSG posts....

The trend of Private Equity & use of structured products (using derivatives) is already there since 5-7 years ago.

Add to all of this --- S'pore financial market is too small & there isn't a critical mass of investors (retail, institutional, govt) that are big on S'pore stocks in general.

So far, most local retail are overly-focused on REITs and Trusts --- making them overvalued & driving down yields. Sinkies (including govt) are all rent-seeking, yield pigs!!! Hahaha!! Just lucky for retail investors that the whole world now is re-starting easy monetary policies & reducing interest rates, which have helped to surge yield plays like Reits & trusts.

1. Trend of derivatives may be more than 10 years. This does not mean that this is a good thing. This derivative bubble is going to destroy the global financial market in the next big bust. Derivatives are not only highly leveraged and dangerous products, they destroyed the relevants of having stocks.

2. Small financial market too small, but they act and think this is a market as big as the American market, shafting every shit into it as if the small traders and a few funds could buy up everything.

3. With the stocks not being traded while funds trade on derivatives, nothing is left worthy of being traded except reits and trusts.

Matilah...

1 Fuck the SGX, delist, go private. Can do anything now...structured finance, joint venture...etc. **Note: The USA is one cuntry where there’s a trend in delisting public companies and taking them private.

It is also happening here. Eventually all the good stocks would be delisted and leaving behind super penny stocks that have no reason to be around. It would all end up with a hollow market.

Anonymous said...


no! no! no!

wayanging is not a disease of people with no ideas

it is one of our national hobbies!

in SG, everyone is wayanging, all the time$$$$$$$$$$!

in fact life is wayang!

correct?

Anonymous said...

@RB,

///Trend of derivatives may be more than 10 years. This does not mean that this is a good thing. This derivative bubble is going to destroy the global financial market in the next big bust. Derivatives are not only highly leveraged and dangerous products, they destroyed the relevants of having stocks.///

Derivatives have been used since there is large-scale trades i.e. since more than 5,000 years ago.

The critical mass of derivatives trades overtook primary stocks trades on SGX 5 to 7 years ago. And who promoted them to retail?? All the brokerage houses & their brokers & remeisiers.

Derivatives are simply tools just like cars or kitchen knives. You can create an entire gig industry using cars or use it as a terror / execution tool --- up to you. You can create a Michelin-standard food spread with help of a knive, or go rob someone --- up to you.

Derivatives ORIGINAL MAIN PURPOSE is to REDUCE RISK. Even as a speculation tool, if properly sized & managed & analysed, it can be used to generate consistent & regular income.

Warren Buffet is one of the biggest users of derivatives, and he uses them for distressed investing and/or take large stakes in strong companies at below-market prices.

Of course remeisiers & brokers & con-sters & bank-sters & speculators saw an opportunity to use derivatives tools to take advantage of GREED and turn it into a gambling tool with associated risks i.e. 0.00000001% chance of winning big and 99.99999999% chance of losing it.

I still think if MAS & SGX want to make it big, they have to chop many cocks & do stock-connects with HK & China. Problem is HK & China may not want SGX at all.

WSG

Anonymous said...

It would all end up with a hollow market.
RB 11:29 am

The Sinkie opposition will still not be ready to be govt despite end up with a hollow market.

As a result, PAP will still win big despite end up with a hollow market.

To be blunt, the Sinkie opposition is itself hollow, even with Tan Cheng Bock joining the fray.

The moment Tan Cheng Bock was not accepted as leader of Sinkie opposition but instead have to form his own party PSP, this already speak volumes about the Sinkie opposition being hollow.

And any new party formed to fight PAP is really one too many in tiny Sinkieland. Not just hollow but also a joke for Sinkies and non Sinkies.

Anonymous said...

I still think if MAS & SGX want to make it big, they have to chop many cocks & do stock-connects with HK & China. Problem is HK & China may not want SGX at all.
WSG 11:59 am

This one I give u 100/100 marks.

And if PAP govt cannot make HK & China want SGX, u think opposition as govt can?

Oops, I forgot opposition is not even ready to be govt, so what's there to talk about what they can or cannot as govt? LOL

No wonder the opposition always lose. If I were them, I would have closed shop, unless someone sponsored me to be opposition or even to earn a living to be opposition.

Anonymous said...

What ails SGX ?

Just take a look at the screen of the "Top Volume" today. Of the top 12 instruments, 9 consist of unrecognizable warrants (to layman) - a meaningless page . . .

Anonymous said...

Just take a look at the screen of the "Top Volume" today. Of the top 12 instruments, 9 consist of unrecognizable warrants (to layman) - a meaningless page . . .
1:08 pm

How long like this already?

Since or before 2015?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1203pm said that pap will win big.

Then, what is your prediction. Pap=...%?

Anonymous said...

Prediction for GE 2019/2020 will be PAP = 85%

Anonymous said...

Of the top 12 stocks, only 1 is above 10c. The rest below 10c with many below 5c.

This is your main board!!!!

What kind of stock market is this, cheaper than nasdaq or any third world country stock market.

This is the real problem with the stock market. It is a useless and gambling stock market with little value. why?

Anonymous said...

It is a useless and gambling stock market with little value. why?
2:54 pm

Why? WSG 10:33 am already said "S'pore financial market is too small & there isn't a critical mass of investors (retail, institutional, govt) that are big on S'pore stocks in general."

But why there isn't a critical mass of investors?

So keep asking and u will get an answer from fellow bloggers.

Frog Outside Glass said...

Why there isn't a critical mass of investors in the Singapore Stock Market?

1. First, what is a critical mass of investors?

Answer: It means the number of investors required to sustain the market actively, robustly and vibrantly, irrespective of whether the market goes up or down.

2. The key words are: Active, Robust and Vibrant. What makes the market active, robust and Vibrant?

Answer: Interests.

3. How to make the investors interested in the Singapore Stock Market?

Answer: This answer has to come from the brilliant brains of those drawing millions of dollars but do nothing to attract sufficient investors to form the critical mass. If they have done so, the Singapore Stock Market wouldn't be at its pathetic state today.

4. Yet, instead, they did many things to the contrary, which are detrimental to the survival of the Singapore Stock Market. And drove , many investors away over a prolonged period of time.

As a result, there is no critical mass. Without that critical mass, it cannot last.


Conclusion: it's only a matter of time that the Singapore Stock Market joins its Creator (LKY and his Old Guards) in Heaven.



Anonymous said...

@All,

Confirm cheenas NOT INTERESTED in SGX --- they even prefer to put their cheena money into "enemy" companies & countries like USA:

Fund co-founded by China’s Nio shrugs aside trade war, to invest in top tech globally

Symptom of over-loose money policies & I lost count of dunno how many private equity & VC capital raising even in this Little Red PeeSai:

Fintech startup soCash raises $8.17m in Series B funding round

Companies are no longer devoting effort on SGX but focusing efforts to market direct to VC & PE instead. By the time some of these startups do a rah-rah campaign to IPO --- it means the owners & VC/PE investors are planning to dump shares onto a gullible public & best timing for them to cash out as multi-hundreds-millionaires or hopefully billionaires.

Yeah --- 95% of these startups will simply go bankrupt & end up burning all those millions of VC & PE dollars. But the remaining 5% will earn back 10X-100X more than what those Deep Pocket investors have thrown in.

Anonymous said...

Who would want to list in this sick market when every IPO lost money on day one of trading and subsequently every stock becomes penny stock or super penny stock?

We used to have more than a critical mass during the bull run of the 1990s.

Who killed the investors under they have lost all confidence in this market?

Who killed this market?

Anonymous said...

WSG u need to be sodomized lar posting stupid comments 😀

Ⓜatilah $ingapura⚠️ said...

@ WSG

There you go... There is still money sloshing around in Singapore, but it's not in the SGX. It has gone into Private Equity. Typical at the late cycle...financial actors become GILA.

1. Interest rates are low, cuntries all printing money, chow kah companies issuing "high yield debt" (we used to call them "junk bonds") of which 13 TRILLION DOLLARS is delivering negative yields, causing greedy fuckers to take more risk...

2. "Cheap money" from low interest & money printing encourages companies to borrow money for stock buy backs...(issue DEBT to get money for buyback...hmmm...no wonder so many junk bonds). Book value of the company...kaput. Price of shares...high. Price to Book ratio then goes SKYHIGH giving a false signal which makes the company look "more valuable" than it actually is. This causes people to buy...sending share price and valuations even higher. (good trick, and it works!)

3. IPO mania. When she valuations are all high, people are dizzy with greed and euphoria, IPOs are another way of "getting money from suckers". Nearly every IPO seen recently had the particular companies boast IMPRESSIVE valuations. Ganja companies, Uber, Lyft, vegetarian meat...etc were all valued sky-high prior to IPO. Some made it...and others did not.

4. Rate of debt growth are higher than rates of GDP growth.

5. Public companies are de-listing from the stock markets and going private. Private Equity is growing rapidly. My favourite fellas KKR, whom I've been following from the 1980s when they were the Masters of the Universe eating up every company they could find, have been growing their GLOBAL business. They've even tied up with Temasek to do deals (State Bank of India, Insurance).

One hush-hush-well-known Singapore-family PE fund (run by 2 brothers) delivered 55% return last year, previous years have all been double-digit growth. I'll bet you they probably only have minimal exposure to the SGX. 😂

WSG is right. PE is the way to go. As "primary investors" in various start-ups, by the time the "survivors" list on the public exchanges of the world, the primary investors would have made many multiples...sometimes 100's of thousands of per cent of their initial stake. eg Peter Thiel invested $500k in Facebook in the beginning. He cashed out his initial stake at $1 billion....i.e. he made 2,000 times on his original investment.

imho said...

Negative growth is not bad. Like in denmark, they pay you for having loans with them.