8/01/2017

Another stupid article - Is Malaysia next after Sri Lanka falls knee deep in China’s debt trap?

This article appeared in The Independent site written by a Veasna Var, a PhD candidate and a Sovinda Po, a masters student. The gist of the article is that many countries are heavily in debt to China for borrowing to build infrastructure and commercial projects in their respective countries. Sri Lanka is supposedly drowning in debt to the tune of US$64b of which US$8b is owed to China.
 

Cambodia also owed 80% of its bilateral debt of US$3.9b to China. Next comes Malaysia, with Chinese firms investing some US$35.6b in projects in Malaysia and another RM56b for a high speed railway linking KL to Singapore. And after signing for RM143b worth of projects last November, Najib is back in China to ask for more funds and more projects. It is China’s fault again! Najib is so gullible and is begging to be duped again and again to get Malaysia into bigger debt? The bomohs in China must be working very hard on Najib to make him fall into China’s debt trap.
 

What is important and often ignored is that the debt is made up of concessionary loans or grants to these countries which means at very favourable interest rates. What is also not mentioned is that these countries are the beneficiaries of investments and infrastructure developments as a result of the loans and grants.
 

The big question, why is this China’s fault? Did the authors understand that it is these countries that went to China to ask for cheap loans to rebuild their countries and to ask China to invest in their countries? Are the leaders of these countries idiots that blindly went to China to ask for cheap money and investment only to end up in huge debts? Did these leaders know what they were doing, why they were taking such huge loans and grants and would end up in big debt if they mismanaged the funds? Is this the fault of China for being generous and helpful to offer cheap loans and investments at the requests of these countries?
 

Did China put a knife at the throat of the leaders of these countries to accept the cheap loans and grants? Who is doing who a favour in such deals and agreements? Who are the beneficiaries of the cheap loans and grants? With the hundreds of millions or billions of dollars, did these countries benefit anything at all?
 

And if these countries mismanaged or make losses as a result of these cheap loans and grants and investments, why is it China’s fault? All these silly academics only see one side of the picture, China is benefiting and the countries enjoying cheap loans and investments are the losers, not gainers?
 

Why did not the leaders of these countries go to the West to ask for cheap loans and grants for the same reasons, for more investments? The West would not lend them the money? Or the West would charge them higher interest rates and higher development costs?
 

Are the authors of the article thinking individuals or thinking but with flawed logics, as good as unthinking? Or they have different agenda to paint the generosity of China as black?
 

What do you think? Why are the leaders of these countries forming a beeline to China for cheap loans and grants voluntarily if these are bad for them? Should they be running away? Are these leaders fools and willingly be conned by China? China is not their colonial masters and did not put a gun on their heads and tell them to sign or else as the West did in the past.

48 comments:

Anonymous said...

Isn't it the same with countries involved with the IMF and World Bank? When countries borrow from them, they are basically controlled by these bodies financially and thus totally. True, these are supposed to be independent bodies, but who controls them is an open secret.

With China stepping in to offer loans, it is a competitor for IMF and World Bank, thus it cannot be tolerated and must be demonised, by hook or by crook. You can guess this coming with the imperial warlord and its closest allies refusing to be a member of the development bank headed by China set up few years ago.

Now the poodles will bark louder and louder as ordered by their masters. You can bet on it. Like in red dot.

Anonymous said...

These writers with an anti China agenda would distort facts and telling half truths to deceive the readers. They would not tell about the infrastructures and investments that these countries benefited and only barked that they have a lot of debt to pay.

What would they expect, free loans, no need to pay?

China is setting a debt trap and all the leaders foolishly, never think, voluntarily went to China to fall into China's trap? Are the leaders fools or these writers telling mischievous fake news?

Anonymous said...

The names of the authors give a clue to their origins and agenda, just like those clamoring for Singapore to stay open to more "talents" from India, or for DPM Tharman to be PM . . .

Dan Yong said...

Hi Red Bean,

Nice retort to that retarded article from India. That article is obviously written for simple people with the aim to stir up anti-China sentiments. There is a media campaign in the west and in India to cast negative aspiration on China (and Russia too for that matter) and make China and Russia the enemy. At the same time, the mistakes that the west makes and all the corruption and warmongering therein are whitewashed or conveniently glossed over by their western controlled press.

Anonymous said...

Country with money will loan to those with little. It's just like a Rich man loaning money to the poor to tie over a financial crisis. Rich and poor all know after a loan period, you have to pay. This will include the actual loan amount plus interest. Nothing surprising. So, what is the fuss about?

Anonymous said...

Go read about Suhato acted on one old man s advice, took IMF prescriptions, got its GDP growth from 7% to -13% on implementing IMF bitter pills.
This is the conclusion: "‘’with the IMF’s involvement 10 years ago the crisis plunged deeper than necessary,’’ says Rizal Ramli, former finance minister"

When US crisis was spreading, IMF offered INdon loans some $2 billions. Indonesia SBY was not interested. This is the truth. The old man was quickly removed as advisor to see IMF implemented its "benefitial" programs in Indonesia. If IMF was so good, why SBY was not keen? Jokowi as alleged to have borrowed frim IMF. It was clarified by IMF Indonesia did not owe to IMF. Indon was only accepting the SDR facility given by IMF to all countries.

This PHD student presented his article with motive to discredit lender China. There is AIIB if Indonesia want to take loans. No need IMF and China.

Why did Indonesia borrowed from China for its high speed rail projects? We do not need a PHD silly student to tell us. Indonesia need high speed rail now or later? If later, then Indonesia needed loans from China?

Najib needed the high speed rail now or 100 years later? It is up to Najib to think. Not up to the PHD student to present his biased thesis.

This Phd student presented that Malaysia was adopting China s high speed rail. This is not correct. The dragon son had told Abe he hoped Japan could win the High Speed Rail tender. How could the Phd student know the tender result now?

Yesterday there was an article on all sin stuff: one presidential race by name presented an article that sinkies if siding with China would be considered to have committed treason. This Phd s article was the second one of similar intention to discredit China.

China being a trading partner of sinkieland and feeding the retailers in sinkieland with $1 billions of shopping/ buying cannot be considered Sinkieland s enemy.

One article said China dare not to fight with India because India s strong naval base at Nicole island can choke off China s fuel supplies through Malacca straits. So this Phd should not have worry that China throwing money on Malaysia can take away India s special interest in Malaysia. India is already at upper hand in the Straits, India can throw more money than China to Malaysia to start India High Speed rail projects in Malaysia, similar to the Japanese Abe. Najib will come along, if the loans have no "bitter pills" similar to IMF, and the Interest Rates are better than IMF. Agree? Indian must show they have deep pockets to beat Chinese s softest loans terms. No use of writing article similar to the "treason" article, they are terrorising the scared sinkies readers to IMH.

Virgo49 said...


These bloody black ants are so damn jealous of China's capabilities both in Financing and abilities in.building vast infrastructures that they must go all out to derail any projects or proposals by the PRC.

They are only so-called good in giving their two cents worth of intellectual rubbish. What's the fark for only good in writing and talking but no action.

This article will be pick up by our so.called Intellectuals in.the School of LaCha Rajatnam.

They will further add sauce and vinegar and salt to further the Ah Neh cause.

Only the School of LKY will rebutt them but will also be damnwd shut by the loving yellow bananas who loved the white spurts from the blacks.

Anonymous said...

IMH should take this Phd student and his partner, both need bitter pills. The standard of the article insulted the Phd standard most people expect it to be.

The PHD student s standard at Independent is nothing more than an "O" level essay. Few will go into this site to check article because of the low value articles.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Dan Yong, welcome to the blog. What is alternative news and what is fake news? Readers must be discriminating and thinking to tell the difference.
Sometimes a little commonsense is enough to smell the rat.

Anonymous said...

Every country now has multiple choices to get soft loans with the best terms acceptable. IMF, World Bank, ADB, AIIB and even from China. They would compare all the terms and conditions before accepting the loans. The fact that they went to China means that the terms must be the best. They would not be so stupid to accept the worst terms if China is bad.

Ask, why they did not got to India for cheap loans?

Dan Yong said...

Hi Red Bean. I am Daniel Yong. You will remember me for posting the facts about the South China Sea islands and reefs being recognised by other countries as belonging to China.

Anonymous said...

India is the top borrower of world bank. As of Dec 2015, total USD 105 billions. India s cash reserves was around USD100 billions, repayment should be life time long.

If India want high speed rail, borrow money from China now is the best options. US has no high speed rail. Another option is to borrow from Japan Abe to build high speed rail.

When high speed rails are running from Malaysia to Pakis, Indians are still struggling with Cow wheels Gu chai. This Phd needs to think deeper. First is to cleanse his sour grasp mentality. Otherwise, his whole life can never taste the speed of china high speed rail at 350 km per hour.

The Dragon Fly said...

One cannot simply barked as loud as possible to attract attention to something that is not. It is just like crying "wolf".

One has to look at the facts and figures in order to determine how deep in debt a country is and whether it will be able to repay the loans.

Facts and Figures on National Debts:

Malaysia

National Debts as at 2016 Dec was 53.2% of GDP

Philippines

National Debts as at 2016 Dec was 33.71% of GDP

Singapore

National Debts as at 2016 Dec was 112.03% of GDP

Japan

National Debts as at 2016 Dec was 220.96% of GDP

So, compare Malaysia with Singapore and Japan, Malaysia is still on the safe side. Malaysia is only half in debt as compared with Singapore and only one-quarter of Japan's national debts.

Will Malaysia be able to repay her debts? Of course, very easily. Not only because of the vast amount of natural resources and potentials, her GDP is still growing at a rate increasingly faster and bigger.

Anonymous said...

As far as the drogatory article is concerned it clearly shows the writer and his likes are sour grapes. They must write something to disparage and denigrate China's achievements which they found themselves lacking far behind. They with the encouragement of the Japs and Yankee warmongers try to throw a spanner in the famous world supported Belt & Road trying to derail the ongoing project. India should be brave and bold enough to get out of the BRICK's group and Shanghai Organization, since both were initiated by China to get rid of the clutches of Western imperial ( European, American and Japanese ) dominance in the world's financial and commercial structures. The writer has exposed his warp and sinister thinking which has actually resulted in the world despising the likes of his kind. What a disgrace? It would be more honourable for the writer to persuade India to leave the two brain child organizations of China and not just tailing behind hoping to get some benefits.

Southernglory1

Tuesday, 1st August,2017






Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Dan Yong, it's a long time since you last posted.

India has chosen not to participate in the BRI for political reasons. So be it. The belt and road will just by pass India.

As regards to debt as pointed by Dragonfly, it clearly showed how foolish it is to bluff the readers by claiming Sri Lanka or Malaysia going into a debt trap. And according to the article, Sri Lanka has US$64b debt and owed China only US$8b which is a small portion of its total debt but drummed up as a big problem because of China.

Talking about fake news.

Anonymous said...

One SBD bank is helmed by ah neh for many years already and svc std gg downhill from personal experiences of many consumers of retail banking?

The other 2 banks BOU & CBCO NOT helmed by ah neh customers svc experience much better ...?

So trust ah neh svc std and competence or not, yew decide ...?

Anonymous said...

Are these leaders fools and willingly be conned by China?
RB

Of course these leaders are not fools. Sure there are pros and cons when a country borrows money.

But even if there is really something bad about borrowing 2from China, it may still be the lesser evil as compared to borrowing from World Bank, IMF or whatever.

Just as majority Sinkies think it is still the lesser evil to vote for PAP as govt even if PAP is bad, as compared to voting for the disunited opposition.

The Dragon Fly said...

Two Armed Robberies in Two Days!

On Monday, 31 July, at about 12:50pm, a armed robbery at a Shell petrol station along Upper Bukit Timah was carried out by a 48-year-old man, who was arrested by the Police later on the same day.


Today, at about 10.50 am, another armed robbery tok place at a shop at
Block 301 Ubi Ave 1, according to the Police. It was carried out by a male armed with a knife. No other details were disclosed yet.

Are these the signs that we have been expecting, due to the influx of millions of foreigners and illegal stayers, as well as Singaporeans having lost their jobs?

For every reported case, how many went unreported or purposely not reported by the Main Media?

If you go to all the main shopping centres, you will see a sign board indicating the number of shop-lifting and arrests made on the increase. This is another indicator of something is not right in the Singapore's economy and the resultant hardship being suffered by either locals or foreigners in Singapore.

Anonymous said...

Haha

True, these are not just the two cases happening in red dot. Around neighbourhood areas you can see signs telling people about crimes committed and asking for witnesses. Not occassional but frequent at that.

What to expect when we are becoming a 'boh cheng hu' country? 'Cheng Hu' with astronomical salaries, but 'boh chap' type, typical of third world countries. And the one-time chief of our 'boh chap' cheng hu used to make sarcastic comments about JB being a crime infested place.

I thought there was a song and dance about engaging more law enforement officers, but the effect does not reflect the situation. What happened?

Anonymous said...

Our Cheng Hu and state organs too busy with fixing political opponents. Therefore no time for law enforment duties. Digging for bones is a very tough job you know! And lots of people are involved.

Anonymous said...

$1k. It was on Monday.

$2k. It is Tuesday.

For Wednesday robbing $3k. hey, sell the bike. All robbers have bikes. Why go to jail for max 10years terms. People stole $50 millions got 2 years only. Need $1k $2k $3k, just borrow. It is easier than robbery.

No job is serious in Sinkieland. 2.8 to 3.4% only.

Anonymous said...

Despite more occurences of robberies etc, will PAP still win the next election?

Anonymous said...

Yes they have more law enforement officers. Those cardboard types that stands at shops pointing their fingers at you. Why at you?

Anonymous said...

Even though more incidents of crime, it is still not that bad as compared to other countries.

Some more in other countries the opposition is very strong and can replace the current govt in an election.

So PAP is very lucky that the Sinkie opposition is not strong and the crime situation here is also not as bad as in other countries.

So let it be lah.

Anonymous said...

How can PAP loose? They have perfected the art of shifting goalpost to win.

If that does not work, find faults with the opposition MPs using state organs to disqualify them from standing for election.

Like that, can win or not I ask you?

Anonymous said...

Not many Sinkies want to be policeman or woman lah.

That's why need "cardboard policeman" to psycho lah. No fish, prawn also good mah. At least better than nothing, tio bo?

Anonymous said...

Should be "no fish, mock fish also good mah".

Anonymous said...

Tio! You all so clever one. With people like you all around PAP sure rule forever and ever one. No police men or women never mind. Just use robots, cardboards and talk-rots can liao. Some more very super obedient and cheapest. Sinkies are so lucky. Got this type of people and this type of garment. I wish I can be a Sinkie now!

Anonymous said...

US, Singapore Conclude Biggest Army Exercise (against China ?)

From July 17 to July 28, the United States and Singapore conducted the latest iteration of the oldest exercise between their two armies.

Read more: http://thediplomat.com/2017/08/us-singapore-conclude-biggest-army-exercise/

Anonymous said...

China’s military parade on Sunday and the comments made by President Xi Jinping at the event to the assembled troops to defeat “all enemies that dare to offend” China’s national sovereignty, security and development interests – was watched by military observers from India, Japan, Singapore and around the world.

Read more: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2104905/chinas-show-military-muscle-gives-neighbours-plenty

Anonymous said...

Uncle rb,

Mee used to comment a fair bit here.

But when it stopped, it means no point commenting further?

Y?

Bcos bo yok kiu liao?

It is like the dilemma of the mosquito on a naked beach?

So many screw ups around that it is too cumbersome to kpkb anymore?

Cos if kpkb, will need to kpkb from morning till dusk till mid nite (given the countless issues prevalent)?

Remember!

When comments get lesser, it means the situation getting more HOPELESS?

When 70% become 99% next time, it means almost every single songkie who "hate" PAPigs to the core (and bones) vote the PAPigs ...?

So as to precipitate an earlier IMPLOSION (and DEMISE)?

Ha ha ha

Serves the old fart right?

His legacy will be no more in less than 1 decade after he burned to ASHES?

Anonymous said...

The JLB kns!

Must vote 99.99% next time, let the situation implode and make them crash on their face!!

Any lesser outcome does not bring justice to their hideous beans!!!

Anonymous said...

Those leaders are good. They get cheap loans from other countries.
Better don't follow those evil leaders who force their citizens to give them cheap loans. Can don't repay also.

The Dragon Fly said...

Singaporean voters are basically divided into three groups, viz:

1. 30% pro-PAP and staunch PAP voters.

2. 40% neutral but cannot help themselves and due to their livelihood have no choice but think that voting for PAP is safer because they do not want to see any big upheaval in the country that will affect their livelihood suddenly and badly.

3. 30% anti-PAP voters, no matter what the PAP does, will always go against the PAP because of many reasons - injustice, unfair practices, inflicted hurts in the past due to land-grabbing law and other things PAP had done to them, e.g. use of the ISA and ISD, use of the court to sue them bankrupt till pants and panties also drop, use of the Organs of States to suppress, depress, oppress, instill fear, intimidate, character-assassinate, and so on and so forth.

Since, for almost 50 years, Opposition Parties have not been able to make any headway to show themselves capable of forming a good government to challenge the PAP, then they should not continue with the same tactics and strategies that they have been doing. If they do continue in the same manner, nothing will happen. PAP will continue to enjoy at least a 65% of total votes.

So, if Singaporeans really want to see Singapore develops into a proper Democratic Country with fair playing fields, the Oppositions' political tactics and strategies must change - DRASTIC CHANGE!

In fact, there is only ONE Strategy:

Do not give any legitimacy that Singapore is a Semblance of Democratic Country when it is actually a Dictatorship. Let the whole world know that Singapore is a true and true Dictatorship.

New Tactics Required:

1. Do not participate in any Elections. Boycott all elections.

2. For those who wish to join a political party, go and join the PAP.

3. Close all other political parties and let only PAP be the only political party available in Singapore.

4. Help to ensure PAP grow as large as possible so that it becomes a FAT CAT that cannot move - physically lazy and sloppy, mentally sleepy and crippled.

5. Form a Freedom Movement for all young people in the Secondary and Tertiary Institutions, Business Enterprises, Employees and Workers, including new citizens who are eligible to vote. Help this Freedom Movement to grow and grow, until it becomes a force to be reckoned with.

6. Be patient and buy time. Do not be rash, hasty and go against the laws and get sued for nothing. But sometimes, purposely get sued in order to draw attention and in order to bring out the weaknesses of PAP.

7. The end justifies the means!

The above are only my own opinions. Others please feel free to rebut.

virgo49 said...


Hi The Dragon Fly.

Your stragedy will backfire. Falling into the hands of what the PAP plots.

If you boycott the elections just like what the Barisan Socialist under Lee Siew Choh did the last time in 1963 with their 13 elected MPs out of Parliament, you gonna let the PAP have absolute power forever.

The citizens who supported the Barisan were pissed off by Dr Lee's mistake that many gave up the Opposition role.

The Opposition just like the WP must soldier on and weather all the injustices and fight to still win elections.

No matter how many sests the opposition wins, at least there is some voice in Parliament. If the PAP kept abusing their powers and as when there is a time when their undoings affect many lives in hardships, you will see a downfall of their power.

Remember the saying. We can put you there, we can bring you down. This is what the PAP feared most as the sentiments of the electorate can be frightening.

They have stringent laws that already noose you on what's inciting violence and what's not. You want to have movement of going against then in harnessing the younger people.

They will clamp down on you before you even can start with what's ISD and other laws.

The best way is for them to create more blunders that affect the citizen's lives and as one Ah Kong said not enough pain yet.

Same time, the opposition must win more seats and with people like Lim Tean to bring lively debate on issues that concern the liviehoods of the people will bring more awareness the usefulness of the Opposition.

The daft dunkies must understand that it is not necessary that the opposition must be the government immediate.

They must win just to form the government. They must vote in more opposition to bakance the power in Parliament and also have alternative voices to their well beings.

PAP as DAP when we are in malaysia is also on the opposition bench. They are a force to be reckoned with that the Alliance government feared them.

So, more opposition MPS MUST be elected to be a force in Parliament.

The dafts must remember this.

Anonymous said...

Si PAPigs

Hai Ren Jing

Xi Xue Gui

Kuai Dian Zhong Cancer

Kuai Dian Zhong Stroke

Kuai Dian Zhong Heart Attack

Kuai Dian Cang Fei

Yi Bei Zi Bu Neng Zou Lu

Anonymous said...

Si PAPigs

Zong zao shang ma dao wan shang

Si PAPigs

Mrt breaks down

Si PAPigs

Water Tax 30%

Si PAPigs

Carpark up 20%

Si PAPigs

ERP

Si PAPigs

COE

Si PAPigs

The list goes on ... Si PAPigs

Si PAPigs

24 hours a day Si PAPigs

365/7/24 Si PAPigs ...

Like clockwork

365/24/7 Si PAPigs

patriot said...


Like Sin to change?

VOTE FOR HALIMAH AS
SIN PRESIDENT.

VOTE FOR PAP IN THE
NEXT
GENERAL ELECTION.

YOU SHALL GET THE
CHANGE YOU LOOK FOR
FAST, THE FASTEST POSSIBLE.


patriot

Virgo49 said...


Patriot, that's be the fastest and way for Sinkieland or sinking-land's demise.

Bid for time. Just like the Japanese. See now Abe losing popularity and power.

Lower House elections washed out. Hawkish Defense Minister having periods daily instead of monthly also resigned.

Darkness cannot overcome brightness. And Evils cannot overcome the Good.

Come a day when the Dafts realized that been slumbering for too long, they wake up.

The Japanese had woke up. They do not want to have their children and their grandchildren to die for Abe's ambitions.

Likewise, hopefully not your children and grandchildren which you are so happy and proud of them.

Light your life when you see them

The Dragon Fly said...

virgo49 @ August 02, 2017 7:40 am:

Time has changed. Circumstances have also changed. People have also changed. The present situation is not the same as the past, during the early years of PAP founder members splitting from the PAP to form the Barisan Socialist. The present PAP will not split because there is not a single one of the inner cadres who has the balls, guts and wisdom to split from the PAP to form another party. None! Zilch!

The problem we are having is not the PAP nor the Opposition Parties. The biggest problem is the 70% Daft Brain-dead Sinkies! These people will only wake up when they know their grand children would suffer greatly - become prostitutes, washer-women, gigolos, ass-hole bandits, robbers, killers, etc.
At present, despite all the Opposition leaders doing their very best against all odds, the 70% daft voters still cannot feel or sense the need to do something urgently now. They have not suffered or not suffered enough yet.

SO, the ONLY WAY is for the 30% to do NOTHING! For Opposition Political Parties to cease to exist (but we need to grow and maintain a Movement to keep the spirit alive for future mobilization when the time is ripe.)

In the mean time, let PAP have full power, total power, absolute power without any obstacles. Absolute power will corrupt absolutely. They will become so bold that they will take everything for granted. They will think nobody can touch them. That is where / when they will start to make their greatest mistakes that will lead to their eventual downfall. The downfall will come swift and sudden. And they will never recover!

There will be an implosion where the PAP will split into two or three (most probably three) factions - the elites military, the elites non-military, and the workers represented by CUNT. Then, and only then, will there be equal fighting chance for a Three-Party Democratic Parliament to represent the people equally, fairly and justly.

Frankly, I cannot see this happening in the near future (next 15 years). The eventual downfall of PAP can only come when the foreigners-turned-new-citizens infiltrate into the grass-roots organisations, into the government key positions and into the PAP's inner circle. This will take at least 15 years, three general elections.

As long as LHL is still alive and he controls the government, PAP will continue to enjoy the 60-70% voters support.

Even I will vote for PAP, though I kpkb at them all the time. Why?

Because wise people vote wisely. Wise people don't vote stupidly. Wise people vote with our stomach and foods on the table. Wise people don't vote for "Idealism". Wise people don't vote with anger and hatred. Wise people vote with pragmatism! Wise people support the potential winner, not the potential loser.

So, if you think deeply, the 70% daft and brain-dead Sinkies actually are the Wise Sinkies!






Anonymous said...

There is another school of thought, East Malaysia are ripe for isis to infiltrated. If nazib allows prc to dominated West malaysia, many peoples of disadvantaged skills could be displaced and flood East malaysia. Religious harmony is difficult to contain, similar situation in middle east.

virgo49 said...



The Dragon Fly, I don't concur to your view that the 70% daft brain dead sinkies who voted for the PAP are the wise Sinkies.

You said I can kpkb but I voted for the PAP because wise people voted wisely.

If you are not for the PAP, then I think you should not vote for the PAP in conscience to to your beliefs. If you also think that the Opposition candidate in.your constituency is not to par to your standard, then I think you should also be neutral not to cast your vote for the PAP CANDIDATE.

Many, with your same thinking kpkb with the PAP in the end also gave their votes to them thinking that they are better and console themselves that they are wise and pragmatic are hypocrites to me.

You are sending a signal that you may be unhappy with them and yet you are for them. In a way you are still supporting them.

Maybe just like the 70% who had tasted some honey of a certain good standard of life that they are unwilling to taste bitterness again and wants status quo still to have some sweetness and willing to betray your principles and remain in a way still a slave to them.

I, for one am willingly to go back to the time when we went to bed without food. Then it will bring REAl change and a chance for Singapore to be real Mederka again.

No wonder hundred of thousands can throng the opposition rallies just to satisfy their souls hearing some others lamenting their disatisfactions and woes on their behalf and yet voted otherwise.

This to me is more traitous than the PAP supporters who supported their party and belief whole heartily. If this is what the wise 70% thinks, then it be PAP rule perpetually.

That the case you view that the anti 30% also give up the fight and switch to the other camp.

Hope this is just a saying in frustration. Frankly, the real reason for the dearth of non support of the Opposition is due mainly to the mistake of the Barisan Socialist abandonment of their seats in Parliament.

Many at that time are still staunch opposition supporters.

They became disillusioned when after supporting and voting the opposition in, they abandoned their hopes and trust on them.

This is the deadly mistake that till today many still had no faith in the opposition. Even many of our oldies opposition staunch supporters were disappointed.

But, we must change our mindset and give the opposition chances. It not we will never know and see what they can do.

Many felt that some opposition candidates are better than the papies. Because of the GRC obstacle that they are unable to win.

So, the opposition must unite and compromise to put their promising candidates to challenge the PAP in the Single Ward seats.

Don't squabble on the allocation or choice that these are rightfully yours. Get the promising best chance candidates in to consolidate from there to bigger wards later.

That is the best way to challenge the PAP.



patriot said...


Dear Elder Virgo49;

I believe that You do not quite get the Points that Dragon Fly and me are making in the Last Few Threads.

The 70% must NOW BE COMPLEMENTED TO 100%
FOR 100% DESTRUCTION TO
TAKE PLACE AND THEN
CHANGE
SHALL FOLLOW.

You willing to go back to the Days whence You went to sleep with empty stomach?
Then well and good, vote
PAP just like You did in the Beginning.

It is time for all of us to go blind like in the Past and be led by the Pipe Piper to the Abyss and for a NEW BEGINNING.

Look at the Characters of Your Leaders and You shall know the Wisdom of Chinese Saying 宁为玉碎,不为瓦全。

patriot

The Dragon Fly said...

Virgo49,

Allow me explain:

1. A group of us worked for the PAP in 1959 before they came into power. At that time, PAP was very poor. We even had to buy our own meals and use our own transport (our two legs) to each and every village, house to house, hut to hut, to win the hearts and minds of the villagers; to go from tree to tree along the road to paste posters; everything from printing letters to making flags, we did with our own hands. We did all these not because of Lee Kuan Yew but because of Lim Chin Siong. Lim Chin Siong was the genuine leader of the PAP at that time. When he broke off from PAP, all of us switched to the new party, the Socialist Front. Then he was arrested together with many of the other cadres and imprisoned without trial. Dr Lee Siew Choh took over in 1961. All the grass-roots organizations were started by us. PAP simply infiltrated and slowly got control of them. Then the Socialist Front merged with the Workers' Party in 1988. We went through the struggles. It was precisely because of our principles that we broke away from PAP and boycotted the elections which resulted in a weak opposition until today. We know what principles are all about.

2. In politics, principles cannot bring food to the table for all your children and all your supporters' families. Principles are good only for show, especially in real life. In politics, there is no permanent friends nor permanent enemies. So, sometimes one has to bend the principles in order to achieve the bigger goal, a greater good.

3. If mankind had stuck to principles, mankind would have been extinct long long ago. The purpose of the human brain is to be able to adapt to any environment, any circumstance, any situation. Mark Twain (copied by Einstein) said, "Insanity is to do the same thing over and over again, and expect a different result." If you abide by your principles, you are going to do the same thing over and over again, and you will get the same result over and over again. You will never get a different result.

4. Principles can also change with time and with new circumstance. Throughout history, beliefs changed, cultures, traditions, norms changed, laws changed and principles also changed. Everything is impermanent. The only thing that is permanent is change itself. This is how mankind evolved and how mankind will continue to evolve. Therefore, in everything we do, most important thing is not to be too rigid and inflexible. Our tactics and strategies must change according to prevailing circumstances in order to be successful. Nobody buy a stock that he knows will lose money. Everybody wants to buy the stock that will make money. This is the same in many other aspects of life, including politics.

5. The state of affairs of the opposition political parties today is actually very pathetic. There are too many small fry parties. Every secretary-general wants to be a Red Indian Chief. Nobody wants to be followers. All the opposition leaders cannot come together to be united as one party, or one single force to challenge the PAP. Some of them even cannot see eye to eye. So, their resources and manpower are spread very thin. Even WP, the biggest opposition party, is still very weak in terms of finance and manpower. Even if they have the financial and manpower backing, they still lacks the courage and the resolve to take over the government. Why? Can we blame them? NO! Who do we blame? We blame the 70% who voted PAP.

6. So, in politics, your opposing political party is actually not your enemy. Your real enemies are those who voted against you. the 70%. This is the group you must BREAK first. How to break them? You must let them suffer until they cannot even say the word "THE".

7. How to make them suffer? Very simple. Let the PAP make them suffer. You stand by and watch, but be ready. When they shout for help, you must be there. So, the answer is: You form a New Movement, ready to answer the call for "HELP".

Virgo49 said...

Hi The Dragon Fly,

Understood your comments.

Lim Chin Siong is equal to LKY in terms of rallying the people and his brilliant mind.

But, unfortunately, at that time, the English Educated hold an advantage over the Chinese educated.

LKY with his more merrymen of GKS, HSS and Rajàrtnam appeal more to the masses at that time.

There are some intellectuals comments that Singapore may be a different Nation if under LCS.

May be better or worse. The British flavoured LKY group more than LCS.

At that time, Chinese educated were disadvantaged and marglinised and were deemed to be pro-communists.

LKY knew the ethos and principles of the Chinese stream and that's why purposely send his children to have an early taste of Chinese education hoping that they be "Chun Zee" or Honourable Gentlemen.

See the Honourable Gentlemen turned out to be Pa Lei.

How much does principles value to the Dollar $$$$$ signs.??

Virgo49 said...


Heng Swee Kiat urged Singaporeans to have lifelong learning.

I have long life learnt experience when I had conversations with many life long ex Government and Statutory Board holding fairly high post before they retired.

Also, I was very surprised when my Bro in law who taught for forty odd years as a Senior Master told me that he has never in his life voted for the PAP before.

His wife, my sister also as a Snr staff nurse before retirement must be Papies supporters since they are all civil servants.

I don't kaypoh to ask their reasons for not supporting the PAP.

Now in just one conversation with an ex Nursing Sister of the horror stories of how the PAP Ministers and their families demanded their up most attention during their stays at the hospitals made me realized why they dont support the.PAP

patriot said...


Personal experiences that l have had are very surprising to say the least.

As l said before, l was a naive boy of about 13 yr old when l participated in demonstrations against merger with Malaysia and other political activities.
At that time in the Early 60s, most villages had grassroot
organizations formed by left leaning villagers. They were mainly communal in nature with members helping out each others to better livings by having well for water, house repairs of leaking roof and building pigsty etc. There were also free tuition and also social programmes such as excursion and singing lesson mostly of classical and folk genres.
Chinese Communist Songs were the Rage then.
Maoist paraphernalias and anything from PRC then were greatly appreciated.

There were contacts made amongst such organization spreaded island wide.

Then came Operation Cold Store.
Most younger and teenager members disposed whatever Communist materials they had and just stopped all activities.

The Older and More Senior Activists either escaped and disappeared not to be seen again. Others stayed on course and were hauled to stay at Government Bungalows.

My Elder Brother was a very active member then though he was just an ordinary member.

After Operation Cold Store, all those not affected by it ceased all activity. Some of us remain to be on the Opposite Side of the PAP.
BUT,
majority of the Members became PAP die hard supporters.
My Elder Brother is one of them and there are many others. Some of them are so zealous about the Regime, they will not hesitate to clash with anyone opposing the Regime.

To cut it short, may l say in my clan of about ten families comprising of about 60 members, OVER
55 members are PAP Supporters, especially those in Civil Service and State Organizations.
My wife even reminded me to vote PAP every election as she was a civil servant before her retirement.

I talked about politics and social matters most of the time. When l can, l participate at activities.
What l discovered are disappointing.
Alternative Parties are fragmented.
Activists are not able to relate much to each other.
Many active in social justice want to be lndian Chief.
The Worse is many fear that they will get into trouble in their works and living if they vote for Oppies.
Most lack the Gumption of the Hougang and Aljunied GRC Constituents.

Must also say lots of Sinkies are brainwashed by propaganda by the State Media as well as their Employers for those in Civil Service and State-owned organizations.

From now on l shall vote for PAP in every election, so long l am alive to do so.
No more need for my wife to remind me.


patriot

patriot said...


Personal experiences that l have had are very surprising to say the least.

As l said before, l was a naive boy of about 13 yr old when l participated in demonstrations against merger with Malaysia and other political activities.
At that time in the Early 60s, most villages had grassroot
organizations formed by left leaning villagers. They were mainly communal in nature with members helping out each others to better livings by having well for water, house repairs of leaking roof and building pigsty etc. There were also free tuition and also social programmes such as excursion and singing lesson mostly of classical and folk genres.
Chinese Communist Songs were the Rage then.
Maoist paraphernalias and anything from PRC then were greatly appreciated.

There were contacts made amongst such organization spreaded island wide.

Then came Operation Cold Store.
Most younger and teenager members disposed whatever Communist materials they had and just stopped all activities.

The Older and More Senior Activists either escaped and disappeared not to be seen again. Others stayed on course and were hauled to stay at Government Bungalows.

My Elder Brother was a very active member then though he was just an ordinary member.

After Operation Cold Store, all those not affected by it ceased all activity. Some of us remain to be on the Opposite Side of the PAP.
BUT,
majority of the Members became PAP die hard supporters.
My Elder Brother is one of them and there are many others. Some of them are so zealous about the Regime, they will not hesitate to clash with anyone opposing the Regime.

To cut it short, may l say in my clan of about ten families comprising of about 60 members, OVER
55 members are PAP Supporters, especially those in Civil Service and State Organizations.
My wife even reminded me to vote PAP every election as she was a civil servant before her retirement.

I talked about politics and social matters most of the time. When l can, l participate at activities.
What l discovered are disappointing.
Alternative Parties are fragmented.
Activists are not able to relate much to each other.
Many active in social justice want to be lndian Chief.
The Worse is many fear that they will get into trouble in their works and living if they vote for Oppies.
Most lack the Gumption of the Hougang and Aljunied GRC Constituents.

Must also say lots of Sinkies are brainwashed by propaganda by the State Media as well as their Employers for those in Civil Service and State-owned organizations.

From now on l shall vote for PAP in every election, so long l am alive to do so.
No more need for my wife to remind me.


patriot