7/27/2017

Malay is Muslim, Muslim not necessarily Malay

This controversy over what is a Malay and what is a Muslim has precipitated finally, thanks to the Constitution on the definition of what is a Malay or who can represent the Malay community as a minority President. According to Article 19B of the Singapore Constitution, "any person, whether of the Malay race or otherwise, who considers himself to be a member of the Malay community and who is generally accepted as a member of the Malay community by that community" is qualified to run as a candidate for the reserved EP for Malays.
 

The dichotomy between a Malay and a Muslim has never been in question or was a non issue before. It was not important enough or there was reason to want a clearer definition of a Malay and a Muslim. It is common knowledge that all or nearly all Malays are Muslim, with a few exceptions. For those Malays that are non Muslim, I am not sure if the Malay community still regards them as Malays or ex communicado.
 

On the other hand, all Muslims are not necessarily Malay. One can be a Muslim from any race or nationality. A Muslim can be European, Caucasian, Arabs, Pakstani, Indian, African or Chinese and living totally different ways of life. Ok the Singapore Constitution understood this and further clarified that a Malay is not only a Muslim but practises Malay way of life. The ‘otherwise’ in the Constitution is very extensive and inclusive to the extent that anyone not of the Malay race can be considered as a Malay if the Malay community, reads as the Committee set up by the govt, accepts the person as a Malay.
 

The big issue, what is this reserved EP all about? Isn’t it about the election of a Malay rather than anyone not of Malay ethnicity? A Malay is a Malay by ethnicity. Period. Though this is further complicated by mixed marriages, a person that has no Malay ethnicity in him despite him practising the Malay way of life and being a Muslim, is not a Malay by any means except by a round about way of interpreting what is written in the Constitution.
 

Coming to this big question of a Malay that is not a Muslim. Does the Malay community regard a Malay that is a non Muslim a Malay or no longer a Malay? What about the legal interpretation of a Malay? Is it by ethnicity or by religion? Legally, I would presume that Malay parents or mixed Malay parents that are not Muslims but chose to register their children as Malay at birth have the right to do so and no one can deny that they are Malays when registered. Things get more complicated should non Malay Muslim parents decide to register their children as Malay at birth. What would be the status of such persons legally? Malay or non Malay? Going forward, with the EP pie beckoning, would Pakistanis, Indians and Pinoys choose to register their children as Malay to take advantage of this loophole? Would the babas also do likewise?
 

How would this debate continue and would it lead to a better definition of what constitute a person being accepted as a Malay or would the definition in the Constitution be final and the end of the story? Is this mess necessary or can be avoided? There is no such problem before this minority EP thing.

40 comments:

Virgo49 said...

Right Mr RB, that's why still got time for TCB aka Dr Abdullah to run for President if he converts to be a Muslim now.

Don't bank on the Appeal Court. As good as gone.

In China, there are Millions of Chinese Muslims. But they still considered themselves Chinese and not Malay.

Only in Sinkieland, the Intellectuals pronounced Muslims as Malays.

Who dares to say they are wrong??

Anonymous said...

Is this mess necessary or can be avoided?
RB

Yes this mess is necessary, in fact very necessary, if the intention is to stop TCB from contesting the PE. Some even speculated that it is even designed to stop Hsien Yang from contesting PE! Hahahahaha.

And with the opposition not being ready to be govt and also knowing Sinkies, I think Hsien Loong should have no fear of any negative impact of this mess to PAP at the next election.

In other words, PAP will be able to handle this mess very well, and even if it is a big big mess.

That's why I think PAP did not want to avoid this mess, even though PAP being smart, knows this will create a mess.

Anonymous said...


A simple and straight forward race, MALAY,,,,,is now a very complicated science!

Why Singapore become like that!

Sad!

Anonymous said...

Hsien Yang is smart. That's why he did not become a opposition politician to fight PAP.

And Hsien Yang fought brother PAP Ah Loong using Facebook where he knows he could win in the court of public opinion. Again this shows he is smart, very smart.

Cheng Bock is stupid. That's why he die die want to contest PE. How can he fight and win against the govt? Stupid, right?

Want to fight PAP? Better be strong or stronger than PAP first before even thinking about fighting PAP.

Anonymous said...

Sad!
8:58 am

Sad for how long already? Not good for health, mental and physical, u know, if sad for too long.

Anonymous said...

It is a very sad that one changes one race because of greed & power.
It is saddest still that one becomes a dishonourable child because of greed & power.
What is becoming of us?
We have to remind ourself we are all impermanent.
3 score and 10 if we are lucky.

Anonymous said...

It is a very sad that one changes one race because of greed & power.
It is saddest still that one becomes a dishonourable child because of greed & power.
9:23 am

Yes it is very sad, even saddest, but to those concerned it is still the lesser of 2 evils?

Just like 70% voted PAP for being the lesser of 2 evils?

Anonymous said...

A Malay is a member of his community As long As the community accepts him as one. If the govt disagree, this candidate should to go court. The court may say it has not authority to determine. Few men and women committee is the final say.

At the end, one born at gelang serai is not Malay. One a former tailor is not qualified. One is certain 100% Malay. One candidate.

Abang chengbok did not consider pap s PE rule change was aiming at his chance. Who bother to further speak for Abang? Abang is not the right choice. He is a showman paying for his own acting.

Take your milk. There is no election for presidency.
Voters should be alerted, is there reserves to guard. After losing 4 billiions on first batch of sale, is there gain, is there loss in those big funds? Are these called reserves?

Why no outside the pap can be guard of reserves? This is more relevant.

Anonymous said...

Why no outside the pap can be guard of reserves?
9:37 am

Because no outside the pap can win election. That's why.

Anonymous said...

WP Ah Hia may end up paying the ultimate price for WP not being ready to be govt. That means being made bankrupt or go to jail.

Or maybe he got secret weapon to fight this lawsuit which Sinkies did not yet know? That's why can still smile smile some more when interviewed about the lawsuit against him and his other 2 fellow MPs.

virgo49 said...


Aiyo, if the person is clean and not guilty, they got nothing to fear.

Unlike seow lin who schemed and plot throughout their lives just to justify their evil deeds.

Wonder what happened to the AMK GM TC who charged with misappropriation of funds.

No sound no sight.

Swept under carpet.

Anonymous said...

Wonder what happened to the AMK GM TC who charged with misappropriation of funds.
No sound no sight.
Swept under carpet.
virgo49 10:22 am

Maybe that's the good thing for being the AMK GM TC?

Remember, it is also a good thing to be PM's siblings.

So u need to understand such things lah. It's like that one.

Anonymous said...


@929am

you are 1oo% correct

next GE, PAP 79.9% with H and A going back to PAP, lesser of 2 evils

cheers

Anonymous said...

10:11am

U are not using your common sense to type.
There was a clear case of misusing building funds $50millions for improper purpose. The main player got 2 year 4 months.

If these WP mp were found corrupted, they are not likely to get cpib and commercial crime involved (similar to the building fund case)?

The mp are given a good chance to write out why they had to do those pricing to carry out their duties. It is not possible for them not to do pricing for residents. It is also not possible for them to price too low for their TC contractor to bankrupt.

The question is compare with other grc prices. So far no AHTC residents made complaint about high pricing. AMK TC was complained to have extra high pricing and the Auditor General reported to CPIB. Case happened last year and no news now.

U think LTK get jail term? I think you might have hallucination. U keep saying LTK is not up to mark. But your argument is not up to date: such as the building funds misuse case was $50 millions cash crime. LTK case was not handled by commercial crime or CPIB. U are too shallow on seeing events happening in politics. Need to work harder or your brain will go to waste once your heart stops.

Anonymous said...

Do you think there are several "official" definitions of a "Malay"?

1. Definition used by Mendaki for giving out financial assistance
- If Halimah was poor, would she qualify for Mendaki's financial assistance?

2. Definition used in the General Elections for the Malay or minority race candidate in a GRC constituency.
- what race is written on Halimah's identity card?

3. Definition of a Malay in the Singapore Constitution

4. Definition of a Malay to qualify for the 2017 Presidential Elections (limited to Malays edition)

5. Any other definitions that we are not aware of?

One of the smallest country in the world.
So many definitions.
Very productive meh?

What will achieve far greater productivity gains?
Teaching our elderly workforce (above 65 years old) how to use productivity tools in the workplace OR
getting our elites to stop creating so much unnecessary work for all of us?

Anonymous said...

Mohammed Tan Cheng Bin Bock.

Sulaiman Lee Hsien Bin Yang

Potential Malay candidates for PE 2017?

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:09 am,

Please lah, u r the one who neber used brain. Let me tell u why lah.

First must build up a case against Ah Hia mah. It can just start as a civil suit, but from there can gather evidence and then proceed to criminal case.

So step by step mah, if it is not so clear cut, unlike the CHC $50 million case.

Remember the HDB has also already refer AHTC case to AGC, u know. And that's where things can get tua kee for Ah Hia. And AGC is the place to decide whether to prosecute or not, u know.

Hope u r clear now hoh.





Anonymous said...

John Salim bin Mohd went to court. The judge pronounced he is Malay as stated in his Birth cert and IC.

Mohd Khan went to court, the judge said he is Pakistani as stated in his birth certificate and IC.

Both went before the commission, commission said John Salim is not Malay but Mohd Khan is Malay.

How, who is right?

Anonymous said...

How, who is right?
11:43 am

First u must know what is the purpose of the commission lah.

If the purpose of the commission is to decide who is Malay to contest PE, then the commission will override the court on this matter, and this matter only.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous 1129am

You are correct.

Can be very very tua kee!

Don't play play!

This is Singapore!

Anyway.....all the best!


Anonymous said...

11:29am

I do not think there can be much to do because not police investigation or cpib investigation.

It is your illusion. Not reality. AGC needs investigation to charge. If crime, the 2 parties above are the right one.

Heard of hiring lawyers to defend cases? No wander you are so scared. No lawyer. But LTK and Sylvia are old timer. Sylvia was from police and turned lawyer. Your own worry can affect yourself no body else. Other public are well informed on what to do. Not scared lah. Remember one 17 year old kid? Was he scaced like u with so much imagination? Nothing can be done in your own imagination. Look outside: there is WP, SDP NSP. Each has many activists working on the ground. Go scared them lah.

Mathematical Equation said...


How would this debate continue and would it lead to a better definition of what constitute a person being accepted as a Malay or would the definition in the Constitution be final and the end of the story? Is this mess necessary or can be avoided? There is no such problem before this minority EP thing.
Chua Chin Leng aka redbean at 8:30 am


There won't be any debate. The Emperor has already decreed.

As a result of that decree the Comedians for Constitutional Review was formed, and presumably directed with specific terms of reference to engineer the changes to the Constitution in such a way that Dr Cheng Bock bin Tan cannot become a Malay in anyway and Harimau daughter-of Yakult, son-of Subramanian of Indian descent converted to Muslim, can be Malay because the Malay Communalists Community of 10 "very influential" people "accept" her as a "Malay".

No more arguments, is that clear?

Period.

Problem solved. QED.
(We are dealing with a Mathematician with Magical Power, you know?)

Anonymous said...

If crime, the 2 parties above are the right one.
1:00 pm

The 2 parties can always come later, even after the civil suit finished.

If need to take time, PAP willing to take the time, no hurry one. Enough time till 2020.

And the longer the time PAP take, the longer the 3 WP MPs will have to worry. It will even come to affect their work and service to residents and this may be what PAP is hoping for.

Lawyers to defend them? Hahahaha. This is Singapore, not western country, u know.

Hope u r clear now.

Anonymous said...

Look outside: there is WP, SDP NSP. Each has many activists working on the ground.
1:00 pm

Hahahahaha.

Many activists working on the ground? Sure, many.

Just look at the crowds at opposition election rallies, as compared to that of PAP.

But Ah Hia on talking terms with Ah Chee or not? Ah Hia believe in opposition unity or not?

So got use or not, where it really matters, u say lah?

Anonymous said...

Don't do too many 'chek ark' things. It will catch up with you.

Anonymous said...

10.11am anon, u can see ah Hia is visibly shaken on to interview. He probably never thought that lying Low also can get him into trouble. I think this time he is gone Liao,

Anonymous said...

1:56pm
Got use. Many use are very useful.
LTK has his own way to keep WP expanding. CSJ has his own way to keep SDP growing.

They have no talk is their own business. U cannot force your own opinion.

Most important i see is: both are growing. Not like JST: alone and died off. That is not good for the public. Good for himself.

I like to go WP rally. Last time I was put off. Too crowded. The whole HG field filled up. I gave up.

U cannot see the difference because u like the chicken rice and free bus trips, could be the reason.
Another 10 years for Pap. The foreigners will take over the workforce for more than 50%. Pap will have unemployment to deal with. Good news for WP and SDP. After 10 years, new batch of opposition will be like Pap or better.

Pap standards will be all army generals in cabinet. 70% foreigners in private sectors. The economy will collapse like mrt doing now. Every week has screw ups. Cannot last long. WP will have good shares after 10 years when ah long can be pai kar or worse. He was reported to have 95% chance to survive 15 years on cancer of some sort. Its near times up for him.

Anonymous said...

He was reported to have 95% chance to survive 15 years on cancer of some sort. Its near times up for him.
2:34 pm

He got cancer and chemo treatment in 1993, u know.

So how many years already? Still standing what.

Actually cancer may be cured one, just that many could not afford or find the best and right treatment.

Anonymous said...

They have no talk is their own business.
2:34 pm

That is your opinion and also shows u have no basic common sense about politics.

Vote them and no talk? How to be govt like that?

And with that, I will stop here.

Anonymous said...

WHO THE FUCK CARES?!?!?!

WHETHER MALAY OR ALIEN PRESIDENT, YOUR LIFE STILL SUCKS!!!

ONLY PAPPY CRONIES & RUNNING DOGS WILL ENJOY LIFE ... AND THEY DON'T CARE IF PRESIDENT IS MALAY OR CHINESE OR AFRICAN AS LONG IS OBEDIENT DOG.

Anonymous said...


hi 418pm

Yes...why take life so seriously.

Yes...who becomes President....you oso sama sama.

So....must 3M!

This is a you-die-your-business and money-talk society!

Hahaha

Anonymous said...

2:55pm
Cancer can come back after cure.

3:01pm
The present WP and SDP do not need to talk. Just expand the parties to get better activists. I will give them my vote.
This is politic common sense.

A political party has support will expand. U have common sense on this? Only Pap activists get some form of benefits. U can see many company directors help pap at night. This is politic common sense.

U do not vote for WP or SDP is also your own common sense. No one feel sorry about it.

Anonymous said...

Malaysian government very transparent about the number and breakdown of foreign workers in the country.

There are 1.78 million legal foreign workers in the country, said Datuk Seri Dr Ahmad Zahid Hamidi.

The Deputy Prime Minister said Indonesian workers accounted for the highest number of foreign workers in Malaysia at 728,870, followed by Nepal (405,898), Bangladeshi (221,089), Myanmar (127,705), India (114,455), Pakistan (59,281) and Philippines (56,153).

"We also have 29,039 Vietnamese, 15,399 Chinese, and 12,603 Thais working here," he said in a written reply to a question by Teresa Kok (DAP-Seputeh), who asked for a breakdown of the number of foreign workers in the country.


Source: http://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2017/07/27/zahid-1point78-million-foreign-workers-in-malaysia/

Anonymous said...

In August 2016, Non-Constituency Member of Parliament (NCMP) Leon Perera voiced the concerns of the people when he asked Minister for Manpower Lim Swee Say in Parliament to provide an account of the number of foreign Indian workers that have been permitted to enter Singapore as a result of the CECA.

Instead of providing a figure or an estimate, Mr Lim answered that “the ministry does not disclose data on foreign manpower with breakdown by nationality”.

What a contrast compared to the response from the Malaysian government Deputy Prime Minister !

Virgo49 said...

Anything dermential to the PAP will not be disclosed.

So much for a Transparent Government .

Anonymous said...

Government is clever. With all the noises about EP, it has decided to keep absolutely silence. This is call Boh Chap stance. Basically, it means I am the boss, I don't care what you think.

Virgo49 said...

Monday, they have FIVE Judges instead of Three to hear TCB's appeal.

What's happen if Three to Two for TCB??

Rematch or Recount? ?

Anonymous said...

Government is clever. How can the not be?

When the old man was alive, he will be around to deflect any noise made on issues and all will be quiet immediately.

Now, whenever they have difficult issues to deal with like EP, 38 Oxley road, MRT breakdown, spat with China, what do they do without the grandmaster to deflect the criticisms that refuses to go away? Bring out the AHTC issue of course to muddy the waters and hope this will confuse the daft Sinkies. And the MSM will broadcast loudly the ongoing sequels to distract the daft Sinkies. The timing this time was perfect, killing four birds with one stone.

AHTC will alwys be around to be used in desperate circumstances. You can bet on it!

patriot said...


Haha.....

As more citizens see through all the gerrymandering, tweaks to this and that, Law Makers go into hiding whence things go awry and plenty of propaganda and self-aggrandizations, the faster the death knell shall arrive.

All that needs to ve done now is to vote for PAP 100%.
Forget about all the Alternative Parties and
CHANGE SHALL COMES NATURALLY AND SOON.


patriot

Anonymous said...

An upcoming presidential poll in Singapore reserved for ethnic Malays will see the multiracial Lion City elect its first head of state from the indigenous minority community in five decades, but a divisive debate on whether the contenders are “Malay enough” is threatening to overshadow the actual vote.

Read the rest of the article at:

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2104516/singapore-how-malay-malay