11/10/2017

CPF - Return to basic principles

The CPF scheme was and is a retirement scheme to provide some income for the retirees when they have reached their retirement age. They should then be living off their savings in their golden years. The original CPF scheme ends at 55 when all obligations came to an end when a person retires, take out his nest egg of a life time savings to decide how he is going to use his money. This is what a retirement savings scheme should be.

With longer life expectancy, perhaps it is logical and reasonable to extend the retirement age to 65 and the CPF scheme ending at 65. Under a normal retirement scheme like the original CPF scheme, a person should have enough savings to live the rest of his life of another 15 or 20 years. Under such a situation, the relationship with the CPF in terms of more contribution to the scheme should end. No one should need to contribute further into the CPF scheme as life after 65 can be terminated any moment.

A person should be allowed to withdraw every cent he has in the CPF. No such nonsensical things like minimum sum this and that, no such nonsense as pledging half of his assets to the CPF forever till his death.

However, the CPF scheme should offer to the people options to buy annuities or whatever medical insurance if they wanted to, strictly on a voluntary basis. Anyone can still voluntarily choose to contribute and save more if so desire with the CPF offering them more attractive terms. The important point here, the key principle, is voluntary. No one shall be compelled by legislation to continue to be stuck in the CPF scheme under whatever farcical schemes without their consent after the retirement age say at 65. Period..

A retirement scheme is to provide the savers an opportunity to retire comfortably and financially to live through his golden years. A retirement scheme is not to hold on to his money forever, after his death with many leftover to spare. There would be exceptions when some people may outlive their savings by living to the 90s and 100s. These are rarity. And one must not forget that the CPF is only one source of income to provide for the retirees. Many have other forms of support from families and relatives and other sources of income. The CPF is not the only source of financial security. At the very worst case, there would be a few that the state can pick up the tap. Why not, after living off the cheap loans from the savings of the members over a life time, it is only fair and equitable and ethical that the govt provide this last safety net.

The current CPF has been turned into a little monster when the people contributing to the scheme are held at ransom while others are feeding on the scheme like parasites, depriving the real owners from access to their money. And some happily think this is their money and not the savers money and suka suka would think of ways to take away this money from the real owners by legislation. This is unethical, immoral, and dishonourable. Only very mean people can go on living on the people's life savings as if it is money there up for grabs, with no owners. Anyone who claims that the CPF savings is not the owner’s money has very little conscience of justice and fairness. Anyone going along with this kind of devious thing is just as guilty.

The CPF scheme must have a termination date when all obligations to save would come to an end and anything more should be voluntary. Legally all money saved must be returned to their rightful owners to enjoy their hard earned money saved over a life time. Tentatively under the present life expectancy, a good ending point is age 65 plus or minus a couple of years and nothing more.

People should not disguise themselves as angels to control and keep the money from the CPF members for as long as they want while dipping into the fund for their own benefits.

34 comments:

Anonymous said...

//And some happily think this is their money and not the savers money and suka suka would think of ways to take away this money from the real owners by legislation. This is unethical, immoral, and dishonourable. //

..Uncle RB, will like to borrow Minionster Cow words: "First I would like to correct Mr Chua that the government does not suka suka take away your hard earn cPF money for various investments purposes. There r many ways to suka suka take out people's monies, Mr Chua u knows it, u may have run a business before either self or company, u have to balance the account. ..There is no free lunch, ultimately these r taxpayers monies.."

Abaliba said...


"The current CPF has been turned into a little monster when the people contributing to the scheme are held at ransom while others are feeding on the scheme like parasites, depriving the real owners from access to their money. And some happily think this is their money and not the savers money and suka suka would think of ways to take away this money from the real owners by legislation. This is unethical, immoral, and dishonourable. Only very mean people can go on living on the people's life savings as if it is money there up for grabs, with no owners. Anyone who claims that the CPF savings is not the owner’s money has very little conscience of justice and fairness. Anyone going along with this kind of devious thing is just as guilty. "


VERY SAID!

And I would add: The CPF Scheme today is not only a little monster, in fact, it is a Huge Monstrous Dracula - the Blood Sucking Dracula that aims to devour each and everyone he meets, men, women and children.

This Huge Monstrous Dracula must be stabbed with an Equally Huge Cross into the Centre of Its Heart! The Beast Must Be Killed By Hook or By Crook!

It MUST NOT be allowed to live forever at the expense of every innocent person whether citizens or permanent residents.

It MUST BE EXPOSED TO THE LIGHT AND BURNT INTO ASHES!

Abaliba said...

Correction:

FIRST line should be:

VERY WELL SAID!

Anonymous said...

Lao Hero: //.....depriving the real owners from access to their money.//


One pertinent key INADEQUACY in the CPF regulation is the way bits and crumps are allowed in utilising sinkies "OWN" CPF MEDISAVE $$$ to pay for medical fees $$$?

For example, for a typical sinkie, in ONE (ENTIRE) YEAR, TWELVE (FULL) MONTHS, 365 (LENGYHY) DAYS, only can use (a MISERABLE, MINISCULE, almost useless) $300 MAXIMUM for various scans for the WHOLE famiLEE when just 1 "simple" scan costs multiples ($$$$$) of the withdrawal CAP per year say for just one next of kin or self or spouse ...?

Many sinkies incurred $$$$ several thousands of $$$ in just one year for various scans for own self and next of kin but can only use ( the bits and crumps of) $300 cap?

Can see but cannot touch ("OWN" CPF Medisave)?

Again garment worry about over-consumpton by sinkies (& deplete the account)?

Who order the scan?

Doctors or patients?

Can patients order own scan?

Ask yewrself!

Mee recommend cap for CPF Medisave (own) usage IMMEDIATELY (by YESTERDAY) raise to (at least) $1500 for ownself & (at least) $2500 for next of kin usage per annum.

Anonymous said...

Joke
-----

You people here anyhow dare to criticize me.
Me! A General.
You dare to talk about sacking a General.

I organize a military uprising then you know.
Then everywhere also you will see my General friends.
In the civil service, in the parliament, in the private sector, in the public transport companies.

Anonymous said...


Yes! I fully agree with RB.......

(1) At age 55, members free to take out ALL their CPF......

(2) Members can choose to still VOLUNTARILY contribute to their CPF........

Problems solved! As simple as ABC!

Virgo49 said...


Why just because life expectancy is longer, must revised to withdrawal at age 65???

My friends and I retired at age 55 plus and it's our monies to take ALL OUT at age 55.

Why you worry we spend in Batam or Tanjong Pinang??

Now Genting?? It's our monies, we use what we want.

You think we come and beg from you meh??

We, Chinese got Backbones one!!

Even beggars, we will find a way to survive.

You don't anyhow keep our monies and let your wife go and punt punt, throwing good monies on Bad.

Ar least, we punt, punt and lose, we shiok!!

Why should let you punt, punt with no gambling sense and lose our monies???

Give ALL back at age 55.

Wah piang, FDs matured and you said cannot withdraw with interests.

Chow Kars.

Anonymous said...

Went for six-monthly blood tests yesterday at SGH for heart disease, and cashier said cannot use Medisave to pay for blood tests. Cashier said the blood tests don't qualify for Medisave use even though the test's on doctor's order and not for cosmetic reasons.

The PAP suka suka set the rules for Medisave withdrawal, saying blood tests for heart treatment cannot use. Heart disease not serious meh ?

Anonymous said...


When will the sg govt starts to trust the masses in making their own decisions in life?

I think the masses are ready! Long long ago!

So let the masses free to take out ALL their cpf at age 55!

The masses are free to keep or con't to contribute to cpf if they choose to do so.

Why force the masses to keep part of their cpf beyond 55? Why?

When will the sg govt starts to trust the masses in making their own decisions in life?

When?......or......Never?

Anonymous said...

When there is a narcissus government where its politicians and ministers have strong inherent narcissus mind with the false notion of their self worth entrenched in their minds you don't expect these farcical clowns and deceptive characters to have any conscience to serve the people other than themselves. But tricks and deceptions they have in plenty to con and deceive the people in voting them in power in every election by using a little bit of sweeteners and disgusting political gimmicks whereby innocent naive citizens easily fall prey to their entrapment to always vote them in.

The politicians, the ministers and the senior civil servants monstrous astronomical high salaries of hundreds of millions of dollars will impoverish the city state and eventually drag its economy down the cliff of no return. This will be inconsequential to these crooks and robbers for by this time they would have escaped with the loot to somewhere else.

Anonymous said...

This CPF withdrawal age is bull shit.

I follow all the PAP rules and laws ... so what?
Will PAP look after me?
If not, then obey and follow for what?

So withdraw at 55, 65 or 75.
Does it make any difference?

I prefer to take out all my CPF money at age 45.
Then I go overseas to live and die.
No need to see and listen to the PAP bullshit anymore.

I am sick & tired of all these Millionaire "volunteers" living on my tax money.

Anonymous said...

SMRT seeks help from DSTA and Taiwan

https://statestimesreview.com/2017/11/09/smrt-seeks-help-from-dsta-and-taiwan/
----------------------------

You see lah.
PAP government has allowed SMRT to seek help from foreign experts.

Opposition government also can give approval to seek help from foreign experts right?
So why are we so scared to vote in an Opposition government?

You scared an Opposition government will destroy our MRT trains is it?

Virgo49 said...

Hello bro 9.34

Last time used to send my mother for routine check ups.

Only allowed what's chronic sickness. Bill hundred plus can use Medisave only thirty plus.

Fed up so many procedures refer here and there, sign here, finger print here, paid CASH.

Now, once a while, Routine check, recommended blood test.

One week before Doctor's appointment. Queue so long making payment. As next week coming, will pay together.

Wah piang, within one day received demand of payment just for below $10.00

Went to Doctor's appointment, counter clerk will said loud loud you still owe MONIES.

Said back loud loud, You scared I ran away s $10.00??

My CPF Medisave still got 30 over K. Lucky she did not said.

Once you come in to stay in our hotel, your 30K kaput.

We put our scalpel to good use.

DONT play play.

Anonymous said...

hi 1001am

I m not an expert in cpf

but I think if you wish to live overseas and die there

you can take out ALL your cpf if you throw away your sg citizenship

but please consider carefully

Singapore..........not that bad leh!

Anonymous said...

@ November 10, 2017 10:13 am

“The DSTA engineers, with their competency in delivering capabilities for Singapore’s defence and security, have the know-how to manage complex engineering projects from concept to deployment, through to mid-life upgrades and replacement.”
-------------------

If DSTA and the Taiwan engineers are doing all the work .... then what work is Desmond Kuek doing ah?

Does it take 10 years to mental masturbate that former CEO Saw Phaik Hwa may need to be replaced?

Does it take another 5 years to mental masturbate that foreign (Taiwan) engineering experts has to be hired?
You know.
Real foreign talents with real expertise who can upgrade Singaporean skills.

Not the fake talents that have been imported so far.

Seriously.
What Singaporean skills have been upgraded by watching foreigners drive around in a circle late at night every year at Formula One?

Anonymous said...

/// but I think if you wish to live overseas and die there
you can take out ALL your cpf if you throw away your sg citizenship ///
November 10, 2017 10:17 am
----------------------------

Is it true?
Only the PAP laws and PAP Ministers are saying that I have to throw away my Singaporean citizenship?

This does not mean WP laws and WP Ministers will say the same thing.

Anonymous said...

There is no way cpf can pay 100% at 55. CPF needs to pay "external debt" to 100% PR. This is guaranteed.
There are 55k PR+new citizen per year (20 to 30% might end up cz)
25 years of mass immigration created 1.4 millions PR. 70% remain as PR=1 millions PR. 30% left, fixed number remain is around 600k to 700k PR.

1PR earns $4k, cpf is 0.37at 4k=1.48kpm.
25 years working, a pr makes=1.48x13x25=481k CPF

PR come and go. Now it might have 600k to 700kPR died hard working for 25 years. The CPF debt to them is 481kx650k=$312,650k.

1. Let the realistic figure be 50% of the $3130.4 billions on PR
the total is $157 billions. This is 50% of GDP total est to be $300billions.
2. The public debt is maxi at 111% of GDP.

Therefore, it is unlikely to go back to 100% payment at 55.

The only way to get CPF more and not less is vote for opposition in GE.

Pap will get in more Employment Passes from sunny land to convert to PR quickly. These PR make CPF for the elite to spend on the borrowed money. The figure is now about 50% of GDP if the figures are correctly estimated.

The bigger the PR, the bigger the minimum sum. Reason: PR can draw out 100%. Citizens therefore can draw out less only.

This is the terrible trend. The young generations will have almost nothing to draw out at 55, after another 50 years. 50years of mass immigration will grant 3 millions PR ( about 20%- 30% new cz).
All these PR and new cz will want to get 100% CPF into pocket.

Better vote for WP to curb the immigration.

agongkia said...

Good afternoon my respectable Lao Chek.
Seepeeap is a form of tax and with your contribution,we can be what we are today cos the money goes into building flats to ensure everyone has a roof.Our competent civil servant like you need to be paid well to avoid taking kopirui.
Even if they use the money to punt here n there it's an investment to ensure the money well spent so as to give you more comfortable life.
They are acting in good faith for our benefits but even if lost,it's acceptable as nothing is an offence which is done in good faith.
Where got punting sure win one.
You support the idea 40 years ago so you should continue to support.
We should stop dreaming cpf is our money.At least it can be use for insurance premium like I earlier suggested before they implement,to ensure we can afford expensive medical treatment and not burden our children.I think they kapo my idea on insurance.
I strongly agree all seepeeap to be cheongkong to help every sinkies in medical fees.
I only pity those pokkai employers having to top up medisave even if they not doing well or face closing shops.
Otherwise it's near perfect.

Anonymous said...


CPF really no good?

If CPF is really no good for the people, why still a massive 70% voted for PAP!

Why? You tell me lah! You tell me lah!

Anonymous said...

CPF is a way for Pap to borrow money to spend on "long term" like UBS shares, then cut loss, 1 batch sold at USD4 billions loss.
More foreigners PR will increase CPF total.

TPP will open the border for foreigners as far as Mexicans to take up PR. Good for this little dot: salary can be $200pm for cleaners. Mexicans will love to live here and thus vote for Pap, besides pinoys. Peru big men can be retailers at John little. This island will boom in manufacturing and retail trade with cheaper labor from TPP.

Virgo49 said...


Hello Ahgongkia, Employers DONT contribute Medisave for you lah. It's the Board who proportionate the contributions into what's OA/SA/M.D. or Whats terms.

Dont forget the employees also contributed their shares. What's employer's big deals in contributing the CPF's for employees.

They already calculated the total cost of the salaries that They are offering you. DONT be stupid, you think employers so generous to give you a package that they contributed the CPF amounts so generously to you.

That's why the salaries offered are low and stagnant.

Whatever monies goes to CPF or to you are your deserved remurations.

What's pitiful employers ought to contribute CPF's for you.

DONT be conned by that Wheelchair bound NMP. who speaks nonsense.

Just because the government gave you one two hundred and your few hundred thousands is also their monies.

Anonymous said...

DOES THE FOLLOWING SOUNDS LIKE AN IDIOT TRYING VERY HARD TO MAKE USE OF HIS BRAIN?

@ November 10, 2017 12:21 pm

/// Good afternoon my respectable Lao Chek.
Seepeeap is a form of tax and with your contribution,we can be what we are today cos the money goes into building flats to ensure everyone has a roof.Our competent civil servant like you need to be paid well to avoid taking kopirui.
Even if they use the money to punt here n there it's an investment to ensure the money well spent so as to give you more comfortable life.
They are acting in good faith for our benefits but even if lost,it's acceptable as nothing is an offence which is done in good faith.
Where got punting sure win one.
You support the idea 40 years ago so you should continue to support.
We should stop dreaming cpf is our money.At least it can be use for insurance premium like I earlier suggested before they implement,to ensure we can afford expensive medical treatment and not burden our children.I think they kapo my idea on insurance.
I strongly agree all seepeeap to be cheongkong to help every sinkies in medical fees.
I only pity those pokkai employers having to top up medisave even if they not doing well or face closing shops.
Otherwise it's near perfect. ///

Virgo49 said...


Right Bro 2.12

So far the punting or so called Investments by the Duds are losing monies.

Where's comfortable lives for us??? It's because they are trying to recover the lost that they kept moving then Goalposts of the withdrawal of our CPF's monies.

This Agongkia is a Daft/dud who is being conned by his Masters.

Cheers

agongkia said...

Aiyo,You Know what's take home pay?only Salary that is bank into my account is my pay.Rest whatever you call it should be seen as a contribution as a loyal citizen ,to our nation n its only logical to let our professional use it as it deem fit.Their main objective is for you n your children own good.
I recall read somewhere one respectable Dr Toh Chin Cxxx did talk about this contribution is a burden to employers as our towkays will be shamed,fined or may be jail if fail to contribute on our behalf.
So dun take it that it's no big deal for such honourable task.How many really appreciate our towkays effort for helping us to contribute.
You oso towkay before right?
What I mean is our towkay has to contribute their own outstanding medisave cpf in order to renew licence whether making loss or not.
If this clause can be more flexible,or when they oredi meet the minimum of 49 k or so,instead of asking them to pay more thAn they can afford, ,it's a perfect scheme to me.My towkay every year has to beg for instalment for licence renewal to run his kachang puteh business .But die die suport the you know who.
Cheers

Anonymous said...

Two facts are certain:

If the PAP remains in power, forget about getting the bulk of our CPF at 55. It is an exercise in futility!

If the PAP loses power, nobody can be sure that there is money left in the CPF to return to retirees at 55, both past and present.

Just keep pushing and maybe we can have the answer.

Anonymous said...

3:01pm
Your part 2 could be 75% chance factual.

Look at the rate given to public: returns is 3.7%.
US time deposit 10 years is 2.75%, risk free returns.
The expert investor from public fund could promise 3.7%, less than 1% difference, the the risk they play can be as fatal as USD4 billions loss in 1 batch. Indirectly, they might have already having many dead stocks holding similar to UBS.

Once scenario 2 opens up: the bigbang will be mind blowing.

b said...

70% voted for pap lah.
They want mandatory ns, mandatory cpf annuities, lousy mrt and high paid monkey ministers.
So how?

Anonymous said...


No point kpkb kpkb kpkb about the cpf.

As long as they are in power, your kpkb-ING will not change anything.

We better pray hard they don't shift the goal post further!

What can you do now! You tell me!

Opposition parties? Are they ready? Tan ku ku?

Virgo49 said...


Ahgongkia, Directors and sole or no sole proprietors and even now any businesses self-employed also must contribute Medisave.

Or else, your vocations or licenses cannot be renewed.

This is the NOOSE that they put around your necks.

Who's the Boss??

Lam Pin what Yin said there will be no COE price increase on Zero Cars Population,

Talk cock. see first bidding!!

Next would be worse.

Their ploys for what's wrong with collecting more monies.

Employers now very the smart or screwd. They take the CPF's contributions as your salaries in consideration.

CPF's how much less the Basic salary.

That's why graduates only S$1800.00

Worse than Grade III clerks.

How much our MPs allowances in Parliament eh??

Anonymous said...

I smell a big fat rat in this zero cars population growth.

There cannot be no COE price increases with this measure. It defies logic.

I can only see two reasons for this. Firstly, curbing car population helps to reduce congestion on the roads, a logical conclusion, no doubt. Widening roads and building flyovers failed to ease congestion in many areas. This measure therefore eases the problem for the Transport Minister.

But it also means less revenue from COEs, which has to come from any price increase in bidding. Or have they thought of another way of generating revenue to offset this? Something like mileage tax or island wide levies the moment cars leave the car parks?


Anonymous said...

/// I smell a big fat rat in this zero cars population growth.
There cannot be no COE price increases with this measure. It defies logic. ///
November 10, 2017 5:37 pm

No need to think so hard.
Ask yourself.
If there is anything good, will the PAP government call you or not?

National Service ... they call you.
Good jobs they call you or they give it to a foreigner/PAP General?
Since when have anything they done over the last 15 years benefited Singaporeans?

So the way I think is.
This zero growth COE will not benefit Singaporeans.
Nothing PAP do will ever benefit Singaporeans.

So no need to think so much.
Guilty until proven innocent.

Anonymous said...

Frantic bidding for COEs leading to higher COE price. They tried to con the daft that COE prices would not go up.

Anonymous said...

Rest assured they are arrogantly conning the daft, not just trying.

Like GST, which they claim is helping the poor, and which defies logic, what do they do when they increase the rate? They throw back chicken wings in the form of rebates (for a limited time only, mind you) after taking from them one whole chicken each and every time. And what happens? All is quiet on the issue and problem solved. The next GST increase will see the same action because the formula works all the time for the PAP.

Ditto for COE's going skywards because of zero cars growth. A little wayanging in Parliament if the protest gets too intense. A rebate for car owners who bid for COEs and I can assure you the dafts will take it lying down. Problem solved.

Daft Sinkies and the PAP work hand in hand like clockwork. Never miss a click as always.

FL said...

This piece is a classic. Well written with good rebuts. Ppl are now more educated than say those decades ago. Ministers of all ranks, president, superscale civil servants, etc do not depend much on cpf to survive their old age, but low salaries workers are the strugglers and retirees need their cpf. We should not hold on to somebody's own blood and tears money during their old age. All of us have one life to live.